It will give ETH another reason to complain about losing McTominay.
Playing with a midfield of 1 person
- Thread starter noodlehair
- Start date
We didn't play 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 today... we played 4-4-2.
Whatever it is, Bruno that far up the pitch simply doesn't work.
It doesn't matter how many midfielders you have or what formation you play, if you pass the ball away or lose possesion in the areas we did constantly today, at this level you will be punished, Martinez, Casemiro and Mainoo were guilty of that on numerous occasions today
It's a 316 in possession, the intent being to overload the opposition defense after the turnover.
People act like this is some batshit crazy idea Ten Hag came up with one day, but it's been a perfectly valid strategy in football for a lot of managers (including Guardiola) for about a decade.
The problem is we do it pretty badly. Blame him for the execution, not the idea.
Anyway, we moved to 325 in possession in the second half, and looked more toothless for it. Could you not just bang your head against the wall? I know I can.
People act like this is some batshit crazy idea Ten Hag came up with one day, but it's been a perfectly valid strategy in football for a lot of managers (including Guardiola) for about a decade.
The problem is we do it pretty badly. Blame him for the execution, not the idea.
Anyway, we moved to 325 in possession in the second half, and looked more toothless for it. Could you not just bang your head against the wall? I know I can.
That's the pressing shape 4-4-2, 4-2-3-1 or 4-2-4
When in possession it's 3-1-6, 3-2-5 or 2-3-5
Are you sure you're not including Onana in the 4?
sadly not...that was today which is crazy to see the same issue
which made no sense simply that Mainoo has to hold with Cas for two reasons....1, Cas is slow but hell so is Mainoo and 2...Diaz and Salah don't really track so with Dalot and/or Maz playing so high, we were primed to get countered so both needed to be back to help stop the counter
all 3 goals came from getting countered after turning the ball over in our half of the pitch yet no one was in the middle to plug the open spaces where two of the three goals came from
To me it looks like a 4-4-2 (except Garnacho was dropping deep to support Mazraoui).
Looks like a mostly failed 3-2-5 to me.
Funny seeing the shamed 3-1 structure for Liverpool. Obviously it can't work
We have played this 4-4-2 setup in all 3 games this season, the only difference today was that Zirkzee came in for Mount. It's a stupid setup that leaves us outnumbered in the middle.
I absolutely hope he does get the push. He’s really used up the patience I had remaining , and I’m beginning to detest the guy now. His stubborn retention of a system that has never worked and will never work is driving us all mad. I had hopes of INEOS but clinging to ETH demonstrates their failure to grasp the situation. When will this fecking end?
I must have been watching a different match then because I could have swore Liverpool had 4 on 2 for one of their goals
Their offside goal also came from Gravenberch walking through our entire midfield.
Exactly, it was ridiculously easy
After the last midfielder gave them the ball yes. Its like when we press high and win the ball off the defender, then saying their defence was too open. No that was a stupid error you don’t give the ball away in those circumstances.
People keep saying what a good game Dalot had but we were wide open down that side. Maybe this was on Rashford but collectively it was a cluster and Liverpool exploited it at will
Yeah, this. It's a bit crazy that in this day and age people think anybody plays one formation through a match.
If I was to broadly categorise it, it says we were 442 in our own third, 316 in possession in the first half, 325 in the second, and 2what the feck is going on, for several intermittent periods.
So you have 8 men in forward positions and just pray that we don’t give the ball away?
Or to sum up, clueless all over
That's why I haven't been too harsh on the players for a while, slackers like Sancho aside.
Nobody can look good playing under this clown.
Possibly the worst tactician I've ever seen.
Nobody can look good playing under this clown.
Possibly the worst tactician I've ever seen.
Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth
I asked you already in another thread. I honestly don’t know what you’re talking about here. We have two central midfielders. Are you implying one of them, Casemiro? Mainoo? Is playing as a support striker? One of them very high up the pitch (which one?) the other just outside our box. Because I’m not seeing that.
Can you expand on what you’re seeing here?
We played a 4-4-2, Liverpool's most attacking midfielder actually plays midfield.
Absolute disgrace. Rashford and Bruno to blame, Bruno hides so much, the ghost.To me it looks like a 4-4-2 (except Garnacho was dropping deep to support Mazraoui).
Liverpool saw this comming a mile off. They pressured the midfielders and knew they would make a mistake. Then they knew the fullbacks and midfielders etc would be too high so they could counter with an overload. It's immature tactics. Slots kids probably helped him put together the tactical plan
I’ve never understood it. We’ve played it for years now…almost obsessed with a 10. Bruno always advanced, pressing shadows.
Should just be a rigid 433. A sitting DM and 2 box to box midfielders.
Ugarte, Mainoo, Mount (I suspect) would work better than Ugarte, Mainoo or Mount and Bruno
We’re just leaving ourselves so wide open.
I flip flop with Bruno. He was terrible for large parts of last seasons but did pick up towards the end. And he’s started again badly this time around. He’s obviously capable of the sublime but he’s so wasteful. I’m not sure that’s a luxury we can afford at the minute
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i think they were watching the wrong match....ffs we didn't have a single mid in defense for the diaz second goal nor salah's goal
There is such a massive lack of responsibility from some players to improve our possession play.
have you missed the last decade of football?
The 4-2-2-2 only works if you stay compact. We were anything but today. The front two are supposed to drop into midfield to give us a numerical advantage while out of possession, and it was very clear the players were not set up for when we lost the ball. It was a collective and coaching failure; yes the individual mistakes were awful, but individual mistakes in the centre of the park only cost us so much because the set-up is so bad. I can't defend Ten Hag for this one, he has not effectively coached the players on how to play this system effectively, especially against such a good counter-attacking team.
It’s pretty much a 424….with the 31 from the 4231 pushing very high
essentially though it remains a 4231. Case and Mainoo in midfield and 4 advanced players
It killed us last season and early signs suggest it will do so again. If it carries on I expect it’ll cost him his job.
Can almost understand it…if the midfield 2 push up and the defence isn’t too far behind them. But is been happening for too long. Perhaps with the new players brought in it’ll change and we’ll see improvement in the coming weeks with players returning. Needs to happen quickly though. For THs sake
It kills me watching it because I have never known a Man Utd team that was poor on the break.
I have been spoiled. I remember Giggs and Kanchelskis bombing through and cutting teams to shreds on the break. It was a feature for my whole life as a United fan, apart from under Van Gaal. Even when we played s-t on a stick 30% possession under Mourinho...
...yet all of a sudden we can't do it.
Since EtH made Bruno captain, and refuses to drop him, we will always have this problem. Even if we bring in Rabiot and switch to a 3-man midfield he will find a way to still fit Bruno in. With a stronger 3-man midfield Bruno just can’t be accommodated, good player that he is. We are a complete mash-up of a team that desperately needs to strengthen midfield and find better attacking options up front.
I just watched the post match press conference, and it was a really difficult watch. There's just no talking to ETH. He won't listen.
Journalist "I appreciate what you say about players needing time to get in and that's indisputably true, but the mistakes that you team made today are the mistakes they've been making for 2 years. What makes you confident that it's players that are the problem and not your coaching?"
ETH "So what do you mean...tell me then...explain me...maybe can explain me which mistakes we make regularly"
Journalist "Well...constantly turning the ball over in your own half, playing the ball out from the back, getting mugged, chances coming off the back of it, counter attacks when you're out-numbered, giving up endless chances in your own stadium against the team's biggest rivals. With the greatest respect Erik, we have been seeing that for so long now"
ETH "You are sure?"
Journalist "Absolutely"
ETH (Patronising Laugh) "I don't think, otherwise you wouldn't win trophies as we did, and to beat big opponents, so I'm sorry for you. I have another vision.
Journalist "With the greatest respect, you play brilliantly against City in that final, you almost lost to Cambridge in the semi final. Come on, have a realistic view of what happened
ETH "I think we won after City the most trophies in English football so I'm sorry for you"
Journalist "I appreciate what you say about players needing time to get in and that's indisputably true, but the mistakes that you team made today are the mistakes they've been making for 2 years. What makes you confident that it's players that are the problem and not your coaching?"
ETH "So what do you mean...tell me then...explain me...maybe can explain me which mistakes we make regularly"
Journalist "Well...constantly turning the ball over in your own half, playing the ball out from the back, getting mugged, chances coming off the back of it, counter attacks when you're out-numbered, giving up endless chances in your own stadium against the team's biggest rivals. With the greatest respect Erik, we have been seeing that for so long now"
ETH "You are sure?"
Journalist "Absolutely"
ETH (Patronising Laugh) "I don't think, otherwise you wouldn't win trophies as we did, and to beat big opponents, so I'm sorry for you. I have another vision.
Journalist "With the greatest respect, you play brilliantly against City in that final, you almost lost to Cambridge in the semi final. Come on, have a realistic view of what happened
ETH "I think we won after City the most trophies in English football so I'm sorry for you"
I don't mind this from any manager. Start to openly admit mistakes to journalists and that's a slippery slope. Nothing wrong with pushing back. Plenty to legitimately criticise him for as it is.
fecking hate formation with number 10, cant stand that shit.
Other teams do it too. Including Liverpool today. Better teams have players who make better choices