You mean not spoonfeeding the story to the viewer. GoW story doesn't come anywhere near the best FS stories.
Gaming PlayStation 5
- Thread starter ArmandTamzarian
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You'd be breaking yourself trying to make a game that both plays well and has a great / engrossing narrative. Would probably need more than 2-3 people mind you.As a dev I'd really love you as a user, saves me so much effort that I'd have to otherwise put.
I usually find myself champion gameplay experiences (for example when speaking to my brother who needs a 'proper' story). I'd say two of my favourite three games are mostly all about gameplay experiences with one (Witcher 3) being more of a mix of the two. But I have an appreciation for both sides.
Moby hasn't completed that either
Yeah i wouldn't be too complimentary either. The first hour was strong, it immediately reverts to the silly, pulpy, adolescent nonsense of the previous games with cartoon villains. Atrius and Kratos relationship was strong and interesting, it just felt out of place and disconnected from the rest of the game.
Ha, yeah, same, one of those time machine games.
Just playing R type now, rock hard and I’m on a fairly gentle difficulty setting too
Sh*t getting old!
Just playing R type now, rock hard and I’m on a fairly gentle difficulty setting too
Sh*t getting old!
Sorry but I don't think you are estimating the Dev effort correctly there, compared to a bunch of other similarly rated games.
I wouldn't mind it if it had actual gaming content to at least complement it. The cheesiness arrives when you add it to fill up the hole that has been left open due to the lack of actual content. There's a bunch of games that have huge dialogues and cut scenes but it isn't an issue because the game doesn't end there.
But as you can see it's enough to deceive most users. I've actually seen people complain about loading screens in others games but not having loading screens in GoW.
As I said, we really love these users.I think you're taking it a bit too far saying there's a lack of actual content. There's a legitimate criticism to be made about lacking enemy variety and certainly a lack of memorable boss fights, but the content itself is fine. It's a lengthy title with loads of interesting areas.I wouldn't mind it if it had actual gaming content to at least complement it. The cheesiness arrives when you add it to fill up the hole that has been left open due to the lack of actual content. There's a bunch of games that have huge dialogues and cut scenes but it isn't an issue because the game doesn't end there.
But as you can see it's enough to deceive most users. I've actually seen people complain about loading screens in others games but not having loading screens in GoW.
Meanwhile, I don't remember the amount and frequency of cutscenes being an issue. It's been a while since I've played it, so I'm not sure, but it didn't stand out to me. It clearly took a more cinematic approach than the previous titles, but nothing excessive. It still felt like a game with a strong combat gameplay foundation first and narrative focus second. It was never going to stack up to FromSoft titles in the gameplay department though.
As I said previously I had no issue in having cut scenes if it progressed the gameplay/enemies/areas similarly but it was the fact that it was what we were left with to remember after a certain point - quite initially - in the game with the rest being more of the same.
It's pretty lengthy for a plat, but for the main story (which excludes Nilf/Muspel) I'm not that sure. Also not sure about it having loads of interesting areas. Nilf and Muspel were basically challenge modes (one is enemy volume, other is time limit), they didn't add anything either to the main story or any particular mechanic. Muspel in particular was like it was designed in around 5 minutes.
If I really think about it from an architect's viewpoint, it feels like they overspent time on the earlier areas and their depth and as the game went on, the depth kept going down and down and that ended with Jotenheim which was basically an empty area.
It's pretty much why I feel really strongly about this because the amount of time spent on building such a brilliant foundation took a lot away from finishing it. As I've said before, if they do the next one and hopefully another one after that in a full-fledged manner - which is saying what they set out for - then people won't have any issue with this and consider this more of a preview to a couple of sequels that actually get the best out of this world (something that we have seen in previous titles). As a standalone, it falls short for me. Even if I think as a user - the experience definitely went downhill throughout the main story. I mean, there's a fair bit of those who played this game who will say that they enjoyed the first Baldr fight - an introduction to the character - a lot more than the actual final one. That says everything.I wasn't necessarily talking about the different realms, just the areas you encounter during a normal playthrough of the game. I'd say it's plenty. Then again, for years now I've grown increasingly tired of games that are too large or too long, so maybe I'm looking at it differently. It felt large enough for me for that type of game without overstaying its welcome, which is something I appreciate. I don't hold the game in as high regard as many others, more like a solid 8/10 rather than the 9 or 10 it seems to get, but it's still just, I don't know, fine, I guess?As I said previously I had no issue in having cut scenes if it progressed the gameplay/enemies/areas similarly but it was the fact that it was what we were left with to remember after a certain point - quite initially - in the game with the rest being more of the same.
It's pretty lengthy for a plat, but for the main story (which excludes Nilf/Muspel) I'm not that sure. Also not sure about it having loads of interesting areas. Nilf and Muspel were basically challenge modes (one is enemy volume, other is time limit), they didn't add anything either to the main story or any particular mechanic. Muspel in particular was like it was designed in around 5 minutes.
If I really think about it from an architect's viewpoint, it feels like they overspent time on the earlier areas and their depth and as the game went on, the depth kept going down and down and that ended with Jotenheim which was basically an empty area.
I'd say I'd always appreciate a game that has larger content given it keeps you engaged with new mechanics. A long repetitive game (I'm think Assassin's Creed) is obviously not great so I can understand if you are counting the length of the game proportional to what we got to do. I finished the main story at Level 4 which is around half of what you end up after a plat, so that didn't really take much. The number of areas you traversed were there, but for me there were a lot of "oh look a new area, let's see what's there" followed by "this guy again?!". Combat, traversal, etc was pretty flat.
But either ways saying that it was a short playthrough and didn't drag in terms of length (I didn't think it did either) takes it out of the conversation when talking about the best games of the generation. That's what I was saying - if this is an unfinished preview then let's call it that. That's pretty much how I view it especially if I look at the progression. And realms obviously were a big part of the premise. 9 from which 2 never unlocked, 2 were challenge modes, 1 was empty - there was stuff that was supposed to go in there but probably never did.
I'd be in solid 8/10 territory too. I'd be more critical of it than the average 8/10 because of the regard its held. And the expectation that regard created I suppose. I think God of War 2 and 3 are much better games and in that 9 or 10 territory so probably a bit of disappointment from that too, though i recognised they'd need to overhaul that formula a lot. Hopefully it'll be a stepping stone to something better like the first God of War. I have low expectations on the storytelling and cinematic parts of the game going forward though to try and circle back around to that.
That’s genuinely a mental opinion to me. From games are literally all about gameplay. Stories are so incredibly weird and abstract. What great story (in any medium) only involve combat? You moan about this set pieces and cinematic moments but you have to have something to actually tell the story other than just killing one dude, then another on repeat.
Tried Returnal, can't even kill Phrike (or more accurately find him again).
I like them for the world. You learn about the world by exploring it, by seeing the decay, by meeting the inhabitants - who dont regurgitate their life story and motivations in a long cutscene on meeting them, they just exist doing whatever it is they do. Show dont tell.
I've been playing games for 35+ years and in terms of memorable stories i think i'd struggle to make it past half a dozen. Last of Us, Half Life, System Shock ... struggling already ... Final Fantasy had a few good stories.
I remember experiences, i remember worlds and far, far too many to list. I'll remember Dark Souls and Bloodborne forever. Guardians of the Galaxy has a pretty good storyline and good characters and i'll have forgotten it in 6 months.
The truly great games hit both for me. Experiences in the world, and top-class storytelling/cutscenes too. Red Dead, Red Dead 2, Infamous, Ezio story on Assassins Creed, GOW, The Witcher, all left a lasting impression on me with the stories they told and the characters they created. I like games that tell me a story and let my imagination fill in the blanks, for me I cant do that in a from game where the only avenue of story is combat.
Didn't rate some of them and didn't play others. I think God of War has a relatively strong cinematic storyline but thats primarily because I think the standard is dogshit. In any other medium it'd be a saturday morning kids tv show or some equivalent. It felt like watching Thundercats or something. The Last of Us probably peaks slightly above something like Buffy the Vampire Slayer. I can get into stuff like that but they're so, so rare. When i say Guardians of the Galaxy is pretty good it'd be a tv show i turned off after 20 mins, its tolerable.
Theres just a lot of obstacles to making an actual game that people can and will interact with while telling a good story, or at least a cinematic one. I think the storyline of Portal is incredible, but its plot is you wake up in a facility and have to escape > you escape, its a simple premise and the experience of playing the game defines the story.
So while the storyline of Metal Gear Solid 2 was (this is going to be a struggle) that Snake is trying to stop the Lalilulelo by sneaking onto a boat and disabling a Metal Gear before it reaches some place but its stolen by Revolver Ocelot who's being controlled by Liquid Snake's arm which he stitched onto his stump. And the presidents daughter needs to be rescued from Bowser and its all a training exercise and virtual reality etc. etc.
My version of that storyline was some dude snuck onto a boat full of guards, ran around with a box on his head and harrased and bullied the guards until they gave up their precious, precious dog tags. Used porn as bait, had a pretty great shootout with a russian lady, cool firefight in hallway, sneaking around cult meeting and trying to figure out how to get the dogtag from guy on platform, silly kojima nonsense, more silly kojima nonsense then lots of harrasing guards on an oil tanker. And vampires. 10/10 will play again.
People are talking about FZero in one of these gaming threads and the nostalgia of going back to it and their memories of playing it. It makes no attempt whatsoever to tell a story but people have their own stories associated with it.
Occasionally games do both brilliantly. Rockstar have made a few good attempts but I think most miss so miserably that maybe they should refocus elsewhere. Or rethink their approach. Making a hollywood movie with random intervals of mass violence lasting 15 mins and Chris Pratt completely ignoring me attacking him with a rocket launcher is just so weak
I do see your point and you’re right in many ways that the medium of video games doesn’t allow for stories that are too long or complex because the moment to moment action/gameplay is much slower than on a TV show etc. What video games can do better than TV and Movies for me though is building characters into those stories. As the player you have a truly unique attachment to those characters especially when you play with them. The games I mentioned all have pretty legendary protagonists who I will remember far more than say the main guy from the walking dead (can’t even recall his name).
Come on Moby this isn’t the football forum, you can do better than that.
Don't think so bro, there's way too much to be explained here and I don't think I have the patience.
Maybe start here: https://www.youtube.com/c/VaatiVidya the go to guy for souls storytelling.
Or this book written based on the story of Bloodborne: https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/1JL5acskAT_2t062HILImBkV8eXAwaqOj611mSjK-vZ8/mobilebasic
But otherwise, there's not much to help if someone says there's no story in these games because there's no kid narrating it for half the game like a fairy tale being narrated to a toddler. Their loss.
It’s only 09:09 and I’ve had my surprise of the day already! Guardians of the Galaxy is actually good fun. Not groundbreaking in any way but fun nonetheless.
Really enjoyable game. Not something I will ever return to replay wise, but it’s been a right laugh so far
Finally defeated Phrike in Returnal, had to get a random stranger from USA to hold my hand actually starting to get really into this and think as a co op game with a good mate it's a really good game to play.
actually starting to get really into this and think as a co op game with a good mate it's a really good game to play.Finally defeated Phrike in Returnal, had to get a random stranger from USA to hold my hand
one of the best games this generation. Housemarque are god's at this making videogames stuff. no misses.
It's not usually my cup of tea but im proper getting into it now! I like the lack of hand holding
you just convinced me to start GoW again. I first started it in Jan 2020 and got to the first boss. I stopped and haven't played again because I had just completed RDR2 and decided I could not bring myself to immerse myself into another long game. The time is right now
Brilliant. Hope you get into it and enjoy it, I thought it was truly brilliant. Keep us updated on progress in here.
So..................was replaying RDR2 again and happened upon a big ass bear. Normally I'd run, or shoot it, but recently I saw a documentary about how if you stand still and show no fear, then the bear might disengage. Thought I'd give it a shot in-game, fully expecting to get mauled. The bear sprinted up to me and I kid you not, he stopped dead in his tracks yards from me, backed down and walked away.
There's levels to this shit. Insane amounts of detail that you find out four years after release.
There's levels to this shit. Insane amounts of detail that you find out four years after release.
That's brilliant. This is one game I haven't deleted since I played just because there's endless ways to enjoy it. Don't mind giving it another go.
You've said things like this before, and it's just not true. They DO have stories. The difference is, is that they just tell them differently to most games. There's more than one way to lay out a story and build lore. GoW does it in a very standard, seen-it-before, way. And it's...whatever. Fine. I don't like it, I think the game is wildly overrated, but many do and that's fine. And I'm not saying you have to like the way From games do it either. But just because you don't like it, it doesn't mean that it isn't there.
I’m not saying there isn’t a place for From games they have a huge following for a reason and I’d love to get into them. I do think the story is really minimal though. Maybe world story telling but I honestly couldn’t say what any of the games are really about. Maybe I’m too stupid or childish as others have put it to understand
I bought the Street Fighter 30th Anniversary collection the other day and have been playing that. I am wildly out of practice. I forgot how hard most of the older games were. I know they were made that way to get your money, but goddamn! Guile is kicking my arse.
I’m not saying there isn’t a place for From games they have a huge following for a reason and I’d love to get into them. I do think the story is really minimal though. Maybe world story telling but I honestly couldn’t say what any of the games are really about. Maybe I’m too stupid or childish as others have put it to understand
It's not a case of being stupid, you may just not like them - that's fine. Again, I really don't like GoW, but that's just me. It obviously has something going for it as it's a game that's held in high esteem. I just take issue with the "From games only got [insert one thing here] gong for it" Or it has no story. Yes, they are deliberately obtuse in how they tell that story and how the lore unfolds, but it's there. Again, it's just a different way of doing it, as opposed to an absence of it.
From are bad at story telling in their own way. They're too obscure. Too much of it is placed on item descriptions. They have their own problems.I’m not saying there isn’t a place for From games they have a huge following for a reason and I’d love to get into them. I do think the story is really minimal though. Maybe world story telling but I honestly couldn’t say what any of the games are really about. Maybe I’m too stupid or childish as others have put it to understand
They definitely have a story but its obscure, your never entirely sure whats going on (which is kind of intentional, the first dark souls is about a world and a history thats a lie built to trick you). Its interesting but if you dont really go out of your way to speculate and read up the wiki and watch youtube videos about bits of lore your not going to have a clear idea of whats going on. Which is ok in ways, i think the worlds themselves tell their own stories. But story wise they're going to be marmite, you either read up obsessively or not at all and have no real idea of whats going on.
I usually just go straight through and try and soak it up a bit. Maybe towards the end i'll start looking up videos about earlier bosses who seemed interesting or just scroll through inventory reading item descriptions but i try to keep it for second playthrough where i'll be more completionist and look up quest guides and things like that. Then i'd look up youtube video's or reddit where theres endless speculation and theories which is quite interesting and unique for gaming in many ways.
I found Elden Ring in particular really interesting lore wise, thats the one i got into above all others where i have a rough outline of whats going but not much more
I've played and finished Dark Souls and have barely any idea what the story was, I aint got time for the obscure placing of lore in wherever they hide it.
Yeah but you have your own stories about the hours and hours you spent fighting Ornstein and Smough, complete with Rocky training montages when you leveled up or upgraded some weapons. About seeing Queelag the first time, about how much you hate blightown and how anor londo archers can go feck themselves.
I mean the basic outline of the game is you're the prophesised undead, there to relink the fire.
feck Blighttown.
This, for me, is why Witcher 3 is such a gold standard.
Dark Souls story is meant to be found in the things and items they scatter around for you to find. Little pieces of information here and there to build a world and narrative. The Witcher 3, however, not only does this better by far, but it also builds a compelling story arc on top of all those things. They could have settled for Geralt finding items for world-building and narrative, but credit to CD Projekt Red; they didn't settle where FromSoftware did.
Souls games are brilliant gameplay experiences, but they're not emotional narratives. That'll hold Souls games back. They've taken to open worlds now, but honestly, it was unnecessary. It was just an empty open world. FromSoftware don't get criticism for this from critics, but they should.
Witcher 3 had a great story but i found the game very mediocre. I mean theres a few storylines in gaming that are outstanding like Disco Elysium which stands up well vs any other medium but the game portion of it is a bit limited and there isn't much of note outside the story line. Theres a bunch of visual novel kind of games too and they're interesting but they kind of feel like a very different thing to the God of Wars of the industry.