When Rooney's scoring record up top is average it's because the midfield are rubbish and don't create enough. When RVP's scoring record up top is average it's because he's past it and needs to move to the mls. Oh but if we had that perfect midfield, you know like QPR and Spurs, we might just have a striker who can score 18 and 21 goals, or maybe we can borrow tactical tim for a bit and we might get someone banging in 10 goals in 10 games.
Poll: Is Wayne Rooney past it and should he be sold?
- Thread starter Raees
- Start date
http://www.vi.nl/live/ierse-bond-spaart-fifa-ronaldo-knuffelt-brutale-fan.htm
I translated from a Dutch source and they quote Shortlist. They apparantly asked Messi to give his opinion on Rooney. Make of it what you want
http://www.vi.nl/live/ierse-bond-spaart-fifa-ronaldo-knuffelt-brutale-fan.htm
I translated from a Dutch source and they quote Shortlist. They apparantly asked Messi to give his opinion on Rooney. Make of it what you want
When was this btw?
Yesterday on the VI website.
I agree with you regarding Fellaini and Young in that they shouldn't be the class of player we use on a first team basis for the long term. I also more than agree with you about the lack of pace in the way we play, and that we seriously lack end product; all our strikers have suffered from it. And yet Rooney for all his time at United as only broken 20 goals how many times? Twice? And you can't tell me it's because he's been played in midfield half his time here at United. There are very obviously flaws with his inconsistency that people are all too ready to make excuses for. The period when we played our best football, he was safely anonymous. I'm not saying he's our biggest problem right now; but he will be the more he's considered undroppable and blame free. Also, you're acting as though Young and Fellaini have not been the better players we've had this season; Young's been fantastic and Fellaini has improved heaps.
He'll still get you goals, but he's a Jack of all trades master of none really. Fergie knew it was the right time to get rid to make our attacking more dynamic.
Nistelrooy was twice the player Rooney is, when Fergie got rid of him because RvN 'slowness' became a hindrance to our attack. That's when RvN scored 24 goals in 35 games in the league.
Buy Spurs' midfield and watch Rooney score for fun.
On a serious note, United won't be able to compete for big tropheys with Rooney in the team. He's so far behind the top top players in the world it's embarrassing.
On a serious note, United won't be able to compete for big tropheys with Rooney in the team. He's so far behind the top top players in the world it's embarrassing.
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And we let Ings go to scousers. Tsk tsk tsk...
And he replaced him with someone with a nearer expiry date than Rooney's. Smart
Seriously, RVP, Rooney and Hernandez goal tally had nosedived. Has they all finished at around the same time or could it be the case that our problems lie elsewhere?
Or could It be the more obvious problem that they are all past their best? Don't include Hernandez because he hardly plays.
I find that very difficult to believe especially since they are all in their late 20s or early 30s
The Rooney apologists are so deluded, Rooney didnt play more than 3 matches as a DM. When he played in midfield, it was mostly in CM and CAM.
He actually played about half the season in midfield.
I don't apologise for him but I can see the reasons why he'd not be as productive as previous seasons, can he do better? Bloody right he can. I think he can still get us 20 goals in a season, if he has the support around him and is settled up front.
It was mentioned above by Orton that when Rooney is poor we blame the midfield and when RVP is poor we blame him, personally I'd suggest Rooney worked a lot harder than RVP did in the season just gone, whereas RVP barely got a touch of the ball. He didn't even seem to make runs or try create space for other players, factor in age and injuries also and it makes sense to suggest RVP is clearly on a decline.
Not taking anything away from them, I compare them to the performances Oshea and Giggs cooked up during the final few months of 2005/06 season, the football we played from january 2006-may 2006 was some of the best stuff we had played in a while. But going into the next season, could we play Oshea and Giggs all season in the 2006/07 season? no, we had to play established CM players in there. So while fellaini and young done well, especially fellaini, we cannot rest on the few performances they contributed, they done well but I would rather see better players in their positions
He played in midfield, but he didnt play as CDM half of the time.
So can Berahino, Inge, Austin, we dont have to pay a player over a million per month, make him our captain and undroppable just to have a decent return in a settled team, we need a leader in attack, someone who guarantees goals no matter against who he plays, like we had with Rooney for 2 seasons, rvp in his debut season or RVN. We shouldnt keep declining, we should go back to the standards United have set, and not be okay with some decent performances by an overpaid player.
As I said, I'm not disputing that
I'm disputing the fact that people constantly cook up excuses for Rooney. No he isn't the biggest problem right now, but he will be the one holding us back. People seem to think that he will bang in 20-25 goals once we play him up top but even with us playing our best football under Fergie for the last decade, he's only broken the 20 goal limit twice since 2004. I doubt his problems with consistency, awful first touch and close control or that annoying automatic-switch out to the right pass will improve anytime soon either. People can say stick Rooney with this team's / that team's midfield and he'll score. That just smacks of excuses. If he played in a team like Arsenal (people now say), he'd be required to be up there with his pace, control and technical skills, departments that Wenger's team emphasizes and where he is sorely lacking in.To be fair, Ings and Austin could quite easily fall into the one season wonder category as does often happen in the PL. It's an apples and oranges situation comparing Ings and Austin to Rooney has delivered returns for a decade in the PL. Crazy to compare them!
As for Berahino he's had a decent season in 2013-14 and improved in the season just gone. He still has a lot to prove to be fair.
Rooney is still a great finisher when given the supply, our creativity wasn't great this season so all our forwards suffered because of it. Rooney just so happened to be the best of a bad bunch sort of speak this season. I do believe with supply coming from Di Maria & Depay on the wings Rooney will hit 20 goals next season.
He hit 14 goals this season, a season full of injuries to the team and the team being tinkered with tactically with a variation of formation and Rooney dropping deeper to cover for Carricks absence. If we can get adequate cover for Carrick in midfield and settle Rooney up front with support on the wings from Di Maria and Depay, he could easily hit 20 goals. Come on, are you honestly saying he couldn't hit another 6 more goals when its thought of that way?
In his 11 seasons here he has managed 20 or more goals in a season on 4 occasions, I can't see why he can't do it again.
Rooney is 30 in a few months. He's not hid over 20 in the league since 11/12. Over 3 years ago.
He might still be a good finisher, but he isnt fast enough (tho his recentt stats suggest otherwise), strong enough, dynamic enough and skilled enough to even get in goalscoring positions, that's his problem.
The last time he scored over 20 goals was in 2011/2012, he has had only 2 seasons where he produced brilliantly for an United striker, in 11 years, it isnt enough. In fact, he barely is a striker. He likes to influence our play, come get the ball, drift out positions, that isnt really what we need for our striker atm.
I think he has one more good season left in him
He still managed to get some great goals this season, some superb finishes against Villa, West Ham, Arsenal, Liverpool.
One thing that does really bug me about his game is his insistence to drop deep to collect to the ball and play it wide to Young / Valencia. Most of those long passes don't meet their intended target and if it does it slows our play down incredibly for counter attacks.
Look at someone like Drobga.
8 league goals in 19 games in 2007/2008 (aged 29/30).
5 league goals in 24 games in 2008/2009 (aged 30/31).
The 'logical' conclusion would've been that he was declining rapidly - finished at the top level, basically.
Then in 2009/2010 (aged 31/32)? 29 league goals in 32 games, as he fired Chelsea to the title. His best ever individual season by a distance.
Not beyond the bounds of possibility that Rooney has a few good seasons left him in yet, either.
8 league goals in 19 games in 2007/2008 (aged 29/30).
5 league goals in 24 games in 2008/2009 (aged 30/31).
The 'logical' conclusion would've been that he was declining rapidly - finished at the top level, basically.
Then in 2009/2010 (aged 31/32)? 29 league goals in 32 games, as he fired Chelsea to the title. His best ever individual season by a distance.
Not beyond the bounds of possibility that Rooney has a few good seasons left him in yet, either.
Rooney scored 14 goals while playing half of his games in midfield for a team that creates a little amount of chances and there are doubts about his ability to score 20 goals?
In my opinion we should keep him and sign a player who will be a real threat for Rooney, not because of Rooney's abilities but because of his age, there was a stat this season about strikers after 29 years old and that was not good.
In my opinion we should keep him and sign a player who will be a real threat for Rooney, not because of Rooney's abilities but because of his age, there was a stat this season about strikers after 29 years old and that was not good.
I don't think that Wayne is past it; I believe that he's playing within himself in order to prolong his career. Nothing wrong with that (from his own perspective)...but it hardly helps United.
RVP scored 10 in a team that creates hardly any chances (mainly because Rooney was in midfield for half of these games and being paired with Fallcao)
Or do these excuses not apply to our other players?
Don't think he's past it yet, but he's well past his best, with small glimpses from time to time but nothing consistent and his general play is probably worse than it's ever been.
That's true, but tbf is that anywhere near enough? How many have the likes of Suarez, Costa, Aguero, Ibra, Cavani, Lewa had this season? If we want to get back to the very top, much more is to be expected of nearly all of our players, if we want to get 4th for the coming years, we're solid with how we're going in the current rate. Rooney still has a lot of qualities obviously, but some of the most important qualities for a striker are in rapid decline for him, his best assets are his shot and his finish at the moment, but if you hardly get in the positions to exploit that, it's quite pointless.
They apply to all our strikers, I didn't mentioned RVP because it's not his thread. But if you want to, RVP could score the 20 goals that we need next season but I think that we should keep only one striker over 29 years old, and I would choose Rooney.
Suarez is part of the best team in the world at the moment, Costa with the champions and Aguero with a slightly more stable team than United (although they have fallen off in quality a bit). Cavani only hit 4 more than Rooney as well and Lewandowski 3 more than Rooney. Not so bad when you really look at it.
He has dropped in quality I don't deny it but I think he has enough in him yet to be our main forward with support from pacey wide players and support from a striker with good potential.
Cavani has scored 31 goals in all competitions, City really arent much better than United, it's Aguero and Silva that lifts them to another level, something our 'stars' dont seem able to do. We can continue to make excuses, but so many players at less clubs have had a better ratio than Rooney at this club, everybody seems to get the blame for Rooney's poor performances but him. He has played in midfield for us, but since Rvp's injury in February (?) he has almost played as a striker solely, but failed to produce.
id be inclined to agree. Especially with no international tournament this summer, with a proper rest this season could be his last main statement
Rooney hasn't played like a man on £250k+ a week since 2011/2012 but to say he hasn't got it in him to score more than 20 in the league is ridiculous
Cavani did play a lot more games than Rooney though, he had league, domestic cup and Champions league matches to bump up his returns. Suppose it'd go down to goals to games ratio average. I agree Silva & Aguero lifted City many a match last season, but again I do think they are slightly more stable than what we were. They're not that far ahead of us though.
He definitely needs to up his game right from the get go next season, no excuses for him. Mentioned just above that he should get a nice break in now over summer, knuckle down for a good pre season and some good transfers from LVG / Ed and I think we'll get 20 goals from him next season.
As I said, I'm not disputing that
For me I find there is not a great deal of quality of forwards out there, and most of them keep ending up at Madrid and Barca. God forbid if we had one of the best forwards in the world madrid defiantly would snap him up, is there players out there? possibly, but I think the club has more pressing issues this summer, like a GK, RB, 1 or 2 CB's, 2 CM players. So the clubs backbone of GK, defense and midfield needs addressing. We have signed one of the most exciting attacking wingers in depay, lets sort out the GK issue, the engine room and defense. I think summer 2016 I think we should look to replacing rooney, this year I feel rooney deserves a season and he still got a few season's left, at most a very good one the season to come.
Yes.
Was there a version of this thread that voted yes 2 years ago when Fergie, correctly, dropped him then too?
Yes there was.
He's been shit once again today up front. But he'll score 20+ this season... sure.
Rooney slowly losing all his best attributes.. Fergie saw it. LVG gonna end up with shite on his face if he doesn't get us another top striker for the coming season because Rooney is too inconsistent and now looking like he'll be mostly bad than good throughout a season.
That Rooney goal must be so bitter for many on here. He's so close to the record now