[ArtetasHair]

I don’t understand how they get away with all of the pushing and shoving. I’d be happy to steal it.

Because every team does it at corners. Not sure why this one sided view with one team doing it. Have you see the usual corners or even set pieces? Everyone's pushing and shoving. It's why so many games refs have a chat between corners and ask for retakes. It's nothing new.

The reason we score is because of excellent deliveries. Eg yesterday almost every corner was a goal. Merino missed an open header when he was free. So did Partey. Martinelli also missed a sitter in the first half when he shot wide. On another day all of these go in.

The only thing I'll agree is the refereeing is very inconsistent. A penalty one week is nothing the next. A red one week is nothing the next. It's the state of refereeing

 

[TwoSheds]

If there was a way to strengthen the team selling Rashford and signing another striker, that a double benefit. Rashford is a liability, doesn’t press, doesn’t pass, doesn’t defend , what he seems to do is sulk .

A player on what £350k per week , doesn’t put what seems a real effort in and has limited skills other than speed, no improvement in basics since coming into the team as a teenager. Seriously he is a liability to the team and if we are honest should be moved asap, the attitude is so poor and possibly reflects on the team as a whole.

How disappointing that a Manc born and bred seems happier in the nightclub than on the field. Time to move him on.

It's not effort, it's confidence. He's soft and that isn't likely to change unfortunately because he has ability but doesn't believe in himself and doesn't challenge himself to try and fail at things he doesn't like or isn't good at. When he was younger he had more appetite for it but it was still something that he needed to work on and instead he's gone backwards. Great pity.

 

[freddie the red]

Considering everything I think the team did well in the first half against a side lauded as being these free flowing attacking monsters.
I don't remember them cutting through us and I think, especially without Martinez and Shaw on the left, Malacia did really well in containing Saka.
I didn't expect much offensively and that's pretty much what we got but overall I think the team and Amorim got it spot on for the first half.
Second half and the less said about the usual suspects the better.....literally giving away a corner, when by then everybody knew that was just about all Arsenal had by way of threat, was just hopeless.
Maguire, Malacia, Ugarte all did their bit and Yoro showed plenty of class when he came on so, all in all, not the worst night.
I'd like to think Amorim is using all these games and players as an insight into who he can use going forward with a view to culling the deadwood and bringing in those he knows will work a treat in his system.
I'm praying he's been given the power to really do his own thing and that in a window or three the team will look decidedly different.
Anything less than that and it'll be a case of why did INEOS even bother bringing him in.

 

[Schmeichels pinky]

Because every team does it at corners. Not sure why this one sided obsession with one team doing it. Have you see the usual corners or even set pieces? Everyone's pushing and shoving. It's why so many games refs have a chat between corners and ask for retakes. It's nothing new.

The reason we score is because of excellent deliveries. Eg yesterday almost every corner was a goal. Merino missed an open header when he was free. So did Partey. Martinelli also missed a sitter in the first half when he shot wide. On another day all of these go in.

The only thing I'll agree is the refereeing is very inconsistent. A penalty one week is nothing the next. A red one week is nothing the next. It's the state of refereeing

Well, I do think you’ve made it a form of art to wrestle and shove and get away with it. Yes, it happens all the time, but you do it with a purpose, very structured and organized to optimize the chances from the delivery.

 

[Wolfbot]

People seem content here with a 2-0 loss. Shows how far we've fallen. We never look like scoring and are horrendous from set pieces.

Nothing on the manager, decent signs from him so far but he has one humongous job on his hands.

It's not contentment, it's acceptance of reality. When you play a team that's much been much better than you for the last few years, away from home and get beat, it's not that big a deal.

Yes we have fallen that far, the club has been mismanaged and we lack quality for the amount of money that has been spent.

It's better to accept where we are and look at the things that are improving, rather than the majority of folk losing their sh1t because they think we should be bossing every game based on the fact we were good well over a decade ago.

 

[Wolfbot]

I can't with Rashford. Even when he does score and 1/3 of Redcafe offer up sacrifices of spotless lambs in his name, his generally performance is usually worse than his statistical output.

At his very best, he's a productive player, but at his best, he's very average in general play. People need to come to terms with that and stop perpetuating the silly argument that "goals=good". A player can score many goals and still be poor for the team in general.

Rashford scoring a brace doesn't mean he had a good game. Football isn't that straightforward. It's not that binary.

There was a lot of the same in McTominay before he left, good for a goal but offered little quality in general play at Utd.

Tough one for a manager though, you need to score to win matches, so do you play the players who might score, or do you play a player who might contribute a bit more overall but reduce the chances of scoring.

Unfortunately, that's where we're at just now. Best chance of a goal is generally from Rashford or Garnacho, but they don't bring much quality in other areas very often. We need better players in their place that can score the goals but play football properly as well, it's that simple.

 

[Josh 76]

No big deal. Kind of what I expected.

 

[Bangor_Red]

Was Hojlund being weak there or was this a push ?

Two hands arms fully outstretched.thought it was a clear push considering it meant he got that space to head in, without the push Holland is closer.maybe a theatric fall and that goal is disallowed.there was a lesser push for the second goal

 

[Born2Lose]

First time I've seen Arsenal in a long while and I can see why a lot of Arsenal fans aren't happy in spite of them being in the CL and near the top of the league. To watch that every week there has to be a payoff at the end of it.

 

[Matt851]

Some positives last night but it looks a fairly long road back to competing with top teams for thus united squad. Hopefully amorim can improve some players but we need a new left wing back, cm, cf, left sided 10 and probably a centre back. That's probably two summers work

We have so few players who have both the required athletic ability and decent technique

 

[RedIan]

Bit of a reality check. The positives were we looked very solid except at all the corners. The team were confused by all the arsenal players standing beyond the far post and could not adapt to deal with it. Instead they marked space, then as the Arsenal players surged in as the kick was taken pure panic ensued. Great tactic by Arsenal poor response by us.
Its also clear against a better defensive team are forwards are not really good enough.

 

[afrocentricity]

I don’t understand how they get away with all of the pushing and shoving. I’d be happy to steal it.

Exactly

 

[Denis79]

If we perform the same in this fixture next season I will be dissapointed. Now (this season) Amorim gets a free pass from me to stabilize things.

 

[Berbasbullet]

Because every team does it at corners. Not sure why this one sided view with one team doing it. Have you see the usual corners or even set pieces? Everyone's pushing and shoving. It's why so many games refs have a chat between corners and ask for retakes. It's nothing new.

The reason we score is because of excellent deliveries. Eg yesterday almost every corner was a goal. Merino missed an open header when he was free. So did Partey. Martinelli also missed a sitter in the first half when he shot wide. On another day all of these go in.

The only thing I'll agree is the refereeing is very inconsistent. A penalty one week is nothing the next. A red one week is nothing the next. It's the state of refereeing

Yeah course there’s bits of it all the time! But in this instance there was a two handed shove that made sure Hojlund couldn’t head the ball away before Timber knocked it in.

I’m sure I’ve seen that exact action disallow goals before.

It was just a mele of chaos in the 6 yard box. heck if it works it works, and I want us to start doing it in the future.

 

[Craig Ward]

I thought we done well considering.

Amorin hasn't been here all that long and every player is learning a new style of play.

No Martinez, no Mainoo and rotating fatigued players.

We were away at Arsenal who are genuine title challengers and we played ok.

More positives than not after the game. We limited Arsenal to set pieces, which to be fair they were exceptional at. The delivery in from Rice in particular was world class.

Nothing surprised me in that game at all.

Special mention for Rashford though - it's almost like he is going out of his way to be as useless as possible. Literally showed no desire to actually be on that pitch whatsoever.

 

[quadrant]

That’s exactly what Hojlund has been doing under ETH and got so much stick for - “he should be in the box!”. Can’t have it both ways.

Given time I think the three of them together on the pitch will be interesting

You can't take these things in isolation. Firstly, Hojland is better as a number 9 while Zirkzee is better as a false 9. And secondly, this was a game against arguably the most physically adept centre back in the league, Saliba, and therefore there's a shout that a false 9 might be a better bet. That doesn't mean a false 9 is better for every game, nor that Hojland should play that role.

 

[Orange Tree]

Just like when Casemiro got carded for doing what Fernandinho been doing for ages for City, once we start doing the shoving, they will get called as fouls.

 

[Sunny Jim]

Get Rashford out of my club please.

Isn’t he back or something?

 

[JediSith]

Some positives last night but it looks a fairly long road back to competing with top teams for thus united squad. Hopefully amorim can improve some players but we need a new left wing back, cm, cf, left sided 10 and probably a centre back. That's probably two summers work

We have so few players who have both the required athletic ability and decent technique

Disagree. I think last night, especially the first half showed that all we are lacking are
1) someone to connect defence to attack. Either deeplaying playmaker or box to box (think Mainoo can do that)
2) final third we need a proper intricate number 10
3) competition for Hujland
4) Shaw replacement. So a lwb who can also play LCB.

I think we are closer than people think. Because for the first time we have a manager who is getting the best out of what he has, and will no doubt keep improving what he already has.

 

[fergiewherearethou]

First half was good for us, we kept the ball, defended well and didn't concede chances.
Second half though when they started pressing us more and bringing more players in our third, things did not look good and we couldn't cope with it.
At the end we conceded from corners, which is not very reassuring either, we should have dealt better with those, especially when they hit probably 10 from 13 corners at the near post. A more commanding GK would have probably dealt with those crosses better and force them to change the plan, but they saw our weakness and tried and tried until it worked out.
Offensively we created almost nothing, only that De Ligt chance so there not much to talk about.

 

[DJ_21]

They had 13 corners and to be fair they were close to score at every second corner. All those corners came from open play because we were outplayed and sat back to clear the box.

There winner came from a rashford mistake though.

 

[wolvored]

Annihilated??? How so?? Thought we were decent defensively, and playing in London. They barely had any chances and scored on two extremely lucky corners. Played without Licha as well. What match were you watching??

Thats not true. Every corner they took caused us problems. I hope Amorim takes this from the game and gets us to train and aspire to take corners as good as this.

 

[Hoof the ball]

 

[midou]

Whoever put this clip together is a knob, terrible agenda-driven compilation.

 

[TheArse]

Diallo, Ugarte, De Ligt and that really young fellow Yoro played well.

Give them minutes and get some talented younger players around them and no doubt you're on for the rebuild.

Rashford is earning some serious wages though. He did not earn them today. He is more than capable of smashing them in but his head is gone.

Bruno keeps getting played out of position and the players around him are not what compliments him or the team. I think Amorim should see this pretty quickly.

Goodluck on your rebuild, it will be interesting to watch.

 

[tjb]

What was clear is that the shape and tactics were fine, we just currently don't have the dribbling ability within the attacking portion of the squad to easily counter attack with confidence in these games yet. Without Amad, we didn't have that outlet.

I actually think we're fine in Central midfield. The problem is that our no.10's offer no presence whatsoever. When we attempt to play through the middle, they offer no support in terms of presence, which forces us to try and break through the wing backs or have a direct pass to Hojlund. In addition, we obviously need an athletic left wing back. These games are high pace and high intensity, o having attackers that can react and make good quick decisions is needed.

We showed that we can play out of the back and maintain good possession. We looked so composed. But the lack of ideas and presence in attack got exposed again. Fans are going to have to deal with us watching some of our forwards grow.

 

[LDUred]

Best thing to do might be to just line up on the goal line, then have a few of the best headerers of the ball come out to attack the ball.

Like the love train, the tactic is all about creating mismatches amidst the chaos, so just have the best aerial duellers come out with a clear line to the ball and leave players on the line in case the ball isn't won.

One thing you have to admit is that the delivery was really good for nearly all of the corners,

 

[Maticmaker]

I had hoped we might scrap a draw, optimistic of course but the first half gave me encouragement. However, I forgot about the corner set piece from Arsenal, who it seems with this routine have solved a long standing problem for refs; it's now just a 'free-for-all', anything goes(*), pushing, shoving, standing on feet, shirt pulling, etc. no matter that it's all recorded on VAR!

Ugarte and Mazaroui deserve a mention in dispatches, Amad looks as though he is settling in as a wing-back and Yoro looks like he knows what he's about.... however, Rashford is a lost soul, Garnacho can't seem to get anything right just now, and Shaw's injured ......again ???

(*Loved to have seen how Harry Gregg would have handled this situation ; it was after the Lofthouse incident in 1959 FA Cup Final, when Harry decided from then on, he would take no prisoners in the 6 yard box)

 

[Crimson King]

Whoever put this clip together is a knob, terrible agenda-driven compilation.

That fan's account used to be 'TenHaagEra' or some shit like that.

Pure engagement farmer

 

[U-N-I-T-E-D]

I think we were outplayed by a better team - hardly a shock at this point. There’s solace that they only managed to score from set pieces that I see becoming the norm for corners in the future as they’re so difficult to defend against.

That said we had nothing going forward.

I think playing Bruno at CM is a mistake. He should be playing in one of the two 10 roles with Mount/Eriksen.

The problem we have is trying to fit Garnacho and Rashford into a system that doesn’t support them. Apparently Amorim has adapted players before so he might have success but it will take time. Neither player has the discipline to play as a wingback like Amad does.

If he’s going to stick with the formation we need to be prepared to not use or lose decent players that don’t fit the system. I think it’s one of the reasons Liverpool opted against Amorim as if it doesn’t work out you may have a team in 2-3 years suited to that system that very few play with.

I’m stuck between going all in as we’ve been bitten before and potentially losing really promising players because they don’t fit.

 

[Rajma]

I think we were outplayed by a better team - hardly a shock at this point. There’s solace that they only managed to score from set pieces that I see becoming the norm for corners in the future as they’re so difficult to defend against.

That said we had nothing going forward.

I think playing Bruno at CM is a mistake. He should be playing in one of the two 10 roles with Mount/Eriksen.

The problem we have is trying to fit Garnacho and Rashford into a system that doesn’t support them. Apparently Amorim has adapted players before so he might have success but it will take time. Neither player has the discipline to play as a wingback like Amad does.

If he’s going to stick with the formation we need to be prepared to not use or lose decent players that don’t fit the system. I think it’s one of the reasons Liverpool opted against Amorim as if it doesn’t work out you may have a team in 2-3 years suited to that system that very few play with.

I’m stuck between going all in as we’ve been bitten before and potentially losing really promising players because they don’t fit.

Which promising players could be compromised by this formation?

 

[U-N-I-T-E-D]

Which promising players could be compromised by this formation?

Maybe not promising as in upcoming but players that have the potential to be good.

I was thinking Garnacho, Rashford and any other more traditional wingers. If they can’t play as a wing back like Amad, they would have to slot in as a 10.

Both are struggling in the position as they like space to run into which they aren’t getting.

 

[Tincanalley]

That fan's account used to be 'TenHaagEra' or some shit like that.

Pure engagement farmer

Well said

 

[Ish]

Were people expecting points yesterday? Looking through the performance threads every hater has come out for every player with a few joining in for the lols.... This place can be terrible reading after a loss but bringing it back, what were we expecting?

No surprise to see a resumption of the Zirkzee and Garnacho criticism and Rashford/Dalot.... par for the course. This fanbase does love it's scape goats that's for sure.

Arsenal were the overwhelming favourites, I saw good things in that match. I'm fully AmorIN.... Perspective.

I used to like comparing the descent of this place into full blown RAWK - the longer and longer we wait for our first major title (or even title challenge!)....but with my hazy 40 year old memory....was RAWK like this or didn't they go the complete opposite (delusional!) and praise all their players to the high heaven (& rather blamed refs/webb/bad luck/whisky nose?) for all their misfortune? I don't quite recall because I only got my source from the RAWK meltdown thread(s) on here. Oh those were the days! But it felt like they went the opposite route with their players - granted most of them weren't on the obscene wages + transfer fees of most of ours....Pennant, Le Tallec, Pongolle to name a few!

 

[quadrant]

Maybe not promising as in upcoming but players that have the potential to be good.

I was thinking Garnacho, Rashford and any other more traditional wingers. If they can’t play as a wing back like Amad, they would have to slot in as a 10.

Both are struggling in the position as they like space to run into which they aren’t getting.

At Sporting he would have players like Trincao or Edwards in one of those attacking positions behind the striker, who are both wingers/wide attackers rather than traditional number 10s. Its a bit of a misconception that he had two pure number 10s behind a single striker.

 

[afrocentricity]

I used to like comparing the descent of this place into full blown RAWK - the longer and longer we wait for our first major title (or even title challenge!)....but with my hazy 40 year old memory....was RAWK like this or didn't they go the complete opposite (delusional!) and praise all their players to the high heaven (& rather blamed refs/webb/bad luck/whisky nose?) for all their misfortune? I don't quite recall because I only got my source from the RAWK meltdown thread(s) on here. Oh those were the days! But it felt like they went the opposite route with their players - granted most of them weren't on the obscene wages + transfer fees of most of ours....Pennant, Le Tallec, Pongolle to name a few!

We're not at the stage RAWK were at, they had been decades without and we're at what, a decade or so? It's a snapshot of us in a few years time if we don't sort ourselves out Ish....

All it takes is for the mods to have a mad overcorrection in response to all this shite........

 

[Ish]

We're not at the stage RAWK were at, they had been decades without and we're at what, a decade or so? It's a snapshot of us in a few years time if we don't sort ourselves out Ish....

All it takes is for the mods to have a mad overcorrection in response to all this shite........

Let's hope you're referring to Amorim sorting us out (with a competitive/winning team) and not a reference to us Caftards needing to sort ourselves out - because i'd say that ship has long sailed . But yeah, we're 3 weeks into a mid (not quite mid) season managerial change and people are losing their shite - and it was an away match to Arsenal as well.

 

[RedDevil@84]

Pretty decent performance overall. Malacia and Yoro had decent runs. We did not get Saka'd.

 

[afrocentricity]

us Caftards needing to sort ourselves out - because i'd say that ship has long sailed .

That ship is in a whole other galaxy and has gone through several mutiny's by now

 

[Ish]

That ship is in a whole other galaxy and has gone through several mutiny's by now