Exactly. All of their midfielders could be considered lightweight. They just read the game better and faster and have much better movement and technique than ours.
Playing Fellaini ahead of Mata in the #10 role
- Thread starter Sam
- Start date
Maybe im imagining things but our frontline at the end consisted of Rooney, Fellaini and Smalling. Or something like that. Who the hell knows what it was.
I may be the odd one out, but I thought Fellaini had a decent game. Managed to hold the ball (before we are down to ten) and set up quite a few chances for teammates. Most notably put Di Maria one on one before we went on to concede right after. Oh how different it may be if Di Maria is on form and finish that chance. Once down to ten man and a goal down, we start to pump the ball aimlessly to fellaini and that that was bad play from everyone. He is good in the air but not that good when those long balls are not measured. That I say is typical "long ball" United.
Yet another game where:
1. Fellaini played quite well.
2. Showed he must be sold immediately.
1. Fellaini played quite well.
2. Showed he must be sold immediately.
Use him as an impact player late in the game to change things up or don't use him at all.
Rooney moved back to midfield with Fellaini and Smalling up front and Blind filling in behind. What does LVG keep thinking
Don't think he did well yesterday but it showed if anything that he shouldn't be starting. He encourages long ball play, he isn't great technically and instead of having a player who is quality on the ball in our main creative hub position, we have a target man. It hinders our play a lot. Where we should have an attacking midfielder picking the ball up and finding space between the lines, we just have a big open space with fellaini going on the last man to knock the ball down. He can play well individually, but it's not what we should be doing and it's holding us back. He's played well on the whole this season but him being out there does more harm then good imo. He's just not suited to United.
Aye. Agree with this. Unless of course you're saying it tongue in cheek
This tactic is a waste of time, and so is the player. 3 games in a row where he has been inconsequential, stealing a place while better players sit on the bench. For someone of his size and physique, he still can't use his strength as a weapon in a match. Even if you say against Swansea where other players weren't competing for the second balls off him, last night again where Arsenal was happy to swat away header that came their way. Not to forget, he can't even direct his headers properly for such a big man who is supposed to be a threat in the air and then running around with his arms in the air after he couldn't even pass 5-10 yards after chesting the ball down.
Plan C has become plan A. At least in the first half we had some decent territory so we could use him in dangerous areas. After Herrera went off we couldn't keep up with the pace of the game and he became a hairy bouy bobbing up and down in the ocean. He's a giant foul machine. We kick it to him and sometimes he controls it, sometimes he loses it and fouls people.
He needs to cut his hair. It's like a sponge up there. It must mess up his headers something fierce.
I don't get why he must be sold. He's a real menace in that position. You play him there and surround him with technical players and he will be a big help. He's good at holding the ball and has good control both on the floor and in the air. As long as we don't resort to hoofing it forward and use his skills in a similar way we did yesterday there is no reason why he should be a second option at the least.
Fellaini did well the fist half when he received the ball. The second half we played with such a slow tempo that he faded, but the problem is that he created things but the all game has to be adapted with him.
We had no need to keep him on the pitch during the last 20 minutes. Things should be done and not introducing Mata as the link between a shit midfield and Rooney alone was a bad choice
We had no need to keep him on the pitch during the last 20 minutes. Things should be done and not introducing Mata as the link between a shit midfield and Rooney alone was a bad choice
He was the fine in the first half. He played well and we used him effectively.
The 2nd half was a complete disaster though.
The 2nd half was a complete disaster though.
He's clumsy. Another game where he concedes a boat load of free kicks. Eight in today's match.
Criminal, absolutely criminal.
This is funny and true.
He did alright - some good stuff (chest control and bringing others into it) and some inexcusable shit (getting muscled off the ball by Francis Coquelin) as well as the million pointless fouls that are standard with his game.
The problem is, we're playing a style of football with him that we're not replicating throughout the rest of our game plan, thus it makes is poorer overall. We're trying a slow possession based game, only to lump it forward to Fellaini, where he tries to do the best he can, but more often then not there is no one around him to pick up second balls/flick-ons, because nobody else on the pitch seems to playing the direct style of football that he has been instructed to play.
It's my big problem with our long ball approach - either our players don't really know how to play it (understandable to a point - as it's not something any of them will have trained often) in that you have to get around Fellaini to win that second ball/get that flick on - or they're other instructions (keep ball) mean that they're not in the right place to be able to do it. This goes without mentioning that Fellaini's actual heading ability isn't great, and he's at his most dangerous when we play it to his chest, yet we still aim for the head more often than not.
When your main creative tactic is pumping the ball up to Fellaini then your side has major issues and that's what is being discussed here. Not if Fellaini had a good game or that he tried hard, it's that the tactics that are being used.
Fellaini should play up top. Rooney as the #10.
Having a target man in the AM position is a bit strange. Double so because that AM lacks the creativity to find his striker on a consistent basis.
Having a target man in the AM position is a bit strange. Double so because that AM lacks the creativity to find his striker on a consistent basis.
I don't want to criticise Fellaini, because he actually played well and doesnt deserve it.
There is a big but......he is everything i detest about our current set up. Long ball tactics, old school target man knock downs, just generally ugly and boring football.
We are not good to watch, and despite our record, i am not convinced that its effective at all. (probabably stating the obvious here)
It is quite honestly disturbing to watch us play this way.
There is a big but......he is everything i detest about our current set up. Long ball tactics, old school target man knock downs, just generally ugly and boring football.
We are not good to watch, and despite our record, i am not convinced that its effective at all. (probabably stating the obvious here)
It is quite honestly disturbing to watch us play this way.
This tbh, I pretty much agree.
We basically play percentage football now in order to create.
I feel sorry for him, he does his best but doesn't look like he's enjoying it either. It's very difficult to defend Van Gaal and his 'playstyle' when you see how he uses Fellaini currently and the options we have on the bench.
Really??? I missed the end - bizarre tactics if true
Fellaini was a striker not a 10
Mata needs to be given some game time. He is a quality player that can create and score goals.
He played up front when di Maria got sent off but I thought he was pretty deep. Seems as though he's under instruction to just run forward when one of our midfielders/defenders get the ball so that we can find him with a long ball. At times he was up front, other behind Rooney and sometimes alongside Herrera.
The worst thing is, we don't start off playing hoofball even with Fellaini in the side. There's a good long pass or two from Di Maria or Rooney towards him but most of our play is on the ground. But at some point in the game, we inexplicably decide not to pass the ball anymore and start hoofing it at every opportunity. And then we turn to shit.
When Allardyce said we are a long ball team, he wasn't wrong at all. We play with Fellaini like he is our best and most important player.
He wasn't deep at all, all game long he was the last player to comeback and the first player around the box, sometimes he was dropping a little bit but he was clearly playing the second striker role.
Agreed on the first comment. I'm obviously not a huge fan of Fellaini but he was decent yesterday and managed to play a few neat through balls etc. However, his close control is abysmal at times and he has the agility of a giraffe for that No 10/most advanced midfielder in a midfield trio role.
He is generally a decent short passer but tends to have nightmarish games in this regard as well (against Pool first half and Southampton for eg) where he misplaces the easiest of passes. It just seems wrong that Fellaini is picked ahead of Mata in recent matches for that position. Don't get me wrong, Fellaini has put in some decent performances and Mata has had some anonymous games but its high time Mata gets a chance again.
Don't think we need to sell him though. He can be a decent squad member but will never be starting material for United. Although it is tempting to get rid of him for good so that this long ball nonsense stops for good.
I find it hilarious how many people seem to just see Fellaini's name on the teamsheet and then dont even bother to watch the match, but rather just assume we spent 90 minutes hoofing the ball up pitch.
Having a physical presence and an aerial threat in the team is very valuable to diversify our attack. This doesnt mean playing hoofball, this means giving us options.
Look back at last year when we were swinging in crosses constantly and had nobody to get on the end of them. Having a physical presence up front forces the opponent to change the way they defend - they can no longer just sit back and allow the ball to come in (in the knowledge that they can outjump us), but rather they have to try to stop the ball coming in.
The above may seem like a small difference but can in fact be a complete game changer. If the opponent has to stop the ball coming in rather than just packing the middle and basically force us to cross it (because all other avenues are cut off) then the gameplan changes. We have seen it a few times this season when this has been the case, and by forcing the opponent to defend wider areas it actually opens up space in the middle for us to attack and exploit.
To put this another way - had Mata played last night instead of Fellaini, here is what I think would have happened (roughly);
We would get the ball, Arsenal would defend the middle of the pitch, denying Mata and co. any space to work with. They would thus inevitably have to send the ball out wide to Young and ADM, who would be forced to cross the ball because they have no other option. They cross the ball in, and Mertesacker has a right old laugh as he comfortably deals with it. Repeat for 90 minutes.
Having that physical presence who can challenge opposing CBs is a vital factor for us at the moment. Until we have players like Silva, Aguero, Hazard, Coutinho, Sterling etc who are capable of beating a man or unlocking a defense, or just scoring a cracker from range. We have none of that on a consistent basis.
Having a physical presence and an aerial threat in the team is very valuable to diversify our attack. This doesnt mean playing hoofball, this means giving us options.
Look back at last year when we were swinging in crosses constantly and had nobody to get on the end of them. Having a physical presence up front forces the opponent to change the way they defend - they can no longer just sit back and allow the ball to come in (in the knowledge that they can outjump us), but rather they have to try to stop the ball coming in.
The above may seem like a small difference but can in fact be a complete game changer. If the opponent has to stop the ball coming in rather than just packing the middle and basically force us to cross it (because all other avenues are cut off) then the gameplan changes. We have seen it a few times this season when this has been the case, and by forcing the opponent to defend wider areas it actually opens up space in the middle for us to attack and exploit.
To put this another way - had Mata played last night instead of Fellaini, here is what I think would have happened (roughly);
We would get the ball, Arsenal would defend the middle of the pitch, denying Mata and co. any space to work with. They would thus inevitably have to send the ball out wide to Young and ADM, who would be forced to cross the ball because they have no other option. They cross the ball in, and Mertesacker has a right old laugh as he comfortably deals with it. Repeat for 90 minutes.
Having that physical presence who can challenge opposing CBs is a vital factor for us at the moment. Until we have players like Silva, Aguero, Hazard, Coutinho, Sterling etc who are capable of beating a man or unlocking a defense, or just scoring a cracker from range. We have none of that on a consistent basis.
Is that a clip of Mata from his Chelsea days? If so, the fact that you have to look back that far to find such an example pretty much proves the point.
Last game he started he scored.
I can see why Fellaini starts some games but Arsenal's team is generally small. Should have went with Mata at no.10. I mean us playing him deeper today to break up play but up against a footballing smaller team like Arsenal today I think Mata would have been effective today.
Mata can do it on a consistent basis. Im not saying he has been impressive, far from it. He has been equally as bad as any of our players. But the fact that he cannot score on a consistent basis is a bit harsh. Last season he wasn't impressive either. Still had 6 goals and 4 assists in 14 games. Even at his worst he provides some end product fairly regularly.
Not seen much of Man Utd this season but had heard about this long ball tactic. We dealt with it well but was a bit shocked really, seems like taking the easy route and not something I'd expect of Man Utd. If Moyes had done this last season he would have been panned for it. Van Gaal must have some serious distrust in some of your players to resort to this.