PL L FA Premier League

Arsenal 3:1 Manchester United

Post-match discussion


Sun, 03 September 2023

Still not good enough but we were unlucky not to get a point, defended well for the most part and grew into the game.

Were the better team in the 20 mins between Hojlund coming on and Garnacho scoring so a proper kick in the teeth that they ended up winning like to that. Utter shite defending by Evans and Maguire to not close down Rice however.
 
Still not good enough but we were unlucky not to get a point, defended well for the most part and grew into the game.

Were the better team in the 20 mins between Hojlund coming on and Garnacho scoring so a proper kick in the teeth that they ended up winning like to that. Utter shite defending by Evans and Maguire to not close down Rice however.

Evans was impeded, what do you expect him to do?
 
Still not good enough but we were unlucky not to get a point, defended well for the most part and grew into the game.

Were the better team in the 20 mins between Hojlund coming on and Garnacho scoring so a proper kick in the teeth that they ended up winning like to that. Utter shite defending by Evans and Maguire to not close down Rice however.
In the context of 5 first teamers out injured in one of the hardest games of the season, surely it was good enough. Of course we want to be in a position where we can come and dominate against top teams, but realistically this was progress. The usual weaknesses in key moments plus harsh decisions screwed us.
 
In the context of 5 first teamers out injured in one of the hardest games of the season, surely it was good enough. Of course we want to be in a position where we can come and dominate against top teams, but realistically this was progress. The usual weaknesses in key moments plus harsh decisions screwed us.
The 'usual weakness' is damning. Plus why are we getting so many injuries? THere was an artice on this last week. Overplaying and lack of rotation probably a big factor
 
Listen, Arsenal have been drilling and drilling for years. Arteta and Arsenal was a laughing stock here and other fan bases. Even own fans wanted Arteta gone.

Now they are one of the serious good teams around. It takes time.

I think ten Hag have come along way already. Keep calm and you can see that we are going in the right direction.

And for the game yesterday, we deserved to get at least on point.

Arteta’s first 3 seasons- 8th, 8th and 5th and this is after he was backed in the transfer market as well. Our fanbase generally lacks patience though and are ready to stunt any progress again with knee jerk reactions like sacking ten Hag. I think by November, we’ll see further progress from this team, as they adapt completely to ten Hag’s tactics and style. It seems that much of that progress will depend on the impact of Amrabat, Hojlund and Mount.
 
The 'usual weakness' is damning. Plus why are we getting so many injuries? THere was an artice on this last week. Overplaying and lack of rotation probably a big factor
That was only match four.
 
That was only match four.
This reflects last season and the cumulative effect of little rotation or rest. But yes it also raises questions about this season, lots of injuries already. Questions were raised over amount of travel on US tour and lack of recuperation time.
 
This reflects last season and the cumulative effect of little rotation or rest. But yes it also raises questions about this season, lots of injuries already. Questions were raised over amount of travel on US tour and lack of recuperation time.
The number of injuries is frustrating, but we need to find a way to manage the overseas tours cos they are an economic reality. Overplaying should not be an issue four games in though, particularly given the cups haven't even kicked in yet.
 
I always keep an eye out for the first "the season's over" message here, it usually happens early after a poor result. I read one here after match 4. Not a record but fairly par for the course here. In my view, the season is only starting and we are looking ok. Am optimistic.
 
I’m excited about the rest of the season regardless of the result. We’re starting to look better game by game. Hojlund looked like he’d been here for 5 years in his cameo. ETH seemed very pleased to have him when asked about him in the press conference.

We had a bunch of injuries in midfield and defence that would hurt any team in world football.

Not every day you’re closing a game out of that magnitude with your 5th and 6th choice centrebacks and barely any midfield options on the bench.
 
I thought we did ok yesterday at times but there were too many many times where our players were just stood still watching Arsenal pass the ball around instead of closing them down and trying to win the ball back.

Erik's team selection for this game was baffling, why play a RB at LB and leave a fully fit expirianced LB sat on the bench and why start with Martial who cobtributes absolutely nothing and leave a proper number 9 you paid a lot of money for sat on the bench

The ref and VAR had a really poor game with the overturned penalty probably being the only thing it got right, we should have had a penalty for the foul on Hojlund, Garnacho looked onside, and the 2nd Arsenal goal should at the very least have been subjected to an on-field review for the foul on Evans.
 
In the context of 5 first teamers out injured in one of the hardest games of the season, surely it was good enough. Of course we want to be in a position where we can come and dominate against top teams, but realistically this was progress. The usual weaknesses in key moments plus harsh decisions screwed us.

We gave it a go and were unlucky not to draw as I say, it was better than some of our performances against the top sides although personally thought we were better in the first half at the Emirates last season, but if you do what we did in key moments it’s still not good enough overall.

I’m sure we’ll get better but there’s still a long way to go.
 
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Arteta’s first 3 seasons- 8th, 8th and 5th and this is after he was backed in the transfer market as well. Our fanbase generally lacks patience though and are ready to stunt any progress again with knee jerk reactions like sacking ten Hag. I think by November, we’ll see further progress from this team, as they adapt completely to ten Hag’s tactics and style. It seems that much of that progress will depend on the impact of Amrabat, Hojlund and Mount.

The level of knee jerk is infuriating, we've had complaints for years about how we're "moments FC" or "individual brilliance FC" and how tired people are of us sitting back how Mourinho and Ole set us up. But now we're trying to fix that, folks are kicking off because we haven't immediately become a well drilled pressing and possession team, and are discounting any progress towards it.
 
Arsenal are no where near one of the best teams in the World .

They clearly are - they finished 2nd in the Premier League last season, pipped only by treble-winning City. If you're not counting them as one of the best teams in the World, the list of "best teams" can't be many more than 5 or 6 teams at a push.
 
Evans was impeded, what do you expect him to do?
I'm glad another person saw the foul on Evans not foul he goes toward the ball before Rice gets his shot off.. VAR deemed it no foul? And I've just seen the offside again the line should go through the Arsenal players head , so that puts him onside?..
 
Except for the two times we had the ball in the back of the net.

Ah yes the interception of a poor pass from an Arsenal player followed by one pass that puts Rashford away. Then that goal that was offside. Hardly gives you a firm footing to claim my statement is wrong does it.

Honestly people have maybe been starved of good football for so long that they don’t even know what quality football is or how it is played.

Used to watch us dissect and pull teams apart whilst still being solid then having attackers that could create space and oppertunities for one another and now we have this.
 
sounds like you’d rather good football over a league title. A win’s a win.

Look at Mou’s first year at Chelsea, for the largest part it was score a goal and then park the bus, hardly glory ball that’s beautiful on the eye.

But it got them a trophy or two didn’t it….

Ah yes the interception of a poor pass from an Arsenal player followed by one pass that puts Rashford away. Then that goal that was offside. Hardly gives you a firm footing to claim my statement is wrong does it.

Honestly people have maybe been starved of good football for so long that they don’t even know what quality football is or how it is played.

Used to watch us dissect and pull teams apart whilst still being solid then having attackers that could create space and oppertunities for one another and now we have this.
 
Result was frustrating, but I'm positive about hojlund. He had an immediate impact and at least gave arsenal defence something to do. Lots of running and was trusted on the ball. Personally think mount should be tried on the right. Will give hojlund plenty of chances
 
I thought we did ok yesterday at times but there were too many many times where our players were just stood still watching Arsenal pass the ball around instead of closing them down and trying to win the ball back.

Erik's team selection for this game was baffling, why play a RB at LB and leave a fully fit expirianced LB sat on the bench and why start with Martial who cobtributes absolutely nothing and leave a proper number 9 you paid a lot of money for sat on the bench

The ref and VAR had a really poor game with the overturned penalty probably being the only thing it got right, we should have had a penalty for the foul on Hojlund, Garnacho looked onside, and the 2nd Arsenal goal should at the very least have been subjected to an on-field review for the foul on Evans.

Completely natural decision. Dalot should be considered a better player at LB than Reguilon until he's wasted his opportunities to prove it, and yesterday he did the opposite of that.

I agree that it was baffling to start Martial though, considering how painfully rusty he looked against Forest. He was just as bad yesterday, although he showed a few flashes in his 15 minutes in the second half.
 
On the plus side to losing, I have a weird belief that revenge is a pretty big thing in football and has an impact in games like this, so in the return game at the end of the season (which I got tickets for...) I think we'll be well up for it and more likely to win because we lost.
 
It's baffling as to what is going on with this club and there definitely is a discrepancy with the expectation of what a good football coach (Ten Hag) can deliver and as to the decisions he is making.
- are our youth teams so far behind that we could not introduce a CB pair last season into the first team?
- if we signed Reguilon as a backup to Shaw (yes he was just signed) why not introduce him at some point in the match and push Dalot into midfield to replace Erikson
- why not bring on fresh legs with Hannibal for example to cover midfield; even if we lost as we did, these youth need the experience.
- the wingers offered no attacking options despite Rashfords goal; Antony is a disappointment but is definitely more of a work-horse than Rashford so you have wingers that lack a major component.

But we need to give Ten Hag time this season to develop some identity. Having said that, seeing Mcguire, Evans and Mctominay still in the team just because they either refused to go or were offered a contract based on loyalty, leaves me fuming. Rashford needs to be used as an impact sub and so too Garnachio. Use Martial on the left as the 'better' performances we saw of him were from that position.
 
sounds like you’d rather good football over a league title. A win’s a win.

Look at Mou’s first year at Chelsea, for the largest part it was score a goal and then park the bus, hardly glory ball that’s beautiful on the eye.

But it got them a trophy or two didn’t it….

You do realise good football often leads to trophies.
 
Yesterday's game was the first time in history (since pressing systems like this weren't incorporated before) where I've seen United play through the press of a top team. In big games, we usually have had to rely on massive exertion of energy to get through the games before having to deal with lulls where we get peppered, but yesterday, through playing out of the back effectively, we were able to manage Arsenal for most of the game; that's new and not enough people are realizing it.

Why did this happen? Because after spending a few weeks getting used to Onana, we were finally truly able to use Onana's ball playing abilities, which allowed us to keep the ball far longer than we have done in games like this. Why didn't we do this before? Because we didn't have the keeper or central defenders with the confidence to do this, but we can do it now. City and Liverpool have been tiring out our presses and creating gaps in our centre through doing this for years, and for the first time in our history, we are actually able to do this too. That's fantastic and a massive sign of progress.

Last season we did this with our defence and midfield, which allowed us to control games and was the reason for the home form we enjoyed. In my opinion, this will help us in a lot of our more difficult away games with high pressure teams which we've struggled with for years.

Yesterday exposed another problem we've had for years, since Lukaku left, with our attack. Depending on Bruno to drop things on a plate for our attackers to create anything. Yesterday's game made me realize that we've been wasting years without a striker. We've had Ronaldo, Martial and Rashford playing that role without truly being true strikers. Hojlund came in, and you could see the clear lines and link up. You could see a proper target for our attackers and you could see the movement created for himself and others with the small sample size. We spent 25 years with Sir Alex where he focused so heavily on getting really good strikers and ensuring they had good rotations only to not have those things for almost 5 seasons. People lambast our decisions in the final third, but haven't realized that most of that comes as a result of having no proper presence in the box to play with. Hence, having to play almost individually in attack.

My point here is that with this realization ( and potentially getting depth there in future), I feel we will also improve significantly in attack. This will help our away form as we wouldn't be relying on complete dominance or moments of brilliance to ensure away goals.

Fans need to understand how poorly made our team was for modern football prior to ETH's arrival and how much has been already achieved. The progress isn't linear and ETH isn't perfect, like any other manager. There are system tweaks and changes that won't work, there are players that we sign that won't work and there are in game decisions that are made that won't work, but it's all part of the process and learning. No manager is that exceptional, Pep literally had to tweak systems and sell players to get this current shape that led to the treble. Prior to that he experimented with a 4231 and has even experimented with a 352. Add that to the fact that we've suffered a lot of injuries, and are having to rely on the depth that Ten Haag banked on. Despite not having Mount, Varane, Shaw, Malacia, Amad, Amrabat and Hojlund for most of the season so far, we've been able to pull out really good starting xi's. That's a sign of how far we've come and how much we haven't had the chance to do yet due to all the changes
 
Yesterday's game was the first time in history (since pressing systems like this weren't incorporated before) where I've seen United play through the press of a top team. In big games, we usually have had to rely on massive exertion of energy to get through the games before having to deal with lulls where we get peppered, but yesterday, through playing out of the back effectively, we were able to manage Arsenal for most of the game; that's new and not enough people are realizing it.

Why did this happen? Because after spending a few weeks getting used to Onana, we were finally truly able to use Onana's ball playing abilities, which allowed us to keep the ball far longer than we have done in games like this. Why didn't we do this before? Because we didn't have the keeper or central defenders with the confidence to do this, but we can do it now. City and Liverpool have been tiring out our presses and creating gaps in our centre through doing this for years, and for the first time in our history, we are actually able to do this too. That's fantastic and a massive sign of progress.

Last season we did this with our defence and midfield, which allowed us to control games and was the reason for the home form we enjoyed. In my opinion, this will help us in a lot of our more difficult away games with high pressure teams which we've struggled with for years.

Yesterday exposed another problem we've had for years, since Lukaku left, with our attack. Depending on Bruno to drop things on a plate for our attackers to create anything. Yesterday's game made me realize that we've been wasting years without a striker. We've had Ronaldo, Martial and Rashford playing that role without truly being true strikers. Hojlund came in, and you could see the clear lines and link up. You could see a proper target for our attackers and you could see the movement created for himself and others with the small sample size. We spent 25 years with Sir Alex where he focused so heavily on getting really good strikers and ensuring they had good rotations only to not have those things for almost 5 seasons. People lambast our decisions in the final third, but haven't realized that most of that comes as a result of having no proper presence in the box to play with. Hence, having to play almost individually in attack.

My point here is that with this realization ( and potentially getting depth there in future), I feel we will also improve significantly in attack. This will help our away form as we wouldn't be relying on complete dominance or moments of brilliance to ensure away goals.

Fans need to understand how poorly made our team was for modern football prior to ETH's arrival and how much has been already achieved. The progress isn't linear and ETH isn't perfect, like any other manager. There are system tweaks and changes that won't work, there are players that we sign that won't work and there are in game decisions that are made that won't work, but it's all part of the process and learning. No manager is that exceptional, Pep literally had to tweak systems and sell players to get this current shape that led to the treble. Prior to that he experimented with a 4231 and has even experimented with a 352. Add that to the fact that we've suffered a lot of injuries, and are having to rely on the depth that Ten Haag banked on. Despite not having Mount, Varane, Shaw, Malacia, Amad, Amrabat and Hojlund for most of the season so far, we've been able to pull out really good starting xi's. That's a sign of how far we've come and how much we haven't had the chance to do yet due to all the changes
Some good points.
 
If you listen to the Arsenal fans we were batterd from the 1st whistle, etc etc etc... I don't know what game they watched. 2 goals in the last knocking of injury time.. oh and you can score a goal with your head? So why wasn't the offside line drawn there ? It's a strange one .
 
But it’s no fun any more

That's because you still care. It helps to look at it as like a hobby. It's like bird watching, I United watch. Maybe the birds will get snatched by a cat or maybe they'll do OK, either way, I've got something to talk about on the Monday at work.
 
If you listen to the Arsenal fans we were batterd from the 1st whistle, etc etc etc... I don't know what game they watched. 2 goals in the last knocking of injury time.. oh and you can score a goal with your head? So why wasn't the offside line drawn there ? It's a strange one .

Arsenal fans are probably the most deluded fanbase there is. There's a reason their fan channel became the most famous (by far).
 
Not good enough on the whole but we were robbed way harder with VAR than Wolves did in that fateful game at Old Trafford that had every pundit in the universe in tears about the state of football. 100% should complain to the ref panel or whoever the feck it is just to prove a point. That’s Spurs and Arsenal away we’ve been fecked by decisions in already and we’re not even 5 games into the season
 
Look at Mou’s first year at Chelsea, for the largest part it was score a goal and then park the bus, hardly glory ball that’s beautiful on the eye.

Well that’s rewriting history. They averaged two goals a game for starters. They were also pretty entertaining. Odd comment.
 
We were pretty good for large parts of the game.

Onana caused Arsenal to rethink their approach. Martinelli will never have a tougher game this year. Dalot got the best of Saka while out of position. Our midfield competed and wasn’t worse than theirs. Antony had a great game as a ball carrier, less so as an impactful winger. Rashford looked dangerous.

The game was small margins and 1-2 or 3-1 didn’t look all that different.

That Arsenal backline of White, Gabriel, Saliba, Zinchenko is properly brilliant though. Lord knows why Arteta is fecking with it. White could do the job he’s asking Partey to do. The fella is brilliant.
 
I thought we did ok yesterday at times but there were too many many times where our players were just stood still watching Arsenal pass the ball around instead of closing them down and trying to win the ball back.

Erik's team selection for this game was baffling, why play a RB at LB and leave a fully fit expirianced LB sat on the bench and why start with Martial who cobtributes absolutely nothing and leave a proper number 9 you paid a lot of money for sat on the bench

The ref and VAR had a really poor game with the overturned penalty probably being the only thing it got right, we should have had a penalty for the foul on Hojlund, Garnacho looked onside, and the 2nd Arsenal goal should at the very least have been subjected to an on-field review for the foul on Evans.

Because that experienced LB on the bench arrived only a day before the game and is not even familiar with the tactics enough.
 
That's because you still care. It helps to look at it as like a hobby. It's like bird watching, I United watch. Maybe the birds will get snatched by a cat or maybe they'll do OK, either way, I've got something to talk about on the Monday at work.

Haha. Well said mate. I try to get there every year but just can't yet. Maybe one day. Watching Garnacho kiss the badge then the overturn still is killing me......
 
We were pretty good for large parts of the game.

Onana caused Arsenal to rethink their approach. Martinelli will never have a tougher game this year. Dalot got the best of Saka while out of position. Our midfield competed and wasn’t worse than theirs. Antony had a great game as a ball carrier, less so as an impactful winger. Rashford looked dangerous.

The game was small margins and 1-2 or 3-1 didn’t look all that different.

That Arsenal backline of White, Gabriel, Saliba, Zinchenko is properly brilliant though. Lord knows why Arteta is fecking with it. White could do the job he’s asking Partey to do. The fella is brilliant.

He's an awesome player. Very underrated in my humble opinion.
 
The performance was hardly beautiful but it was effective until stoppage time. We had them by the balls when Garnacho scored but an absurd offside call kept it 1-1 and Arsenal took its scalp in stoppage time. Jonny was rugby tackled but don’t expect the referees to see that one, or the blatant foul on Hojlund in the box.

A bit worrying that our new shot stopper has conceded 7 goals in the last 3 matches.
 

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  • 14% Arsenal 3:1 Man Utd
  • 12% Arsenal 1:2 Man Utd
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  • 0% Arsenal 2:4 Man Utd
  • 0% Arsenal 1:4 Man Utd
  • 0% Arsenal 6:1 Man Utd
  • 0% Arsenal 3:3 Man Utd
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