Post Match United v Blackburn

Twigginater said:
I don't know what some of you expected. We HAD to play players out of position today, because we had no-one fit. We HAD to experiment. If Rafael was RB, Valencia was in the centre. If we had Carrick in CM, rafael had to mark Yakubu.
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A win.

Like myself I suppose every punter and bookie expected the same despite our well documented injury problems. Blackburn also had their share of players out today. If you expected anything other than a win I bow to your foresight. I hope you put your house on a Blackburn win.
 
I find most of the comments are cringe worthy. The injury and sickness list is huge. Coaches trust that players can do a job and these days all players need to be capable of handling multiple positions but at the same time when you look at the list of injuries and illness to the squad fans seriously need to keep things in context.

Some of the shit written in this thread makes RAWK look sensible.

Shame, that word should be applied to the fans

7even said:
Agree with everybody's comments.

One word to our players. Shame.
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Pogue Mahone said:
The bottom line is does anyone seriously think Fergie wouldn't have selected Anderson to start ahead of Rafael if he could?
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Of course not. He obviously wasn't able to start the game. I can't believe that point is even being debated to be honest. It's ridiculous.

People are seriously scraping the barrel in their desire to blame Fergie for a defeat when they're calling for the likes of Zeki fecking Fryers to start at centre-back and Anderson to start in central midfield after six weeks out injured.
 
Every team United send out is expected to win. However, it so happens it does not always transpire. The forum exists to carry out post mortems. ;)
 
Surprised no one has mentioned Hernandez much these last few games. He's been awful.
 
GCHQ said:
That's true. I thought his first half performance, where he constantly dropped deep and offered about as much creativity as Emile Heskey on a bad day, was a far bigger issue for us than Park and Rafael in CM.
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Hernandez with the ball outside the box is a pub player. He needs to improve this part of his game quickly.
 
It's always easy to say things like this after a game or a bad game but i don't know what was wrong with Fergie today!!!

Yes we've many many injuries at the moment but how it is possible he thought Park and Rafael in CM are a good option???

Even Liam Miller would be a better option in CM for us right now.
 
golden_blunder said:
got what we deserved
this policy of believing that putting square pegs into round holes is good enough to beat 'smaller' teams has been found out..again
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Agreed. To think some serious posters suggested Berbatov in defence for the Blackburn game... ludicrous.
 
I felt there were a few mistakes made.

The lineup wasn't really one of them. I don't think it was putting square pegs in round holes for the sake of it - our hand was forced The only different approach that could have been taken was starting Anderson in place of Rafael/Valencia (with whichever one of those two was still on the pitch playing RB). We started with

De Gea
Valencia Jones Carrick Evra
Park Rafael
Nani Berbatov Welbeck
Hernandez​

Which should have been good enough to beat Blackburn (but then I reckon my 5 a side team would give Blackburn a good run as well).

However,

1. Berbatov on Samba at set plays - Samba is one of the best attacking headers of the ball in the Premier League, surely we should have put our biggest lump on him (Carrick or Jones)

2. Bringing de Gea back for this specific game - given that we know his strengths (shot stopping, distribution etc) and his main weakness (dealing with the physicality of the PL) why would we bring him back after a few games against a team that is notorious for having well worked and physically demanding set pieces (ie smash into the keeper as hard as possible)?

Sean_RedDevil said:
Even Liam Miller would be a better option in CM for us right now.
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I watched him play yesterday, and he really wouldn't be
 
Sultan said:
Surprised no one has mentioned Hernandez much these last few games. He's been awful.
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Is always going to be the case when we dont create chances. He's a poacher. Is never going to fashion too many chances for himself or others.He had absolutely no service in the first half, always going to look poor. He'd have scored in the 2nd half had he been on.
 
we are in transistion and the injuries woes haven't help our cause we have to defend our league title to salvage our season, it be annoying if city win it.
 
I don't buy the whole 'we got what we deserved with that team selection', 'it's Fergie's fault' argument. We were absolutely crippled by injuries, that midfield was genuinely the best one we could put out. Playing Evra at centre half is clearly not viable, Valencia at right back has been successful in the past and Carrick was really the only other option at centre half. If Rooney was rested then I don't see the problem with that either. Every player needs a rest now and then and with games coming thick and fast, Blackburn at home is the perfect time to rest a player. There was still enough quality in that side to beat Blackburn comfortably and they failed to do so.

IMO, the blame almost solely rests on the players. Despite the poor midfield, it's hard to criticise players who very rarely play there. Our delivery in the first half was just woeful, the defending for the second goal was just atrocious, and some of those at fault were in their primary positions - Jones, Evra and De Gea were particularly poor.*

I think what annoys me most is that after scoring the second and rectifying the problem, we got complacent once again and let them get a foot back on the game. The game itself should have been pretty simple, we made some bad errors to go 2 down but fought back well, like you'd expect, only to throw it all away. I don't think I've been this frustrated about a loss in years, it was just so winnable and ended up being a complete embarassment that could cost us dearly.
 
GCHQ said:
Oh course I'm disappointed! FFS.

That doesn't mean I have to resort to blaming Fergie for a shit team selection because he didn't start with Zeki fecking Fryers in defence That's just beyond ridiculous as far as I'm concerned.
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Did you say that when Ferguson started an unproven John O'Shea at Stamford Bridge with O'Shea picking up the man of the match award. If as we say we like to develop players and are not affraid to put in young players something you constantly use to defend the Leaches the Glazers then why can't we give a reserve defender a start. He already has a little experience in the cup and most importantly is a defender! Carrick then could have played central midfield instead of right back Rafeal. There was no need to start Anderson your point about his fitness is a fair one but Carrick should have played central midfield.
 
Sultan said:
A win.

Like myself I suppose every punter and bookie expected the same despite our well documented injury problems. Blackburn also had their share of players out today. If you expected anything other than a win I bow to your foresight. I hope you put your house on a Blackburn win.
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Yeah a lot of people do go into every game expecting a win. That sums up a few people. I sometimes think and hope we'll get a win, but am realistic that games like this happen.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Fryers one and only first team game at centre-half was alongside one of our most experienced defenders. Starting him alongside someone as raw and undisciplined as Phil Jones would have been total madness.
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It's hard to say really, I mean I think the team out there could and should have won looking at the game and I can understand why we wouldn't want to blood young players like this. But then at the same time when we're this crippled by injuries then surely we can take a gamble on one or two of them? I mean it's not like they're really young and if we're seriously considering some of them as long term prospects they can't be that bad. I mean once we went a goal down and it became apparent that Blackburn weren't really a threat in open play I would have tried to get carrick or ando in midfield. If that meant fryers going in defence then so be it. Though like I said the team put out there showed they could have won and had they not made so many errors they would have and that's where most the blame has to be.
 
Varun_Utd said:
Is always going to be the case when we dont create chances. He's a poacher. Is never going to fashion too many chances for himself or others.He had absolutely no service in the first half, always going to look poor. He'd have scored in the 2nd half had he been on.
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That's simply not true. If that was the case, then he wouldn't have done that turn and shot yesterday. Albeit it was unsuccessful, but it just shows that you're not looking at what he does closely. He's lacking sharpness. It's that simple.
 
Kevin said:
Agreed. To think some serious posters suggested Berbatov in defence for the Blackburn game... ludicrous.
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That was sarcasm on my part Kevin (apologies). Berbatov is too laboured to be trusted in defence. I'd have preferred Pogba or Carrick in the middle, and Zeki in central defence yesterday.
 
Twigginater said:
Yeah a lot of people do go into every game expecting a win. That sums up a few people. I sometimes think and hope we'll get a win, but am realistic that games like this happen.
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You're like my 8 year old nephew who would argue shit coming out of United's players and staff smell of roses.
 
Edmeiste said:
That's simply not true. If that was the case, then he wouldn't have done that turn and shot yesterday. Albeit it was unsuccessful, but it just shows that you're not looking at what he does closely. He's lacking sharpness. It's that simple.
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How often does he take a shot on from that position? It was on the edge of the box and that too on the diagonal. He wouldnt generally hit it from there. He(and most strikers) tend to rely on the service provided. Strikers like hernandez more so than others. nothing wrong in it. just the way it is. The way we played in the first half yesterday, he was never going to do much.

I dont think its something he cannot develop. On the contrary, i believe he actually will improve his all round game as he spends more time at the club. But, at the moment, he's best suited looking for those clever runs and scoring goals. Most of them, more often than not, will be from close range.

Also, i noticed him dropping deep while berba stayed up top quite a bit yesterday. should always be the other way round.
 
Whilst disappointed with the result, I'm not going to lambast Fergie or the personnel for the defeat. We scored two goals and Blackburn defended very well in preventing more - but two goals, ordinarilly would be enough to beat them.

The result hinged on mistakes providing Blackburn with their goals:

1. Berba probably realises he should have let Samba win the header and put the best challenge he could for the ball, but he pulled Samba down and so they got a pen on their first attack.

2. Their second was a bit freakish: Carrick falls as he plays the ball which ricochets of Yakubu but falls perfectly into his path but also wrong foots the next defender, through on goal, he clouts it and through the goalie's legs and in it goes.

3. How did the scorer manage to fag his own header for the 3rd goal ? yes, de Gea c*cked up with his attempt to get the ball, but only the Blackburn player appeared to react and was too easily able to claim his own second ball.

But if you look at the bigger picture, we've done marvellously well overall considering we've been decimated with injuries, and you know what ? May be Blackburn were due a bit of good fortune after the season they've had, and today was the day...such as Hernandez and Keane both clearing our own shots from their line...

The proof of the pudding will be the reaction we get from the team sent out at the Toon on Weds.

Finally, Hernandez, yes he's a fish out of water coming out of the box to help join up play, but Blackburn nullified him today, by playing so deep in defence, he had no room in behind to exploit the area that's strongest for him.

Bad day at the office, in the circumstances, we have to expect one or two more unfortunately, such is life.
 
Varun_Utd said:
How often does he take a shot on from that position? It was on the edge of the box and that too on the diagonal. He wouldnt generally hit it from there. He(and most strikers) tend to rely on the service provided. Strikers like hernandez more so than others. nothing wrong in it. just the way it is. The way we played in the first half yesterday, he was never going to do much.

I dont think its something he cannot develop. On the contrary, i believe he actually will improve his all round game as he spends more time at the club. But, at the moment, he's best suited looking for those clever runs and scoring goals. Most of them, more often than not, will be from close range.

Also, i noticed him dropping deep while berba stayed up top quite a bit yesterday. should always be the other way round.
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Not much but my point is it's something he's adding to his game. Cant knock him for that. I agree with you about his development. It just wont happen as fast as we like. It's clear that the boy needs a shot of confidence.

I found that strange as well. Not sure why Berba insisted on staying so high.
 
"Anderson isn't fit enough to start"

He was fit enough to play 45 minutes in the 2nd half. So why couldn't he start, and then take him off when he tires?

If we'd gone for our strongest team, built up a lead, then we could have relaxed a bit. Not the other way round
 
golden_blunder said:
"Anderson isn't fit enough to start"

He was fit enough to play 45 minutes in the 2nd half. So why couldn't he start, and then take him off when he tires?

If we'd gone for our strongest team, built up a lead, then we could have relaxed a bit. Not the other way round
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People always say this. It makes no sense. What happens if we DON'T build up a lead? Their keeper has a blinder. We're wasteful in front of goal. Whatever. What next? Take off our best players and replace them with someone weaker?
 
well, the fact is we got beat anyway doing it the other way. Historically speaking that usually happens with us, so why not try a different way and trust our strongest players to put us in a winning position?
 
Pogue Mahone said:
People always say this. It makes no sense. What happens if we DON'T build up a lead? Their keeper has a blinder. We're wasteful in front of goal. Whatever. What next? Take off our best players and replace them with someone weaker?
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If doesn't work it doesn't work. Happens. However, I'm also also of the opinion we should start with our best available players then see how the game progresses, and unless they're injured or tired we shouldn't have to take them off if we're not winning.
 
Does anyone know why players are described as 'not fit to start'? There must be something about starting matches which is more troublesome than coming on as a substitute...

Happens all the time and it would be good to understand before we criticise yesterday's line up.

Presumably it's because you can potentially spare a sub from having to play at all, if possible, so they're only there as an emergency option. By starting them you're expressing confidence that they can play a full part for at least 45 minutes...

I wondered if it's also something to do with the warm up? Maybe substitutes have the chance to warm up longer and decrease the possibility of injury?
 
golden_blunder said:
well, the fact is we got beat anyway doing it the other way. Historically speaking that usually happens with us, so why not try a different way and trust our strongest players to put us in a winning position?
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Perhaps because he was only there as an emergency measure? Isn't he well ahead of schedule anyway - ie: still not really ready but ready enough to be risked if things went as they did do yesterday?

Maybe the plan was to avoid playing him at all if we were winning...
 
Pogue Mahone said:
People always say this. It makes no sense. What happens if we DON'T build up a lead? Their keeper has a blinder. We're wasteful in front of goal. Whatever. What next? Take off our best players and replace them with someone weaker?
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What makes no sense is saying a player isn't fit enough to start. If a players that delicate a proper warm up and straight into the game would be much better then coming on after a little jog on the touch line.
 
golden_blunder said:
well, the fact is we got beat anyway doing it the other way. Historically speaking that usually happens with us, so why not try a different way and trust our strongest players to put us in a winning position?
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"Historically speaking" we've just had the most successful few years in the history of the club. I'd say that's a fairly good indication that whatever approach he usually takes is the right one.
 
Whens the last time Rafael played a football match that makes him so much fitter to start against Blackburn then Anderson?
 
Sultan said:
A win.

Like myself I suppose every punter and bookie expected the same despite our well documented injury problems. Blackburn also had their share of players out today. If you expected anything other than a win I bow to your foresight. I hope you put your house on a Blackburn win.
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I certainly wished I did, would have 26 houses now.
 
Mozza said:
Whens the last time Rafael played a football match that makes him so much fitter to start against Blackburn then Anderson?
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He played for Reserves and was fit enough to be on the bench at Fulham and Wigan.

Anderson had been training for 10 days before yesterday.
 
Mozza said:
Whens the last time Rafael played a football match that makes him so much fitter to start against Blackburn then Anderson?
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Very good point.

Physically he looked great yesterday. Best I've seen Anderson in a long while.
 
Sultan said:
Very good point.

Physically he looked great yesterday. Best I've seen Anderson in a long while.
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He might look fit but that doesn't mean you can risk starting him this soon back after a knee injury.

The club can't win sometimes - they're criticised for 'rushing' Cleverley back from injury, and then criticised for not starting Anderson.

Given our situation with injuries in central midfield, does it not make perfect sense to go very carefully with Anderson? He's going to be fairly crucial to us over the next 5-6 months. If we'd asked him to play the first 45 mins and he'd aggravated his knee, or pulled a muscle somewhere after so long out, that wouldn't look too clever, would it?
 
BaldwinLegend said:
He might look fit but that doesn't mean you can risk starting him this soon back after a knee injury.

The club can't win sometimes - they're criticised for 'rushing' Cleverley back from injury, and then criticised for not starting Anderson.

Given our situation with injuries in central midfield, does it not make perfect sense to go very carefully with Anderson? He's going to be fairly crucial to us over the next 5-6 months. If we'd asked him to play the first 45 mins and he'd aggravated his knee, or pulled a muscle somewhere after so long out, that wouldn't look too clever, would it?
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If he's fit enough to be on the bench, I would have to think he's physically ready for playing. If there is danger he could be injured he should not be on the bench.
 
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