[RazorOz]

We were doomed the moment we lined up a 3-5-2 vs City. Poor thinking from the coaching staff

We were always going to do this after last week. It would have been the same XI as last week if Varane and Cavani weren't injured. It's another thing is we're incredibly predictable, listening to Pep after the game he knew exactly how we would set up (who didn't?) and how to exploit it, the coaching team are incredibly monotone, we strike upon an apparent winning formula and think we have to field it every time until it fails, this has happened several times through his tenure now.

 

[StuCol]

That was a cowardly performance today. I’ve never screamed ‘sprint’ at a TV more often in my life. Highly payed Manchester United players just ambling back when they lose the ball, instead of sprinting back. Jogging out to close down a potential shot or cross , instead of sprinting.
The number of times we got caught dawdling on the ball shows that we don’t have a plan. City moved the ball quickly because they had a plan and a style. We were playing on the hoof, and we don’t have players intelligent enough to make good decisions quickly.
It’s been common theme this season that we are out worked, out thought and out fought. I can take defeat on the chin if I can see 100% effort and commitment from the players though the game. But I haven’t even seen that in our victories this season.

 

[Vidyoyo]

A bit of a difference between a show to talk about football and an actual football club that’s supposed to be the biggest club in the world.

Fair point

 

[RazorOz]

After the game today Solskjaer said we need to take it more to the opposition and dominate more. The problem is it's completely at odds with the team he put out. Did he seriously think a back 5 with Fred and McTominay in front would take the game to the opposition and dominate? It's just empty platitudes with no meaning.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

We were always going to do this after last week. It would have been the same XI as last week if Varane and Cavani weren't injured. It's another thing is we're incredibly predictable, listening to Pep after the game he knew exactly how we would set up (who didn't?) and how to exploit it, the coaching team are incredibly monotone, we strike upon an apparent winning formula and think we have to field it every time until it fails, this has happened several times through his tenure now.

Who would have thought if you worked on how to exploit the opposition in training it might work. What the hell to our coaches do? I would love to know.

 

[Carolina Red]

Jogging out to close down a potential shot or cross , instead of sprinting.

Yep. Bruno’s lackluster effort to stop the cross coming in on the own goal leaps to mind

 

[DomesticTadpole]

After the game today Solskjaer said we need to take it more to the opposition and dominate more. The problem is it's completely at odds with the team he put out. Did he seriously think a back 5 with Fred and McTominay in front would take the game to the opposition and dominate? It's just empty platitudes with no meaning.

He just says one ridiculous thing after another. The forwards yet again were isolated. They ran us ragged.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Another dismal showing.

This club is so backwards in way too many ways.

 

[Sviken]

After the game today Solskjaer said we need to take it more to the opposition and dominate more. The problem is it's completely at odds with the team he put out. Did he seriously think a back 5 with Fred and McTominay in front would take the game to the opposition and dominate? It's just empty platitudes with no meaning.

Ole is either trolling or has zero clue as to what needs to be done. If you want to take it more to the opposition, you don't start a match with the intention of losing. 5 at the back plus 2 holding midfielders is a recipe of a disaster that not even a relegation candidate would go with. Bruno, of course, for some reason plays as a second striker instead of the link between midfield and attack. Our forwards during the match were so isoalted from each other, Ronaldo actually had to drop deep in midfield to take the ball. I couldn't believe what I was seeing. When our players got the ball, they were so isolated from each other with so little movement, most of them couldn't find passing options and just passed it back towards the defenders. This is all down to incredibly poor coaching that could easily be fixed with the right manager.

Look at how Pep's City played - they formed passing triangles left and right, options to pass everywhere, they could bypass any of our players. Pressing for them was extremely easy because, before even any of our players got the ball, they were already surrounded and due to the reasons I've mentioned, they had no-one to pass to. So it's very easy to take the ball away from us. I mean Pep really schooled Ole. They're both on entirely different planets when it comes to managers. As another poster said, Ole has no right to be at this level. This kind of football and coaching ability wouldn't be acceptable even in the Championship anymore.

 

[VanDeBank]

Ole is either trolling or has zero clue as to what needs to be done.

You're undecided?

 

[Sviken]

You're undecided?

Maybe both?

 

[RazorOz]

Ole is either trolling or has zero clue as to what needs to be done. If you want to take it more to the opposition, you don't start a match with the intention of losing. 5 at the back plus 2 holding midfielders is a recipe of a disaster that not even a relegation candidate would go with. Bruno, of course, for some reason plays as a second striker instead of the link between midfield and attack. Our forwards during the match were so isoalted from each other, Ronaldo actually had to drop deep in midfield to take the ball. I couldn't believe what I was seeing. When our players got the ball, they were so isolated from each other with so little movement, most of them couldn't find passing options and just passed it back towards the defenders. This is all down to incredibly poor coaching that could easily be fixed with the right manager.

Look at how Pep's City played - they formed passing triangles left and right, options to pass everywhere, they could bypass any of our players. Pressing for them was extremely easy because, before even any of our players got the ball, they were already surrounded and due to the reasons I've mentioned, they had no-one to pass to. So it's very easy to take the ball away from us. I mean Pep really schooled Ole. They're both on entirely different planets when it comes to managers. As another poster said, Ole has no right to be at this level. This kind of football and coaching ability wouldn't be acceptable even in the Championship anymore.

Think it's just a case of him saying things he thinks the fans want to hear. He knows getting outplayed like today is not acceptable, so makes out like he wanted to take the game more to them and dominate more, but it doesn't have any meaning in practical terms. This is why you hear about passion and being up for it a lot too. It's nothing to do with his actual approach, it's just him hitting the right notes in press for the fans.

What is scary when you watch games like this is you realise how little structure and substance there is to Utd's tactics compared to the opposition. There is no structure either with or without the ball, this can only be blamed on the manager, and like someone said you'd love to know what they're doing all week in training going into this game. This season I'm yet to see that the tactics amount to anything more than just putting 11 individuals out there and hoping they do something, there is absolutely nothing in our patterns of play to suggest otherwise. This is why you see players pressing like headless chickens individually, rather than as a unit, a basic lack of defensive cohesion or shape, virtually no link up play between the front players, and when our back is up against the wall it's often just throw as many attacking players on the pitch and hope they do something as evidenced in the Champions League games.

 

[marcus agrippa]

After the game today Solskjaer said we need to take it more to the opposition and dominate more. The problem is it's completely at odds with the team he put out. Did he seriously think a back 5 with Fred and McTominay in front would take the game to the opposition and dominate? It's just empty platitudes with no meaning.

Guys, Solskjaer says a lot of things, haven't y'all learnt by now?

But just saying something and coming up with a coherent, knowledgeable plan to execute are two different things.

Half the time I don't even think he realizes when, or even if, things are going wrong on the field, much less how to correct them if he does. That's why he's on his ass throughout the match. He's like a cargo-cult manager. Just look at how he tries to emulate SAF.

But at this point, it's useless railing against him. He can't sack himself. This is on those in charge.

 

[USREDEVIL]

Fine fecking margins mates

 

[Banana Republic]

4 points out of the last 18 in the PL.

Repeat...4 points out of the last 18 !
That's close to relegation form.

I think we'll lose away to Watford and then it's away to Chelsea at Stamford Bridge.
Mid table beckons.
Meanwhile our CL hopes hang in the balance.


.

 

[Fitchett]

We should have pressed Conte-Alt-Delete.

Or Conte-Ole-Delete.

 

[Carolina Red]

He's like a cargo-cult manager.

Solid cargo cult reference. John Frum, he come.

 

[Tibs]

We were fecking shite - only DDG comes out with merit.

Ole really should be sacked Monday

 

[Mike Oxard]

He wouldn't have done much better at any point in his career. We simply didn't have any of the ball.

Fair point.

 

[Xaviboy]

Anyone see MOTD showing the comparrison of each teams pressing and willing to win ball back out of possession. Shocking. Blamed the manager. Danny Murphy said if utd want to compete with City, Liverpool and Chelsea then need to change manager. Only people don't see it is the owners.

Disgrace.

 

[Lee565]

When you play such a great possession based side like city under pep you would think flood the midfield but instead we basically had fred and mctominay against man city's midfield trio along with the false 9 dropping deep

 

[Rajma]

Hopefully my boos did not count for nothing. This club is finished until Glazers leave the club.

 

[Hoof the ball]

 

[Camilo]

Useless. Coward of a manager. "oh no, my coaching is too shit to play 4 at the back, let's play 5 because we'll concede less goals and I've no other ideas".

 

[sparx99]

The problem is, if he sprints in, Cancelo can just skip wide and cross in from there.

He really was caught between two risks.

Deal with the imminent danger

 

[peridigm]

Ole sure does hold a grudge.

 

[oz insomniac]

Stayed up late here in Sydney to watch the game. How Ole set the line up against a high pressing, fast passing team was a recipe for defeat.

5 at the back, a mismatched midfield duo, and 3 attacker who basically don’t track back. Again, McTominlay is slow, ponderous, poor passer and easily tackled - which seem strange given his size. Fred is all activity and little output, perfect in a system like City with better players in a 3 , at least his energy would be useful.

Unfortunately , it’s obvious that Ole is a poor tactical manager, and the Man Utd DNA doesnt cover his inabilities. Woodward and the Glaser s are sitting back, possibly thinking we only just extended him and we will look even more foolish if we sack him. Then we look at Norwich, who win their first game and understand the manager doesn’t cut it, gone. Then e en Spurs understand that the manager actually is responsible for performance, gone.

The lack of action seems like a Sunday league where there’s only one person who actually wants to coach so he stays, wake up and smell the roses , this is not tenable. The glazers wouldn’t stand back if the Buccaneers made them look bad, then again how much interest do they really have when they leave Woodward in charge.

we are fans who invest in the team, how must the likes of Law, Charlton and others feel. ( then remembers the current reaction of Keane and Evra)

 

[RazorOz]

Anyone see MOTD showing the comparrison of each teams pressing and willing to win ball back out of possession. Shocking. Blamed the manager. Danny Murphy said if utd want to compete with City, Liverpool and Chelsea then need to change manager. Only people don't see it is the owners.

Disgrace.

Our owners don't even watch the games to care realistically, and those on the board who make the decisions don't have a clue about football. You can tell that by how off guard they were clearly caught by the Liverpool result, when anyone with a clue who had been watching our games this season knew a pasting was coming sooner or later the way we were playing.

 

[kerryman]

We were fecking shite - only DDG comes out with merit.

Ole really should be sacked Monday

We are on track for 59 points based on our points per game so far this season...anyone who thinks we are close to challenging for a title under Ole is delusional. I think getting 4th is going to be a challenge tbh.

 

[cyril C]

We were always going to do this after last week. It would have been the same XI as last week if Varane and Cavani weren't injured. It's another thing is we're incredibly predictable, listening to Pep after the game he knew exactly how we would set up (who didn't?) and how to exploit it, the coaching team are incredibly monotone, we strike upon an apparent winning formula and think we have to field it every time until it fails, this has happened several times through his tenure now.

There is 1 thing that I don't get it. We have played low defence before, under Mourinho, and even under Ole previously? Why can't we just park the bus for counter-attack as we did against top teams as before? I understand Ole has new instruction to the team regarding tactics this season, but we are clearly NOT a high pressing team. Apart from CR, Greenwood, Fred, McTom, Bruno, they are NOT discipline enough to high press. It may take 1-2 seasons to adapt even if we have the right players and proper training, so why didn't we fall back to old school tactics just for a few key games this season?

 

[Ferguson’s Hairdryer]

Posted this last week in the post match vs Spurs forum are some people thought the new formation was going to change things and was a new down .

I’ll say it now. The 532 today, with no width and only Fernandes supplying the two CF will end up getting punished Vs teams that are not as crap as spurs. It we had the ability to pass and play through the middle then yes, but we don’t. Same problem will emerge 1) can’t break down teams, 2) rely on moments of brilliance which will be less 3) rely on defensive mistakes

Just remember this when we start beating lesser teams and I still say Ole is the problem and a few wins are like putting plaster over a broken bone

 

[sunama]

Look at how Pep's City played - they formed passing triangles left and right, options to pass everywhere, they could bypass any of our players. Pressing for them was extremely easy because, before even any of our players got the ball, they were already surrounded and due to the reasons I've mentioned, they had no-one to pass to. So it's very easy to take the ball away from us. I mean Pep really schooled Ole. They're both on entirely different planets when it comes to managers. As another poster said, Ole has no right to be at this level. This kind of football and coaching ability wouldn't be acceptable even in the Championship anymore.

I'm not sure if Ole would understand any of what you wrote.
I genuinely think that he doesn't know much about tactics. Whenever he is asked about our tactics, he avoids answering the question. I think that it is Carrick and McKenna who come up with the tactics, while Ole is just the guy who does.....well, I'm not quite sure what he actually does.

 

[Cantonagotmehere]

Scoreline flattered us.

yes, yes. so sad.

 

[Cantonagotmehere]

I don't usually post in the football forum but here it is. What the absolute feck was that?

Set up to what look like counter attack and then proceeded to play slow short passes sideways under intense pressing from City in our own box. Fernandes at one point shouting at the defense to stop dropping further back towards goal whenever City had the ball which tells you all you need to know about how we were set up.

The amount of times we played with zero urgency right on the edge of our own box was astounding. Made the players panic and ultimately led to numerous feck ups. City had no problem breaking us down and at one point they could take the ball just outside our box, pass it back to their own half, and still get through us again because we were all statues that slowly shuffled in reverse towards De Gea.

De Bruyne actually slipped, full on, during a City counter, and managed to get back up, look around him, and find a pass with ease because none of our team were actually pressing their players.

Nothing changed when it was clear we needed to adapt our play, either, other than just becoming a brick wall. City would've scored more if we weren't stacking the back (and because City's chief point man is a bullying useless twat like Jesus), which would be fine if we weren't already down 2-0 at that point. Rather than trying to chase a win it looked like we set up not to get embarrassed like the Liverpool game again.

I'm sorry, but until someone who isn't tactically inept comes in we're going to be fecked. 4 points out of 18 available? fecking hell. That's it.

This is it. Sadly, super well put.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

After the game today Solskjaer said we need to take it more to the opposition and dominate more. The problem is it's completely at odds with the team he put out. Did he seriously think a back 5 with Fred and McTominay in front would take the game to the opposition and dominate? It's just empty platitudes with no meaning.

No he didn’t think it but he’s been praised for spouting empty platitudes throughout his tenure so he continues to play to the crowd.

Him being a crap coach is one thing, the fact he continues to use his conferences to downright lie is truly insulting. He’ll tell you he knows how we need to play, he knows the United way, ‘front foot - front foot’ etc. then we all watch the games & see none of what he claims he’s instilling as they are ‘club traditions’.

Ole the players, legend but had he not played for the club & he’d come in chatting this crap there’d be riots. His arrogance is otherworldly.

 

[Theonas]

I think we’re perpetuating a rather pointless culture war here. The abstract attributes you rightly deride have a measurable, practical equivalent: it’s called hard work.

Whether City’s players are “warriors” or not, the simple fact is that their work rate massively outstrips United’s. It’s not just about technical and tactical elements.

Ole got pelters on here early in his reign for pointing out that it was unacceptable for United’s players constantly to be outrun by their opponents. The fact that he’s been shit at his job and hasn’t managed to sort that out doesn’t mean that he wasn’t right.

I actually think the two are related. It is easier to run more and fight harder when there is a clear plan and target in mind. People work harder when they understand the collective ambition. The way the best teams press is synchronized. It is clearly reliant on every other individual making a specific move. The same goes for their passing patterns. There is a clear process with a target that has proven to work time and time again. This is in complete contrast with asking people to just run more for the sake of running. I am not saying that it is this extreme between us and other top sides but we most definitely are on the lower end of the spectrum when it comes to a coherent systemic pressing and passing strategy. It simply is way too far fetched to just conclude these players do not care when we have evidence that they are capable of performing just as good as their counter parts.

 

[sparx99]

I actually think the two are related. It is easier to run more and fight harder when there is a clear plan and target in mind. People work harder when they understand the collective ambition. The way the best teams press is synchronized. It is clearly reliant on every other individual making a specific move. The same goes for their passing patterns. There is a clear process with a target that has proven to work time and time again. This is in complete contrast with asking people to just run more for the sake of running. I am not saying that it is this extreme between us and other top sides but we most definitely are on the lower end of the spectrum when it comes to a coherent systemic pressing and passing strategy. It simply is way too far fetched to just conclude these players do not care when we have evidence that they are capable of performing just as good as their counter parts.

This is so true. I don’t think the players have downed tools. I do think they’ve stopped believing in the tactics though. Or to put it another way they’ve lost faith in the manager. That is the extra 5 yards, the extra effort and the belief in the plan that is so evident. The players know the tactics aren’t right and yet they are really professional and keep ‘trying’ but their heart isn’t in it.

 

[Irwin99]

Just saw Pep's post-match interview.

I mean, he's literally describing in tactical detail precisely how he beat Ole's setup today. You don't need to keep your cards close to your chest in interviews when you're confident in your ability to see the tactical details.

Pep - "They're a transition team, and we thought we'd have to put the ball in the fridge (basically give us none of it), so, a lot of passes, a lot of passes, a lot of passes, and at the last moment arrive there." (create definite chances).

Interviewer - "How good was the movement of the players today?"

Pep - "Move the ball......it looks like the players are moving, but it's the ball. The people believe "how they move", but no. It's the ball that moves. Everybody has to be in their position. When you (the players) move much, it's no good. The ball comes where we are; we don't go to pick up the ball. Completely different."

Interviewer - "How much was it pre-determined? Switching the balls?"

Pep - "Because of the shape. They play 5-3-2. When we are in the 2nd part of the buildup, so the United three cannot control the width of the pitch, and the spaces were there."

etc, etc. He's basically giving him a tactical breakdown post-match.

Thanks for posting; even as a United fan i'm glad I watched that. It's just mind blowing the debate between those that think passion is the number one determining factor in winning versus those who set up their teams with clear instructions and a plan.

Pep basically explaining-quite joyfully and with justifiable smugness-how we play one way (and always have under Ole) and that although it can be difficult to contain, when you stop the fast transitions there's just feck all else to worry about from this team.

 

[Cantonagotmehere]

Just back from the game.

My takeaway from the game. We are now cheering winning throw-ins and one of their players slipping.

It's a numbing experience.

Sorry mate.

 

[Lash]

Just saw Pep's post-match interview.

I mean, he's literally describing in tactical detail precisely how he beat Ole's setup today. You don't need to keep your cards close to your chest in interviews when you're confident in your ability to see the tactical details.

Pep - "They're a transition team, and we thought we'd have to put the ball in the fridge (basically give us none of it), so, a lot of passes, a lot of passes, a lot of passes, and at the last moment arrive there." (create definite chances).

Interviewer - "How good was the movement of the players today?"

Pep - "Move the ball......it looks like the players are moving, but it's the ball. The people believe "how they move", but no. It's the ball that moves. Everybody has to be in their position. When you (the players) move much, it's no good. The ball comes where we are; we don't go to pick up the ball. Completely different."

Interviewer - "How much was it pre-determined? Switching the balls?"

Pep - "Because of the shape. They play 5-3-2. When we are in the 2nd part of the buildup, so the United three cannot control the width of the pitch, and the spaces were there."

etc, etc. He's basically giving him a tactical breakdown post-match.

I mean, I'd take this with a pinch of salt. Ole has also got the better of him before and I wouldn't proclaim Ole is a better tactician. Peps the writer of his own press releases, so he's obviously very talented, but when it doesn't go to plan, this babbling is just as insufferable. The two goals werent exactly masterclasses in tactical play.