[Di Maria's angel]

They are good, because they are well coached and have people who do their scouting properly and make good purchases where they are needed.

The "we're not coached" hyperbole needs to stop. We are coached. There's no way Manchester United Football Club would hire someone who can't coach a football team. Our problem is that fact that we're a super negative team who'll allow the opposition to get ahead before playing football, let alone attacking football. Yesterday, we let Juventus play football without either stopping them or wanting to play ourselves - we bent over for them at home.

The reason Mourinho should go is not because he can't coach, it's because he won't coach in a nature that's symptomatic with this current time. Rio, who I normally think spouts rubbish, was spot on yesterday about us not being a progressive team and it leading to us falling behind all the top teams. Last nights match pretty much confirmed that there'll be no turn-around and we won't build on from the good performances displayed in the last two games. We reverted straight back to type when it's clear we're not even good at it.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

The "we're not coached" hyperbole needs to stop. We are coached. There's no way Manchester United Football Club would hire someone who can't coach a football team. Our problem is that fact that we're a super negative team who'll allow the opposition to get ahead before playing football, let alone attacking football. Yesterday, we let Juventus play football without either stopping them or wanting to play ourselves - we bent over for them at home.

The reason Mourinho should go is not because he can't coach, it's because he won't coach in a nature that's symptomatic with this current time. Rio, who I normally think spouts rubbish, was spot on yesterday about us not being a progressive team and it leading to us falling behind all the top teams. Last nights match pretty much confirmed that there'll be no turn-around and we won't build on from the good performances displayed in the last two games. We reverted straight back to type when it's clear we're not even good at it.

I said they are 'well' coached not that we aren't coached. I agree his coaching is not for this club.

 

[#07]

 

[BigRon1985]

2 steps forward 1 step back. And there was me hoping things could turn round - another false dawn bites the dust.

 

[RedNed77]

No real big reaction to the result, it’s becoming the norm, which is a worry.

Even the players look like they accept getting beat without feeling to bad about it.

On to the next match I guess.

This is probably my biggest worry, once that rot sets in its hard to shift. Jose's not installing a winning mentality amongst the team on any level anymore. Even he doesn't seem that arsed when we lose.

 

[EireRed_GS]

The most worrying thing about last night was the absolute lack of pressing or willingness to close down players in possession. Every time they had the ball our players took a few steps backwards and just let them move it and pass it freely without any challenge. not just Juve, but if you do that against any team in the PL, you will eventually be punished.

And the indecisiveness when on the ball is shocking at times. Most of them seem clueless as in what they should do with the ball once they receive it. The only player that played a good quick 'give it and go' game was Mata.

I know Juve are one of the top teams about right now, but they didnt even have to turn up the heat on us last night to win. They played some great football at times with their slick passing, but we just allowed them to alot of the time.

 

[Decomposing In Paris]

I actually thought we played pretty well against possibly the best team in Europe. On another night we might have gotten a draw. That shot from Pogba rebounding wide would have been huge had it gone in. Can't remember Juventus regularly carving us open, and they (deservedly but somewhat fortunately) scored when a deflected cross was well defended, but fell to their man rather than ours. They are the better team, but the game was still settled by fine margins...

 

[Matt007a]

Lindelof's performance was the only positive I could find last night. I know Juventus are better than we are, but the gulf between the two teams was bigger than it should have been. The scoreline flattered us really because they were in total control for the entire game.

Our only plan seemed to be to hit crosses into the box. I realise we've got a big lump in there but he's actually very average as a target man. When you look at other teams who employ these tactics, they will flood the box with 4/5/6 players, while we have one. Martial and Rashford were always arriving into the box late when they should have already been in there. No one from the midfield is looking to get on the end of those crosses.

I could actually forgive the one dimensional attacking plan if we did it properly! SAF loved a cross and there is nothing wrong with trying to create chances from wide positions like that. You've got to commit to the system though and put people in dangerous areas. I can only presume the players are too scared of being caught out on the break or that they've been told not to get forward for that reason.

 

[Spoony]

Did he look like he has settled in now?
Damn these impressions are disheartening. What are your thoughts Spoons? Depressed? Pessimistic? Optimistic?


Fecking hell poor woman... 90 mins?!

I think Mourinho's mentality is probably the problem. His teams play with fear and he's a coward. Sure Juve are a better side but why give them so much space??

 

[afrocentricity]

I think Mourinho's mentality is probably the problem. His teams play with fear and he's a coward. Sure Juve are a better side but why give them so much space??

I heard it was better 2nd half. Was it a slow start or did Juve just relax for the 2nd half knowing they'd won it. I'm curious, but not curious enjoy to watch and end up depressing myself.

Also, saw JM's mutv post match interview. I guess he's talking out of his arse there then?

He makes it sound like we were unlucky not to get a draw. Says we got outplayed in the 1st half but bossed the 2nd.

 

[JoaquinJoaquin]

Am I the only one that wasn't impressed with Juventus? Barring the first 30 minutes they were bang average, and a good attacking side would of put them to the sword.

 

[Spoony]

I heard it was better 2nd half. Was it a slow start or did Juve just relax for the 2nd half knowing they'd won it. I'm curious, but not curious enjoy to watch and end up depressing myself.

Also, saw JM's mutv post match interview. I guess he's talking out of his arse there then?

He makes it sound like we were unlucky not to get a draw. Says we got outplayed in the 1st half but bossed the 2nd.

Yeah, he's talking nonsense. As for the second half they started to back off and we huffed and puffed. Not much quality, to be honest.

 

[afrocentricity]

Yeah, he's talking nonsense. As for the second half they started to back off and we huffed and puffed. Not much quality, to be honest.

Feck

Cheers anyway....

 

[Reddy Rederson]

His post match conference is just ridiculous.

"They had [Gonzalo] Higuain, [Mario] Mandzukic, [Paulo] Dybala but they want more. They want Ronaldo. They had [Andrea] Barzagli, [Giorgio] Chiellini, [Daniele] Rugani, they are not happy, they want more," Mourinho said.
"They want Bonucci and they go for the best players in the world. So, big club with a big past but with also a big desire to have a big future."

He is mentioning Barzagli who is 37 years old or Rugani who was not even on the squad last night. It's the same as somebody saying for us, we had Pogba, Matic, Herrera, Fellaini and we wanted more, we went for Fred, which is an absolutely ridiculous claim.

Juventus beat us last night without even trying hard. I agree their team is a bit better in terms of quality, but not so much as last night showed. So, the difference here is just the coach. Juventus in Allegri have one who tries hard with what he has on the team, has a positive approach, there is movement all around the pitch, players know how to keep the ball, how to move with it. If you see there, you can see Ronaldo, Dybala, Pjanic, Chiellini, Sandro and Bonucci as world class players, but there are also Cuadrado, Matuidi, Bentacour, Cancelo who played just as great as the others. So, it's not just about individual quality of the players, but as a team they are years ahead of us.

In Mourinho, we have one who only moans and cares about him and his history all the time and doesn't care about the club at all, and after the game where he has much talent in the ground to try new ideas, he moans that he didn't have Fellaini for plan B. I'm sorry for all who defend Mourinho all the time, but I'd really like this nightmare to end. I know we failed for our last 3 choices, but we need a manager who is positive at the moment, but knows how to play, knows how to keep the ball, move with it, move without the ball, play as a team. Because at the moment, if Martial doesn't beat 2-3 players on the left, or Pogba doesn't do anything good individually, we are zero dangerous. I'd really go with Wenger until the end of the season just to see if we improve our game.

I love watching people twist the facts to suit their own bias. It’s really hilarious.

 

[Wheato]

I really like the Juventus set up. They don't buy the best players in the world (Except Ronaldo) for a certain position, but they buy one of the top 5, instead. And the strategy works. They don't go in for the likes of Tony Kroos, Messi or Varane, but they get in Pjanic, Costa, Sandro, Dybala, Matuidi, Bonnuci....players that most clubs can afford, but they don't have the pulling power, scouting network or world class negotiators like Juve have. We could learn a lot from them.

 

[saivet]

Am I the only one that wasn't impressed with Juventus? Barring the first 30 minutes they were bang average, and a good attacking side would of put them to the sword.

I wasn't that impressed with them but don't think they would get put to the sword because they can defend well and manage the game out. I thought going forward they had a lot of the ball in dangerous positions but didn't really cut us open. In the 2nd half, while they weren't impressive it felt like they took the foot off the gas rather than them being out of ideas.

 

[RedEM10]

Quick summary of last night...

Battered off the park by the better team in the first half. Lindelof had a good second half but him and shaw were dragged all over the place 1st half.

Won the ball in decent areas in the 2nd half but created absolutely nothing when in good positions

United have to be up there as one of the most uncreative teams in Europe

EDIT - Rashford and Lukaku were abysmal

 

[El Zoido]

Am I the only one that wasn't impressed with Juventus? Barring the first 30 minutes they were bang average, and a good attacking side would of put them to the sword.

They didn’t need to impress, they didn’t get out of first gear. I got the impression that had we scored after, say, 50 minutes, Juve would have stepped it up a level as required. It was such an easy game for them.

 

[Strachans Cigar]

I really like the Juventus set up. They don't buy the best players in the world (Except Ronaldo) for a certain position, but they buy one of the top 5, instead. And the strategy works. They don't go in for the likes of Tony Kroos, Messi or Varane, but they get in Pjanic, Costa, Sandro, Dybala, Matuidi, Bonnuci....players that most clubs can afford, but they don't have the pulling power, scouting network or world class negotiators like Juve have. We could learn a lot from them.

I get the jist of what you are saying but in terms of their ultimate aim ie winning the CL, it hasn’t worked actually. They had their arses handed to them in both CL finals they recently reached. Whether that changes with the “policy breaking” acquisition of Ronnie remains to be seen.

 

[BigWillprunier]

Hands off

Not interested in a swap deal +cash then?

 

[mancan92]

Am I the only one that wasn't impressed with Juventus? Barring the first 30 minutes they were bang average, and a good attacking side would of put them to the sword.

They didn't have to get out of 1st gear that's why after the first 30 when they realised that they didn't have to try that hard to win they dropped off.

 

[BusbyMalone]

Am I the only one that wasn't impressed with Juventus? Barring the first 30 minutes they were bang average, and a good attacking side would of put them to the sword.

They played really well for the majority of the match. Their defence was extremely solid (not that we tested them) and their transition from defence to attack was seamless. They dominated possession and was probably a little complacent due to how easy it was for them. Saying that, it's a good job we have De Gea 'cause it could've been a lot worse for us. The didn't really need to play any better than that. United were so meek and passive they did what they needed to do and got an away win (very easily) in the Champions League.

 

[Wheato]

I get the jist of what you are saying but in terms of their ultimate aim ie winning the CL, it hasn’t worked actually. They had their arses handed to them in both CL finals they recently reached. Whether that changes with the “policy breaking” acquisition of Ronnie remains to be seen.

I think the signing of Ronaldo is the cherry on the top. The one to get them over the line, like he did for us in 2008. When you look at their strategy, it is just so simple. Anyone can do it, but for some reason we end up collecting shiny things. Like Magpies. This is what Woodward does, he flies around collecting bottle tops and buttons.

 

[sunama]

Aye Lindelof looked a proper defender today

Imagine him next to one of those Juve CB's.

i said this in another thread: our younger CBs need to play alongside a very experienced, top class CB. Had Lindelof played alongside Rio (in his final years), he'd have learnt a lot and handed over the reigns. Perhaps this is what Jose was thinking when he wanted an older CB - he can make instant impact and also play alongside younger CBs, who can learn from the experienced CB and also make mistakes (the older CB, will cover for those mistakes when they happen).

 

[sunama]

If this is the response we get losing 1-0 to one of the top teams in europe then our fans are fecking deluded.

This I agree with.

In saying that, I do feel that we didn't have anything to lose and could've thrown the kitchen sink at them, in the 2nd half.
If we lose 3-0, then so be it, but to lose so meekly was disappointing.

I remember back when Fergie was still trying to get to grips with CL level of competition. We got spanked by Barca, I think it was. I think even Galatasaray may have drawn/beaten us. At this time, we were dominating the league. So, we need to try and do exactly that - focus on being a title contender, after which, we can focus on elevating our performance levels even higher, to compete for the CL.

The thing which I find difficult to take is that after 8 games, we are 10th in the league. Even Moyes had us in 7th (and falling, but got fired before we could go any lower).
Hopefully we will win our next few EPL fixtures, because at the moment, for me, that's what matters most.

 

[Stacks]

i said this in another thread: our younger CBs need to play alongside a very experienced, top class CB. Had Lindelof played alongside Rio (in his final years), he'd have learnt a lot and handed over the reigns. Perhaps this is what Jose was thinking when he wanted an older CB - he can make instant impact and also play alongside younger CBs, who can learn from the experienced CB and also make mistakes (the older CB, will cover for those mistakes when they happen).

He wanted Macguire who is the same age. He also let Van Dijk go to rivals so I feel its all a bit scattergun with Jose

 

[walkinhop]

Did he look like he has settled in now?
Damn these impressions are disheartening. What are your thoughts Spoons? Depressed? Pessimistic? Optimistic?


Fecking hell poor woman... 90 mins?!

Poor woman? The fricking tease learned some strange sensual method that stops right before...you know. The poor me.

 

[Red00012]

Looks like it’s going to come down to Valencia needing to beat us on match day 6. I’m starting to wonder are we better off in the Europa league and try to win it as I don’t fancy our top 4 chances this season.

 

[NickSantigo]

Did he look like he has settled in now?
Damn these impressions are disheartening. What are your thoughts Spoons? Depressed? Pessimistic? Optimistic?


Fecking hell poor woman... 90 mins?!

He did really well considering how fluid the Juve team were. He had to deal with Ronaldo, Dybala, etc. all at different stages in the game.
i felt he read the danger well and looked composed on the ball.

Was a big night for him and he looked solid imo

 

[afrocentricity]

Was a big night for him and he looked solid imo

Silver linings eh

Hope its pivotal for him.

Poor woman? The fricking tease learned some strange sensual method that stops right before...you know. The poor me.

this guy...

 

[Nate Dogg]

I have been watching Utd for years and in my opinion this is the worst i have seen since the 80's, it is plain to see the problem is more than Mourinho but how has he come to this, is it Woody or simply Mourinho?

 

[Needham]

Oh for god's sake

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Oh for god's sake

Nah! Not blaming him for this.

 

[Lash]

It's gotta be both. Mourinho didn't get who he wanted, or any alternatives. That may be because they were unrealistic, but Ed allowed that to happened and told him to just get on with it. Now we're surprised it hasn't worked out.

 

[Zoo]

Yay another thread.

 

[Coxy]

Mourinho - Sarri and Emery have produced far more entertaining (and winning) football in a far shorter timeframe. With less resources too.

 

[Stacks]

they only beat us 1-0 for Christ sake and didn't have many other clear cut chances. you would've thought we were trashed 4-1

 

[Darkhorsez]

Oh for god's sake

Ha ha ! This place is pure entertainment these days!

 

[ErranMorad]

Didn't think Smalling was that bad. Agree on the haircut, though.

 

[RedSky]

Didn't think Smalling was that bad. Agree on the haircut, though.

I agree, although his haircut is growing on me.