Pogba

tenpoless said:
I don't think he's crazy enough to fake an injury nor do I think the club's medical staffs are that daft that they can be tricked by fake injuries. But regardless of that, his injury record only adds more reason not to extend his contract. Henever looked like he enjoyed his time here. We gave him lots of money, we put up with his agent that constantly talked shit about the club, stood by him when his form was unbelievably bad. Pogba at United just never worked the way that both parties expected. Time to let go. We can't tie him to another massive contract on a long period of time. He's not getting any younger.
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I think this is where our club fails, a player who’s injured often and plays rarely but also has a contract extension waiting for his sign. A good club will have a detailed report about a star player’s injury and submit it to the coaches and managers to take an informed decision about his future especially if it involves huge money. We are certainly a good club when it comes to players recovery and not ruthless (phil jones situation) but pogba must be earning 5 times what jones makes in a week so we should take every situation according to its weight.
There is a disconnect with every department in our club and change in managers doesn’t help either.
 
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Canagel said:
The offer doesn't exist.

The clubs medical team rushed him back from ankle injury in 2019 and made him play on a fractured ankle vs Rochdale. He was rushed back again in December while injured and was forced to get the operation he should have got before, rightly on the advice of his own team.

It's not surprising he didn't trust them again.
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Then why doesnt come out and say so? This has been one of the biggest problems with Pogba, his reluctance to deny or confirm anything said about him. If he was more open and forthcoming it would perhaps make his doubters less sceptical about him. I think the truth is he enjoys being "enigmatic" as it all goes toward his "brand" image.
 
devilish said:
I have a feeling that he'll sign a new contract. It would be silly but logic is is something rare at United these days.
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That's my feeling too. We will be idiots and offer him a 350k contract at least and he will extend.
Oh!! The horror!!
 
devilish said:
I have a feeling that he'll sign a new contract. It would be silly but logic is is something rare at United these days.
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This won't be a surprise. We'll offer a stupid contract and if he couldn't sign for another club, he would willingly take it and extend.
 
The Oracle said:
Well for a start you only have to look at his falling out with Mourinho.

Then you can look at what Lukaku claimed on his departure from Utd, which was along the lines of there being a toxic dressing room with the ringleaders being Pogba and Martial.

They're just examples of ones that are well known.
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Lukaku isn't a guy who is very sensible tbh, look at his recent interview, the man thinks he is blameless. Mourinho has a long track record of falling out with many players and dressing rooms.
I'm not saying Pogba is a certified angel, just that there are more people who appreciate him and have said good things about him in dressing rooms than the opposite.
 
harms said:
It doesn't work quite as well when you actually count Pogba's league titles though? He has 4.

I hope that the contract offer that we've supposedly had for him is off the table though. At this point even the idea of losing him on a free for the second time doesn't hurt as much as a potential long-term deal on mind-boggling wages. He just isn't worth it, sadly.
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0 Prem League titles then... It's what he does for us that is the most important, not Juventus.

But yeah, I pray this saga will come to an end this year. Sick of it.
 
spiriticon said:
0 Prem League titles then... It's what he does for us that is the most important, not Juventus.

But yeah, I pray this saga will come to an end this year. Sick of it.
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I'm not arguing that he hadn't failed to meet even the most conservative expectations. He absolutely had, we shouldn't prolong his contract and he'll end up as one of our worst transfers ever (although not quite as disastrous as the absolute worst examples, somewhere alongside Veron). I'm simply highlighting a poorly constructed argument where a player with 5,5 seasons in England gets compared to a player with 17 Premier League seasons under his belt because... god knows why. And that arguments falls apart when you include the rest of Pogba's club career even though it's still far from over. Criticise constructively.
 
harms said:
I'm not arguing that he hadn't failed to meet even the most conservative expectations. He absolutely had, we shouldn't prolong his contract and he'll end up as one of our worst transfers ever (although not quite as disastrous as the absolute worst examples, somewhere alongside Veron). I'm simply highlighting a poorly constructed argument where a player with 5,5 seasons in England gets compared to a player with 17 Premier League seasons under his belt because... god knows why. And that arguments falls apart when you include the rest of Pogba's club career even though it's still far from over. Criticise constructively.
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It's not really a comparison or an argument between the two players. It's just a bit of banter. We laugh at Slippy G because of his zero league titles with Liverpool, i'm just saying that Pogba is equally prime for the pisstake.

What's more, we're (allegedly) paying him 500K a week for that pleasure of winning nothing with us!
 
The Oracle said:
The article can be traced back to Italian football journalist Paolo Condò

How credible is journalist Paolo?
He has been the Italian journalist designated for the ballon d'Or awarded by France Football magazine since 2010.
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And the article states Lukaku feels that Martial and Pogba can’t pass him the ball.

So do you have any quotes where Lukaku says Martial and Pogba were part of a clique? Because evidence suggests Pogba welcomes everyone to the club, helps them find houses and is loved by the staff in Carrington, also is very good with his time to the foundation.

So being as I don’t just believe shite like every other fan on this thread….I’d appreciate something substantial and not baseless shite posted as fact.
 
spiriticon said:
It's not really a comparison or an argument between the two players. It's just a bit of banter. We laugh at Slippy G because of his zero league titles with Liverpool, i'm just saying that Pogba is equally prime for the pisstake.

What's more, we're (allegedly) paying him 500K a week for that pleasure of winning nothing with us!
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His won he World Cup you pleb. Let’s banter Roy Keane.
 
Wasn’t this supposed to be a groin injury? He’s been out for 2 months already. Another month until he’s fit to train? I smell bullshit from him and raiola. Contract offer should be taken off the table.

Who in their right mind offers him 300k a week with that injury record, paying a huge bonus to his greedy agent as well.
 
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His time here has been like a cross between Veron and Phil Jones. Both him and the club need a fresh start and if we lose him on a free then so be it. Move on.
 
JPRouve said:
The more I think about it and the least it makes sense. Injured players are on a different schedule than the rest of the team, it's one of the notorious reasons behind players struggling from a mental standpoint when they are injured for a long period of time since they are not with the rest of the team despite using the same facilities. And places like Doha and Dubai specializes in sports science, they have the best facilities, they have a large proportion of the best trainers and medical specialist which is why pretty much all top athletes, they ones competing individually end up spending a fair amount of time there.
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Zoo said:
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So how's that Dubai going on then?
 
Amar__ said:
So how's that Dubai going on then?
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I don't know you will have to ask different physicians. But it's fair to remember that one of the reasons behind those figures are the fact that the club misdiagnosed an injury, then the player and club decided to not pick the surgical option and almost 5 months later Pogba was finally getting the surgery, Pogba barely played during those 5 months. That happened in Manchester.

But anyway the point is that Football clubs generally don't have staffs specifically focused on long term injuries, it's the same staff that takes care of the day to day niggles and they focus their time on that. Injured players are on a different schedule and it's not uncommon that they are basically isolated from the rest of the group while not actually having the best care available. Also it wasn't a point specifically about Pogba but about injured players in general.
 
JPRouve said:
The more I think about it and the least it makes sense. Injured players are on a different schedule than the rest of the team, it's one of the notorious reasons behind players struggling from a mental standpoint when they are injured for a long period of time since they are not with the rest of the team despite using the same facilities. And places like Doha and Dubai specializes in sports science, they have the best facilities, they have a large proportion of the best trainers and medical specialist which is why pretty much all top athletes, they ones competing individually end up spending a fair amount of time there.
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Funny how the best facilities always seem to be where the sun is.
 
Deery said:
I’m not saying he’s faking it but I don’t know another player on the planet that takes months to heal from some of his injuries.
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It can happen if the injury is a recurring one. Many players all over the Europe are injury prone like that. We're just too focused on Pogba for all kinda different reasons
 
Marwood said:
Funny how the best facilities always seem to be where the sun is.
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It's not a coincidence. It's linked to the fact that good weather is better for tourism and that these places specializes in medical and sports tourism. It would be funny if they decided to build their faciliies in Vladivostok.
 
kouroux said:
It can happen if the injury is a recurring one. Many players all over the Europe are injury prone like that. We're just too focused on Pogba for all kinda different reasons
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Could be and it’s hard to be too sore on him as we don’t fully know, but in comparison to Kevin De Bruyne who seems to pick up the same kinds of injuries but is raring to go as soon as possible.
 
kouroux said:
It can happen if the injury is a recurring one. Many players all over the Europe are injury prone like that. We're just too focused on Pogba for all kinda different reasons
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Wasn't his injury misdiagnosed by the club?

I'm sure he went against the club to get surgery last season, remember Ole being not happy with Pogbas decision.
 
Roane said:
Isnt that part of the recovery with certain injuries?

A sort of vitamin D to aid recovery?
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Warm weather is better but in this case it's simply due to the fact that places like Dubai, Doha, Florida or Arizona have a concentration of other tourism facilities, it's very easy to find high level amenities, you don't have to build them specifically for your own complex.
 
Roane said:
Isnt that part of the recovery with certain injuries?

A sort of vitamin D to aid recovery?
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Doesn't look like the Vit D has worked this time.

JPRouve said:
It's not a coincidence. It's linked to the fact that good weather is better for tourism and that these places specializes in medical and sports tourism. It would be funny if they decided to build their faciliies in Vladivostok.
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Are you 100% sure its not just a case of Pogba liking a holiday in Dubai?

I mean if its a hamstring tear I'm sure the staff at United know how to rehab that. It's a fairly standard injury. Or if not I'm sure there are specialists closer than 4000 miles away.
 
Want him out of the club desperately so the cultural rebuild can start afresh.

Sadly I think the contract will be renewed so the new management will be hampered from the get go.
 
im a long time Pogba detractor . never thought he;s lived up to the hype or delivered in the way I expected. but...

we fkn need him right now. Its true when a teams form is poor the stock of those who dont play increases ( vdb , lingard, pogba ) . Pogba has that chutzpah he has the sneer that all top players have. He has the aura and personality that other players look at and feed off. I think he would be a positive influence in the dressing room and help unite a fractured squad. but he needs to be in the team. The sooner he comes back the better
 
JPRouve said:
That happened in Manchester.
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Many weird thing happen in Manchester, things like giving Rashford an option to sit out Euros and then have the surgery once the season starts and have him miss few months, despite being Manchester United player, and not being under contract with England national team or whatever.

It's obviously very clear that players here do whatever they want and it's also quite clear that Pogba likes his Dubai more than Manchester, and if we keep allowing things like that player power will continue to be a thing here under every manager.

I am pretty sure there were many articles how Manchester United football clubs have one of the best medical facilities in the world, so Dubai argument is highly questionable, especially for healing a groin that generally isn't a long term injury from what I know.
 
Marwood said:
Are you 100% sure its not just a case of Pogba liking a holiday in Dubai?

I mean if its a hamstring tear I'm sure the staff at United know how to rehab that. It's a fairly standard injury. Or if not I'm sure there are specialists closer than 4000 miles away.
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I already addressed that point. First if you have a grade 2 or 3 tear it's not a standard tear and you will have to see a specialist unless you are lucky and the club main doctor is a specialist in severe muscle injuries but that's true for all injuries. And the point of not rehabing at the club is mainly for comfort and convenience for the club, injured players are isolated, it's not a great experience and rehabing in places like Florida or Dubai can be better from a mental standpoint.
 
Amar__ said:
Many weird thing happen in Manchester, things like giving Rashford an option to sit out Euros and then have the surgery once the season starts and have him miss few months, despite being Manchester United player, and not being under contract with England national team or whatever.

It's obviously very clear that players here do whatever they want and it's also quite clear that Pogba likes his Dubai more than Manchester, and if we keep allowing things like that player power will continue to be a thing here under every manager.

I am pretty sure there were many articles how Manchester United football clubs have one of the best medical facilities in the world, so Dubai argument is highly questionable, especially for healing a groin that generally isn't a long term injury from what I know.
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Manchester United do not have the best medical facilities in the world and they also don't have the best medical staff either. That one is none starter, no Football clubs are currently in that situation.
 
The injury Pogba currently has was picked up on international duty. It was simply classed a thigh injury initially.

Pogba was sent to Dubai with a coach as it was felt that was the best thing to aid recovery. Every report at the time was about it being UTD decision.

Players injured on international duty are, or certainly were, subject to "insurance" payments to their club. So Pogba being sent to the best facility with the best weather to get the best treatment maybe because France are paying for it?
 
JPRouve said:
Manchester United do not have the best medical facilities in the world and they also don't have the best medical staff either. That one is none starter, no Football clubs are currently in that situation.
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https://www.espn.com/soccer/news/story/_/id/1746617/manchester-united-unveil-new-medical-facility

“It's a wonderful facility, something which we can show off to new players when they come in,'' Moyes added. “They will have the best medical facilities at a football club in Europe, and probably the world.

“It's something which will make a big difference to the club. Undoubtedly it will help us get players on the field quicker more often and in turn we should have less injuries as well.''
 
JPRouve said:
I already addressed that point. First if you have a grade 2 or 3 tear it's not a standard tear and you will have to see a specialist unless you are lucky and the club main doctor is a specialist in severe muscle injuries but that's true for all injuries. And the point of not rehabing at the club is mainly for comfort and convenience for the club, injured players are isolated, it's not a great experience and rehabing in places like Florida or Dubai can be better from a mental standpoint.
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I think you're being very generous and Rangnick believes in the exact opposite to what you've just said.

"My former clubs were always trying to make sure the rehab should take place in the club itself," said Rangnick.

"As far as I can tell the medical department is really good, very good, with many different approaches towards rehab. I would not want players to do their rehab abroad or anywhere else, but the decision on Paul was taken before I came.

"In the future, and I have already spoken to the medical department, I want players with injuries, and hopefully we don't get long-term injuries, but if we have them in the future I want them to stay here."

I'm with Ralf on this one. His former clubs and now United want players rehabbing at the club.
 
Marwood said:
I think you're being very generous and Rangnick believes in the exact opposite to what you've just said.

"My former clubs were always trying to make sure the rehab should take place in the club itself," said Rangnick.

"As far as I can tell the medical department is really good, very good, with many different approaches towards rehab. I would not want players to do their rehab abroad or anywhere else, but the decision on Paul was taken before I came.

"In the future, and I have already spoken to the medical department, I want players with injuries, and hopefully we don't get long-term injuries, but if we have them in the future I want them to stay here."

I'm with Ralf on this one. His former clubs and now United want players rehabbing at the club.
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And the next manager might disagree with that and change it back.
 
Amar__ said:
https://www.espn.com/soccer/news/story/_/id/1746617/manchester-united-unveil-new-medical-facility

“It's a wonderful facility, something which we can show off to new players when they come in,'' Moyes added. “They will have the best medical facilities at a football club in Europe, and probably the world.

“It's something which will make a big difference to the club. Undoubtedly it will help us get players on the field quicker more often and in turn we should have less injuries as well.''
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The for a Football club is the key part, Football clubs don't have have the best facilities in sports and they don't have better facilities than many private complexes in the World either.

Marwood said:
I think you're being very generous and Rangnick believes in the exact opposite to what you've just said.

"My former clubs were always trying to make sure the rehab should take place in the club itself," said Rangnick.

"As far as I can tell the medical department is really good, very good, with many different approaches towards rehab. I would not want players to do their rehab abroad or anywhere else, but the decision on Paul was taken before I came.

"In the future, and I have already spoken to the medical department, I want players with injuries, and hopefully we don't get long-term injuries, but if we have them in the future I want them to stay here."

I'm with Ralf on this one. His former clubs and now United want players rehabbing at the club.
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In theory there is no problem if you have the capacities to do it and if you can do it while maintaining players moral high. But as I said, it's not actually a one sided answer, for example someone mentioned De Bruyne, he did part of his rehab in Barcelona and has he mentioned himself the most difficult part was mental.

And the problem is with the bolded part, his point is sensible with short term injuries but it starts being a problem when you are talking about long term injuries. Because you need to manage the mental side of things, if Rangnick has answers to the lack of mental stimualtion of isolated players then why not, but he would be one of the few people that have answered it without a change of environment.
 
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