POLL - Would you swap Moyes for Roberto Martinez or Mauricio Pochettino?

Would you swap Moyes for Martinez or Pochettino?

  • Yes - I'd gladly swap him for either of them

    Votes: 81 31.8%

  • I'd swap him for Martinez but not Pochettino

    Votes: 22 8.6%

  • I'd swap him for Pochettino but not Martinez

    Votes: 37 14.5%

  • No - I wouldn't swap him for either of them

    Votes: 115 45.1%
  • Total voters
    255

FineYoungCasual

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M.A.M.B.O # 1
There's so much talk about Moyes needing to be replaced and if so, who his replacement should be.

One thing I've realised about the Moyes era thus far is that I'm really not that bothered about a few trophyless seasons. What really bothers me is the lack of progression in our football and the anachronistic ideals we seem to be intent on clinging to for no logical reason.

I think a completely fresh start is needed by the club and if the club must employ a manager who's won little or nothing, someone who gets the luxury of 'learning on the job' - as it appears Moyes is getting - I personally would rather it was someone who actually had an ethos and footballing philosophy that was progressive, positive and entertaining enough that it actually made the project something exciting to be involved in. Something worth waiting for, if you will.

So, would you still want to replace Moyes if your only choices were the somewhat unproven candidates Roberto Martinez or Pochettino? Or is that a bridge too far for you?

Votes are private.
 
I'd swap him in a heartbeat for one of those two.....I'd even be willing to offer Moyes a job of a number 2 at Utd working under a manager like Martinez or Pochettino who have a proven pedigree of playing nice football while overachieving at the same time, so that Moyes could learn about alternative modern tactics as opposed to his one trick 'park the bus' counter and then cross methods that he has mastered so well over the years at Everton....Martinez has actually won something already in his fledgling career that has been much shorter than Moyes managment career......Everton fans worship him...they simply don't miss Moyes

I'd love to see Moyes becoming a success here and he probably will eventually be a huge success here if he brings back Rene or Carlos Queiroz over the summer........but everything about him has been a disaster from the word go......From spouting about how we will sign some of the biggest players in the world last summer only for his first and only summer signing being what looks like a massive 30 million flop to his backroom team that offer very little - to the shockingly embarrassing out of date hoof ball tactics - to his embarrassing quotes about luck etc not being on his side in games where our only tactics was to whip in crosses that were very comfortably dealt with by giant opposition defenders........He just seems destined to fail and seems to have lost half the dressing room already......If he can attract the likes of Kroos while also bringing Queiroz back then he maybe deserves another season but it's very unlikely the likes of Kroos would choose to come and play for Moyes over the summer when the likes of Madrid etc will be after them too
 
I wouldn't swap Moyes for either one. Thee reason I was against Moyes appointment from the beginning was because he had not won anything and I doubted he would be able to attract world class talent. Neither Martinez or Pochettino have won anything either so even if they are better tactically than Moyes, I don't see it as much of a step up. If either go on to win something domestically or take their teams into Europe and win an Europa Cup than maybe it's worth thinking about.

ps Remember Martinez won the FA Cup with Wigan.
 
I'm a simple man, football for me isn't about trophy count, its about entertainment at the end of the day, I enjoy the way Martinez sides try to play football, I won't lie, I don't know if he'd ever be good enough for our fans who want... nay.. expect! us to win the league year in year out but for installing his football philosophy? yes please.
Some of the qualities Sir Alex labled Moyes with, vision, determination, loyalty, giving chances to youth... all of which could be equally applied to Martinez's time in english football.
 
BennyBlanco said:
I'm a simple man, football for me isn't about trophy count, its about entertainment at the end of the day, I enjoy the way Martinez sides try to play football, I won't lie, I don't know if he'd ever be good enough for our fans who want... nay.. expect! us to win the league year in year out but for installing his football philosophy? yes please.
Some of the qualities Sir Alex labled Moyes with, vision, determination, loyalty, giving chances to youth... all of which could be equally applied to Martinez's time in english football.
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Totally agree with this. I bet you'd be a great guy to watch footy with!
 
I'd swap him for either. Moyes hasn't given us results or entertaining football. With one of those two we'd be guaranteed at least one of the two. I still think we should be aiming for bigger fish than Martinez or Pochettino when Moyes does inevitably leave, though. There's nothing stopping us from hiring a manager from the top shelf. Martinez and Pochettino aren't that, even if they're both better than Moyes.
 
Red Stone said:
I'd swap him for either. Moyes hasn't given us results or entertaining football. With one of those two we'd be guaranteed at least one of the two. I still think we should be aiming for bigger fish than Martinez or Pochettino when Moyes does inevitably leave, though. There's nothing stopping us from hiring a manager from the top shelf. Martinez and Pochettino aren't that, even if they're both better than Moyes.
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And I'm sure most (if not all) would agree with you.

I'm just interested in where people stand on the idea of replacing Moyes even if it meant not getting one of those top shelf managers.
 
Canuckred64 said:
I wouldn't swap Moyes for either one. Thee reason I was against Moyes appointment from the beginning was because he had not won anything and I doubted he would be able to attract world class talent. Neither Martinez or Pochettino have won anything either so even if they are better tactically than Moyes, I don't see it as much of a step up. If either go on to win something domestically or take their teams into Europe and win an Europa Cup than maybe it's worth thinking about.

ps Remember Martinez won the FA Cup with Wigan.
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That was never the problem with Moyes the problem was he has always been a reactive manager and his style isn't fit for a big club. There is nothing wrong with going for a relatively unproven manager if he has the right philosophy and has shown they can get teams to play in a pro active modern way, which both managers have done.
 
Do the people saying they'd swap him for Martinez have very short memories?

Despite having very similar transfer budget to what Moyes spent at Everton (actually if you tot up both teams' spending over that period Wigan spent more) he barely kept Wigan up every year, before failing in his final year. A good half season with an inherited squad and some good loans don't erase his previous record. His complete inability to organise or even grasp the concept of a defence was very endearing and entertaining at Wigan, but not something I'd want anywhere near the club I support.
 
I would definitely sniff around for an upgrade from Moyes, which Martinez and Pochettino would be. Although Martinez has more experience in the prem, and of course he has an FA Cup to his name, there's something about Pochettino that tells me he's got the fire in the belly to achieve greatness.

Moyes shits in his pants on the touch line, poor fella. Martinez is a cool customer and would be a massive upgrade from Moyes but does he really ever get his clubs play consistent above their punching weight? I just don't know. Pochettino does.
 
jeff_goldblum said:
Do the people saying they'd swap him for Martinez have very short memories?

Despite having very similar transfer budget to what Moyes spent at Everton (actually if you tot up both teams' spending over that period Wigan spent more) he barely kept Wigan up every year, before failing in his final year. A good half season with an inherited squad and some good loans don't erase his previous record. His complete inability to organise or even grasp the concept of a defence was very endearing and entertaining at Wigan, but not something I'd want anywhere near the club I support.
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Similar transfer budget? That's all well and good, even though Everton spent considerably more than Wigan, so you're wrong, but take into account that Leighton Baines earned more in one week than probably half the entire Wigan squad, then it's a different discussion altogether. Martinez and Wigan really were on a shoestring budget, the very epitome of a Championship team in the Premier League. Everton would usually finish just a little higher than their outgoings would estimate. No comparison in expenditure. There's a reason players don't rush out of Everton. Wages.
 
As for the question, yes I'd probably take the risk.

Martinez has at least proven he can produce attractive teams that value the ball. I'd take some of that for the time being.
 
I think either one of Martinez or Pochettino would be a great option and I think Pochettino would be more realistic as Martinez may have promised Everton at least a few seasons but.............If we do get stuck with Moyes beyond this summer then his priority signing needs to be a proper coach....a modern thinker that understands the modern attacking tactics.....something none of Moyes backroom team has even a slight iota about

Paul Clement would be ideal if he could be prized away from Real Madrid....Queiroz would be a good option too.....If Moyes somehow survives and tries to go into next season without bringing a new innovative number 2 on board that can offer fresh ideas then he should be deported to Mongolia
 
Is this thread really necessary? All it indicates is some people hate Moyes more than others.

Anyway, to answer your question; I'd swap for both...
 
Both are more suited to a team like United because of the way they have their teams play football, so yeah I would. Neither should be picked for the next manager though. We're Manchester United, we should have one of the best managers in the world in charge of us, not just a decent manager who is British, or an up and coming manager.
 
I said no. At this point we need a manager with big club experience to give the club stable footing after Sir Alex retiring and the mess Dave has thrown at the club. We shouldnt of gambled on an inexperienced manager in the first place!
 
No because I think United need a bigger personality than either of those 2 choices. I would swap Moyes approach to football with theirs though.
 
FineYoungCasual said:
We'd keep Woodward, but the spending that Moyes has enjoyed would be there for however they wanted it - £70m a season.
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Ah well, thought i'd ask. Pochettino would have a hotline to the talent pool at Southampton though which is a nice bonus in this hypothetical scenario. :)
 
Kag said:
Similar transfer budget? That's all well and good, even though Everton spent considerably more than Wigan, so you're wrong, but take into account that Leighton Baines earned more in more week than probably half the entire Wigan squad, then it's a different discussion altogether. Martinez and Wigan really were on a shoestring budget, the very epitome of a Championship team in the Premier League. Everton would usually finish just a little higher than their outgoings would estimate. No comparison in expenditure. There's a reason players don't rush out of Everton. Wages.
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Maybe I should have been clear that the figures I used were net spend ones between 2009 - 2013. Obviously Everton spent more, but only because they sold more. If you've got figures that say different then fair play

Wages is a fair point, but the differences aren't as stark as you claim. For example, Antonio Valencia's deal with Wigan had him being paid £32,000-a-week at the age of 22, compared to Baines who was on £50,000-a-week as a 25 year old who was consistently playing over 40 games a season. Whilst admittedly Valencia's wage was probably amongst the highest at the club, it's still a far cry from your portrayal of a club that could hardly make ends meet. You have to remember that Wigan had been in the Premier League for 4 years before Martinez took over (finishing 10th. 17th, 14th, 11th compared to Martinez' 16th, 15th, 16th, 18th). It's pretty disingenous to claim that they were 'a Championship team in the Premier League' when prior to Martinez's arrival they were firmly mid-table for 3/4 of the time they'd been in the league and paying at least one of their players £10k a week over the Premier League average (about 8 times the Championship average)

Leaving aside Wigan for a moment, you're wrong when you say that Everton finished 'a little higher' than their outgoings would estimate under Moyes. For example they averaged 5.4 league spots above their financial spend in the 5 seasons between 2007 and 2012.
 
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No chance. Either of them would be a sidestep at best and potentially they could make the situation worse. That coupled with or "give managers time" ethos can only spell more danger. Get in someone experienced please. This job isn't a "learn as you go" job.
 
I like Martinez more than Pochettino at this point. Martinez has done much more with much less than Moyes has at this point.

Both of them are arguably light years ahead of Moyes tactically, though.

That said, I don't know that either have the command to run a club like United just yet.
 
forevrared said:
I like Martinez more than Pochettino at this point. Martinez has done much more with much less than Moyes has at this point.

Both of them are arguably light years ahead of Moyes tactically, though.

That said, I don't know that either have the command to run a club like United just yet.
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Does that mean - in this hypothetical universe - that you'd prefer to stick with Moyes?
 
forevrared said:
I like Martinez more than Pochettino at this point. Martinez has done much more with much less than Moyes has at this point.

Both of them are arguably light years ahead of Moyes tactically, though.

That said, I don't know that either have the command to run a club like United just yet.
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Agreed that Moyes is a dinosaur with tactics. AND Moyes doesn't have the command to run United either.
 
No. I'd take Martinez over Moyes. I don't think Moyes has the personality needed to manage United either and he's obviously shit with his archaic tactics.

Martinez would at least make the best of the attacking players we've got and not persist with Young and Valencia while better players sit on the bench.

Basically, none of the three of them are big enough men to manage United, but Martinez would put out the best team and probably get the best results.
 
It's probably a knee jerk reaction, but at this point I'd definitely take Martinez over Moyes. With Martinez we may not get success, but at least we should be moving towards a more attractive style of football. With Moyes we aren't getting success and we have only managed to not look shit once or twice in his entire time in charge.
 
forevrared said:
No. I'd take Martinez over Moyes. I don't think Moyes has the personality needed to manage United and he's obviously shit with his archaic tactics.

Martinez would at least make the best of the attacking players we've got and not persist with Young and Valencia while better players sit on the bench.

Basically, none of the three of them are big enough men to manage United, but Martinez would put out the best team and probably get the best results.
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It's funny - I get the feeling Pochettino is a bit of a monster. He's tactically astute and his players are often singing his praises, but he also has this vibe about him of being no joke.

I can't see him bottling much, put it that way. I can't imagine many players crossing him either.
 
How embarrassing is it that the world famous MUFC has desires for a Southampton manager or a manager who got Wigan relegated!!! I know they play better footie than Moyes, no doubt, but damn how things have fallen.

Employing Moyes was bad enough with no trophies but we should be aiming for the cream of the crop. Lets be honest, quarter final or not, its been a DISASTER of a season and he's lucky to be in a job.
 
Claymore said:
How embarrassing is it that the world famous MUFC has desires for a Southampton manager or a manager who got Wigan relegated!!! I know they play better footie than Moyes, no doubt, but damn how things have fallen.

Employing Moyes was bad enough with no trophies but we should be aiming for the cream of the crop. Lets be honest, quarter final or not, its been a DISASTER of a season and he's lucky to be in a job.
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I think it says more about how unsuited for the job Moyes is, rather than how suited Martinez and Pochettino are.
 
Seems like almost anyone would be a step up. Could this season have been any worse?
Is Mr. Blobby available?
 
At what point do we ask ourselves how much better off we would have been with Mike Phelan and Rene Meulensteen as manager and assistant?
 
How much better off would we have been with Mike Phelan and Rene Meulensteen as manager and assistant?
 
ecantona7 said:
I can't see Phelan and Rene bottling it the way Moyes has this season. Those two would have had us in top 4 contention at the very least for me.
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Thing is, Phelan and Rene wouldn't have lost the players. They trained them every day and had been with them through thick and thin - they new how to win together. In fact, I personally feel that Moyes' removal of them made a number of senior players immediately dislike him.

They wouldn't have challenged for the title, no chance, but I firmly believe we'd be in a far better position than we are now!
 
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