[Houdini]

Crisis

We are in crisis since 2013.

 

[#07]

Just checking: Is Bruno still the problem..?

 

[Scholsey2004]

Just checking: Is Bruno still the problem..?

I know what you're saying, he's not 'the problem'. Unfortunately neither is he the solution any more. He used to be good enough to carry us. That ship has sailed.

 

[#07]

I know what you're saying, he's not 'the problem'. Unfortunately neither is he the solution any more. He used to be good enough to carry us. That ship has sailed.

Well if he ain't good enough to carry us we better get ready for the Championship, cos ain't no player in this team looking like they might rescue us.

 

[always_hoping]

It just highlights how scattergun the board is. They keep Hag and his system fine. Then sack him after a few months fine. And then decide that we need to completely change our philosophy and the way we play and bring in a completely different manager, during the busy winter period.

Awful planning. It’s set us back years this. Add to this the hiring and firing of Ashworth and our summer transfers.

And bring in a new manager who has apparently been told by the board that he won't be allowed any new signing in the January window. May as well have left Ten Hag or Rudd in charge for the rest of the season and then bring in Ruben in the summer with handful of his own players for the system he want to play.

 

[Will Singh]

Easy to blame the manager but these bunch of toothless cnuts deserve the blame too.

 

[croadyman]

Can someone start a relegation battle thread please?

No, I really mean it. Seriously. This is relegation form. Cannot see where our next win is going to come from.

Southampton at home, just glad we beat Everton and City or would only be a couple of points above the relegation zone.

 

[Salus Populi Suprema Lex]

Exactly half way through the season and we have 22 points from 19 games. We are genuinely in a relegation fight. It’s almost unbelievable, but here we are. On and off the pitch the club is a basket case. We are now losing every game, with schoolboy defending at one end of the pitch and no goals at the other. Surely there are three worse team than us in the division, but not many will finish below us. It’s a train wreck.

 

[croadyman]

I agree that we have got worse but I think its too soon to sack him altough if we lose to Liverpool and Saints I think he might be in trouble.

We can't possibly draw/lose to Southampton they literally are the worst side since Derby 07/08

 

[G3079]

The team just looks so incredibly dejected and disoriented. Like they can't understand what's happening and have no idea what they are supposed to be doing. When they have the ball they seem to have no idea what to do with it half of the time, and if the opponent has the ball they often go into panic mode and frequently resemble headless chicken.

I still refuse to believe that they'll actually be in a relegation battle at the end of the season, but a lower half finished looks all but locked-in with the current state of the team. I still don't think that the squad is actually this bad in terms of pure footballing skill, but their mental state seems to be frequently addled.

The way they look, and look at each other, strongly reminds me of Dortmund's 14/15 season, the last one under Klopp, where they were dead last after the first half of the season. I sure hope they can mount a recovery like Dortmund did back then, to make not at least not the total disaster that it looks set up to be right now.

 

[Borussin]

The team just looks so incredibly dejected and disoriented. Like they can't understand what's happening and have no idea what they are supposed to be doing. When they have the ball they seem to have no idea what to do with it half of the time, and if the opponent has the ball they often go into panic mode and frequently resemble headless chicken.

I still refuse to believe that they'll actually be in a relegation battle at the end of the season, but a lower half finished looks all but locked-in with the current state of the team. I still don't think that the squad is actually this bad in terms of pure footballing skill, but their mental state seems to be frequently addled.

The way they look, and look at each other, strongly reminds me of Dortmund's 14/15 season, the last one under Klopp, where they were dead last after the first half of the season. I sure hope they can mount a recovery like Dortmund did back then, to make not at least not the total disaster that it looks set up to be right now.

That’s a very weird comparison! Not sure what you where watching! That 1st half was indeed crazy but the team didn’t give up, there where a lot of anomalies, and a lot of good performances not rewarded with the goals that could actually win the games. There is genuinely nothing in this United team that is like that Dortmund season.

Amorin does though need time and support. Although I’d have thought a good coach could adapt a bit more when he knows that a lot of the players are not suited to his preferred style, especially at the back.

 

[Charlie Foley]

I’ve stopped looking at the table as a “if we win X we are Y points off Z…” No real hope for any sort of European finish. Maybe some magic can happen in the Europa league. I don’t think we’ll be relegated because there’s enough shit down there, but think we’ll be in a weird group around midtable where we win one and jump a few places, lose one and fall a few…until or unless Brighton/Spurs/Brentford stretch away from us

 

[Stig]

Better than expected. This is the worst we've been in 50 years.

True.
I hope we don't match our performance of 51 years ago.

 

[croadyman]

Might look at the form table. Be a laugh won't it?

We are 2nd bottom

 

[croadyman]

Not sure were exactly close to being in a relegation dogfight, considering how weak the three newly promoted sides are. However I do believe if there was one thing good to come out of being relegated, it’d be the it’d finally get rid of the Glazer rats possibly.

True, however there is still a chance that Ipswich and Leicester could pick up form, however will admit Southampton look doomed

 

[Stig]

Amorim has to take blame for sticking with defensive wingbacks and putting Eriksen and Casemiro in midfield. He needs to figure something out.

Has much as I dislike Jamie Carragher he did a great analysis job of putting the blame on Amorim for his selections.

He was also brutal in his analysis of Martinez.

 

[Stig]

There has not been a manager since Sir Alex that I didn't want to give more time to when we sacked them (aside from Jose, I was ambivalent either way because I thought he wanted to go).

I'd sack Amorim tonight. I think we probably avoid relegation if we sack him. If we keep him it's 50/50 at best. He's taken a group of players most people agreed weree underperforming under Ten Hag and got them performing considerably worse. Literally only sunk cost fallacy and PSR considerations keeping him in a job.

Yes the players are at fault too but this guy has been absolutely exposed by the switch to the premier league.

I really want to disagree with you; but...I can't.

 

[Stig]

I'm assuming this is satire

I thought the same.

 

[Ghirahim]

Easy to blame the manager but these bunch of toothless cnuts deserve the blame too.

Even Pep would struggle with this squad.

 

[Stig]

Keep Amorim
Let him build his team
Get rid:-
Rashford
Martinez
Casemiro
Eriksen
Hojlund
Zirkzee
Garnacho
Dalot
Lindelof
Shaw
Malacia
Mount
I actually think Antony does a fkin job better than these

You know that it's realistic, don't you.

 

[Scholsey2004]

Well if he ain't good enough to carry us we better get ready for the Championship, cos ain't no player in this team looking like they might rescue us.

Agree with the point you're making but United probably won't go down this season in reality. That said, if the steady downwards progression post Ferguson continues year after year then...

 

[Xeque_279]

1. Wish Amorim goes back to playing one winger at full back, but I'm sure he knows best.
2. Casemiro should never wear the United Kit again. Ship him out in January at all costs.
3. Sell Licha while he retains some value. Clearly being targeted for his aerial weakness, don't see how he overcomes that.
4. The technical level of this squad is so so poor. That should be the aim in January, increase the technical floor. We don't even need "World Class" players, just those technically capable, dip into the south american market.

 

[Steve 007]

Let’s look at this sensibly. We list two important players in the previous game to suspension. Ugarte and Bruno. This made it difficult as we lack strength in depth. Newcastle are probably (behind Liverpool) the form team in the country. They are young, energetic, big and powerful. Our weakened midfield got completely blown away. Starting Casimeiro and Erickson together is a massive mistake, Amorim will learn from that but it’s clear as well as a striker we need top quality in midfield.

 

[kouroux]

There were several instances in the 1st half where no one was daring to bring the ball down such the confidence was low. They either booted it or headed it.

 

[RaddyRed]

Even Pep would struggle with this squad.

He is struggling with his current Premier League winning squad.

 

[DevilRed]

The team just looks so incredibly dejected and disoriented. Like they can't understand what's happening and have no idea what they are supposed to be doing. When they have the ball they seem to have no idea what to do with it half of the time, and if the opponent has the ball they often go into panic mode and frequently resemble headless chicken.

I still refuse to believe that they'll actually be in a relegation battle at the end of the season, but a lower half finished looks all but locked-in with the current state of the team. I still don't think that the squad is actually this bad in terms of pure footballing skill, but their mental state seems to be frequently addled.

The way they look, and look at each other, strongly reminds me of Dortmund's 14/15 season, the last one under Klopp, where they were dead last after the first half of the season. I sure hope they can mount a recovery like Dortmund did back then, to make not at least not the total disaster that it looks set up to be right now.

This.

 

[fergiewherearethou]

Just checking: Is Bruno still the problem..?

Obviously not, the narrative that the rebuild starts by selling Bruno and Rashford is just wishful thinking. It has nothing to do with those 2. You can look at our recent 3 defeats to understand that we have scored a grand total of 0 goals and got 0 points.
My opinion is that, if a manager is good enough(don't know if he is born yet) to rebuild us, he is good enough to make the most of any player given to him and like it or not Bruno and Rashford are 2 of the best we've got.

 

[CunningLinguist]

It must be an absolutely brilliant feeling for the opposition to see that they've got us next. Get a big scalp, and look good while doing it. Don't even have to sit back and counter against us anymore.

 

[Catalandevil]

Despite the loss, I see encouraging signs in the team that give me some hope for the future.

When the players have belief—whether in themselves, the team, or the system—we create chances and press effectively. However, these positive spells, even if they last for 30 minutes, usually only happen after we concede one or two goals. And when they do happen, we rarely capitalize on our opportunities. When the players have belief, even the physical aspects of the game, where we often fall short, seem less significant.

Yesterday, Mainoo, Maguire, and Højlund put in performances they can build on. Mainoo was particularly effective in connecting the play, while Højlund impressed with his runs. Whether this improvement was influenced by Bruno's absence remains to be seen.

Martinez was involved in both goals, and this is becoming a recurring issue. Yoro should start ahead of him. Casemiro didn’t have his best game either, but you can still see glimpses of the world-class player he is. His movements and positioning remain sharp, but he seems to lack the physical edge now. Zirkzee and Garnacho were the poorest performers on the pitch. Joshua needs to calm down—he often tries to speed up play with one-touch passes but frequently misplaces them, leaving the team exposed. As for Garnacho, I'm genuinely concerned. He looks like a shadow of his former self. I hope he gets a chance as a wingback and embraces the role because, if not, he might be one to consider cashing in on during the summer, alongside Rashford.

Realistically, we might lose the next two games. After that, though, we have a more favorable run of fixtures and hopefully more training time for Amorim. That’s when the true Amorim era should begin, and we can expect to see real progress in both style of play and results.

 

[Crimson King]

The team just looks so incredibly dejected and disoriented. Like they can't understand what's happening and have no idea what they are supposed to be doing. When they have the ball they seem to have no idea what to do with it half of the time, and if the opponent has the ball they often go into panic mode and frequently resemble headless chicken.

I still refuse to believe that they'll actually be in a relegation battle at the end of the season, but a lower half finished looks all but locked-in with the current state of the team. I still don't think that the squad is actually this bad in terms of pure footballing skill, but their mental state seems to be frequently addled.

The way they look, and look at each other, strongly reminds me of Dortmund's 14/15 season, the last one under Klopp, where they were dead last after the first half of the season. I sure hope they can mount a recovery like Dortmund did back then, to make not at least not the total disaster that it looks set up to be right now.

The annoying thing is that I think they were starting to click at one point. It was almost up until the exact moment when Onana dived out of the way of that Gibbs-White shot against Forest... although even then, we played ok for the rest of that match. Since then the performances have gotten worse and worse, and it feels like it's very much mental now and to do with confidence, more than anything else.

Maybe I'm clutching and the wheels would have come off anyway, but it's hard not to feel like if we'd won that game against Forest (and our general performance deserved it, imo) then that bit of momentum might have carried us through a bit longer.

Some absolutely brutal moments in those games as well though. The mistakes against Forest aside, we've conceded 2 Olimpicos, a penalty when it was only 0-1 against Bournemouth, Fernandes red card right at the start of that 2nd half against Wolves when it was still 0-0...

When it rains, it pours.

 

[Craig Ward]

Just checking: Is Bruno still the problem..?

He's a major part of our issue's yes

 

[FireballXL5]

Just checking: Is Bruno still the problem..?

We have 11 problems. Every fecking game.

 

[Martial]

He's a major part of our issue's yes

Weird we just dropped the worst half of football in 30 years of watching Manchester United as soon as we played without him then.

 

[fergiewherearethou]

The annoying thing is that I think they were starting to click at one point. It was almost up until the exact moment when Onana dived out of the way of that Gibbs-White shot against Forest... although even then, we played ok for the rest of that match. Since then the performances have gotten worse and worse, and it feels like it's very much mental now and to do with confidence, more than anything else.

Maybe I'm clutching and the wheels would have come off anyway, but it's hard not to feel like if we'd won that game against Forest (and our general performance deserved it, imo) then that bit of momentum might have carried us through a bit longer.

Some absolutely brutal moments in those games as well though. The mistakes against Forest aside, we've conceded 2 Olimpicos, a penalty when it was only 0-1 against Bournemouth, Fernandes red card right at the start of that 2nd half against Wolves when it was still 0-0...

When it rains, it pours.

The players are mentally destroyed that is the reality.
There is no belief in any of them anymore, they've lost confidence that they can do anything good. Combine that with some lack of actual footballing skills and you have the recipe for disaster.

 

[Craig Ward]

Well so far, the Amorin era is off to a shocker

The positives are getting harder to see, but we were going absolutely nowhere under ETH so it's all the same really.

Amorin, like ETH, like Ole, Like Jose, Like Ralf just cannot get a tune out of this squad. We are rotten.

It's cringeworthy watching us - we literally are so shit to watch. Just full of comical decisions, sunday league levels of control and no intensity whatsoever.

Casemiro and Eriksen only passed the ball backwards, mostly one touch. Casemiro was so rubbish - just off the pace, clueless with the ball, not really involved in anything bar losing the ball or slowing our play down. Eriksen may as well have not been on the pitch. Maz and Dalot offer zero going forward - both look scared to have the ball high up the pitch and Dalot in particular gets in good positions high up the pitch but he looks terrified of the ball and passes backwards EVERY single time.

Hojlund is constantly moving - looking for through balls, looking to get in the channels - we very rarely even consider a forward ball. Amad looks lost because he isn't getting on the ball enough. It's just all so slow and disjointed and predictable. Martinez is a great passer of the ball - yet he seems hellbent on holding onto it for an age lately before giving a simple 5 yard pass, 90% of which our midfielders give it back to a defender because they don't have the confidence to turn and carry it or look forward.

We concede and give chances away because we are so slow and defensive. We gift chances away like no other team. Absolutely battered at home - again. And it's to be expected which is the worst thing

 

[Craig Ward]

Weird we just dropped the worst half of football in 30 years of watching Manchester United as soon as we played without him then.

He'd have made zero difference whatsoever. He's been part of this team who have been humbled and destroyed by many a team. We'd have lost still. We aren't as good as Newcastle. We aren't capable of matching they're levels of intensity, we aren't capable of beating they're press. Bruno would have been a passenger, like he has been for a long time now

Stop creating an agenda that Bruno is our saviour for god sake. Pathetic

 

[mitchmouse]

another appalling performance. Can't possibly pic as MoM. dreadful pretty much all round. Hojilund battled and Mainoo made it look a little less worse

 

[dinostar77]

And bring in a new manager who has apparently been told by the board that he won't be allowed any new signing in the January window. May as well have left Ten Hag or Rudd in charge for the rest of the season and then bring in Ruben in the summer with handful of his own players for the system he want to play.

This I agree with. He wanted to come in the summer. But he regrets that decision now. He needs a full pre season and a few signings.

 

[mitchmouse]

Has much as I dislike Jamie Carragher he did a great analysis job of putting the blame on Amorim for his selections.

He was also brutal in his analysis of Martinez.

agree with you... but I felt sick agreeing with him!

 

[big_jeffstar]

Every game feels exactly the same, we hang on to the ball far too long and then make a stupid pass into a player who’s already being marked, when it does go out to the wings, the rest of the team stand there watching as three players surround our winger and expect him to beat them all, the midfield pass it backwards whenever they get in a good position, allowing the opposition to get back into shape… how about trying something different? Why aren’t we trying to sucker them in and play on the counter a bit?
We aren’t better than any of the teams we’re playing, but for some reason we seem intent on pretending we are