Post match v Liverpool

Dansk said:
How the feck does something like this even happen? What on Earth can go so wrong that a team in great form, placed third in the league, can lose 7-0 to a team that has been in relegation form since the start of the year? Can anyone attempt to explain that?

And why does this sort of thing only ever seem to happen to United? What is it about this club that mysteriously makes these historically disastrous results happen? This doesn't happen to other clubs. It's literally just United. Why? What's causing it? Why do we seem to have several games every season that make you wonder if someone drugged the players or something?
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  1. Liverpool blow hot and cold
  2. We were desperately low on confidence fairly recently, and have been building it ever since
  3. We went into the match with fragile over-confidence
  4. Once we went down two goals we played expansively, thinking we're going to pull it out of the fire
  5. Then another conceded and we started doubting ourselves
  6. Another and another, what's the point?
  7. And everything went Liverpool's way
It was one of those, whatever can go wrong will go wrong type of matches.

Mentally, we are still fragile, but I bet if we scored first it would've been a whole different story.
 
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Adnan said:
Then you should blame Erik ten Hag and not Antony. Because we don't commit to a full high press and leave the fullbacks deep. Antony was doing what ten Hag has been asking of his wide attackers from a pressing pov.
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I am not 100% but I feel that the striker is the only one who is pressing the keeper as otherwise we are exposing ourselves too much. I will keep an eye for that in future games.
 
A lot of mistakes were made gifting liverpool the first 3 goals. We make mistakes most games but in general you get away with it. Last ditch tackle, top save by Dave or just poor finishing by the opposition, think back to Antonio shocking finishing in our last game when we gave him a couple of clear chances…

At 3-0 a lot of our team just stopped running. Lost their heads and forgot all the principles. It was a throw back to the shambles of the attitude many had under Rangnik when some players just wouldnt run for him. ETH will analyse the game and identify who is culpable. The question is do they have long term futures at the club, they need to go out now and show they do.

No time for wallowing in self pity, we have to bounce straight back and get top 4. Then Hopefully with new owners in by summer address the weakness in some individuals by replacing them. .
 
Sparky Rhiwabon said:
I feel a bit embarrassed by the over-the-top celebrations over winning the EFL Cup now - this has brought us right back down to Earth, this squad is simply nowhere near good enough
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I think many posters on here are intelligent enough and experienced enough to know that the squad is far from good enough, and yes, a few probably did go OTT on winning the League Cup, but that is our first in 6 years, so I can understand that reaction.
For the record, I didn't expect us to win anything this season, just fight for 4th place, and have a good cup run in the FA cup. Ten Hag and his coaches have worked wonders with this squad, and we may now be paying for not having good enough back ups.
 
The performance yesterday is nearly as bad as me still being a Newbie on this forum even though I joined on Mar 1, 2008 :)
 
Berbasbullet said:
Since the shocking first 2 games we've been right up there in terms of points. I do get where you're coming from and we have loads to improve on, but we are on a good path.
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Yeah undeniable we've been collecting the points, especially since the restart.

But it feels fragile to me. Like things could have conceivably gone a different way.

A bit like Ole's away record. Great results, entertaining, but fragile. Like why did we keep going behind.

Similarly now, we've been massively reliant on one player having the goalscoring run of his life.
 
NinjaZombie said:
We've not passed the ball well since Eriksen got injured.
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Agree. Really missed him. As good as Casemiro is his touch and passing isn't exactly ultra consistent.

Compared to last season the only additions that really help ball retention are Eriksen and Martinez. If one's missing there isn't much difference to last season in terms of looking after the ball.
 
Oh boy, still hurts this morning!

Such a strange game, it just seemed like every shot they had went in!
 
georgipep said:
I am not 100% but I feel that the striker is the only one who is pressing the keeper as otherwise we are exposing ourselves too much. I will keep an eye for that in future games.
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I would call our press a 'hybrid' high press. We don't fully commit and leave our fullbacks deep which can leave the opponent's fullbacks free. Allison unfortunately found Robertson but that doesn't excuse what happened after. It should've been dealt with.

It's why I keep saying that ten Hag is compromising but at the same time still trying to implement his plan. And I believe things will come together next season. I'm extremely disappointed with the result and manner in which we capitulated in the second half, but we're still on course to have a good season and maybe win at least one more trophy.
 
red woppit said:
I think many posters on here are intelligent enough and experienced enough to know that the squad is far from good enough, and yes, a few probably did go OTT on winning the League Cup, but that is our first in 6 years, so I can understand that reaction.
For the record, I didn't expect us to win anything this season, just fight for 4th place, and have a good cup run in the FA cup. Ten Hag and his coaches have worked wonders with this squad, and we may now be paying for not having good enough back ups.
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Yes, agree with all that
 
The morning after the night before and it still is very raw. This team have a long road back to regain the trust of many fans. If a team can go to traditionally our biggest rivals and lie down and give up like that while taking a hammering then how can you trust them when the pressure comes on.
 
Adnan said:
I would call our press a 'hybrid' high press. We don't fully commit and leave our fullbacks deep which can leave the opponent's fullbacks free. Allison unfortunately found Robertson but that doesn't excuse what happened after. It should've been dealt with.

It's why I keep saying that ten Hag is compromising but at the same time still trying to implement his plan. And I believe things will come together next season. I'm extremely disappointed with the result and manner in which we capitulated in the second half, but we're still on course to have a good season and maybe win at least one more trophy.
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As much as I like Antony, something wasn't right yesterday and I doubt he was instructed not to track back.



He was all over the place and, combined with Rashford's lack of tracking and Bruno totally throwing the towel in the second half, it completely ruined any chances we had.

I am thinking that there is a very small chance that Ten Hag instructed both Rashford and Antony to stay upfield to counter but Antony was playing himself offside so many times that if it was indeed tactical, he failed that too.
 
The result was a combination of a few factors.

#1 Liverpool wildly outperforming their xG - it's practically unheard of for a team to score 7 from an xG of ~2.8 goals. 7 goals from 8 shots on target has probably never happened before in the PL. This element was clearly a freak.

#2 The reaction after the 2nd goal - Conceding at the start of the second half immediately threw the HT team talk and plan out the window, and there was no collective readjustment (they should've kept good shape and compactness + try to nick a goal to get back into it). The collective priority at that stage had to be avoiding a damagingly heavy defeat and it's totally unacceptable that caution was thrown to the wind in that regard.

#3 ETH's substitutions. He has to take some of the blame - taking two workhorses in Fred and Weghorst off at 3-0 was clearly not a good move. Garnacho is poor defensively (we saw this v Leicester when his side was torn apart first half). Bringing him on in this situation was clearly an error and sent the wrong message to the team.

#4 Fatigue - I do think playing every 3 days with minimal rotation has caught up with the squad. They looked leggy against Newcastle last week and laboured to victory rather than winning by being decisively on top. The team was in the midst of a drop off in form which had been camouflaged by good results (to their credit).



This is me trying to make some sense of the result, it is by no means a defence. I do believe #2 is ultimately unprofessional and them allowing this result to happen is indefensible and there should be repercussions.
 


This is what happened after 2:0.

Before that, we had a plan, it kind of worked until some silly mistakes. After 2:0, it was an avalanche.
 
It wasn't a "freak 45 minutes".

They got pressed by a team who understood the importance of the game more and wanted to prove a point that was strongly proved. It doesn't completely remove all the good that has happened this season, that good also doesn't mean that you don't include this in the context of how you view these players and the yes the manager moving forward. Unacceptable and will be rightly talked about for a long time.

To me it is very clear what happened, we have been coasting for a few weeks and we accepted that due to the congested fixture list. The cup final was not a great performance despite what was said, Leicester could have been 3 - 0 up, West Ham was a tough win. Liverpool are coming into form, they are still a better squad than us and our lads went into that game feeling they could skate by as they have been for a month bar Barcelona and got exposed.

Anyway it has happened now, we have still had a very good season to this point and this will sting a lot less after a few games. Work to do, on we go.
 
georgipep said:
As much as I like Antony, something wasn't right yesterday and I doubt he was instructed not to track back.



He was all over the place and, combined with Rashford's lack of tracking and Bruno totally throwing the towel in the second half, it completely ruined any chances we had.

I am thinking that there is a very small chance that Ten Hag instructed both Rashford and Antony to stay upfield to counter but Antony was playing himself offside so many times that if it was indeed tactical, he failed that too.
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Antony and Rashford staying upfield was the plan. And up until we gave a silly goal away, things were working out. Our fullbacks stay deeper for that very reason, which provides defensive solidity and allows us to take a chance to leave one of the oppo fullbacks free. But we made a big mess trying to defend a simple attack which started from Allison.
 
I am not happy with the result, but a wake up call like these may be what we need.

A lot of fatique accumutuated over the last two months, I won't blame the manager or the players, we didn't expect thIS position as we are so far in the beginning of the season, we have done exceed our expectation.

A result like these show a lot of investment still needed, in terms of squad depth and the quality, we have played 23 matches in the last 3 months, with no real investment in January window except two loans, I really hope Glazers get his fxxx out of our club asap so that we can plan for the summer, we are 5-6 players away to compete in EPL and also CL (finger crossed) next year!

WE GO AGAIN!
 
ElDiabloRojo said:
Your wrong Trinity.

Why would I only post after losing to the Scouse?
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It was a shit joke that we've lost 711 times to Liverpool since 2008. Because they always fecking beat us

It was shit and i'm probably the real reason you don't post. I suck
 
georgipep said:


This is what happened after 2:0.

Before that, we had a plan, it kind of worked until some silly mistakes. After 2:0, it was an avalanche.
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I wonder what word he'd use for the 8-2 defeat he suffered at Old Trafford.
 
The Corinthian said:
I wonder what word he'd use for the 8-2 defeat he suffered at Old Trafford.
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I find it pointless to go into trashing an opponent. How does that help? Does it make you feel better?

I shared this because I find it relevant to what happened yesterday at Anfield. The fact that it is said by Arteta and we beat them 8:2 some time ago has nothing to do with it.

Or are you offended he didn't say he felt like that when we beat them?
 
OverratedOpinion said:
It wasn't a "freak 45 minutes".

They got pressed by a team who understood the importance of the game more and wanted to prove a point that was strongly proved. It doesn't completely remove all the good that has happened this season, that good also doesn't mean that you don't include this in the context of how you view these players and the yes the manager moving forward. Unacceptable and will be rightly talked about for a long time.

To me it is very clear what happened, we have been coasting for a few weeks and we accepted that due to the congested fixture list. The cup final was not a great performance despite what was said, Leicester could have been 3 - 0 up, West Ham was a tough win. Liverpool are coming into form, they are still a better squad than us and our lads went into that game feeling they could skate by as they have been for a month bar Barcelona and got exposed.

Anyway it has happened now, we have still had a very good season to this point and this will sting a lot less after a few games. Work to do, on we go.
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It is possible to be highly critical of the team and acknowledge that the result was also a freak one.

7 goals from 2.8 xG is a freak output that virtually never happens. This is just a fact and isn't really subjective.

3 or 4-0 wouldn't have been a freak, but 7-0 definitely was.
 
I've just watched the goals back, and my word some of them was to easy. I looked at stats the scum had 8 shot on target and scored 7!! Ffs that's tragic defending, slow to 2nd balls no clearing lines getting caught in transition to sloppy in possession etc etc.
It had to be this game, those guys went to Camp nou and should have won.

Shit field should have been no issues for them and imo it was just one of those days that everything went right for them and wrong for us.
Thursday it has to be put right ETH has done a great job and I bet he's tore them a new one .

For the scum fans and them it's there cup final said as much after it.
 
georgipep said:
I find it pointless to go into trashing an opponent. How does that help? Does it make you feel better?

I shared this because I find it relevant to what happened yesterday at Anfield. The fact that it is said by Arteta and we beat them 8:2 some time ago has nothing to do with it.

Or are you offended he didn't say he felt like that when we beat them?
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Yeah, I actually remember the 8-2 very well and Arsenal were missing half their team and had a European away game a few nights before. We were basically playing the equivalent of a lower midtable team that day when you look at what they had out on the pitch. It definitely isn't comparable to yesterday or other hammerings.
 
HarryP said:
It is possible to be highly critical of the team and acknowledge that the result was also a freak one.

7 goals from 2.8 xG is a freak output that virtually never happens. This is just a fact and isn't really subjective.

3 or 4-0 wouldn't have been a freak, but 7-0 definitely was.
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Does it matter? They battered us.
 
RedIan said:
A lot of mistakes were made gifting liverpool the first 3 goals. We make mistakes most games but in general you get away with it. Last ditch tackle, top save by Dave or just poor finishing by the opposition, think back to Antonio shocking finishing in our last game when we gave him a couple of clear chances…

At 3-0 a lot of our team just stopped running. Lost their heads and forgot all the principles. It was a throw back to the shambles of the attitude many had under Rangnik when some players just wouldnt run for him. ETH will analyse the game and identify who is culpable. The question is do they have long term futures at the club, they need to go out now and show they do.

No time for wallowing in self pity, we have to bounce straight back and get top 4. Then Hopefully with new owners in by summer address the weakness in some individuals by replacing them. .
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Good assessment.
What is most important is for EtH to correctly identify the causes of this defeat.
We can all speculate:
But after winning the League Cup, lack of confidence can not be one of them.
To me the key issue was lack of concentration as well as lack of intensity.
Everything followed from that. Mistake after mistake led to the players losing their heads.
Just a terrible terrible performance.
 
Obviously the performance (which bordered on unprofessional all round) and the result were totally unacceptable and no one at all came out with even the slightest amount of credit, but the strides ETH and the team have made, for me, has put credit in the bank. I wan't to vomit ever time I think of the scoreline - and lots of radio stations and TV channels are harping on about the number seven, but I'm more interested in how we react to Sunday. In the past, we have let this sort of thing affect us for far too long and become sullen and sulky. I like to think -- and hope - ETH has changed that already. Indeed, Sunday was the first time in ages that when we have been behind heads have dropped and the spirit disappeared.

Good wins on Thursday (I notice that yet again Liverpool have midweek rest) and on Saturday will tell us lots about where we are. And if Liverpool think this means they will beat Madrid, City and Arsenal in coming weeks, they need their heads examining.

Let's see where we are when ETH hs (hopefully) been at the club as long as Klopp has been at Anfield.

As for the game itself, obviously the defending was comical, DDG looked back to his disinterested phase but Liverpool did have some luck later on with where rebounds landed. The damage was done by the first two goals and neither of those should have been conceded. But I stick by a belief that if we had a Harry Kane in the side, we'd have been two up by then and not sure Liverpool's confidence and psyche would have seen them come back from that. For the millioneth time, I say "we need a proper striker"
 
HarryP said:
Yeah, it matters.

It'd be far more concerning if they won 7-0 from an xG of ~5 or more. But they didn't, they got it from 8 shots on target which is a total freak.
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Why does it matter?

They battered us. Of all the victories we have had this season have you gone back and checked that xg agreed with the result before you celebrated?

You are making excuses to make yourself feel better. Mate I get it, it is just easier to admit what happened. They bullied us and beat us comfortably.
 
Adnan said:
Antony and Rashford staying upfield was the plan. And up until we gave a silly goal away, things were working out. Our fullbacks stay deeper for that very reason, which provides defensive solidity and allows us to take a chance to leave one of the oppo fullbacks free. But we made a big mess trying to defend a simple attack which started from Allison.
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Maybe till the first goal but after the second and third surely Anthony must realise Dalot is getting the run around?
 
OverratedOpinion said:
Why does it matter?

They battered us. Of all the victories we have had this season have you gone back and checked that xg agreed with the result before you celebrated?

You are making excuses to make yourself feel better. Mate I get it, it is just easier to admit what happened. They bullied us and beat us comfortably.
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They did batter us but normally an xG of 2.8 would result in a 5 goal haul max. Sometimes teams don't score at all with that xG.

I'm not trying to make myself feel better or deny that they battered us, I'm just acknowledging that 7 was a freak.
 
HarryP said:
They did batter us but normally an xG of 2.8 would result in a 5 goal haul max. Sometimes teams don't score at all with that xG.

I'm not trying to make myself feel better or deny that they battered us, I'm just acknowledging that 7 was a freak.
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Fine let's imagine Liverpool beat us 5-0 instead.

That is much better.
 
Danny said:
Maybe till the first goal but after the second and third surely Anthony must realise Dalot is getting the run around?
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Not sure he should go disobey instructions, but they weren't damaging us that much prior to their goal.

Yeah they got some half-chances, but we had the clearer chances.
 
HarryP said:
The result was a combination of a few factors.

#1 Liverpool wildly outperforming their xG - it's practically unheard of for a team to score 7 from an xG of ~2.8 goals. 7 goals from 8 shots on target has probably never happened before in the PL. This element was clearly a freak.

#2 The reaction after the 2nd goal - Conceding at the start of the second half immediately threw the HT team talk and plan out the window, and there was no collective readjustment (they should've kept good shape and compactness + try to nick a goal to get back into it). The collective priority at that stage had to be avoiding a damagingly heavy defeat and it's totally unacceptable that caution was thrown to the wind in that regard.

#3 ETH's substitutions. He has to take some of the blame - taking two workhorses in Fred and Weghorst off at 3-0 was clearly not a good move. Garnacho is poor defensively (we saw this v Leicester when his side was torn apart first half). Bringing him on in this situation was clearly an error and sent the wrong message to the team.

#4 Fatigue - I do think playing every 3 days with minimal rotation has caught up with the squad. They looked leggy against Newcastle last week and laboured to victory rather than winning by being decisively on top. The team was in the midst of a drop off in form which had been camouflaged by good results (to their credit).



This is me trying to make some sense of the result, it is by no means a defence. I do believe #2 is ultimately unprofessional and them allowing this result to happen is indefensible and there should be repercussions.
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Good post.

We were well on top at Anfield and missed several good chances. Then they sucker punched either side of half time with some excellent finishes, as we switched off (something which is happening far too often).

They are a counter attacking side and excellent against a high line, and we needed desperately to push forward and score. We lost our heads after the second (and after missing another great opportunity), including our senior players. After the third, an experienced player should have gone down for a few minutes and allowed Ten Hag to regroup, but the players wanted the match to be over. The Liverpool players didn't.

Despite this, so many of their goals were so fortuitous, that I think xG is an overrepresentation of the reality. Several ricochets which bounced straight to them in dangerous positions, scuffed shots which our unbalanced defenders would normally clear.

We have lessons to learn about mentality, work rate and pride, but the size of the loss was a freak result. Unless our players were extremely fatigued (possible), I think we could have got a point or three if we scored when we were dominating in the first half.
 
Danny said:
Maybe till the first goal but after the second and third surely Anthony must realise Dalot is getting the run around?
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At that point we'd lost our discipline as a team. And positionslly we were all over the place due some players giving up and others losing their heads.
 
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