PL L FA Premier League

Arsenal 3:1 Manchester United

Post-match discussion


Sun, 03 September 2023

The performance was hardly beautiful but it was effective until stoppage time. We had them by the balls when Garnacho scored but an absurd offside call kept it 1-1 and Arsenal took its scalp in stoppage time. Jonny was rugby tackled but don’t expect the referees to see that one, or the blatant foul on Hojlund in the box.

A bit worrying that our new shot stopper has conceded 7 goals in the last 3 matches.

Wouldn't be too worried because he has made plenty of excellent saves so far. Plus, there wasn't much he could have done for the goals we have conceded.

Yesterday's game was the first time in history (since pressing systems like this weren't incorporated before) where I've seen United play through the press of a top team. In big games, we usually have had to rely on massive exertion of energy to get through the games before having to deal with lulls where we get peppered, but yesterday, through playing out of the back effectively, we were able to manage Arsenal for most of the game; that's new and not enough people are realizing it.

Why did this happen? Because after spending a few weeks getting used to Onana, we were finally truly able to use Onana's ball playing abilities, which allowed us to keep the ball far longer than we have done in games like this. Why didn't we do this before? Because we didn't have the keeper or central defenders with the confidence to do this, but we can do it now. City and Liverpool have been tiring out our presses and creating gaps in our centre through doing this for years, and for the first time in our history, we are actually able to do this too. That's fantastic and a massive sign of progress.

Last season we did this with our defence and midfield, which allowed us to control games and was the reason for the home form we enjoyed. In my opinion, this will help us in a lot of our more difficult away games with high pressure teams which we've struggled with for years.

Yesterday exposed another problem we've had for years, since Lukaku left, with our attack. Depending on Bruno to drop things on a plate for our attackers to create anything. Yesterday's game made me realize that we've been wasting years without a striker. We've had Ronaldo, Martial and Rashford playing that role without truly being true strikers. Hojlund came in, and you could see the clear lines and link up. You could see a proper target for our attackers and you could see the movement created for himself and others with the small sample size. We spent 25 years with Sir Alex where he focused so heavily on getting really good strikers and ensuring they had good rotations only to not have those things for almost 5 seasons. People lambast our decisions in the final third, but haven't realized that most of that comes as a result of having no proper presence in the box to play with. Hence, having to play almost individually in attack.

My point here is that with this realization ( and potentially getting depth there in future), I feel we will also improve significantly in attack. This will help our away form as we wouldn't be relying on complete dominance or moments of brilliance to ensure away goals.

Fans need to understand how poorly made our team was for modern football prior to ETH's arrival and how much has been already achieved. The progress isn't linear and ETH isn't perfect, like any other manager. There are system tweaks and changes that won't work, there are players that we sign that won't work and there are in game decisions that are made that won't work, but it's all part of the process and learning. No manager is that exceptional, Pep literally had to tweak systems and sell players to get this current shape that led to the treble. Prior to that he experimented with a 4231 and has even experimented with a 352. Add that to the fact that we've suffered a lot of injuries, and are having to rely on the depth that Ten Haag banked on. Despite not having Mount, Varane, Shaw, Malacia, Amad, Amrabat and Hojlund for most of the season so far, we've been able to pull out really good starting xi's. That's a sign of how far we've come and how much we haven't had the chance to do yet due to all the changes

Some good points that gives me hope. Despite Arteta instructing their players to close down Martinez as soon as he got the ball (because he is the only one that can pass from the back properly), we still managed to keep the ball for longer periods, although we failed miserably to progress the ball beyond our half, aside 2 or 3 counters.

Amrabat will help us a lot I believe in that aspect. Reguilon too. A quick, nimble, aggressive, energetic left back, that can move up and down the pitch in line with midfield without getting exhausted after one run. I been hoping for a long while now to land one of those spanish left backs, who are usually some of the best, ala Alba, Monreal, etc.
 
It's baffling as to what is going on with this club and there definitely is a discrepancy with the expectation of what a good football coach (Ten Hag) can deliver and as to the decisions he is making.
- are our youth teams so far behind that we could not introduce a CB pair last season into the first team?
- if we signed Reguilon as a backup to Shaw (yes he was just signed) why not introduce him at some point in the match and push Dalot into midfield to replace Erikson
- why not bring on fresh legs with Hannibal for example to cover midfield; even if we lost as we did, these youth need the experience.
- the wingers offered no attacking options despite Rashfords goal; Antony is a disappointment but is definitely more of a work-horse than Rashford so you have wingers that lack a major component.

But we need to give Ten Hag time this season to develop some identity. Having said that, seeing Mcguire, Evans and Mctominay still in the team just because they either refused to go or were offered a contract based on loyalty, leaves me fuming. Rashford needs to be used as an impact sub and so too Garnachio. Use Martial on the left as the 'better' performances we saw of him were from that position.

Those are all terrible points. No, there aren't any CBs in our youth teams good enough to play in the PL, never mind for United. Reguilon didn't and shouldn't come on at LB because Dalot was doing very well. A tight away game against Arsenal is not a situation where you bring on youth to give them experience, if you're a remotely competent manager. To use Rashford as an impact sub would be eccentric, to say the least. And Martial on the left, no thanks.
 
Isn't it sad that we were supposed to beat Arsenal but it turned out the other way?
 
Fans need to understand how poorly made our team was for modern football prior to ETH's arrival and how much has been already achieved. The progress isn't linear and ETH isn't perfect, like any other manager.

Good post, I agree with all of it especially the above sentence.

We are seemingly at the stage were "we've had our teeth fixed, but now our mouth won't work"
;)
 
I do admire some of the optimism shown in here. Only four games in and were already minus in goal difference, struggled to put together an entire decent 45 mins of football and have injuries left right and centre and will likely have the chuckle brothers at the back for the next few games. Oh and our captain is a manchild How does one remain so positive ??
 
I do admire some of the optimism shown in here. Only four games in and were already minus in goal difference, struggled to put together an entire decent 45 mins of football and have injuries left right and centre and will likely have the chuckle brothers at the back for the next few games. Oh and our captain is a manchild How does one remain so positive ??
I'm hoping for some serious shift in our form after the international break but given that we have been crap for so long, I dont have much faith.
 
Wouldn't be too worried because he has made plenty of excellent saves so far. Plus, there wasn't much he could have done for the goals we have conceded.



Some good points that gives me hope. Despite Arteta instructing their players to close down Martinez as soon as he got the ball (because he is the only one that can pass from the back properly), we still managed to keep the ball for longer periods, although we failed miserably to progress the ball beyond our half, aside 2 or 3 counters.

Amrabat will help us a lot I believe in that aspect. Reguilon too. A quick, nimble, aggressive, energetic left back, that can move up and down the pitch in line with midfield without getting exhausted after one run. I been hoping for a long while now to land one of those spanish left backs, who are usually some of the best, ala Alba, Monreal, etc.
Hate to break it to you but Reguilon isn’t like any of those
 
Poor defending on set pieces has been one of the hallmarks of United since the end of the Ferguson era. Evans did get manhandled and the goal should have been disallowed, but bad keeper positioning at the moment Rice took the shot killed us.
 
Poor defending on set pieces has been one of the hallmarks of United since the end of the Ferguson era. Evans did get manhandled and the goal should have been disallowed, but bad keeper positioning at the moment Rice took the shot killed us.

It's poor defending on the corner that led to the goal, but the grabbing is nothing too extraordinary and Evans even grabs hold as well. Could see it called, but there is a ton of stuff like that going on. The problem is Evans was isolated. Almost all our guys were at the far post. If another defender from the near post had gone to the far post, Rice would never have scored. On almost all our corners Man Utd defenders were flocking to the near post. I was getting annoyed with the short corners.
 
Saka was obviously a major threat but Dalot played him well. I note that Rashford was always quick to get back to double-team him.
They probably deserved a narrow victory - not the white-wash they seem to think they achieved.
 
It's poor defending on the corner that led to the goal, but the grabbing is nothing too extraordinary and Evans even grabs hold as well. Could see it called, but there is a ton of stuff like that going on. The problem is Evans was isolated. Almost all our guys were at the far post. If another defender from the near post had gone to the far post, Rice would never have scored. On almost all our corners Man Utd defenders were flocking to the near post. I was getting annoyed with the short corners.

I agree. Attackers manhandling defenders often goes uncalled, but in any event Rice was unmarked and was gifted poor positioning by the keeper, who despite his poor positioning, almost made the save. Strange that Onana has gotten off to a slow start but has received so much high praise for his tiki taka passes to his defenders. What we need more than a modern keeper is a keeper with old-fashioned shot-stopping ability. The latter can never be sacrificed for the former, but I believe that Onana will reach a sufficiently competent level of shot-stopping by the end of the season.
 
Even 3 days after the event...I can't help but look back at that offside and try to compute whether it was offside or not?!

Firstly, did they use the lines in the grass to align the VAR lines? To me, the centre line of the pitch doesn't run parallel with the line in the grass, but it may be an optical illusion from that angle?

Secondly, surely Gabriel's head was closer to the goal than his shoulder?

Even when I eyeball the still image, it's onside.

Never one to dwell on these things but if both elements are mistakes, it's a pretty damning indictment of VAR and it's implementation.
 
Even 3 days after the event...I can't help but look back at that offside and try to compute whether it was offside or not?!

Firstly, did they use the lines in the grass to align the VAR lines? To me, the centre line of the pitch doesn't run parallel with the line in the grass, but it may be an optical illusion from that angle?

Secondly, surely Gabriel's head was closer to the goal than his shoulder?

Even when I eyeball the still image, it's onside.

Never one to dwell on these things but if both elements are mistakes, it's a pretty damning indictment of VAR and it's implementation.
If there are so many questions it should stay with the original decision either way. Such a nonsensical thing to decide a match whether it’s United or anyone else
 
Saka was obviously a major threat but Dalot played him well. I note that Rashford was always quick to get back to double-team him.
They probably deserved a narrow victory - not the white-wash they seem to think they achieved.
PS I was impresed by Dalot's (ultimately futile) attempt to get back to intercept Jesus. He was obviously fully committed.
 

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