[DRJosh]

Would ETH survive to make it to December? Shocking performance at the end

 

[Woziak]

He does? What's his excuse for the first goal?

He made a mistake, my point De Ligt needs time to assimilate to the EPL. In My humble opinion is just a slightly better version of Maguire, a little quicker, strong much better on the ball not as physical however every. Defensive mistake right now is highlighted at the club due to our in ability to score goals and take chances.

We look so light up front, Zirkzee will be a good option but he’s definitely not an elite number 9, much more a number 10 and nor is Rasmus, they are both developing young strikers and the club desperately needs a true experienced number 9 that both younger players can learn from.

All the fans who think this club will score 70-80 Pl goals with our current striking options in the next 36 PL games are living in the same fantasy land as ETH.

 

[Josep Dowling]

3 unmarked Brighton players at the back post in the 95th minute. Have can you be that bad at defending?

Another simple cross field ball leading to a tap in for Welbeck.

We can’t keep defending like amateurs. Maguire will get flack but Martinez is just as inept at defending. Was no where to be seen in the first goal.

 

[Oranges038]

3 unmarked Brighton players at the back post in the 95th minute. Have can you be that bad at defending?

Another simple cross field ball leading to a tap in for Welbeck.

We can’t keep defending like amateurs. Maguire will get flack but Martinez is just as inept at defending. Was no where to be seen in the first goal.

On the first goal, I don't see how anyone can blame Martinez at all, Maguire just let the ball go right across the box and then positions himself so badly to cut out the second cross. It was shocking defending.

 

[Litch]

I think the problem is we are still playing catch up given we are starting from a deficit. This league is relentless and mistakes are punished if you don't put teams away sometimes even by half time.

 

[Red & White]

Same old. New players, new ‘positive’ feeling. Doesn’t matter. League loss to Brighton? Check. Early first league loss? Check.

 

[Woziak]

We are definitely playing better than last season already, I think it's unfair to suggest otherwise. The pressing is on another level and we are passing the ball better in tight spaces, as well as getting into dangerous positions in the final 3rd. I think my biggest issue is that I can't see where the goals are coming from. It's already looking nailed on for another low (if not negative) goal difference at the end of the season. It's such a strange feeling because there's so much talent on paper - it just doesn't translate.

Very disappointed with the result today. The performance didn't resemble us last season, but the way we lost the game sure did.

It doesn’t translate because currently we do not have a striker that will win you games and score 20+ PL goals. Its also an issue that Dutch coaches, especially those that manage Man United in the EPL are obsessed with controlling the game and not bombarding the opponents goals to try and win by more than 1 goal.

LVG team didn’t eyy score 50 Goal one season, the irony is that Slott will go straight into Liverpool and they’ll score 80+ goal this season.

 

[Lash]

FFS

we have Garna, Amad, Rashford (even out of form), Hojlund (he wont be injured forever), Zirkzee, Antony, maybe even Sancho - and you think Brighton beat us because we don't have attacking options? Who the feck do they have that is better in attack?

How about we have been fecking around with signing DMF for months and now 19yo Mainoo has to cover for Casemiro defensively for 90 minites, getting completely exhausted by minute 70? Or that we have no left back? Or that Ten Hag decided to start Maguire who cost us first goal?

We are not talkiny what we need to win the league here, we are talking about why are we still getting beat by fecking Brighton and its inexperienced manager

Much as I want Erik to succeed, this game is on him and his idiotic stubborn fixations. It is also on INEOS for not filling glaring holes in midfield and LB on time

Simple as that

I said for the season. Half those players you listed weren't available, fully fit, or were completely out of favour for Brighton. It's hard to blame our attack based on the above, but if we have lofty aspirations, the options simply have to be better.

I think we should suck it up and overpay a bit for Ugarte to be honest, I don't blame Ten Hag for that and similarly not buying a LB. Maybe you can blame Ten hag on Maguire, but I thought he was good against Fulham, so there was no need to drop him.

We could have easily been walking away with 3 points were it not for a very unlucky offside. Obviously I'm bitterly disappointed to losing, but I think with additions that are likely and some improved attacking options (Hojlund back from Injury, Zirkzee fully fit and by some miracle Rashford gets back to some old form), I have more hope we'll be scoring more. Last season I just didn't see where the goals were coming from for large parts of the season.

I think Erik obviously has the ultimate responsibility, but I don't see some major gaffe he did based on how we performed last game and what he had available to him.

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

how is having two shots on target outplaying anyone?

“Outplayed them and looked threatening lots”

Very poor and lazy English on my part, but I meant we outplayed them for periods.

Brighton away is a tough fixture. They’ll have one of the best home records in the league this year.

 

[Jeffthered]

Managed to watch a fair bit of this. And unfortunately it seems that not so much ha changed. It's coaching, or a lack of.

We have no playing pattern or style. Both the Fulham match, and this game, v v open matches. We concede too many chances because we cannot control a game. We cannot.

And players pick up on this. We have v good players, looking unsure about what their actual role is?

Rashford : Goal-scorer? Winger? All-round forward? Creator? Someone who keeps possession?
Mainoo: a ball-winner? Passer? Is he the person to get us to play and set our tempo? Should he also be a constant threat in the last-third?
Mount: What exactly is expected from him? (Too many questions here..)

All of this makes it all v unfair on these players.

Why substitute your Centre Half? I've never, ever known a top, successful team, who changes centre-half after an hour. Never. Could someone tell me how we benefit from this?

ETH loves the attention and title. Loves it. But he's out of his depth at a club like ours.

 

[Buster15]

Would ETH survive to make it to December? Shocking performance at the end

There are certain things that you can lay the blame on the coach.
But I don't think you could reasonably say that the total lack of positional awareness for the last goal was Ten Hag fault.
That was down to the players lack of concentration and games management.

Having said that. I am not Ten Hag biggest fan.
Just trying to be fair.

 

[flameinthesun]

Would ETH survive to make it to December? Shocking performance at the end

Tbf despite being absolutely angry at the result yesterday it is only 2 games in (3 including the community shield). Yeah we've seen some old patterns emerge but we've also seen some improvements. I think what will end up being the deciding factor on Ten Hag is whether the team can pick up any consistency. We are capable of beating any team as shown over Ten Hag's time here but we are also capable to doing what we did against Brighton. If he manages to get consistent performances out of the team he will be fine.

 

[Ahmer Baig]

What was the need to bring McT?

 

[ThanksBoss26]

What was the need to bring McT?

Sure it's been said many times already in here without having looked back but that was an abysmal substitution.

 

[NewGlory]

I said for the season. Half those players you listed weren't available, fully fit, or were completely out of favour for Brighton. It's hard to blame our attack based on the above, but if we have lofty aspirations, the options simply have to be better.

I think we should suck it up and overpay a bit for Ugarte to be honest, I don't blame Ten Hag for that and similarly not buying a LB. Maybe you can blame Ten hag on Maguire, but I thought he was good against Fulham, so there was no need to drop him.

We could have easily been walking away with 3 points were it not for a very unlucky offside. Obviously I'm bitterly disappointed to losing, but I think with additions that are likely and some improved attacking options (Hojlund back from Injury, Zirkzee fully fit and by some miracle Rashford gets back to some old form), I have more hope we'll be scoring more. Last season I just didn't see where the goals were coming from for large parts of the season.

I think Erik obviously has the ultimate responsibility, but I don't see some major gaffe he did based on how we performed last game and what he had available to him.

Well...

Ten Hag did have all the reason to not start Maguire. Let me give you some:

1. Every fan who has watched Maguire knows that he can only play low block and will make mistakes in critical moments. He made two very big ones yesterday, one cost us a goal and the other - Dalot miraculously kicked the ball off the goal line, otherwise it was going in because of Maguire feckup. And Erik has had him for two years, he should know what Maguire is. Why else did we prioritize buying not just one but two CBs - De Ligt and Yoro.

2. Here is a HUGE one:

Mistakes aside, Maguire's inability to play high line means we need to stack the midfield to avoid huge gap in midfield when pressing, like we had last season. This is why Ten Hag was playing both Mount and Bruno and no striker, which saved midfield but left us toothless in being able to score goals.

Playing Maguire and Casemiro was the tactical disaster yesterday, causing a chain of other decisions that ended being our doom. Casemiro is INEOS fault for dragging out Ugarte transfer, but Maguire is all on Erik.

 

[Jacob]

We can afford roughly 7 losses in the league if we want to achieve top 4. If we lose away to all top 6 sides we're done already.

 

[Lash]

Well...

Ten Hag did have all the reason to not start Maguire. Let me give you some:

1. Every fan who has watched Maguire knows that he can only play low block and will make mistakes in critical moments. He made two very big ones yesterday, one cost us a goal and the other - Dalot miraculously kicked the ball off the goal line, otherwise it was going in because of Maguire feckup. And Erik has had him for two years, he should know what Maguire is. Why else did we prioritize buying not just one but two CBs - De Ligt and Yoro.

2. Here is a HUGE one:

Mistakes aside, Maguire's inability to play high line means we need to stack the midfield to avoid huge gap in midfield when pressing, like we had last season. This is why Ten Hag was playing both Mount and Bruno and no striker, which saved midfield but left us toothless in being able to score goals.

Playing Maguire and Casemiro was the tactical disaster yesterday, causing a chain of other decisions that ended being our doom. Casemiro is INEOS fault for dragging out Ugarte transfer, but Maguire is all on Erik.

But De Ligt has had no pre-season and Yoro was unavailable? Unless you think we should have played Evans instead of Maguire, or risk De ligt not being up to match fitness, away from home against a good Brighton side?

He's playing Mount and Bruno as well have no striker that's fully fit at the moment and Zirkzee plays as a false 9 anyway.

Thing is though, who else is he meant to play? I'm sure he'd love to play Yoro/De Ligt and Ugarte instead, but it's just not possible - fine De Ligt instead, but that could have caused its own problems due to lack of match fitness. Erik has shown he doesn't fancy Maguire and dropped Casemiro for his biggest game last season. If he doesn't have the options, Maguire and Casemiro will have to play this season.

 

[NewGlory]

But De Ligt has had no pre-season and Yoro was unavailable? Unless you think we should have played Evans instead of Maguire, or risk De ligt not being up to match fitness, away from home against a good Brighton side?

He's playing Mount and Bruno as well have no striker that's fully fit at the moment and Zirkzee plays as a false 9 anyway.

Thing is though, who else is he meant to play? I'm sure he'd love to play Yoro/De Ligt and Ugarte instead, but it's just not possible - fine De Ligt instead, but that could have caused its own problems due to lack of match fitness. Erik has shown he doesn't fancy Maguire and dropped Casemiro for his biggest game last season. If he doesn't have the options, Maguire and Casemiro will have to play this season.

How do you know De Ligt or Zirkzee are not fit? Most our senior players missed preseason, and yet they played. So did Mazraoui. I am sure De Ligt and Zirkzee could have started and played 60 minutes. Erik was being way too careful

Also, subbing Bruno when he had already lost Mount was criminal

 

[JediSith]

"The few times he succeeds"? The man created more chances than any other player in the PL last season, on a team that finished 8th. He is the core of our attack. No other United attacker is even in that conversation. The notion that you could tinker with other options from this squad and maybe gain more than you lose is just clueless.

Same as saying “Lukaku scored 20 goals, the notion that the team is better off without him is clueless”. Somethings you’re better off observing for 1-2 seasons or more.

 

[Lyng]

I don't really understand the doom and gloom. We played decently and at least clearly better than last season.
Yes Maguire will have lapses of concentration and him and Martinez are quite bad together. But that's why we have bought two new cb's.
We need to be more clinical but at least today we where simply unlucky not to go ahead. I don't think we lose that game if that goal wasn't called off.

 

[IRN-BRUno]

Very frustrating result, not a great performance but it was one that deserved something out of the game. The Garnacho disallowed goal felt a bit similar to the one at Arsenal last year. We never really recovered from that defeat, need to bounce back quickly this time with a win against Liverpool.

 

[Lash]

How do you know De Ligt or Zirkzee are not fit? Most our senior players missed preseason, and yet they played. So did Mazraoui. I am sure De Ligt and Zirkzee could have started and played 60 minutes. Erik was being way too careful

Also, subbing Bruno when he had already lost Mount was criminal

He's said a such? Unless you think he's lying, I'm going to take that at face value. That's not true strictly though, the whole team bar Mazraoui, played against City in the Community shield and Fulham. It would be shitty management to just drop them for unfit players - on both the players who are here and the new signings. Mazraoui is playing because he has no other choice except Amass.

I agree the Bruno sub was baffling, that deserves plenty of criticism. I just think based on who we have available, pretty much any manager would pick the same team - maybe Garnacho over Amad or Rashford, but that's about it.

 

[Lash]

I don't really understand the doom and gloom. We played decently and at least clearly better than last season.
Yes Maguire will have lapses of concentration and him and Martinez are quite bad together. But that's why we have bought two new cb's.
We need to be more clinical but at least today we where simply unlucky not to go ahead. I don't think we lose that game if that goal wasn't called off.

Yep, we will have Hojlund back as well and in theory, Ugarte and an actual LB at some point. Overall we'll be a better team over the season, but today we still showed we need to improve our first team. Hopefully the new recruits do that, but we may need more.

 

[mitchmouse]

“Outplayed them and looked threatening lots”

Very poor and lazy English on my part, but I meant we outplayed them for periods.

Brighton away is a tough fixture. They’ll have one of the best home records in the league this year.

Oh I agree with that. Amazing how they keep finding managers who fit so well

 

[lex talionis]

There also was the Dalot to Amad chance. That should go in at least 50% of the time. Casemiro had a couple of good looks. We had enough chances for 2 or 3 goals.

I’ll have to look for that chance.

Regarding chances, we can’t expect to score on every good chance. Depending on how good those chances really are, a return of 1 goal on 3 good chances is fair. The Garnacho chance — the xG has to be 1.0 — was a much bigger chance than the Diallo goal, which came off a huge deflection and if you look closely enough wasn’t going in but for the deflection.

 

[adkb]

Considering the last season, I am very positive about the result.

Our defending was much much better. Our fullbacks were supporting in attacking and doing a good job defending. We seemed to be strong mentally, pushing the ball everytime without fear. I think when De ligt starts things will improve much much more.

Our entire game depends on Bruno and Rashford. Both need to be very very smart about their movement and decision making. Same as last season.

I am certainly excited for the season, and I won't let the bloom gloom affect me.

 

[SirMattlives]

Losing a game in the manner we did really amped up the frustration level for sure but 24 hours later I'm trying to see some of the positives. Only a couple of games in but we do seem improved over last season so if we can bed in the new players and stop conceding late, soft goals there's room for optimism. Let's see how we perform next weekend - am not dreading their visit anymore.

 

[Kag]

I thought we looked quite good in spells. Two awful goals to concede, mind.

Our bench options are seriously terrible and we need two midfielders quickly.

 

[Maureen-yo]

Considering the last season, I am very positive about the result.

Our defending was much much better. Our fullbacks were supporting in attacking and doing a good job defending. We seemed to be strong mentally, pushing the ball everytime without fear. I think when De ligt starts things will improve much much more.

Our entire game depends on Bruno and Rashford. Both need to be very very smart about their movement and decision making. Same as last season.

I am certainly excited for the season, and I won't let the bloom gloom affect me.

Agree but also need composure to find the runs in behind that Rashford/Garnacho make, got ignored a few times yesterday after making decent runs in behind.

 

[Lyng]

Yep, we will have Hojlund back as well and in theory, Ugarte and an actual LB at some point. Overall we'll be a better team over the season, but today we still showed we need to improve our first team. Hopefully the new recruits do that, but we may need more.

Absolutely, but we all knew that this was still a work in progress. We are not supposed to be challenging for the title yet. I think there are clear signs of progress, so no need to panic just yet.

 

[RedRocket9908]

We are miles off matching the level of the teams we are supposed to be competing with for places at the top of the table and look like we are only going to drift further away from them at the moment, even Chelsea are playing better than us at the moment and scored 6 today while we have only managed to score once in 2 games.

 

[Ole'sgunnarwin]

We are miles off matching the level of the teams we are supposed to be competing with for places at the top of the table and look like we are only going to drift further away from them at the moment, even Chelsea are playing better than us at the moment and scored 6 today while we have only managed to score once in 2 games.

We're many years from getting close to the likes of City. Many years of pain to come

 

[dutchred]

Just hope we get Ugarte ASAP and fit to play against Liverpool
Would like to see
Onana
Mazraoui De Ligt Martinez Dalot
Ugarte Mainoo
Mount
Diallo Zierkzee Garnacho

Bruno needs a rest and Mount has been our best player this season
Replace Mainoo with Casemiro after 70+ mins amd Ugarte with Collyear
We could beat liverpool with this team.
Need to get Shaw fit or get a new Left back or promote Amass. Dalot is not a naural felt back so we miss that attcking threat on the left combination, back and winger

 

[GueRed]

Martinez - Decent on the ball. A bit ditzy off it. Probably just a bit of early season rust
Marguire - Not a bad game but should've flung a leg out to block the cross for their first goal.
Mount - Worked his socks off in the first half
Casimero - Went walkabouts for Brighton's winner.
Amad - Put in a shift..was blowing out of his arse before he got subbed off. Glad he got a goal.
Rashford - Confidence looks shot. Needs to do better to stay in the team.
de Ligt - He and McTominay marking each other for Brighton's injury time winner summed up the last 20 minutes. Lacking composure and looking disorganised..

 

[Perseus]

Exceptional possession by UNITED. https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1...r-League-2024-2025-Brighton-Manchester-United I thought BHA edged the game when the subs came on.

 

[Oscar Bonavena]

Its also an issue that Dutch coaches, especially those that manage Man United in the EPL are obsessed with controlling the game and not bombarding the opponents goals to try and win by more than 1 goal.

I don't how you can say ETH is "obsessed with controlling the game". The opposite if anything, since he's been at the club, a consistent theme has been our abject inability to control a game.

Even games we win, most of them can go either way and it's a magic moment from Bruno or Garnacho that saves us. And often, we end up getting bitten on the arse ourselves by conceding a late goal, like we did yesterday. I wish ETH was MORE obsessed with controlling the game!

I agree that we don't create enough chances and score enough goals, another theme of ETH's time at the club.

 

[ifightdragons]

It doesn’t translate because currently we do not have a striker that will win you games and score 20+ PL goals. Its also an issue that Dutch coaches, especially those that manage Man United in the EPL are obsessed with controlling the game and not bombarding the opponents goals to try and win by more than 1 goal.

LVG team didn’t eyy score 50 Goal one season, the irony is that Slott will go straight into Liverpool and they’ll score 80+ goal this season.

We have had only 2 Dutch coaches, and you're only describing one of them when it comes to control.

One of Ten Hag's biggest problems at United is that he can't control games. Our possession stats have been miles behind the best in the league.

Van Gaal on the other hand was obsessed with control. Problem is, he was already outdated 20 years ago, let alone when he took over United. Possession is very important (arguably the most important aside from scoring enough goals), but Van Gaal had no plan about what to do with possession in the modern game.

Slot (not Slott) is tactically very similar to De Zerbi, and his players are already well coached by Klopp. So it's to be expected that Liverpool will continue to be quite good at maintaining possession and controlling games.

Ten Hag is facing an uphill battle with his tactics. He wants us to be a high pressing, counterattacking team that are super quick in transitions. Good luck getting such a physically and mentally taxing playing style to a consistent enough level that you can dominate the Premier League. It's pretty much a roll of the dice for every game what the outcome will be, as it's a playing style that favors so little control. It basically means we will lose the ball a lot, because everything needs to happen way too quickly to consistently work.

Add to the fact that everything we create seemingly must go through Bruno, a player who can't slow a game of football down if his life depended on it and gives the ball away at an alarming rate, and we're setting ourselves up for many years of very inconsistent results. That can be fine for reaching top 4 in some seasons, but will never be consistent enough to hit the 90+ points required to win the league.

Ten Hag's volatile tactics mainly bring unpredictability and inconsistency. It means we can beat anyone on our best days, but it also means we can and will lose to anyone on our normal days.

League winners usually average around 65% possession. That basically means control, consistency and predictable results. It's not a coincidence that winning the league with 50% possession is historically almost impossible. This is a universal fact that applies to football in all countries, at almost every single level. The teams that average the most possession, are usually the most consistent and most successful, except for a few statistical outliers and anomalies now and then, like say, Leicester.

Exceptions do apply for cups, where basically everything can happen and luck plays a much bigger role. You can win cup competitions in almost every way, from parking the bus to gegenpressing the crap out of your opposition. We've seen teams like Greece win the Euros, and sides like Spurs reach the final of the Champions League. Always measure a team's true progress on their league results, not by their crazy cup runs.

 

[Sandikan]

We can afford roughly 7 losses in the league if we want to achieve top 4. If we lose away to all top 6 sides we're done already.

Villa made top 4 last year with 10 defeats

The year before was very unusual as Newcastle only lost 5 games all season to come 4th, but drew 14
United lost 9 games to come 3rd!

 

[Mavs]

The first goal should be put largely on Maguire for not clearing the initial cross, it is hard to see why he didn't, but there are several more issues around the goal:

- Amad doesn't track their winger into the box. This drags Mazraoui out of position to meet him, and Maguire follows to take the man left by Mazraoui, leaving Wellbeck unmarked
- Casemiro and Mainoo could both have reached Welbeck if they had sensed the danger as soon as the cross was missed by Maguire and sprinted into the box
- Martinez was actually about to reach Welbeck but dropped back to mark another Brighton player (#17) coming in behind him. Rashford, Casemiro or Mainoo could all have reached that Brighton player had they reacted sooner. Rashford was actually the one who was marking/tagging him and let him run into the box and didn't follow.

All this highlights a problem I feel has plagued this team for too long - the inability to sense danger and follow runners into the box to cover the defenders. Everyone is just jogging about and reacting way too late. The winner was similar ofcourse, everyone sort of in their own world running in different directions or marking the same players. Although at that point we had a lot of new players on and substitutions that had derailed the defensive structure, but still.

Whether this is down to poor coaching, general lack of footballing intelligence by our players, inability to take responsibility or lacking drive to bust a gut to follow your man and get into covering positions, I feel it has been a problem for a long time and is probably not going to be fixed any time soon. We are unable to regain our structure or get back into positions when something goes a bit wrong and we are going to continue to concede a lot of these types of goals this season.

 

[redmanx]

“Outplayed them and looked threatening lots”

Very poor and lazy English on my part, but I meant we outplayed them for periods.

Brighton away is a tough fixture. They’ll have one of the best home records in the league this year.

But whats the point in "outplaying" teams if we dont score, finish them off and defeat them?