PL L FA Premier League

Manchester United 1:3 Brighton & Hove Albion

Post-match discussion


Sun, 19 January 2025

Pretty much.
Estupinian, their keeper, Pedro, Minteh, Mitoma, Welbeck all start for us. Baleba is in with a shout too. They probably make half of what our players do too.
Years of mismanagement has led us to this.

Wasn't their keeper linked heavily with us before he joined them?
 
talking about the refs won't change the fact that we have a set of shit players, who not only lack the quality, but they also lack the work rate and desire to play and compete, even if the ref was giving us everything and denying the oppo everything, we would still lose this game 10 times out of 10.

so, let's stop this nonsense complaining about the ref, and just accept our players are quite shit.

few posters said that many players in every PL team will walk into our team, and I kinda agree.

Even Amad who has been brilliant, he can't do much on his own and his performances will dip soon enough from overplaying him and over-reliance on him.


On Amorim, I admire his insistence on trying to make it work with his style, but he has choices now: -

- Insist on his style but he has to punish the underperformers, Onana for example should be benched at least 5 games, Mainoo too, Dalot and Maz as well, we don't have a decent bench, but players must suffer being benched and watching the likes of Malacia or Lindelof or Cas play, bring in more youth, they ain't ready but I guarantee you they won't be worse than the seniors, if we are going to lose games anyways, just play the youth, and I know that's suicidal but the senior players have to know that the club (Amorim & the management) is ready to discard them and play kids ahead of them.

- Or change his system and accept the fact that the players won't be able to adapt.
 
talking about the refs won't change the fact that we have a set of shit players, who not only lack the quality, but they also lack the work rate and desire to play and compete, even if the ref was giving us everything and denying the oppo everything, we would still lose this game 10 times out of 10.

so, let's stop this nonsense complaining about the ref, and just accept our players are quite shit.
Game wasn’t completely one sided. So had the ref sent the Brighton off just before 13 minutes and not allowed them to constantly time waste, as in done his job, I’d say we’d have been looking at a different result.
If you’re going to ignore constant errors by refs, that don’t seem to be across the board, nor consistent, then the players shouldn’t be blamed for getting it wrong either? As all factors add up to results, not the ones you wish to acknowledge.
 
Game wasn’t completely one sided. So had the ref sent the Brighton off just before 13 minutes and not allowed them to constantly time waste, as in done his job, I’d say we’d have been looking at a different result.
If you’re going to ignore constant errors by refs, that don’t seem to be across the board, nor consistent, then the players shouldn’t be blamed for getting it wrong either? As all factors add up to results, not the ones you wish to acknowledge.

Lame excuse, we deserve less than 26 points too
 
Lame excuse, we deserve less than 26 points too
Carry on the ignoring of factors. I’ll take it you expect a full rebuild and an entire new team to be brought it :boring:, only then would you take there’s some bias in refs that’s going unchallenged.
 
Game wasn’t completely one sided. So had the ref sent the Brighton off just before 13 minutes and not allowed them to constantly time waste, as in done his job, I’d say we’d have been looking at a different result.
If you’re going to ignore constant errors by refs, that don’t seem to be across the board, nor consistent, then the players shouldn’t be blamed for getting it wrong either? As all factors add up to results, not the ones you wish to acknowledge.
The moaning about refs on here is becoming excessive. This forum is resembling a certain scouse forum that used to be mocked relentlessly for their paranoid conspiracy nonsense.

If we need to rely on the opposition constantly having players sent off, or handing us penalties for us to have any chance if winning, then who gives a shit. We have bigger problems than crap refs
 
The moaning about refs on here is becoming excessive. This forum is resembling a certain scouse forum that used to be mocked relentlessly for their paranoid conspiracy nonsense.

If we need to rely on the opposition constantly having players sent off, or handing us penalties for us to have any chance if winning, then who gives a shit. We have bigger problems than crap refs

Thank you
 
The moaning about refs on here is becoming excessive. This forum is resembling a certain scouse forum that used to be mocked relentlessly for their paranoid conspiracy nonsense.

If we need to rely on the opposition constantly having players sent off, or handing us penalties for us to have any chance if winning, then who gives a shit. We have bigger problems than crap refs
That tackle on Dalot was 100% a red card. No one is denying that there aren’t other factors. But people shouldn’t be disregarding a factor, then to lump it all onto the players.
The system won’t work as we don’t have the players to suit it. We have players who being pegged into a position week after week, that they’re unable to adapt to.
Some of the players are not that required standard.
The refs are cnuts to United.
The ownership doesn’t appear to have a plan.
The Glazers have financially fecked the club up.
All of these factors count.
 
Ref wasn’t very helpful in this game, think we had another pen he missed, then there’s this tackle, which is 2 footed and dangerous.
Poor performance by the players, but our pens have to be an assignation attempts and our players get cards for anything, the our opponents get away with some shockers.

That's true but it's somewhat beside the point. The referee didn't will our goalkeepers' and defenders' numerous blunders in this match.
 
Game wasn’t completely one sided. So had the ref sent the Brighton off just before 13 minutes and not allowed them to constantly time waste, as in done his job, I’d say we’d have been looking at a different result.
If you’re going to ignore constant errors by refs, that don’t seem to be across the board, nor consistent, then the players shouldn’t be blamed for getting it wrong either? As all factors add up to results, not the ones you wish to acknowledge.
The ref didn't cause Onana's hawler, nor he made Maz and the entire backline lose their focus and allow Mitoma freely run to tee up Minteh, nor he was the reason that Ayari run through our midfield basically unchallenged until he passed to Minteh who then crossed unchallenged to Mitoma who just squeezed the ball in, none of that was on the refs, and none of our players not being able to create a chance to test the keeper was because the ref made dodgy calls, we still got the pen and the goal disallowed in our favor so the refs including VAR werent that bad, if we are in a title challenge or a top 4 challenge and some ref made bad calls that went against us I'll give you that, but our players are too shit for refs to impact the game, so what if we Minteh was sent off in min 13? We were down 1 nil, what makes think we would have turned it around? Brighton could have sat deep after that and not attempt to play from the back, we got the pen because they were too confident in their playing from the back that we managed to press them and get a pen from that, otherwise we didn't create shit.
 
The moaning about refs on here is becoming excessive. This forum is resembling a certain scouse forum that used to be mocked relentlessly for their paranoid conspiracy nonsense.

If we need to rely on the opposition constantly having players sent off, or handing us penalties for us to have any chance if winning, then who gives a shit. We have bigger problems than crap refs


Consistency of refereeing is what people have issues with. A throat grab one game gets you a straight red and the next not even a 2nd look of VAR. Yes cards change games.

I agree we have bigger problems but the officiating changing like the weather is not helping either.
 
sick and tired of Bruno trying through balls which are unreasonable to come off given the players we have, let alone the fact he himself isn't successful enough with it. I can understand a maestro given free license to do so in a team which plays a certain style that have the capabilities to win the ball back immediately...we are certainly not one of them teams and bruno is definitely not a maestro. for the 2nd goal he yet again gives up possession with a stupid attempt again, and to be honest with the amount of times he does I'm surprised we aren't dominated more
 
Brighton are a great to understand that scope of our problems because they have everything we don’t. They have technically sound players all over the pitch, have been built with a vision in mind over years and physically they are really terrific. Watching our players struggle to keep up with them physically in particular really shows us up imo.

On that front, Ugarte - Bruno - Mainoo combo is too slow and only one of them has some real strength. Maguire and De Ligt have the same weakness in that neither has much pace. Martinez isn’t the most mobile or tall. Wingbacks are poor in every sense. Strikers offer nothing.

That’s one thing to get right in the summer. Technically good players but not physical slouches. We spent 80m on Antony who has no physicality to offer as well.
 
We were awful, but feck that. Minteh should have been off for that two footed off the ground from behind tackle on Dalot.

The higher ups should file a complain or at least say something about the state of refereeing.
 
Brighton are a great to understand that scope of our problems because they have everything we don’t. They have technically sound players all over the pitch, have been built with a vision in mind over years and physically they are really terrific. Watching our players struggle to keep up with them physically in particular really shows us up imo.

On that front, Ugarte - Bruno - Mainoo combo is too slow and only one of them has some real strength. Maguire and De Ligt have the same weakness in that neither has much pace. Martinez isn’t the most mobile or tall. Wingbacks are poor in every sense. Strikers offer nothing.

That’s one thing to get right in the summer. Technically good players but not physical slouches. We spent 80m on Antony who has no physicality to offer as well.

Yes this is a glaring issue in most matches, and particularly evident when we play the 'lesser' teams. We don't compete well in most areas of the pitch. All the United teams I grew up with did, even those that were a bit limited in other ways (in the 80s).
 
Clearly a Wummer, also completely agree with others who say we are now those game raisers we used to hate facing in our pomp
I really don't think it's a case of being game raisers.

It's just that playing the bigger teams, and sitting in, passing sideways and trying to score from the odd chance created is easier. It suits these players.

I'd also say that sometimes the teams lower down the division are more direct and we don't handle that well.

Southampton were far more direct and aggressive than Arsenal or City were.
 
Brighton are a great to understand that scope of our problems because they have everything we don’t. They have technically sound players all over the pitch, have been built with a vision in mind over years and physically they are really terrific. Watching our players struggle to keep up with them physically in particular really shows us up imo.

On that front, Ugarte - Bruno - Mainoo combo is too slow and only one of them has some real strength. Maguire and De Ligt have the same weakness in that neither has much pace. Martinez isn’t the most mobile or tall. Wingbacks are poor in every sense. Strikers offer nothing.

That’s one thing to get right in the summer. Technically good players but not physical slouches. We spent 80m on Antony who has no physicality to offer as well.
Totally agree with this. I’ve been thinking this since we opted against Mane and since then have gone for players like Sancho or Antony who offer limited pace or strength.

We need the types of players who have some innate strength like Mane, Salah etc.

Personally I think if we are hard up for cash we should be looking at Kuhn or Maeda at Celtic.
 
It's just that playing the bigger teams, and sitting in, passing sideways and trying to score from the odd chance created is easier. It suits these players.

Exactly. With Eriks team focused on counter attacking, (in theory) we could get away with having slow defenders and utilising our pacy winger in transitions. Now when we're trying to dominate possession, the slow defenders/CM's are easily caught upfield and are unable to track back fast enough. Also, the technical abilities needed to tear apart a low block is pretty much non existent apart from Bruno and Amad. Same problem when we're trying to play out from the back. The quality just isn't there.

Even though our squad is insanely expensive, being in 13th position seems about right. The players just aren't good enough.
 
Amazed to see so many people blaming the referees. Look in house. We are the issue, not external factors.
 
It's a bit of both though, right? We're just too shit to overcome any kind of external hindrances placed on top of our internal ones
Every club feels harshly treated by referees. You're right that it impacts good teams less as they are able to win despite the odd poor decision etc. I just think moaning about the odd decision is a bit of an excuse and let's the players/club off the hook.

We should have the quality, professional and resilience to perform regardless of a referee.
 
Looking at the goals, you can to ask yourself what the vision is.

First goal, route one long ball into a fast forward versus a slow defender. How are we not mitigating that? Surely we knew that ball and those areas outside the wide CBs would get spammed with diagonal balls all game? Either our line needs to be deeper (sensible especially playing Maguire and De Ligt) or we need a much higher/aggressive press to make those balls much harder (not really an option with Sloth Zirkzee up top, and Hojlund works hard but gasses after about 45mins and has been poor)

Second goal - just awful. Mainoo/Yoro mark the same dude. That's just ridiculous. Ugarte ends up with two and one of them just dribbles straight past him. Then they put in a good cross and we don't deal with it.

Third - howler, plain and simple from Onana.

The worry in all this is where is the goal threat? We scored a penalty that came from a woeful keeper pas sunder minimal pressure, it's not like that is something we can rely on. That was our single shot on target from memory. ETH went kamikaze to at least give some threat and then we gambled on having no real structure but now we have the same big issues (teams can go direct or simply run through us) but without nay real threat up top.
 
I have in the past joked with my friends that at times, with our players, you would think the lack of understanding of each others game was because they don't all train on the same pitch!

Now I am beginning to think that joke may indeed be true. Given there are new players, given they are trying to adapt to a new system and new manager etc. there is still a woeful lack of understanding of each others game; the way players turn, the way they square up or half turn to receive the ball, the delay in making a simple pass, or one touch pass, if you prefer, all indicates a lack of understanding or trust in each other.

Yesterday the number of times the ball was received or won and then 'carried' by players who only one 1 in 3 times did they anticipate what they were going to do with it. True, 'one touch' passing isn't always appropriate, but when the opportunity to do so is passed up so often, the fluidity of movement/transitions etc. are denied.

Sometimes our collective movement is wonderful, entertaining and successful; however you can count on one hand how many times such passages of play occur in a game.
Yesterday it was all coming from Brighton, who in particular moved the ball from back to front with alarming speed.

Players maybe struggling coming to terms with a new manager, a new system etc. but there should be a much better understanding of each others movements and capabilities.

Long, long way to go Ruben.
 
I’m sorry for Onana. But he is too flaky. Even his distribution is not that great. We need a decent keeper for a start. None of our keepers are good enough
 
Look no one in red played that well. It was a weirdly switched off performance. Ref was poor too. But United lost by two goals jaded them on a plate by Onana.
 
I don't think we need to overcomplicate this.
Yes we are underperforming but Brighton have about 6 players that would start for us, including Welbeck.
Until that changes, we aren't going anywhere.
Who else do you see from their squad starting for us?
 
Who else do you see from their squad starting for us?
Estupinan would make a great LWB, Baleba would do wonders for your midfield, I think he has a better passing game than Ugarte but is just as good at breaking up play and protecting the ball, Poster mentions Welbeck (though I'm unsure about that one).

Verbruggen would be an improvement on Onana when it comes to distribution, but maybe not for shot stopping (Onana has made some world class saves this season) and Solly March at right wing back would be an improvement on Dalot.
 
Pretty much.
Estupinian, their keeper, Pedro, Minteh, Mitoma, Welbeck all start for us. Baleba is in with a shout too. They probably make half of what our players do too.
Years of mismanagement has led us to this.
It's easy to say that but is Estupinian really better than Mazraoui or Dalot? Or significantly better at least?

Mitoma is talked up but has 8 goals and 7 assists in his last 50 PL appearances, so it's not clear that he's an upgrade on Garnacho or Amad. Amad has 6 goals and 6 assists this season in 20 games. Garnacho has 10 goals and 5 assists in his last 50 PL games and is much younger.

Minteh has 3 goals and 2 assists this season (1 goal, 1 assist yesterday)...again, are these players clear upgrades on what we have? I'm not sure...and we're talking about Brighton's best players here.

I still go back to our problems being tactical. If we set up next season in a 5-3-2 or a 5-2-3-1 low to middle block, and played counter attacking football, I think we'd coke 6th+...but what's the point in doing that, really?
 
It's easy to say that but is Estupinian really better than Mazraoui or Dalot? Or significantly better at least?

Mitoma is talked up but has 8 goals and 7 assists in his last 50 PL appearances, so it's not clear that he's an upgrade on Garnacho or Amad. Amad has 6 goals and 6 assists this season in 20 games. Garnacho has 10 goals and 5 assists in his last 50 PL games and is much younger.

Minteh has 3 goals and 2 assists this season (1 goal, 1 assist yesterday)...again, are these players clear upgrades on what we have? I'm not sure...and we're talking about Brighton's best players here.

I still go back to our problems being tactical. If we set up next season in a 5-3-2 or a 5-2-3-1 low to middle block, and played counter attacking football, I think we'd coke 6th+...but what's the point in doing that, really?
I'm not sure than any of the Brighton players are any better than ours. If they came to United, they'd face the same problems as our current players and would struggle. If someone like Mazraoui went to Brighton, he'd thrive. If the Antony of August 2022 went to Brighton/Bournemouth and was thriving now in a coherent strategy, you'd have people on here debating whether we should sign him.

The issues go so far beyond the ability of individual players. We've had genuine world class (or at least potentially world class) players over the last 12 years who have all struggled to reach the top of their game.

I genuinely think the club is cursed. It's the place where hope and ambition go to die. Many want a complete rebuild but that doesn't solve anything. It just invites another load of unsuspecting players to be made scapegoats for a fanbase that thinks we have a god-given right to be challenging for the title.
 
Estupinan would make a great LWB, Baleba would do wonders for your midfield, I think he has a better passing game than Ugarte but is just as good at breaking up play and protecting the ball, Poster mentions Welbeck (though I'm unsure about that one).

Verbruggen would be an improvement on Onana when it comes to distribution, but maybe not for shot stopping (Onana has made some world class saves this season) and Solly March at right wing back would be an improvement on Dalot.

Welbeck and the whole post is exaggerated of course but the point is, there's not much difference in quality between the two teams.
I don't understand why some people are offended.
 
I'm not sure than any of the Brighton players are any better than ours. If they came to United, they'd face the same problems as our current players and would struggle. If someone like Mazraoui went to Brighton, he'd thrive. If the Antony of August 2022 went to Brighton/Bournemouth and was thriving now in a coherent strategy, you'd have people on here debating whether we should sign him.

The issues go so far beyond the ability of individual players. We've had genuine world class (or at least potentially world class) players over the last 12 years who have all struggled to reach the top of their game.

I genuinely think the club is cursed. It's the place where hope and ambition go to die. Many want a complete rebuild but that doesn't solve anything. It just invites another load of unsuspecting players to be made scapegoats for a fanbase that thinks we have a god-given right to be challenging for the title.
I agree 100% with the first two paragraphs. I don't agree that we are 'cursed', we have been about as badly run as any organisation can feasibly be run for a decade+ and are paying the price.

The point on Antony is spot on. We massively, massively overpaid. Fine. We all accept that. However, he's about on a level with someone like Mitoma...the difference is Mitoma plays in a very well-run, well-coached, mid-table counter-punching side...and his stats are still basically mediocre.

This goes well beyond individuals, or even a collection of individuals. It's ALL about a total lack of structure, planning and competent coaching. I really think EtH has set up back three seasons with his crackpot football and obsession with slow, doddery, Dutch football
 
Welbeck and the whole post is exaggerated of course but the point is, there's not much difference in quality between the two teams.
I don't understand why some people are offended.
People aren't offended, they're pointing out the differences in expectation / scrutiny that comes with playing for United, the differences in style and the difference in playing for a well-coached team vs one in chaos.

You responded to a poster who claimed Baleba was better than Ugarte. If we took Baleba tomorrow he would absolutely flounder. We talk about Ugarte being limited on the ball, he's levels above Baleba from the limited amount I have seen. Stick Ugarte in Brighton's midfield and they would see the difference.

I call this the "Morgan Schneiderlin effect". Decent player in solid system at 'mid' club completely out of his depth when asked to do more than just break up play and knock it sideways, with 76,000 howling at him and an opposition revelling in their big day out at OT, fighting like their lives depend on it
 
People aren't offended, they're pointing out the differences in expectation / scrutiny that comes with playing for United, the differences in style and the difference in playing for a well-coached team vs one in chaos.

You responded to a poster who claimed Baleba was better than Ugarte. If we took Baleba tomorrow he would absolutely flounder. We talk about Ugarte being limited on the ball, he's levels above Baleba from the limited amount I have seen. Stick Ugarte in Brighton's midfield and they would see the difference.

I call this the "Morgan Schneiderlin effect". Decent player in solid system at 'mid' club completely out of his depth when asked to do more than just break up play and knock it sideways, with 76,000 howling at him and an opposition revelling in their big day out at OT, fighting like their lives depend on it

Baleba isn't better than Ugarte, Baleba would feature heavily for us.
The point I am making is that, there isn't much difference in quality.
I agree with the well coached vs chaos. My point is that a lot of our players are mid-table players and shouldn't be playing for a top team. Losing to Brighton isn't that surprising.
 
Baleba isn't better than Ugarte, Baleba would feature heavily for us.
The point I am making is that, there isn't much difference in quality.
I agree with the well coached vs chaos. My point is that a lot of our players are mid-table players and shouldn't be playing for a top team. Losing to Brighton isn't that surprising.
I don't disagree with your general point but the fact remains, and the point I keep making is, that our players are at least as good as the likes of Forest, Bournemouth, Brighton etc...but are currently completely and utterly lost as to what they're supposed to be doing on the pitch.

I was at the game yesterday, besides the NE quadrant, so had a great view of how the two teams shaped up tactically. Our WBs were basically doing nothing. Like other teams this season, Brighton kept two wingers high and wide to pin our WBs, which essentially left us with a back 5*

There were also at least three occasions that one of the 10s made a great 'inside out' run and would have been in on goal with a relatively competent pass (see Brighton opener) but the pass wasn't spotted and the chance was gone.

We look like 9 individuals + two WBs who are doing absolutely nothing - neither defending nor attacking.

*I believe the counter to this should that the CBs squeeze higher into midfield because we can still have a numerical advantage (4 vs 3) at the back OR we could, with elite defenders, go man for man and have two additional players push forward, stop the long balls at source or at the very least force them to be rushed / inaccurate.

Point being...I don't think there are systematic flaws with this system. I think other teams can target the weaknesses caused by our uncertainty and chaos.
 
People here are asking why is there no intensity? I've already said this before - fatigue is a major factor. 3 games in 7 days, where one of which was played with 10 men in a match that went to extra time, takes a huge toll in recovery and game focus. I already knew the Brighton game was going to be a more difficult one than Southampton simply because of the shorter rest period for players who already pretty exhausted. I was hoping we would win but that didn't happen. Brighton and Southampton were not hampered by the same issues and thus a lot fresher. I've noticed that some people are very dismissive when it comes to fatigue and recovery as a factor because the need to blame is very soothing and cathartic. Fatigue is a reality which we cannot deny. I'm not saying that there is no blame to allocate but temper that with these relevant factors.

This is not an excuse, but a factor used as context. Perhaps they should have done more to mitigate the situation with the fatigue and help with recovery time. There are definitely other issues here that resulted in the loss. However, I just feel this context is needed to be considered if people are going to wantonly hurl insults at the players, the manager and the system. The system works - it has been shown to be a positive aspect especially recently when the players were fresh, and it did show they were getting used to it pretty well. Perhaps fitness is an element that they need to look into further. We have had a setback and most here are already doom mongering to the extreme and slapping blame on everything. Were people expecting us to win every single game since the Arsenal one? Are we going to implode any time that happens? We've had setbacks and losses before, even during SAFs era and we've overcome. This not going back to the drawing board situation. This is just one game. This week was an anomaly in terms of the number of games in a week, reduced men in extra time, and shorter rest periods. Let's see what a regular week holds in the future and how the players respond where we can assess better and if the players really need to take accountability for anything. For now, I think and hope they will do better from this point on.
Good post. I hadn’t realized that we’ve had 3 matches in 7 days. Definitely a factor. I saw quite a bit of effort, but gone are the days when we could stomp mid and lower table teams through sheer talent.

I’m actually not too interested in going all out for the FA cup… We need rest. Our squad of trusted players goes, what, 14 deep? Prioritize the league and Europa and play the kids in the FA Cup.

Depressing loss for sure
 

Man of the Match

Provisional results
Amad Diallo image Amad Diallo 51% of 171 votes

Runners-up

Player Ratings

Provisional results
4.2 Total Average Rating

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Compiled from 212 ratings.

Score Predictions

96,43,22
  • Man Utd win
  • Brighton win
  • Draw

Detailed Results

  • 40% Man Utd 2:1 Brighton
  • 13% Man Utd 1:2 Brighton
  • 10% Man Utd 2:0 Brighton
  • 7% Man Utd 1:1 Brighton
  • 6% Man Utd 2:2 Brighton
  • 5% Man Utd 0:2 Brighton
  • 5% Man Utd 1:3 Brighton
  • 4% Man Utd 1:0 Brighton
  • 2% Man Utd 3:2 Brighton
  • 2% Man Utd 0:3 Brighton
  • 2% Man Utd 3:1 Brighton
  • 1% Man Utd 2:3 Brighton
  • 1% Man Utd 0:1 Brighton
  • 1% Man Utd 3:3 Brighton
  • 1% Man Utd 4:1 Brighton
  • 1% Man Utd 4:2 Brighton
Compiled from 161 predictions.
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Match Stats

  1. Man Utd
  2. Brighton
Overall possession
51.2% 48.8%
Shots
10 6
Shots on target
1 3
Total touches in the box
28 26
Fouls
13 12
Corners
4 2

Referee

Peter Bankes