[12OunceEpilogue]

I was in the fair city of Leeds yesterday for a music festival and had a wonderful time with some great friends and family. we went into a boozer where the match was on, and by the time we got in it was already 0-1. We watched about ten minutes of another clueless performance, before coming to the conclusion we didn't need to waste anymore of our cool weekend on this fecking rubbish. We drank up, went elsewhere and had absolutely no regrets and a much better Saturday from then on. That might make me a bad fan or whatever but I'm long past caring.

We are going nowhere under this manager. We need to thank him for picking up the pieces from Jose, move him on and get a world class manager and coaching team into the club, as soon as possible.

 

[Gary_Walsh_Nou_Camp_Hell]

Did any of our players do post match interviews?

All I can find is Ole, Pep and Foden...

 

[RedBanker]

If you swap the squads would the outcome have been any different?

 

[HBFSTR00]

If you swap the squads would the outcome have been any different?

Pep would still win.

 

[UTD_Since_1978]

Ah good, the "apologies" from the players have started. Ever heard the phrase actions speak louder than words?

Maguire's is especially cringe worthy.

Just feck OFF

That's all they seem to do nowadays.

It's always the same thing, we must do this, we must do that, we need to improve, we need to look at ourselves, we must figure out what's wrong, we need to pull together & bounce back, we will do better next game, we go again...etc...

Then they still put in a dreadful performance & it's the same again, we must do this, we must do that..etc...

Just perform on the pitch guys & earn the mega bucks salary you are on.

 

[Poborsky's hair]

I was in the fair city of Leeds yesterday for a music festival and had a wonderful time with some great friends and family. we went into a boozer where the match was on, and by the time we got in it was already 0-1. We watched about ten minutes of another clueless performance, before coming to the conclusion we didn't need to waste anymore of our cool weekend on this fecking rubbish. We drank up, went elsewhere and had absolutely no regrets and a much better Saturday from then on. That might make me a bad fan or whatever but I'm long past caring.

We are going nowhere under this manager. We need to thank him for picking up the pieces from Jose, move him on and get a world class manager and coaching team into the club, as soon as possible.

yeah, there were days when I planned around United playing on weekend and midweek in champions league. Now I don't care anymore. The joy has been sucked out of me, unless we have a new manager it's really a waste of time watching. Still will tune in some games but if I accidently forget we are playing it doesn't bother me. That's how low it got.

 

[12OunceEpilogue]

yeah, there were days when I planned around United playing on weekend and midweek in champions league. Now I don't care anymore. The joy has been sucked out of me, unless we have a new manager it's really a waste of time watching. Still will tune in some games but if I accidently forget we are playing it doesn't bother me. That's how low it got.

I watch all the games if I'm at home or if I'm lucky enough to get a ticket, but I was there to enjoy the music yesterday and was with some non-football fans so had a decision to make. The sad truth is it was a no-brainer, we saved time and effort by just acting like United weren't playing.

 

[Revaulx]

I actually think the two are related. It is easier to run more and fight harder when there is a clear plan and target in mind. People work harder when they understand the collective ambition. The way the best teams press is synchronized. It is clearly reliant on every other individual making a specific move. The same goes for their passing patterns. There is a clear process with a target that has proven to work time and time again. This is in complete contrast with asking people to just run more for the sake of running. I am not saying that it is this extreme between us and other top sides but we most definitely are on the lower end of the spectrum when it comes to a coherent systemic pressing and passing strategy. It simply is way too far fetched to just conclude these players do not care when we have evidence that they are capable of performing just as good as their counter parts.

Ah - yes I think all that’s spot on.

I just find that quite a lot of hipster fans seem to pooh-pooh the notion that hard work on the football field is generally a good thing, and the “patterns of play” teams that they profess to admire tend to be incredibly hard working.

 

[croadyman]

Did any of our players do post match interviews?

All I can find is Ole, Pep and Foden...

Only for North Korean propoganda TV

 

[croadyman]

Im suprised it ended 2-0 and we didnt have another repeat of the Liverpool game.

Course it ended there because City & scousers don't want us to sack him so take the smart move of holding back

 

[Tincanalley]

That's all they seem to do nowadays.

It's always the same thing, we must do this, we must do that, we need to improve, we need to look at ourselves, we must figure out what's wrong, we need to pull together & bounce back, we will do better next game, we go again...etc...

Then they still put in a dreadful performance & it's the same again, we must do this, we must do that..etc...

Just perform on the pitch guys & earn the mega bucks salary you are on.

Its. Not. the. players.

 

[b20times]

Worse than the 6-1 home defeat from Manchester City 10 years ago.
That was painful.

 

[Robertd0803]

Course it ended there because City & scousers don't want us to sack him so take the smart move of holding back

Wouldnt be surprised.

 

[Bestietom]

Men against boys. They really rubbed it in by toying with us.

 

[Max_United]

If you swap the squads would the outcome have been any different?

Absolutely it would be. Under Ole City and Liverpool wood look as clueless as we are, and some would be whining that Ole cannot be expected to compete with no striker/subpar CM options/no squad depth etc etc etc.

 

[Maticmaker]

In over fifty years of supporting and watching United though the ups and downs, I honestly can’t remember a more soulless, inept, abject display than I had the misfortune to endure yesterday.

Its over sixty years in my case and agree with everything you said!
We've suffered some bad results in Oct/Nov in the past but nothing remotely compares with the recent Liverpool/City results. Much as I like Ole and know he has red and white running throughout him like a stick of rock, I get the feeling this is beyond him now, he's in danger of proving the ''Peter Principle' in management competence, once again.

 

[Bestietom]

I Love Ole but I Love my Club more.

 

[Sarni]

Its over sixty years in my case and agree with everything you said!
We've suffered some bad results in Oct/Nov in the past but nothing remotely compares with the recent Liverpool/City results. Much as I like Ole and know he has red and white running throughout him like a stick of rock, I get the feeling this is beyond him now, he's in danger of proving the ''Peter Principle' in management competence, once again.

It's actually an exact repeat of the 2-3 week period in 2014 under Moyes where both of them embarrassed us at OT. Those were both 3-0s which could have easily ended up 5-0 or 6-0, similar to the two games now (City 2-0 was extremely flattering).

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Worse than the 6-1 home defeat from Manchester City 10 years ago.
That was painful.

It is, because even though we took a thrashing that day the effort was there. We knew we would come back from it. Saturday we witnessed a team with no confidence, there was no plan on how to stop City, except put everybody behind the ball waiting for a mistake, except it is more likely it will be us making the mistakes.

 

[Garethw]

I watch all the games if I'm at home or if I'm lucky enough to get a ticket, but I was there to enjoy the music yesterday and was with some non-football fans so had a decision to make. The sad truth is it was a no-brainer, we saved time and effort by just acting like United weren't playing.

Good for you mate! No point ruining a cracking day out watching that shite.

 

[justsomebloke]

Absolutely it would be. Under Ole City and Liverpool wood look as clueless as we are, and some would be whining that Ole cannot be expected to compete with no striker/subpar CM options/no squad depth etc etc etc.

Except I'm really not seeing people arguing that we're performing like we are right now because that's how good our squad is. For the pretty obvious reason that we a) still have all our players from last season, when we finished second and b) are getting much worse results, and performance levels that are even worse than the results.

 

[Maticmaker]

It's actually an exact repeat of the 2-3 week period in 2014 under Moyes where both of them embarrassed us at OT. Those were both 3-0s which could have easily ended up 5-0 or 6-0, similar to the two games now (City 2-0 was extremely flattering).

Fair enough, but I don't remember either of those results under Moyes as being 'souless' displays, they may have been inept maybe lacking in leadership, but in our recent matches after Liverpool scored their second goal and City their first (albeit an OG), this time we gave up; any confidence we might have shown was gone, and in the blink of an eye the inevitability of defeat sat heavy on our players shoulders... a very very disappointing thing to have to witness and the 'theatre of dreams' became the 'chamber of horrors'.

 

[Garethw]

It is, because even though we took a thrashing that day the effort was there. We knew we would come back from it. Saturday we witnessed a team with no confidence, there was no plan on how to stop City, except put everybody behind the ball waiting for a mistake, except it is more likely it will be us making the mistakes.

100%.With Fergie we used to get the odd horrific performance but you knew that the same mistakes would not be made the next game. If we had a poor lethargic half you also knew that the players would hit the ground at 100mph for the second half after the hairdryer from Fergie.

 

[Bestietom]

We can all see we are not improving. In fact we are getting worse. If this is not a reason to change the manager and his staff.
Then we just have NO AMBITION.
I'm sorry Ole but we love this club more than you.

 

[Buster15]

100%.With Fergie we used to get the odd horrific performance but you knew that the same mistakes would not be made the next game. If we had a poor lethargic half you also knew that the players would hit the ground at 100mph for the second half after the hairdryer from Fergie.

That is what management is about and Ole will never have that level of authority.

 

[Sarni]

Fair enough, but I don't remember either of those results under Moyes as being 'souless' displays, they may have been inept maybe lacking in leadership, but in our recent matches after Liverpool scored their second goal and City their first (albeit an OG), this time we gave up; any confidence we might have shown was gone, and in the blink of an eye the inevitability of defeat sat heavy on our players shoulders... a very very disappointing thing to have to witness and the 'theatre of dreams' became the 'chamber of horrors'.

They were exactly the same displays as the last two OT games. I remember when the City game begun (it came after Liverpool game) and they basically could have been 5-0 up inside 10 minutes as our players were not moving at all. Moyes famous 'we should aspire to be as good as them' came after that game and it was even more of a blow than what happened last Saturday as we literally finished 20 points above them mere 10 months prior to that.

I never expected us to go back to that and here we are.

 

[Gordon Godot]

That is what management is about and Ole will never have that level of authority.

The game has also moved on since the Fergie era. Whether some like to admit it or not, the game is now far more technical and tactical at the highest level than it was. United used to occassionally get schooled in Europe or even at home, one reason Fergie used to shake up his coaching team. Our coaching team is a joke. Its also not about the hair dryer, its questionable how much it ever worked. Look at the Ole bounce when he first came in. We have very good players, they like Ole but no longer respect him as they see his complete inability to have a football vision or deliver tactics. Michael Owen's comments yesterday were utterly damning at his management.

 

[Maticmaker]

I never expected us to go back to that and here we are.

Each of us sees things slightly different I suppose. I was at both matches (then and now) you referred to and the overwhelming feeling I had with the Moyes team was we had been outplayed, not necessarily out fought. I agree the City result then, flipped the Liverpool result now. However in neither of those 2014 games do I remember us giving up, just being outplayed and somewhat inept, where as in these recent results after early goals we just looked shell-shocked and ready to raise the white flag (if we had one!).
This team collectively is better than the Moyes team, but not in spirit, despite all the apologies and 'mea culpa's' we now seem to enjoy after every bad result.

I don't think we have gone back I think we have arrived at the same place, albeit via a different route.

 

[Ixion]

I'd say the difference between the Moyes defeats to Liverpool and City and Ole's is they were towards the back end of the season and everyone had already realised Moyes wasn't ready for a club like United and the results felt like going through the motions. These under Ole are near the start of the season when there should be some optimism after bringing in 3 quality players and rather than going through the motions its like crashing back to reality.

 

[Siezard]

City almost scored through Foden. It's not that they didn't try. They couldn't score more without a clinical striker.

 

[Buster15]

The game has also moved on since the Fergie era. Whether some like to admit it or not, the game is now far more technical and tactical at the highest level than it was. United used to occassionally get schooled in Europe or even at home, one reason Fergie used to shake up his coaching team. Our coaching team is a joke. Its also not about the hair dryer, its questionable how much it ever worked. Look at the Ole bounce when he first came in. We have very good players, they like Ole but no longer respect him as they see his complete inability to have a football vision or deliver tactics. Michael Owen's comments yesterday were utterly damning at his management.

Good points.
The famous or infamous hair dryer cannot be systematically used. Of course not. But when needs must, it is another tool which can be brought into play.
I was more alluding to his overall authority over his players. And coaches.
Any leader can only operate if his team understands, accepts and can deploy his/her requirements in a simple practical manner.
And at times, you have to be prepared to bang the table.

Doesn't seem like Ole has that level of authority or respect.
The players will listen to him and maybe others like Ronaldo for example and immediately question what the manager is saying.

Sir Alex Ferguson had that aura about him. Because success breeds success.

 

[Siezard]

Ole beat Man City in the 20/21 and 19/20 season with Daniel James and Martial starting.

 

[UTD_Since_1978]

City almost scored through Foden. It's not that they didn't try. They couldn't score more without a clinical striker.

Do you think Kane would have had a better start to this season if he had joined City & probably notched a couple against us in the Manchester derby?

 

[croadyman]

Do you think Kane would have had a better start to this season if he had joined City & probably notched a couple against us in the Manchester derby?

Yeah Kane plays on Saturday and we would have got another pasting

 

[Sandikan]

We can all see we are not improving. In fact we are getting worse. If this is not a reason to change the manager and his staff.
Then we just have NO AMBITION.
I'm sorry Ole but we love this club more than you.

Agreed.
At least when we came 2nd with Mourinho, he was let down by not being properly backed that summer as a partial excuse.

We've brought in Varane, Sancho and Ronaldo, and still gone massively backwards. Although Varane has barely played, and Sancho has barely got a look in either. But he has been hugely backed.

 

[::sonny::]

 

[nainaisson]

City aren't very good. With a Dan James to close down and threaten to run behind Cancelo, I think we could have come out of that game with a goalless draw. With Dan James gone, the tactical setup gave Bruno that responsibility, and he failed miserably.

 

[UnitedSofa]