[Ixion]

Van Gaal on RVP: He was one of three players on the pitch for Manchester United who were good or maybe very good. He had a great influence on the result and until now it is his best performance.

(I assume Young and DDG were the other two)

 

[saivet]

Van Gaal on RVP: He was one of three players on the pitch for Manchester United who were good or maybe very good. He had a great influence on the result and until now it is his best performance.

(I assume Young and DDG were the other two)

It's quite funny, but I saw Henry Winter tweet last night that he thought Rooney was possibly one of the two

 

[Getsme]

Yes but realistically we'd need to move Rooney up front and play 4231 for Mata to be effective. Alternatively we could try 4312/41212 again because he looked very comfortable in that formation. 433 or 352 and Mata won't work out, in 433 there's no position in midfield he could occupy and he's not a winger, in 352 he is left with not enough choices.

Indeed, its a pickle.

 

[Gorefest]

3 points from a very difficult match away from home. I don't care how. RvP was majestic and Young had a good game. The rest were terrible! Good times!

As much as I hate to say it, you're selling Fellaini short there.

 

[Gerald G]

Poor performance. Bin the formation. De Gea, Young, van Persie the only good players. Everyone else was under-par. But the 3 points are the most important and now we have opened up gap between us and our serious rivals for top 4.

5 points ahead of Arsenal, 7 points ahead of Liverpool + Tottenham and 10 points ahead of Everton. Good stuff.

Southampton area good side and they showed it again last night but I don't think they'll be rivalling us for the top four.

 

[Dylan94]

We didn't play well. Particularly in the first half. But for me luck doesn't really come into it. We deserved to win because we took our chances. Southampton didn't. You can say lucky if we got a dodgy penalty or refereeing decision or something but we didn't. We did get away with murder as Gary said last night but I wouldn't say that we got lucky at all. You have to take your chances at this level and if you don't then you won't win the game. Simple as that.

 

[Rolandofgilead]

Southampton only opened one exit for away fans last night, it was fecking dangerous, they only opened a second exit when we kicked off to police once we got out.

The performance was so bad it was laughable, proper smash and grab job.

 

[ravelston]

We didn't play well. Particularly in the first half. But for me luck doesn't really come into it. We deserved to win because we took our chances. Southampton didn't. You can say lucky if we got a dodgy penalty or refereeing decision or something but we didn't. We did get away with murder as Gary said last night but I wouldn't say that we got lucky at all. You have to take your chances at this level and if you don't then you won't win the game. Simple as that.

My view also. Neither of our goals was lucky - we just took what was given - and we weren't lucky to hold Southampton to one - we defended well in depth. It wasn't pretty but we did what was needed to win the game.

 

[Bilbo]

My view also. Neither of our goals was lucky - we just took what was given - and we weren't lucky to hold Southampton to one - we defended well in depth. It wasn't pretty but we did what was needed to win the game.

I think its luck. Aside from the chances that Southampton had, they had so many opportunities where a final pass was overhit/underhit. We were lucky that they didn't have the quality in those moments to punish us, because that was a performance that deserved to be punished. I think on the balance of play we win maybe 2 out of 10 of those matches.

 

[The Purley King]

Worst performance for a while imo and we were lucky to get away with a win. On another day we could have lost that 2 or 3 nil.
Without Di Maria we look a little laboured going forward. With Rooney & RVP we have no pace up front and that inhibits us.
Hopefully we'll step it up on Sunday as you can be sure that Liverpool will........

 

[ravelston]

I think its luck. Aside from the chances that Southampton had, they had so many opportunities where a final pass was overhit/underhit. We were lucky that they didn't have the quality in those moments to punish us, because that was a performance that deserved to be punished. I think on the balance of play we win maybe 2 out of 10 of those matches.

That an opponent is not sufficiently skillful to beat you is not luck - if you follow that line of logic you can ascribe all our wins to luck. We were lucky QPR weren't as skillful as Bayern - if they had been we'd never have won. We play the other teams in our league, not an imaginary collection of perfect players. Our defense was quite sufficient against the team we actually played - De Gea didn't need to perform miracles. LvG has us organised defensively to be very hard to break down. We've played against all the other five teams in the top 6 and let in just one goal against each of them. It's not luck, it's organisation.

 

[Scarlett Dracarys]

Winning the ugly way but it's still a win. DeGea is always my favorite to watch these days. I hope he stays for a while.

 

[Bilbo]

That an opponent is not sufficiently skillful to beat you is not luck - if you follow that line of logic you can ascribe all our wins to luck. We were lucky QPR weren't as skillful as Bayern - if they had been we'd never have won. We play the other teams in our league, not an imaginary collection of perfect players. Our defense was quite sufficient against the team we actually played - De Gea didn't need to perform miracles. LvG has us organised defensively to be very hard to break down. We've played against all the other five teams in the top 6 and let in just one goal against each of them. It's not luck, it's organisation.

Are you just arguing for the sake of arguing? Our back line was all over the place last night. The line I've bolded above is just ridiculous. There simply isn't any way that you could watch that game and think we were organised.

 

[ravelston]

Are you just arguing for the sake of arguing? Our back line was all over the place last night. The line I've bolded above is just ridiculous. There simply isn't any way that you could watch that game and think we were organised.

Defense is not the back line, it's the entire team when the opponents have the ball. The back line was not as good as it has been of late - Evans, Carrick and Rojo probably haven't trained together all that much. It remains the case that our defensive structure, as a whole, is difficult to break down. LvG's focus on angles makes it very hard for teams to find a killing pass.

 

[Bilbo]

Defense is not the back line, it's the entire team when the opponents have the ball. The back line was not as good as it has been of late - Evans, Carrick and Rojo probably haven't trained together all that much. It remains the case that our defensive structure, as a whole, is difficult to break down. LvG's focus on angles makes it very hard for teams to find a killing pass.

I think we will have to agree to disagree on this one. I'm genuinely baffled at how you could watch our last two away matches and claim that we are a difficult side to break down. I feel very confident that, should we continue with this formation, Leicester won't be the only team that put 5 past us this season.

 

[sizzling sausages]

I think its luck. Aside from the chances that Southampton had, they had so many opportunities where a final pass was overhit/underhit. We were lucky that they didn't have the quality in those moments to punish us, because that was a performance that deserved to be punished. I think on the balance of play we win maybe 2 out of 10 of those matches.

Agreed. Saying we deserved to win because Southampton didn't take their chances is nonsense IMO.

 

[Sarni]

Southampton were shit in front of goal, we were shit all over the pitch. I don't buy into the argument that there's no luck in football.

 

[KeninDC]

Three cliches spring to mind:

I'd rather be lucky than good: Lefty Gomez
The harder I work, the luckier I get: Samuel Goldwyn
Luck is the residue of design: Branch Rickey

Nothing wrong with being lucky, but sometimes luck doesn't happen by chance. RvP buried both his chances-that's not luck. The team gave up one goal on a mess in the box. Soton had a couple of chances and didn't convert. That's their problem-and not a result of being unlucky. And considering we changed 2/3 of our back line within 43 minutes-thought the defending improved during the second half.

LvG knows, as does everyone else that United need to play better. Still- a good result and our place in the table is nothing to sneeze at.

 

[MoskvaRed]

It wasn't pretty but it's still 3 points away to one of the better teams in the league. And it was achieved without the three big summer signings of Di Maria, Blind and Shaw, plus our experienced defenders being injured. In other words, last year's side plus Rojo and minus the three senior defenders who departed last summer. The winning mentality is coming back. Performances will follow once we can start to field the same side (which may require a new defender or two).

 

[Andy_Cole]

Three cliches spring to mind:

I'd rather be lucky than good: Lefty Gomez
The harder I work, the luckier I get: Samuel Goldwyn
Luck is the residue of design: Branch Rickey

Nothing wrong with being lucky, but sometimes luck doesn't happen by chance. RvP buried both his chances-that's not luck. The team gave up one goal on a mess in the box. Soton had a couple of chances and didn't convert. That's their problem-and not a result of being unlucky. And considering we changed 2/3 of our back line within 43 minutes-thought the defending improved during the second half.

LvG knows, as does everyone else that United need to play better. Still- a good result and our place in the table is nothing to sneeze at.

Hate the word luck in football. Annoyed me so much last season we had bad luck. No, Moyes was just shite. This year it's good luck, no we have clearly worked on attacking and being clinical. Which has won us games. Also not luck we have a world class goalkeeper too. It's just de Gae being better than the opposition striker. Okay we're not playing well but it's not luck that we're winning, it's by being clinical and having a great goalkeeper.

 

[Bilbo]

Luck plays a massive part in football. Call it variance if you don't like the word luck, but its all one and the same.

Do you think our game plan last night was to create only two chances and score them both, while presenting the opposition with a high number of inviting opportunities and hope that they squander them?

Lets not try to sugarcoat what happened last night. It was an awful performance and we were so fortunate to take the three points that we should have been wearing masks. We can happily take the win and move on. For the wider question of 'are we improving?' though, it was definitely a step backwards despite the result.

 

[NK86]

Luck plays a massive part in football. Call it variance if you don't like the word luck, but its all one and the same.

Do you think our game plan last night was to create only two chances and score them both, while presenting the opposition with a high number of inviting opportunities and hope that they squander them?

Lets not try to sugarcoat what happened last night. It was an awful performance and we were so fortunate to take the three points that we should have been wearing masks. We can happily take the win and move on. For the wider question of 'are we improving?' though, it was definitely a step backwards despite the result.

I am not sure if it's a step backward, seeing that we have so many injuries in our squad currently. Though this 3-5-2 formation seems to stifle any creativity in our squad and makes us more vulnerable at the back. Valencia and Young just don't work out as wing backs. At least Young does some semblance of attacking. Valencia simply has forgotten what it was to be a winger once.

 

[Spoony]

Luck plays a massive part in football. Call it variance if you don't like the word luck, but its all one and the same.

Do you think our game plan last night was to create only two chances and score them both, while presenting the opposition with a high number of inviting opportunities and hope that they squander them?

Lets not try to sugarcoat what happened last night. It was an awful performance and we were so fortunate to take the three points that we should have been wearing masks. We can happily take the win and move on. For the wider question of 'are we improving?' though, it was definitely a step backwards despite the result.

I agree with all that. See, that's my gripe as well. Sure, we won, and yes we've won 5 games in a row. But can we honestly see an improvement on last season? I can't. I'm not too concerned about results at the moment, I'd like to see us head in the right direction with better performances.

 

[Shimo]

We had a winning streak into December last year if I remember correctly but, the performances were not all that. Once we lost - think to Spurs, it just spiraled from there. Winning is great but, the performances also need to start being better otherwise the team as they've shown when we get into a pressure situation tend to lose confidence and not play the way they know how. Also, the more poor performances we give - the more it gives others confidence they can get to us. When City/Chelsea give a bad performance, teams aren't thinking oh we can get to them now but, can bet the likes of Liverpool and others right now are thinking right now - we can get these guys, this is not a good team, this is a team that can't handle pressure or create.

LVG was right when he answered the question about if we have momentum now that we've won 5 in a row by saying no, not on that performance. We can only say we've got momentum when we put together a string of wins on the back of good - not great but, just solid performances.

 

[Shark]

I agree with all that. See, that's my gripe as well. Sure, we won, and yes we've won 5 games in a row. But can we honestly see an improvement on last season? I can't. I'm not too concerned about results at the moment, I'd like to see us head in the right direction with better performances.

We created bugger all chances last season up front, routinely went a goal down first and still created bugger all. The Fulham game at Old Trafford was possibly the worst performance I've seen from us, ever.

I don't agree with that at all. Especially if we're talking about the games vs the bigger teams and performances in general at Old Trafford.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

The negativity here is baffling. We got a bit lucky. So fecking what? We've had enough bad luck in recent times. Look at our injury record this season ffs. And those who can't see an improvement in our performances from last season are being ignorant.

 

[Massive Spanner]

I agree with all that. See, that's my gripe as well. Sure, we won, and yes we've won 5 games in a row. But can we honestly see an improvement on last season? I can't. I'm not too concerned about results at the moment, I'd like to see us head in the right direction with better performances.

Hull at home was far better than anything we saw under Moyes last season. We also put up a far better performance and fight against Chelsea than we did against the big hitters last season, too.

Most importantly, we're able to win even though we don't play well, did that ever happen under Moyes?

We've quite blatantly improved despite awful injuries, not sure how people can't see that.

 

[Dion]

We had a winning streak into December last year if I remember correctly but, the performances were not all that. Once we lost - think to Spurs, it just spiraled from there.

We won 4 games in a row (Villa, West Ham, Hull and Norwich) after the Spurs loss under Moyes we picked up 1.6 points per game (and if we include the results after Moyes' sacking thats closer to 1.7). Before the Spurs loss we had been averaging just under 1.8 points per game, we really didn't fall off that much we just never improved.

We're not playing free flowing football, but we've regained a bit of bite and mental strength and looked at least competitive against our direct rivals. I'm not sure what more you can ask after 16 competitive fixtures and 43 injuries.

 

[Getsme]

The negativity here is baffling. We got a bit lucky. So fecking what? We've had enough bad luck in recent times. Look at our injury record this season ffs. And those who can't see an improvement in our performances from last season are being ignorant.

The place wouldn't be the same without a good old moan. Have to agree though, we played with two wingers as full backs a 19 year old who has played four or five games for us as CB, we had a team without most of this season’s signings and we still managed to win. We are going to need a bit of luck to get us through our injury nightmare.

 

[Shimo]

We won 4 games in a row (Villa, West Ham, Hull and Norwich) after the Spurs loss under Moyes we picked up 1.6 points per game (and if we include the results after Moyes' sacking thats closer to 1.7). Before the Spurs loss we had been averaging just under 1.8 points per game, we really didn't fall off that much we just never improved.

We're not playing free flowing football, but we've regained a bit of bite and mental strength and looked at least competitive against our direct rivals. I'm not sure what more you can ask after 16 competitive fixtures and 43 injuries.

From January on you could just see the lack of belief in the team overall - that stemmed from a bad start to January even though we had been on an supposedly on an upward swing prior. The point is while we are winning now, that bite/mental strength is fleeting from game to game or even within games when we are under pressure.

No doubt there is improvement but, the injuries and constant rejig of formations - especially to this 3-5-2 - is not helping in build any kind of continuity, it's not helping us build up that fear factor in the opposition. Don't think it's negativity - to me it's being more realistic, we've got a lot of work left to do despite getting some good results recently.

As what more can we ask for after 16 fixtures and 43 injuries (or is it 44?) - not much except to not confuse our good position as an indication of that we are completely on the right track. A lot of our normal competitors are doing a lot more shit than expected, so are a tad fortunate.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

There has been a definite improvement. The atmosphere at the club between the players and coaching staff is 100% better, last season it was poisonous. The team now have heart and fight in them, that comes from the manager. We now have a manager who makes mistakes but has the knowledge on how to put it right. At last the club have realised you have to spend serious money to get the players you need, no more penny pinching. The matter about style of play, yes it's not great, but results are paramount. We have to get back in the CL by fair means or foul. Once we are there we can adapt our playing style to suit.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

From January on you could just see the lack of belief in the team overall - that stemmed from a bad start to January even though we had been on an supposedly on an upward swing prior. The point is while we are winning now, that bite/mental strength is fleeting from game to game or even within games when we are under pressure.

No doubt there is improvement but, the injuries and constant rejig of formations - especially to this 3-5-2 - is not helping in build any kind of continuity, it's not helping us build up that fear factor in the opposition. Don't think it's negativity - to me it's being more realistic, we've got a lot of work left to do despite getting some good results recently.

As what more can we ask for after 16 fixtures and 43 injuries (or is it 44?) - not much except to not confuse our good position as an indication of that we are completely on the right track. A lot of our normal competitors are doing a lot more shit than expected, so are a tad fortunate.

Difference from last season, if that if we go a goal down I do not feel it is all over. Last season their heads would drop and that was that. These players and manager will not give up and are fighting tooth and nail to get the results. LvG is also bringing back a connection with the fans and players. The players really appreciated the support they are getting. Last season they were too busy moaning and stabbing everyone in the back to give a damn about the fans.

Also the manager and players are not satisfied with the form. They could easily say everything is rosy but they want more and more. That is really good to see, a hunger back in the team.

 

[Americano]

One of our problems is that our players are a bit too inconsistent, I don't know why.

The constant changes in defensive setup and personnel aren't helping. There are too many moving parts too early in the coach's tenure and we're seeing the downside of it at times.

 

[bucky]

I agree with all that. See, that's my gripe as well. Sure, we won, and yes we've won 5 games in a row. But can we honestly see an improvement on last season? I can't. I'm not too concerned about results at the moment, I'd like to see us head in the right direction with better performances.

I honestly don't get that. Go back to January or February and ask yourself, if you'd rather see results than good performances. I remember quite well, that people would have liked more of an effort from our players and still losing than what actually happened then. It wasn't even about results or good performances anymore, while Moyes occassionally came out with we played well, when we clearly didn't do that. See the difference? What van Gaal is saying in post match interviews even when we are playing well is massively different to what Moyes was saying, when we were getting results. Van Gaal wasn't happy with the performance just like you and he's calling it as it is afterwards, while it's save to say that Moyes would have sugarcoated it.

Our players won't get confidence from games where we play quite well and still lose, that would work for a team fighting against relegation, which we clearly don't do. We haven't consistently been playing well for some time now, but with Sir Alex Ferguson, we at least got the results and given the circumstances of massive changes to the dressing room and injuries, I'm alright with playing with like we did or do and still getting the results, especially with Liverpool coming up. We can focus on good performances, when qualification for the Champions League is a safe bet. With Moyes it always was one step ahead two steps back, everyone was saying and seeing it, van Gaal has managed to do something Moyes never could. The fact that you aren't concerned about results and instead prioritise on good performances is still an improvement to last season.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

I'd say it was more like 2-3 feet wide, it'd be difficult for the ball to bend onto the side netting from 6 feet wide.

haha fair point, although it certainly possible the wider the angle gets. 6 feet isn't that long, its only like my d*ck x6

 

[Dylan94]

I think we will have to agree to disagree on this one. I'm genuinely baffled at how you could watch our last two away matches and claim that we are a difficult side to break down. I feel very confident that, should we continue with this formation, Leicester won't be the only team that put 5 past us this season.

Clearly we have become so otherwise we wouldn't have won 5 out of our last 5.

 

[Dylan94]

Luck plays a massive part in football. Call it variance if you don't like the word luck, but its all one and the same.

Do you think our game plan last night was to create only two chances and score them both, while presenting the opposition with a high number of inviting opportunities and hope that they squander them?

Lets not try to sugarcoat what happened last night. It was an awful performance and we were so fortunate to take the three points that we should have been wearing masks. We can happily take the win and move on. For the wider question of 'are we improving?' though, it was definitely a step backwards despite the result.

No. But I still maintain that we weren't lucky to win last night. Southampton played well throughout the first half and didn't take advantage of that by scoring goals. That's not luck, that's lacking in quality. And in the 2nd half we got more solid defensively as the game went on and Southampton actually didn't do that much after the break apart from the first 5-10 minutes. Of course there's luck in football as there is in any sport. But we weren't lucky to win last night.

 

[ravelston]

Three cliches spring to mind:

I'd rather be lucky than good: Lefty Gomez
The harder I work, the luckier I get: Samuel Goldwyn
Luck is the residue of design: Branch Rickey

Nothing wrong with being lucky, but sometimes luck doesn't happen by chance. RvP buried both his chances-that's not luck. The team gave up one goal on a mess in the box. Soton had a couple of chances and didn't convert. That's their problem-and not a result of being unlucky. And considering we changed 2/3 of our back line within 43 minutes-thought the defending improved during the second half.

LvG knows, as does everyone else that United need to play better. Still- a good result and our place in the table is nothing to sneeze at.

Brilliant post. Thank you. I would only change one word - they are aphorisms not cliches. The Branch Rickey quote totally sums up the difference between this year and last, particularly in combination with the Goldwynism.

 

[WyoManU]

Finally had the chance to see the match. I thought we were very poor, to be honest. It was nice to see RVP contribute in the match, and I don't mean his goals. His hold-up play was actually pretty good. Most of our players were bad and we only managed two shots on goal in the entire match. That is disgraceful. Fellaini was particularly awful, though there was plenty to go around. We gave the ball away time and time again in dangerous positions. If not for DDG, yet again, I am certain we lose. I thought we were very, very fortunate to win. 3 points is great, but we are STILL not playing good football. Maybe another $250 million will help? Sad, really.

 

[Raoul]

Finally had the chance to see the match. I thought we were very poor, to be honest. It was nice to see RVP contribute in the match, and I don't mean his goals. His hold-up play was actually pretty good. Most of our players were bad and we only managed two shots on goal in the entire match. That is disgraceful. Fellaini was particularly awful, though there was plenty to go around. We gave the ball away time and time again in dangerous positions. If not for DDG, yet again, I am certain we lose. I thought we were very, very fortunate to win. 3 points is great, but we are STILL not playing good football. Maybe another $250 million will help? Sad, really.

Definitely, especially in the first half. Thought we were a bit better in the 2nd.

As for the bolded bit, half our squad has been missing for much of the year so it wouldn't make sense to throw more money at the problem. We just need a healthy squad.