[LuisNaniencia]

At least he is still young. It would be different if he was a 27 year old who was supposed to be at his peak. He's got time on his side.

Yeah true. He's also got MOM twice already against Leicester and Southampton, 2 fairly big games so its a question of consistency really.

 

[Rafateria]

Yeah we absolutely want more from him. I for one think it was unlikely for him to hit the ground running due to the expectations re the fee. But I also think he will come good and be a key player for us.

Not this season, in my opinion. Because you have the wrong players around him to give him the freedom he needs, and maybe even the wrong manager to get the best out of him. He isn't an £89m player but that's not his fault, just the way the market is, but fan expectations maybe too high. Probably only 3-4 players in the world are in that price bracket. Maybe United will go to the market in January, maybe you will have to wait until next season to see the best of him.

 

[LuisNaniencia]

Not this season, in my opinion. Because you have the wrong players around him to give him the freedom he needs, and maybe even the wrong manager to get the best out of him. He isn't an £89m player but that's not his fault, just the way the market is, but fan expectations maybe too high. Probably only 3-4 players in the world are in that price bracket. Maybe United will go to the market in January, maybe you will have to wait until next season to see the best of him.

What players in what positions do you think we need around him to get the best from him? I think Mhiki coming into the team will help.

 

[TwoSheds]

Come on.. we have had some shockingly poor performances under Fergie at Anfield. We hardly went for it in the 2 wins I cited. They goals came from goal keeping mistakes off set pieces IIRC. Even today, if Zlatan scored from Pogba's cross, we could have stolen it.

If you genuinely think Fergie wouldn't have had all 3 subs on and be throwing the kitchen sink at then in the last 5 or 10 when everyone looked out on their feet then I don't think you remember Fergie very well.

 

[Catt]

Was United the only team playing y'day? I get the impression the media etc are offended because United "ruined" Pools night.
Perhaps I overrated them going into this game.

 

[Rafateria]

The fact that you needed a Coutinho special from 35 yard out which is a bread and butter save for DDG and one other half chance to Can to try to justify your "dominance" says everything I need to know. What exactly did you do with that possession? Hit crosses, play sideways and backwards. That was what we did last season and it didn't get us anywhere. Just like it didn't get you anywhere yesterday.

Only you and Kraftwerker - on the whole forum - seem to think they were bread and butter saves. That's all I need to know.

And you, like Kraftwerker (same person, two identities on RC ? TIC) fail to credit your defence anywhere near enough. Do you think we should we should have thrown the kitchen sink at you ? Like we did against Chelsea when losing the league title ? We know better than to do that against Mourinho, he almost certainly had a plan to hit us on the break but by showing some patience that opportunity didn't arise.

 

[NK86]

He didn't start well - are you saying he did ? It shouldn't come as too much of a surprise that he started poorly, considering his lack of match time and retrning from injury. He was well in the game after 30 mins though which is a good indication that he just needed to re-orientate himself and get up to speed. There is also no denying that even not under pressure in the first 20 mins we were putting the ball into touch or just passing to a United player. It was very poor before we switched on.

As for a lack of players with technical ability - are you just wumming ? Coutinho, Firmino, Lallana, Matip, Sturridge (though he was awful yesterday), Wijnaldum, Origi (showed lovely feet yesterday at one time), Mane .. need I go on ?

Origi. Are you kidding me. That lovely feet was Rooney taking the ball off his feet and us getting a goal kick. Firmino is bang average when put under pressure. The only two players who are actually good at dribbling out of a tight spot is Coutinho and Mane. I could give you Lallana but he is also an average player.

 

[roonster09]

Liverpool created next to nothing. Even the Can shot, not sure why it wasn't called offside as Firmino was running across the keeper and it might have obstructed keeper's view. For all the pressing and all that, when United pressed they just couldn't handle it. First half for the majority ManUtd players won the possession high up the pitch and played the game in Liverpool's half.

Also for most of the game Liverpool game was like Van Gaal's ManUtd team. All the possession but feck all chances to show.

 

[Rafateria]

What players in what positions do you think we need around him to get the best from him? I think Mhiki coming into the team will help.

Absolutely. I loved Mhiki from way back when we were after him and lost out to Dortmund. He looks like he also needs time though, and to be played in a position that is currently the remit of Rooney/Mata. It may be a case of out with the old and in with the new before United can get the best out of both Pogba and Mhiki.

 

[#07]

Was United the only team playing y'day? I get the impression the media etc are offended because United "ruined" Pools night.
Perhaps I overrated them going into this game.

Jose Mourinho was right to say the pundits and the press love Liverpool.

The narrative in England going into this game was that Liverpool were going to blow Man Utd away. Jose spoiled the party, even without Zlatan scoring that header, and the Liverpool lovers don't like it.

 

[NK86]

Only you and Kraftwerker - on the whole forum - seem to think they were bread and butter saves. That's all I need to know.

And you, like Kraftwerker (same person, two identities on RC ? TIC) fail to credit your defence anywhere near enough. Do you think we should we should have thrown the kitchen sink at you ? Like we did against Chelsea when losing the league title ? We know better than to do that against Mourinho, he almost certainly had a plan to hit us on the break but by showing some patience that opportunity didn't arise.

You guys did diddly squat barring a couple of chances. Sideways passing, and backwards to your defense does not mean you controlled the game. We pressed you in the first half and you were all at sea. Second half, we decided to sit deep and you still had no answer to that. What exactly is it that you wanted? Us to play a game which suits you to a tee and only then you can do anything of note? Not sure why I asked that because it seems that is exactly what you are crying about.

As a team you lot were nowhere near good enough to go through us and you needed a Countinho attempt from 35 yards to try to prove you were better. Are you having a laugh?

 

[Rafateria]

Origi. Are you kidding me. That lovely feet was Rooney taking the ball off his feet and us getting a goal kick. Firmino is bang average when put under pressure. The only two players who are actually good at dribbling out of a tight spot is Coutinho and Mane. I could give you Lallana but he is also an average player.

Jeez. That post (and the next one just above) certainly illustrates your lack of nouse to absolute perfection.

 

[mitchmouse]

I rather enjoyed the tactical battle and for those who didn't I ask would you have preferred a thrilling game and lost 3-0? We are still playing catch-up with some of our rivals (including Liverpool) after three years of total dross from Messrs Moyes and Van Gaal. I have no problem with a strong defensive display although I would have liked a bit more adventure when we broke (not that we did much of that). Agree with Gary Nev's choice of MoM - Herrera's best game in a United shirt. We do still need a world-class creative midfielder so that Pogba can play (and break from) a little deeper and I think we've seen that Rashford (like Martial) cannot be expected to produce miracles every week so we need another top forward when Zlatan isn't firing on all cylinders. I was a bit disappointed when I saw the line-up - Fellaini instead of Carrick, Young in there but have to say Jose got it spot on for what he wanted to achieve. But this will only look a rally good point if we beat lowly teams home and away and our rivals at OT. Can't go without mentioning DDG but unlike most I thought the first save was the better of the two: it was low, he must have seen it late and he had to push it away from any incoming forwards (altho there weren't any!)

 

[jackofalltrades]

Won't complain about the draw. Everyone was predicting a home win and not many teams will get a point at Anfield, at least until/unless they run out of steam. I think Mou's plan for the difficult away games this season will be points to climb up the table, not flair. That will come later.

Europa League next, then Chelsea, followed by City. A hard period.

 

[NK86]

Jeez. That post (and the next one just above) certainly illustrates your lack of nouse to absolute perfection.

While your rambling about your "dominance" just shows that the scouse delusion is strong in you.

 

[Massive Spanner]

Sorry to p1ss on your chips but we aren't exactly furious.

We didn't play well yet could have won, as a team we are moving in the right direction and getting better with a great manager at the helm.
It's because of our improvement that we are disappointed we didn't win.

United fans are happy to have scraped a 0-0 draw - how times change eh?

We didn't really scrape a draw, though. We had the best chance in the match and your two chances you keep rambling on about were more great pieces of individual play than anything clear cut.

We were also away from home, at Anfield, and you're in better form right now. Even under Fergie I never went to Anfield confident that we would win the game, so times haven't really changed at all.

 

[podurban2]

We scraped a draw huh? Everyone should be able to agree that we were better in the first half and Liverpool better in the second, and that a draw was a very fair result for both teams.

 

[Ferguson]

This is the Mourinho that people talk about as a defensive manager. He'll attack in the rest of the matches, but against the better teams he'll stop them first and attack second.

I couldn't believe it when we brought on Shaw to kill the match. I don't think I've never seen United settle for a draw like that before in the Premier League.

That said, Mourinho may be right to play this way, especially given that our team is newly minted.

 

[roonster09]

From BBC:

For all the social media chatter and criticism from Liverpool fans, where Mourinho's crime appeared to be a refusal to allow Klopp's side to play in a manner in which they would win, United's manager was realism personified.

It was functional, not easy on the eye and brought predictable accusations that Mourinho had parked the bus. He will respond, with justification and a point in his pocket, that United came away with a draw at a place plenty will leave empty-handed this season.

Sums up perfectly.

 

[Dumbstar]

We scraped a draw huh? Everyone should be able to agree that we were better in the first half and Liverpool better in the second, and that a draw was a very fair result for both teams.

I agree, a draw was a fair result. Utd came for it and Liverpool will settle for it. From an opposing (non WUM) view I thought Ibra was very imposing but ultimately too old for such a game. Pogba, bar one shimmy and cross, was poor. Rashford was completely nullified by playing so far on the wing, and this made me the happiest as he is one dangerous goalscorer (got him in my FF too).

For all the raving I have given Bailly over the last few months I know he has one major flaw - ball control. But he didn't fck up with the ball at/near his feet, neither did Smalling. That was good concentration from both. My MOTM was Valencia but Herrera is fair enough too. A few Utd players were puffing and panting like they'd run a marathon, never seen a team look so tired. In the first half! All that despite less miles covered. Squad usage is going to be vital against Fenerbache if they are to put in the same effort against Chelsea.

 

[pixel]

I agree, a draw was a fair result. Utd came for it and Liverpool will settle for it. From an opposing (non WUM) view I thought Ibra was very imposing but ultimately too old for such a game. Pogba, bar one shimmy and cross, was poor. Rashford was completely nullified by playing so far on the wing, and this made me the happiest as he is one dangerous goalscorer (got him in my FF too).

For all the raving I have given Bailly over the last few months I know he has one major flaw - ball control. But he didn't fck up with the ball at/near his feet, neither did Smalling. That was good concentration from both. My MOTM was Valencia but Herrera is fair enough too. A few Utd players were puffing and panting like they'd run a marathon, never seen a team look so tired. In the first half! All that despite less miles covered. Squad usage is going to be vital against Fenerbache if they are to put in the same effort against Chelsea.

Good post. Agree with everything you said.

 

[Dumbstar]

From BBC:


Sums up perfectly.

I could sum it up better (WUM mode back on): Mourinho went to a much better team and got a creditable draw away from home.

 

[SalfordRed1960]

So now Man Utd are afraid of Liverpool they are so much better than us that we have to defend with 9 players and only hold on to a point through some brilliant saves from DDG.
Everybody is saying that Liverpool would've destroyed us that we are not at Liverpool's level. That the only way we could live with Liverpool is to park the bus. That wasn't the case last year we beat them twice in the league.
What has changed since last season? We've changed manager and spent a fortune on players.

Think you are over playing "being afraid of Liverpool" and "Liverpool is way ahead of us". Neither are true.
IMO Jose hasn't got a first 11 he is happy with. But he knows how to counter certain playing styles, so he rotates. Most fans were peeved at his team against Liverpool, yet he proved again that it was the right team at this stage of the season. Having now seen the game it was our forward line that failed to turn up. As with previous managers a lot of this is down to the player. Would other players have made us more of a threat not so sure.
The game also showed that Liverpool, though having some good results, are not really that good. At home and 9 shots, really, and this is them in form.
I didn't see this parking the bus that some on here have said. I saw a team negate an opponent that ran out of ideas. They will find it as hard as Chelsea, United and Everton to get top 4 and that is without any European games to hamper them.

 

[JJ12]

The point would have looked a whole lot better if we had beaten Stoke in our last outing. A point away to a good Liverpool side is always a good point.

DDG, Bailly and Herrera best performers.

Zlatan and Rashford were ineffective.

 

[Fully Fledged]

Think you are over playing "being afraid of Liverpool" and "Liverpool is way ahead of us". Neither are true.
IMO Jose hasn't got a first 11 he is happy with. But he knows how to counter certain playing styles, so he rotates. Most fans were peeved at his team against Liverpool, yet he proved again that it was the right team at this stage of the season. Having now seen the game it was our forward line that failed to turn up. As with previous managers a lot of this is down to the player. Would other players have made us more of a threat not so sure.
The game also showed that Liverpool, though having some good results, are not really that good. At home and 9 shots, really, and this is them in form.
I didn't see this parking the bus that some on here have said. I saw a team negate an opponent that ran out of ideas. They will find it as hard as Chelsea, United and Everton to get top 4 and that is without any European games to hamper them.

We played with 2 defensive mids sitting deep and most of the time Rashford and Young were back in defence rather than supporting the attacker. For large parts of the game the only player ahead of the ball was Zlatan.

 

[Sassy Colin]

Has this been posted yet, re: Rashford's substitution:

Manchester United manager Jose Mourinho has revealed Marcus Rashford was forced off against Liverpool with cramp.


The Englishman was replaced with captain Wayne Rooney after 77 minutes and Mourinho claims it was only then that he settled for a draw.

The Portuguese boss has explained how it forced him to change his game plan against Jurgen Klopp’s side at Anfield.

“I think we missed a little bit of sharpness through the middle,” he said.

“I was expecting more penetration and I was thinking about playing Rashford in the position behind Zlatan but he had cramp and I made a change. At that moment I thought it would be difficult to win now, so let’s not lose it.”

Rashford has quickly worked his way into an indispensable member in the squad once again after many believed he’d be left out due to Zlatan Ibrahimovic’s arrival at Old Trafford.

He has knocked down all expectations of himself since his debut in February and hopes are his injury is nothing serious as Man United head into a busy schedule of fixtures.

Mourinho’s side face Fenerbache, Chelsea, Man City, Burnley and Swansea all with three day intervals and Rashford will be a key member for the squad.

Interesting that he felt he couldn't play Rooney where he had planned to play Rashford, and what about Martial instead of Rooney (was he on the bench, I can't remember)?

 

[NK86]

Has this been posted yet, re: Rashford's substitution:



Interesting that he felt he couldn't play Rooney where he had planned to play Rashford, and what about Martial instead of Rooney (was he on the bench, I can't remember)?

Martial and Mkhi were injured.

 

[Drz]

Contrasting opinions and tones. Having implanted a new spine, our team was/is not ready to take on a "well-oiled Kloop machine", thus the tactics made sens and the draw is a good result if you agree with the premise.

If it comes to the point where we deploy as such in 2017, and notably at home (Chelsea vs PSG), that's when I'll worry.

On individual performances : before the season started I thought Rashford>Zlatan at 9, now I'm sure Rashford>Zlatan as an out and out striker.
No doubt Zlatan up-top brings something to the table but Rashford in his own way would have : a/ been onside on a few of the occasions Zlatan was not. b/ kept from fouling his marker when played through, simply because he can beat him for pace. c/ not missed that sitter. Finally, anyone who has watched Zlatan would know he for some reason or another goes missing in the big games, notably the big away games.

Pogba : Did his best covering passing angles as the first defensive curtain. But, the way I see it, still has the same issues before he decided to leave for Juve, trouble dealing with the speed at which you get closed-down in English football.

Feel Rashford is quite waisted on the wing. (To think I'd dream of a 442 with Martial and Rashford combining at full speed up-top, so I'm biased here)

Herrera : A UTD Warrior.

De Gea : De God!

Valencia, Fellaini and Young : Did their jobs and showed good levels of concentration.

 

[RedStarUnited]

The most annoying thing for me is that a lot of opposition fans, actually even our own fans will view that game the wrong way. We out pressed Liverpool and stopped them from pressing us yesterday for the majority of the match.

Rashford probably had his worst game for us. Pogba and Ibra also had bad games. and that for me was the reason we didnt do much attacking. But the setup and tactics were perfect.

 

[Adisa]

 

[Catt]

The most annoying thing for me is that a lot of opposition fans, actually even our own fans will view that game the wrong way. We out pressed Liverpool and stopped them from pressing us yesterday for the majority of the match.

Rashford probably had his worst game for us. Pogba and Ibra also had bad games. and that for me was the reason we didnt do much attacking. But the setup and tactics were perfect.

The first half was very good indeed, and as you say we lacked that little bit going forward. Mourinho also said that.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

The first half was very good indeed, and as you say we lacked that little bit going forward. Mourinho also said that.

Which makes you think that he wasn't after a 0-0 like most Liverpool fans seem to think. If was unfortunate that our forwards had an off night, but our defence and midfield were magnificent.

 

[Catt]

Jose Mourinho was right to say the pundits and the press love Liverpool.

The narrative in England going into this game was that Liverpool were going to blow Man Utd away. Jose spoiled the party, even without Zlatan scoring that header, and the Liverpool lovers don't like it.

Yet, if Pool are that great they should still be able to produce better football.
They did mostly nothing but United are the ones spoiling the party.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Yet, if Pool are that great they should still be able to produce better football.
They did mostly nothing but United are the ones spoiling the party.

They are annoyed because someone sussed them out and showed everyone else how to do it as well.

 

[Catt]

Which makes you think that he wasn't after a 0-0 like most Liverpool fans seem to think. If was unfortunate that our forwards had an off night, but our defence and midfield were magnificent.

I think he wanted a win but we just weren't good enough going forward.
And of course their fans will say that he wanted a draw. How else explain their own incapability other than blame it on a parked bus?

 

[roonster09]

ManUtd didn't park the bus. They pressed and defended well. Big difference between the two.

 

[togg]

Liverpool have been scoring a fair number of goals recently. Jose couldn't ignore that, he had to nullify it and got the defence just right. If he hadn't planned for it we probably would have been stuffed 4-0. Right tactics to snuff out the threat. Plus, yeah...we pressed as well.....

park the bus indeed!!

 

[MartialsBeard]

Has this been posted yet, re: Rashford's substitution:



Interesting that he felt he couldn't play Rooney where he had planned to play Rashford, and what about Martial instead of Rooney (was he on the bench, I can't remember)?

Excellent, Im glad you brought this up because it is yet another case of a world class tactician adapting his team and his style on the fly and securing the point.

Rashford was meant to move into the no.10 position an area we've all wanted to see him in this would have meant the big boys in midfield would have had an out ball down the centre and the pool defence would be pre-occupied by Zlatan. Rashford cramps up, needs to come off, meaning the game plan is essentially out of the window and it becomes a game of settling for the point as Rooney and the other front players would not have had the penetration Marcus does.

Excellent post.

Thanks, appreciate it.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Excellent, Im glad you brought this up because it is yet another case of a world class tactician adapting his team and his style on the fly and securing the point.

Rashford was meant to move into the no.10 position an area we've all wanted to see him in this would have meant the big boys in midfield would have had an out ball down the centre and the pool defence would be pre-occupied by Zlatan. Rashford cramps up, needs to come off, meaning the game plan is essentially out of the window and it becomes a game of settling for the point as Rooney and the other front players would not have had the penetration Marcus does.



Thanks, appreciate it.

Says a lot about what he thinks regarding Wayne.

 

[FacerTheRed]

So now Man Utd are afraid of Liverpool they are so much better than us that we have to defend with 9 players and only hold on to a point through some brilliant saves from DDG.
Everybody is saying that Liverpool would've destroyed us that we are not at Liverpool's level. That the only way we could live with Liverpool is to park the bus. That wasn't the case last year we beat them twice in the league.
What has changed since last season? We've changed manager and spent a fortune on players.

In what part of my post expressed that United were afraid. You're getting afraid mixed up with caution. If you cant see at the fact Liverpool do look more unified and are in-form than United then you're deluded my friend. United are looking inconsistent, still trying to find the right system with the right players in the right positions and build that chemistry between the players. All due to the fact we have 4 new players (one of them that needs to be accommodated accordingly to get the best out of him) with a new manager and new coaching staff. That is a HUGE change!