[RedorDead21]

Hard to beat,organized but boring to watch sometimes.

Bournemouth are good to watch.....Arsenal are good to watch...even Everton I guess.....What trophies are handed out for that. Every trophy we ever won was us being lucky, buying refs, piss poor competition......you care about being good to watch? No one other than United fans would admit we were anyhow!!!

 

[royboy16]

Bournemouth are good to watch.....Arsenal are good to watch...even Everton I guess.....What trophies are handed out for that. Every trophy we ever won was us being lucky, buying refs, piss poor competition......you care about being good to watch? No one other than United fans would admit we were anyhow!!!

Some of the titles we won under SAF were great to watch.

Im not looking for Barcelona type football but better than what Im currently seeing.

 

[RedorDead21]

I've seen 11 league title wins in my lifetime, winning them wasn't my greatest joy as a fan, it was the entertainment the teams under SAF provided me, right now I'd settle for seeing some good football, I am not desperate for another title that I'd want to sit through this crap each week, if you are that's fair enough.

If you are forced to wait as long as Liverpool....but are still saying well we played some cracking football...alongside me, who would take any quick title, attract the best managers to replace LVG and the best players in each window..I assure you, in 20 years time....my thinking would make you happier in the long run!

 

[RedorDead21]

Some of the titles we won under SAF were great to watch.

Im not looking for Barcelona type football but better than what Im currently seeing.

We would all like that, but we are a point off top with a team no one expected to win the league this year....but we need to, we need to keep De Gea, Martial etc, we need to lay the SAF era to bed, we need to attract the top talent......you think Stones wouldnt want to join the best defence in the league if we come top? You think in Europe they watch every game and think nah I'd rather Chelsea....?

 

[Womp]

If you are forced to wait as long as Liverpool....but are still saying well we played some cracking football...alongside me, who would take any quick title, attract the best managers to replace LVG and the best players in each window..I assure you, in 20 years time....my thinking would make you happier in the long run!

Except this football we're playing won't win us any major titles. We might be able to scrape the PL title this season, mainly due to the fact of how shite every other team in the league is. Why would top players want to come here? If not for the attractive football, it'd be for money and we've seen how that turns out. Also who's to say the top players would be able to make a difference here? Take Martial for example, was only a matter of time before the philosophy caught up with him.

 

[simonhch]

I've seen 11 league title wins in my lifetime, winning them wasn't my greatest joy as a fan, it was the entertainment the teams under SAF provided me, right now I'd settle for seeing some good football, I am not desperate for another title that I'd want to sit through this crap each week, if you are that's fair enough.

I'd agree with this. United isn't my job, where results are all that matters. My boss doesn't boo me because my management style isn't exciting enough. But I do make time to watch United every week precisely because it is my no.1 passion. A passion born out of years of exhilaration. There were highs and lows, but it got you off the couch yelling at the TV, had my stomach in butterflies before the game, and excitement all week as I looked forward to the next match. Even when we were bad, I had those same feelings, because there was always an element of hope, of expectation of the unexpected. I've felt that way for 28 of the 29 years I've actively supported the club (no, I am not 29).

But the last ten games..... it's implanted in me the first real sense of apathy I've ever had as a supporter. Right after we equalized today my wife came into the room to see me reading on my phone, "Why aren't you celebrating?" she asked. I didn't really have a good answer. I just didn't feel like it. The goal felt like an aberration in another militaristic performance, the continuity of which was inevitable.

For all the talk of the Mata's and Rooney's of this world not being good enough anymore, the real answer lies in Van Gaal's own words. "Football is not a game of the legs, it is a game of the brain". Our coach means this as depiction of his efforts to train players to be tactically and positionally aware; but the really crucial mental element of the game comes in the form of confidence and improvisation. Two elements the Iron Tulip is crushing out of our players.

I've been a staunch supporter of Van Gaal, and I think it would reflect very poorly on the club to sack him now; but come this summer, important decisions will have to be made. Is the playing style of the team as important as results? That's like asking if ejaculation is all that matters during sex. At the end of the day there has to be some chemistry, and the sex has to feel good. If long term United fans like myself, who have supported the club through thick and thin, are feeling dejected despite results, what do the hierarchy think is happening to their much more fickle global following? At the end of the day money will talk, and Van Gaal will shape up or ship out. The bigger questions is, will we have already missed out on the best managerial alternatives, and if so where does that leave us.

The club will add more players in January, of that I have no doubt; but who is in charge of this recruitment policy? Should it still be a manager who at most has an 18 month shelf life?

 

[Devil may care]

If you are forced to wait as long as Liverpool....but are still saying well we played some cracking football...alongside me, who would take any quick title, attract the best managers to replace LVG and the best players in each window..I assure you, in 20 years time....my thinking would make you happier in the long run!

Football is not the be all and end all for me mate, I like to get away from the stress of life with a game, I want to be entertained not bored, I'd watch soaps if I wanted sleep. Giggs will likely be the next manager regardless and we wont beat Barca, Real and Bayern to the best players even if we win the next 4 PL's.

 

[RedorDead21]

Except this football we're playing won't win us any major titles. We might be able to scrape the PL title this season, mainly due to the fact of how shite every other team in the league is. Why would top players want to come here? If not for the attractive football, it'd be for money and we've seen how that turns out. Also who's to say the top players would be able to make a difference here? Take Martial for example, was only a matter of time before the philosophy caught up with him.

Martial who no one here wanted? So thats no even deemed a LVG coup? Except Chelsea won plenty playing with the best defence and a player up front who excelled! Why would they want to play for a United who came 4th? over one who came top?

 

[Devil may care]

I'd agree with this. United isn't my job, where results are all that matters. My boss doesn't boo me because my management style isn't exciting enough. But I do make time to watch United every week precisely because it is my no.1 passion. A passion born out of years of exhilaration. There were highs and lows, but it got you off the couch yelling at the TV, had my stomach in butterflies before the game, and excitement all week as I looked forward to the next match. Even when we were bad, I had those same feelings, because there was always an element of hope, of expectation of the unexpected. I've felt that way for 28 of the 29 years I've actively supported the club (no, I am not 29).

But the last ten games..... it's implanted in me the first real sense of apathy I've ever had as a supporter. Right after we equalized today my wife came into the room to see me reading on my phone, "Why aren't you celebrating?" she asked. I didn't really have a good answer. I just didn't feel like it. The goal felt like an aberration in another militaristic performance, the continuity of which was inevitable.

For all the talk of the Mata's and Rooney's of this world not being good enough anymore, the real answer lies in Van Gaal's own words. "Football is not a game of the legs, it is a game of the brain". Our coach means this as depiction of his efforts to train players to be tactically and positionally aware; but the really crucial mental element of the game comes in the form of confidence and improvisation. Two elements the Iron Tulip is crushing out of our players.

I've been a staunch supporter of Van Gaal, and I think it would reflect very poorly on the club to sack him now; but come this summer, important decisions will have to be made. Is the playing style of the team as important as results? That's like asking if ejaculation is all that matters during sex. At the end of the day there has to be some chemistry, and the sex has to feel good. If long term United fans like myself, who have supported the club through thick and thin, are feeling dejected despite results, what do the hierarchy think is happening to their much more fickle global following? At the end of the day money will talk, and Van Gaal will shape up or ship out. The bigger questions is, will we have already missed out on the best managerial alternatives, and if so where does that leave us.

The club will add more players in January, of that I have no doubt; but who is in charge of this recruitment policy? Should it still be a manager who at most has an 18 month shelf life?

You have summed it much more eloquently than my tired angry posts, United is about more than the scoreline at full time for many of us, it's about the rush and the excitement. I even started this season with renewed hope as I do each season but right now I feel as bereft of passion for our matches as I did under Moyes, despite the results.

 

[RedorDead21]

Football is not the be all and end all for me mate, I like to get away from the stress of life with a game, I want to be entertained not bored, I'd watch soaps if I wanted sleep. Giggs will likely be the next manager regardless and we wont beat Barca, Real and Bayern to the best players even if we win the next 4 PL's.

Err but we can quite easily. From next summer the PL will be blowing all European clubs out of the water money wise. Why would Man United who finish top now not be able to compete with those teams? Perhaps for Europeans but that would be the case if Barca came 5th! Stones would come.......and the PLs top talent might come.

 

[Devil may care]

Err but we can quite easily. From next summer the PL will be blowing all European clubs out of the water money wise. Why would Man United who finish top now not be able to compete with those teams? Perhaps for Europeans but that would be the case if Barca came 5th! Stones would come.......and the PLs top talent might come.

We don't need to win the PL to get Stones, Lukaku, Kane etc...

 

[Womp]

Martial who no one here wanted? So thats no even deemed a LVG coup? Except Chelsea won plenty playing with the best defence and a player up front who excelled! Why would they want to play for a United who came 4th? over one who came top?

Martial was a coup and LVG and everyone else in the club involved in his transfer deserve credit, but you're missing the point. His transfer wasn't the issue, the fact that he's getting worse and worse with every game and turning more and more into an "LVG" player is. Also, they'd want to play for United when we were 4th as like the rest of us (fans inc) when we were 4th after a season I'm sure the players saw it as a step forward from Moyes, on the right path. Unfortunately the longer we persist with this dull shite and the longer we keep being satisfied with 0-0 draws and 1-0 wins more and more players will begin to realise no steps are no longer being made as the fans are beginning to realise.

 

[RedorDead21]

We don't need to win the PL to get Stones, Lukaku, Kane etc...

Thats laugable tho because if city or Chelsea come top they will have that on their CV which will not hurt at all!!!!! We lost Hazard as in his words he wanted to join the champions....he didnt say its because my agent wanted 5m and only Chelsea met that..because thats bollocks!

 

[Womp]

Thats laugable tho because if city or Chelsea come top they will have that on their CV which will not hurt at all!!!!! We lost Hazard as in his words he wanted to join the champions....he didnt say its because my agent wanted 5m and only Chelsea met that..because thats bollocks!

You're talking about winning the EPL and it's assistance in getting us top players, then use an example where Hazard was talking about the Champions league? Hazard joined Chelsea over us for $$$. He's said it himself in an interview iirc recently. His transfer to us was nearly all but set until Roman spoke to him on his boat or something.

 

[RedorDead21]

Martial was a coup and LVG and everyone else in the club involved in his transfer deserve credit, but you're missing the point. His transfer wasn't the issue, the fact that he's getting worse and worse with every game and turning more and more into an "LVG" player is. Also, they'd want to play for United when we were 4th as like the rest of us (fans inc) when we were 4th after a season I'm sure the players saw it as a step forward from Moyes, on the right path. Unfortunately the longer we persist with this dull shite and the longer we keep being satisfied with 0-0 draws and 1-0 wins more and more players will begin to realise no steps are no longer being made as the fans are beginning to realise.

Or perhaps LVG is brighter than you, knows Rooney isn't Riquelme, knows benching Rooney would cause him more internal problems than his replacement on the field would fix.....ala Maureen seeing exactly what player power can do with a far better first 11 than ours!!

 

[Womp]

Or perhaps LVG is brighter than you, knows Rooney isn't Riquelme, knows benching Rooney would cause him more internal problems than his replacement on the field would fix.....ala Maureen seeing exactly what player power can do with a far better first 11 than ours!!

No manager is worth his salt if he's cowering from big decisions because he's scared of "player power". The best managers do the best for the team, not the best for their boring philosophy. Also LVG isn't the type of manager to cower from players, he's showed his ex players his bollox ffs, he's been kicked from many teams for unsettling players, it's what he does. He's not playing Rooney because he's scared of unsettling the team, he's playing Rooney because he genuinely thinks he's playing well, taking his unlimited praise for him into account.

 

[stu_1992]

It's a decent result all things considered, it's just a win after the bad result during the week was needed to bring back some feelgood factor. We were definitely the better team overall today and it's disappointing that we didn't get a better result but I would have taken a draw before the game in an away match,, and considering the form that they are in.

 

[Devil may care]

Thats laugable tho because if city or Chelsea come top they will have that on their CV which will not hurt at all!!!!! We lost Hazard as in his words he wanted to join the champions....he didnt say its because my agent wanted 5m and only Chelsea met that..because thats bollocks!

You know Hazard personally? Also they won the CL not the PL that season. We can beat any club in this country to a player already playing here this summer.

 

[Smores]

I'm in the same position as the poster above, LvGs football is destroying the passion I have for watching our games. I missed the PSV game and that's probably the second game I've missed in say the last 5 seasons.

I was excited/hopeful before this match as at least Leicester play some good football. It's not just boring and lifeless, we're awful in attack and that doesn't look like changing.

Bit of positivity, a point is probably going to be an OK result in the end and Rooney being subbed at least showed he isn't completely untouchable.

 

[RedorDead21]

You know Hazard personally? Also they won the CL not the PL that season. We can beat any club in this country to a player already playing here this summer.

Even if we come 5th?

 

[Devil may care]

Even if we come 5th?

CL football is a big draw so no, but you were talking about winning the league being important in winning the race for these players, not just making top 4.

 

[Nucks]

I missed the game, late late night, but most people saying Mata was invisible. To be fair, that's basically what Mata has been all season. He's invisible until he isn't.

The story of his season is, he is invisible until he either chips in with an assist, a goal or not. I love him, but I can see why Mourinho let him go. He is not an impact player. The way he shy's away from any sort of physical contact means he will never be a dominating presence and we really should never count on him to be the guy to take the game by the scruff of the neck.

I feel like this is probably a big reason LvG plays him out wide rather than centrally. He can chip in with an assist or a goal, but he isn't going to boss things.

 

[RedorDead21]

No manager is worth his salt if he's cowering from big decisions because he's scared of "player power". The best managers do the best for the team, not the best for their boring philosophy. Also LVG isn't the type of manager to cower from players, he's showed his ex players his bollox ffs, he's been kicked from many teams for unsettling players, it's what he does. He's not playing Rooney because he's scared of unsettling the team, he's playing Rooney because he genuinely thinks he's playing well, taking his unlimited praise for him into account.

Its not cowering it could be perhaps thinking long term...knowing we could sell him next summer for some value, knowing having him on board could really help this season, knowing next summer we will look to replace him....quite frankly we both know you know nothing compared to LVG, even if you were Mourinho, because LVG knows whats the longer term plan for our club and who is being tapped up to replace Rooney etc etc

 

[RedorDead21]

CL football is a big draw so no, but you were talking about winning the league being important in winning the race for these players, not just making top 4.

I think it is. If you think coming 4th and playing good football trumps coming 1st its idiotic in the extreme!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[drdoityourself]

I miss the Fergie time days. We really wouldn't have gotten 2 mins added time and the final whistle before the minimum was reached if he were on the sidelines. I am one of the few who thought we could have gotten something, Martial was in a good position.

Van Gaal is overly respectful to the officials, it's beginning to bug me.

 

[Devil may care]

I think it is. If you think coming 4th and playing good football trumps coming 1st its idiotic in the extreme!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not enough exclamation points. Just look at Chelsea, they finished first last season, anyone rushing to join them on the back of that is now wondering if they'll even be playing in the CL next season, maybe some players are smart enough to choose their move based on more than last seasons league standings, or maybe they are all as simplistically minded as you are, who knows.

 

[Womp]

Its not cowering it could be perhaps thinking long term...knowing we could sell him next summer for some value, knowing having him on board could really help this season, knowing next summer we will look to replace him....quite frankly we both know you know nothing compared to LVG, even if you were Mourinho, because LVG knows whats the longer term plan for our club and who is being tapped up to replace Rooney etc etc

Who is saying I know more than LVG? You say LVG knows that we should sell Rooney next summer and find a replacement, I also think that, so should I also manage United? Anyone and their Nan can see Rooney is done. What is it he will "offer" this season?

 

[BigDunc9]

It reminds me of Moyes Everton at times.

This.

I mentioned in another thread Van Gaal is doing the the job I expected Moyes to do.

Hard to beat and very solid at the back, 2 sitting midfielders, no pace on the wings and every striker looking shit. Even his attitude towards chasing the win is Moyesesque.

 

[Momochiru]

So much overreaction. We are 1 point off the top, ffs!

 

[Di Maria's angel]

I'd agree with this. United isn't my job, where results are all that matters. My boss doesn't boo me because my management style isn't exciting enough. But I do make time to watch United every week precisely because it is my no.1 passion. A passion born out of years of exhilaration. There were highs and lows, but it got you off the couch yelling at the TV, had my stomach in butterflies before the game, and excitement all week as I looked forward to the next match. Even when we were bad, I had those same feelings, because there was always an element of hope, of expectation of the unexpected. I've felt that way for 28 of the 29 years I've actively supported the club (no, I am not 29).

But the last ten games..... it's implanted in me the first real sense of apathy I've ever had as a supporter. Right after we equalized today my wife came into the room to see me reading on my phone, "Why aren't you celebrating?" she asked. I didn't really have a good answer. I just didn't feel like it. The goal felt like an aberration in another militaristic performance, the continuity of which was inevitable.

For all the talk of the Mata's and Rooney's of this world not being good enough anymore, the real answer lies in Van Gaal's own words. "Football is not a game of the legs, it is a game of the brain". Our coach means this as depiction of his efforts to train players to be tactically and positionally aware; but the really crucial mental element of the game comes in the form of confidence and improvisation. Two elements the Iron Tulip is crushing out of our players.

I've been a staunch supporter of Van Gaal, and I think it would reflect very poorly on the club to sack him now; but come this summer, important decisions will have to be made. Is the playing style of the team as important as results? That's like asking if ejaculation is all that matters during sex. At the end of the day there has to be some chemistry, and the sex has to feel good. If long term United fans like myself, who have supported the club through thick and thin, are feeling dejected despite results, what do the hierarchy think is happening to their much more fickle global following? At the end of the day money will talk, and Van Gaal will shape up or ship out. The bigger questions is, will we have already missed out on the best managerial alternatives, and if so where does that leave us.

The club will add more players in January, of that I have no doubt; but who is in charge of this recruitment policy? Should it still be a manager who at most has an 18 month shelf life?

Well said.

I felt exactly the same after we scored. My Dad shouted at me, as I decided to make myself dinner (incidentally, it was more entertaining), I walked into the living room, watched the replay and walked out. I really couldn't care that we scored. A real hollow feeling, that I've never experienced whilst watching United.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

So much overreaction. We are 1 point off the top, ffs!

That's not the fecking point. Many don't care that we're 1 point of the top. If I wanted to see us lift the PL trophy at the end of the year, I'd wait till the end of the season.

 

[Organic Potatoes]

Cheers:

• Bastian stamping some authority on the match
• Sexy Dave
• That pasta a la carbonara I had

Jeers:

• Our forwards except for Martial
• Our forwards except for Martial
• Our forwards except for Martial

 

[RedorDead21]

Who is saying I know more than LVG? You say LVG knows that we should sell Rooney next summer and find a replacement, I also think that, so should I also manage United? Anyone and their Nan can see Rooney is done. What is it he will "offer" this season?

You say it like Rooney is the worst player...God they drove Shearer out of the England team when he was easily their best striker saying that. Its laughable. He's a weak link in what could be a great team. He's not as bad as people make out. I want him replaced with Herrera..so we have actually recruited his replacement.

 

[Momochiru]

That's not the fecking point. Many don't care that we're 1 point of the top. If I wanted to see us lift the PL trophy at the end of the year, I'd wait till the end of the season.

Well, you can't get what you want all the time. LVG got his goals for the season set by the board - I think it is top 3 or 4 and he is on target to achieve it, in fact he is well positioned to be challenging for the title. I think is become fashionable to moan against LVG - sure I was frustrated today as well, but I think it's mostly individual lack of quality that is holding us back - I can't keep track any more of how many stray passes and overhit crosses there were during the match and the less said about our shots from distance the better. Other than that we were dominating away from home against the current leader - lets keep things in perspective.

 

[sunama]

Remember that 4-0 against QPR last year? Glory days.

Indeed. That game was with Di Maria (who had not yet learnt the LVG method of side/back passing).
It was also before the mauling at the hands of LCFC, which completely changed LVGs original plan to play attacking football, to ultra defensive football.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

So now we've got the supporters who don't care if we win the PL title or not but they must be entertained which is far more important.
Logic then says that why support United if they don't care if we win or not - go and support another team and be entertained - the moaning won't be missed - close the door on the way out.

 

[Rozay]

I'm not sure Wayne Rooney can be considered world class anymore

Aren't you insightful?!

 

[CLARiiON]

Not sure if posted already..

 

[simonhch]

So now we've got the supporters who don't care if we win the PL title or not but they must be entertained which is far more important.
Logic then says that why support United if they don't care if we win or not - go and support another team and be entertained - the moaning won't be missed - close the door on the way out.

That's a poor post to be honest. People have every right to want to be entertained. Winning without providing any entertainment is only slightly better than than being entertaining but never winning. Both approaches are ultimately unsustainable and bring understandable derision. Telling people to go off and support another team is ludicrous. Football doesn't survive without the passion of the fans, and something has to feed that passion. As we have endless examples of, winning and entertaining are not mutually exclusive. Furthermore, I don't see anyone here asking for the reincarnation of 1970 Brazil, I see lots of fans asking for some some passion, commitment and attacking intent on the pitch. Not much more. 7 goals in 9 matches is a return even George Graham would be ashamed of.

To the bolded point, is supporting United contingent on them winning? I don't follow that logic at all. I support them because I fell in love with the club as a little kid. The history, the aura, the methodology of the club. It was the stuff of dreams. Plenty of times we lost but I was proud of the team.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

That's a poor post to be honest. People have every right to want to be entertained. Winning without providing any entertainment is only slightly better than than being entertaining but never winning. Both approaches are ultimately unsustainable and bring understandable derision. Telling people to go off and support another team is ludicrous. Football doesn't survive without the passion of the fans, and something has to feed that passion. As we have endless examples of, winning and entertaining are not mutually exclusive. Furthermore, I don't see anyone here asking for the reincarnation of 1970 Brazil, I see lots of fans asking for some some passion, commitment and attacking intent on the pitch. Not much more. 7 goals in 9 matches is a return even George Graham would be ashamed of.

To the bolded point, is supporting United contingent on them winning? I don't follow that logic at all. I support them because I fell in love with the club as a little kid. The history, the aura, the methodology of the club. It was the stuff of dreams. Plenty of times we lost but I was proud of the team.

The poor posts are those saying they demand to be entertained because they deigned to give their support to United.
Of course we want to be entertained and to win as well. Problem is all those under 35 have been totally spoilt by the success this club has had.
I fell in love with this club too when I was a kid, 52 years ago, so I've seen everything that has happened to this club during that time.
To pretend that this club has always entertained is living in delusion land, history tends to remove from the memory the less entertaining moments the same way as this low-scoring period will be erased over the years if we start winning titles again.
You see other forums of other clubs and on the whole they support their team throughout whatever happens to the club, on here I cannot believe how much our so-called supporters criticize the club and ridicule other teams supporters for being deluded in supporting their team. Bunch of spoilt brats.