It really doesn't matter which formation you play. The key thing is to remain flexible. Because the rigid 442 teams used to play allowed the opposition to play between those banks of 4 for example.
Playing with a midfield of 1 person
- Thread starter noodlehair
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It really doesn't matter which formation you play. The key thing is to remain flexible. Because the rigid 442 teams used to play allowed the opposition to play between those banks of 4 for example.
The first goal we started our build up play with 2 men in midfield (Casemiro and Mainoo) not just 1. As Mainoo carried the ball forward, the other players like de Ligt, Martinez, Casemiro, Dalot, Mazraoui also pushed higher to attack, which nothing wrong with that. But when Mainoo passed the ball to Bruno, Bruno played backward to Casemiro which is why it exposed us in dangerous position because it left us with only Casemiro, de Ligt and Martinez as the last men. Imo the first goal was down to Casemiro poor passing and Bruno’s decision to play backward.
The second goal was down to Casemiro.
Third goal was either poor structure in midfield or Collyer didn’t follow the instruction to be compact.
The second goal was down to Casemiro.
Third goal was either poor structure in midfield or Collyer didn’t follow the instruction to be compact.
I’m sure last season in an interview when asked why he doesn’t change the system he said something along the lines of what’s the point. They have a vision and are trying to get there, there is no point in changing it to accommodate a few.
I gather he meant the ones that don’t suit will be moved on and we will continue to move on with the ones that will stay therefore better development of the overall plan.
Given football is a results basis, this seems like a very risky thing to do. Unless of course he’s been given assurances that this is a long term project and he is just seeing this through until the footballing culture within the club is set. Whomever follows after can pick up where he left off.
Do feel that the return of Shaw given he is an overall better footballer probably would provide the midfield a bit more solidity as he isn’t as much of a risk taker as Dalot or Maz and probably plays that inverted FB role better.
All we need then is for people to not pass to the opposition when everyone is running forward and hopefully things improve.
I for one enjoy seeing a display of magic from Hogwarts. For too long football has stayed in the physical world, and I'm just glad somebody finally has the guts to show off their powerful display.
Ah, we’ll be unbeatable when Shaw comes back. I thought that excuse was exposed last year.
Liverpool played the exact same set up us us. Difference is their players executed it better.
If that's true why does he stick with players for so long and not moved them on? Rashford and Antony should have been dropped long ago because they didn't fit the system and stunk. It was obvious to almost anyone Casemiro wasn't going to work at least a year and a half ago and he stuck with him. ETH had three windows to improve on Casemiro, last summer, winter and this summer, and only did something this summer late. ETH is too stubborn for his own good and, I think, not too smart.
Fabinho did it at Liverpool for a few years, Rodri is doing it at City.
Rodri's "partner" in midfield has been De Bruyne for the past couple of seasons. He's just as attacking as a Mount and probably more than Mainoo. Gundogan has been the more advanced number 8 there, he has played off the striker the same way Bruno has.
The issue is we don't have Rodri who can deal with it. We still don't have Rodri in Ugarte but atleast Ugarte has the legs to get back and try and plug spaces.
For the next 3 seasons I'd rather have Rodri than Ugarte, but I'd also want Mainoo over KDB and Bruno over Gundogan. We can't judge a thing until we play a couple of games atleast of the Ugarte, Mainoo and Fernandes trio.
Ten Hag will need it to work and for us to look more solid defensively over 90 minutes. From what I've seen this season it's quite similar to last year in the sense that we're usually quite tight with the Plan A for 60 mins, but Plan A isn't attacking enough, or we're not clinical enough to score the goal we need, and when we switch to Plan B, it turns the game into a shootout, and we don't always win the shootout. We're more likely to score but also concede.
Ten Hag has not found a Plan A system and lineup, that works for him from minute 1 to 90 in matches.
If the starting 11 defence and midfield, is now here, and Hojlund is now fit with Garnacho, Amad and Rashford available, then it's now or never for Ten Hag.
INEOS are well within their right to pull the plug on Ten Hag if in the next 5 games it's not clear that he's figured out a plan A that works with the new starting 11. No manager can demand a world class starting 11, and top class bench before they show they have a working plan. It's over to Ten Hag now, and I hope he succeeds in proving that he had the plan all along but needed the 11 pieces of the puzzle to prove it.
Rodri's "partner" in midfield has been De Bruyne for the past couple of seasons. He's just as attacking as a Mount and probably more than Mainoo. Gundogan has been the more advanced number 8 there, he has played off the striker the same way Bruno has.
The issue is we don't have Rodri who can deal with it. We still don't have Rodri in Ugarte but atleast Ugarte has the legs to get back and try and plug spaces.
For the next 3 seasons I'd rather have Rodri than Ugarte, but I'd also want Mainoo over KDB and Bruno over Gundogan. We can't judge a thing until we play a couple of games atleast of the Ugarte, Mainoo and Fernandes trio.
Ten Hag will need it to work and for us to look more solid defensively over 90 minutes. From what I've seen this season it's quite similar to last year in the sense that we're usually quite tight with the Plan A for 60 mins, but Plan A isn't attacking enough, or we're not clinical enough to score the goal we need, and when we switch to Plan B, it turns the game into a shootout, and we don't always win the shootout. We're more likely to score but also concede.
Ten Hag has not found a Plan A system and lineup, that works for him from minute 1 to 90 in matches.
If the starting 11 defence and midfield, is now here, and Hojlund is now fit with Garnacho, Amad and Rashford available, then it's now or never for Ten Hag.
INEOS are well within their right to pull the plug on Ten Hag if in the next 5 games it's not clear that he's figured out a plan A that works with the new starting 11. No manager can demand a world class starting 11, and top class bench before they show they have a working plan. It's over to Ten Hag now, and I hope he succeeds in proving that he had the plan all along but needed the 11 pieces of the puzzle to prove it.
Good thing we are playing with a double pivot this season then isn’t it
It’s not about just one player. If we had Rodri, we would be still be getting exposed, although to a lesser extent.
All the successful teams current or in the past who have deployed this system have 3 things in common 1) They have a co-ordinated press and counter press 2) They have players all over the field who can keep the ball and don’t loose it cheaply 3) They have attacking players who are clinical and can kill the game in seconds.
You could probably manage without 1 of the 3, but more than that its a disaster.
Our press is not always co-ordinated and opponents are able to break it more often than not. That means more number of moments in a match where they are left with more space.
We are very careless with the ball and loose it often and in dangerous areas. Same impact as above with an additional downside of demoralising our defence and tiring our midfielders who need to make more recovery runs.
We are terrible at the final pass and finishing the chances. This means that we hardly capitalise during the moments we are on the up. Opponents become more comfortable and are willing to take more risks. It also means that more often than not, we are either drawing or protecting a slender lead in the last 15-20 minutes, putting our team under more pressure.
Bottom line, its not a good excuse to say other teams are doing it so the fault lies in execution by the players. It is the manager’s job to come up with a plan that maximises the strengths of his players and minimises the weaknesses. Deploying the same plan over and over again despite failing regularly is a sackable offence.
the tempo is simply too high. There is barely any time for players to think. Also we commit too many players forward only for them to refuse to backtrack quick enough once we lose the possession of the ball. Thus quick counters are lethal against us.
I think the fault lie on both manager and players. I understand that ETH is trying to boost the team's goal record by committing as many players forward as possible. However there's no excuse in unbalancing the team like that. If our forward line can't break a deep line despite the fact that we're committing enough players forward then its down to our forward line not being good enough. We shouldn't rob Peter (ie stability in midfield and defense) to rob Paul (ie commit as many bodies as possible in a bid to score goals)
Are they refusing or just plain incapable of doing so? To me it almost seems too much ground to cover for the players.
I look at our team and EtH's plan and I just wonder how he could commit to this when the squad still doesn't look robust enough to handle it. The backline doesn't have a great deal of pace, our DM is aging rapidly, and the attack just isn't clinical enough, and all this after spending 600 million. This team is still a million miles away from Klopp's old Liverpool team in terms of pace and power which is clearly how he wants to play.
I think that United had been ridiculously one dimensional since late SAF's time. Defensively we're only solid when we commit many bodies at the back. Offensively we're only capable of scoring goals if we hit on the counter (ie by outpacing defenses before they get organized). Our squad is unable to break a low block, its unable to score/defend a set piece and is easily caught on a counter. I think the following things should be learnt
a- letting a manager with barely any EPL experience to having the biggest say on transfers decisions is crazy. Even SAF made transfer mistakes and he knew the EPL inside out, let alone someone who only really managed in the Eredivisie.
b- SAF showed that a club can win the EPL title comfortable with a 35 year old something in CM partnered by a donkey (Cleverley) in the team. That's because balance is everything. Scholes provided the quality and Cleverley the legs. What one cannot afford is having players who contribute next to nothing to the side. We've got too many wingers who contribute work rate wise at par to prime Cristiano Ronaldo but produce 1/100 of his assists and goals. That's not good enough. First of all even in our prime we could only afford one Cristiano Ronaldo (we ended up stocking the midfield/forward line with absolute workrate beast such as Rooney, Teveth and Park). Now we tend to have 2 wingers who produce a similar level of workrate (two out of Garnacho/Rashy and Antony). Secondly because their end product simply do not justify their lack of work rate.
c- ETH can't and shouldn't aid the forward line to the expense of defense and midfield. Its unfair on the midfield (Mainoo in particular risk a burn out) and the defense who had been under a ridiculous level of scrutiny and criticism. We should be playing a balanced style (Bruno tracking back when we're defending, if one fullback goes up then the other stay put, the two at the base CM shouldn't go too forward etc) and then expect our 200k-300k a week forward line to score goals. If they fail to do so then its evident that they are not good enough and therefore need replacing
It'll never happen but my wish would be for him to play Ugarte as the water carrier, Eriksen besides him as the midfield passer who can keeps things ticking and Mainoo is front of them who can drop deep when needed and provides the ball retention, dribbling and creative spark in the attacking areas.
Rest of the team picks itself with Onana, Mazraoui, deLigt, Martinez and Shaw at the back and a front three of Amad, Zirkzee, Rashford.
Bruno just doesn't work for me as he constantly loses the ball when pressured or makes wayward passed to nowhere. He can come in as a late sub for Mainoo or play #10 in domestic cup games and in Europa. Still plenty of games for him to start and earn that massive wage increase.
Rest of the team picks itself with Onana, Mazraoui, deLigt, Martinez and Shaw at the back and a front three of Amad, Zirkzee, Rashford.
Bruno just doesn't work for me as he constantly loses the ball when pressured or makes wayward passed to nowhere. He can come in as a late sub for Mainoo or play #10 in domestic cup games and in Europa. Still plenty of games for him to start and earn that massive wage increase.