Playing Fellaini ahead of Mata in the #10 role

Sam

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It happened last week from the start at Swansea, and it happened again today when Falcao was subbed for the big Belgium, and I just don't get it.

Now let me make it clear, this is not a dig at Fellaini thread at all. He has his strengths, that we all know, and he has had a pretty good season. He can also be very useful to have at the top end of the pitch, as we saw vs Preston. He's strong, very good in the air, and can cause real panic is the opposition box, what he is not, is a technical, creative player. Now surely, that is exactly the type of player you want in the #10 role, a player like, you know, Juan Mata.

I just don't get it. We're playing Fellaini in a role that doesn't suit his needs at all, all the while a player like Mata, who loves this kind of football, sits on the bench. What is LVG playing at? :confused:
 
I think Fellaini is seen as a striker and since it was Rooney who was coming off. I don't know, just trying to understand LVG's weird logic.
 
It made a bit more sense against Swansea because we were desperate...but against Sunderland, at home, against 10 men, in a game we were winning. It's ridiculous.

Fellaini will stand out a bit more when the team is struggling to make an impact and you need a presence up there to target. It's just a waste of when you're already well on top and you're crying out for the final pass and a bit of composure.
 
Fellaini's job when playing in that position isn't to create. It's to get into the box and score from crosses. That's his main role. He's also there to add steel, keep possession and play it out wide occasionally. He's not their to create chances for our striker and wingers.
 
That's a confusing thread title because Fellaini actually did play ahead of Mata in the #10 role, positionally, when they were both on the pitch.

I think Sam means "in preference to Mata".

I like Fellaini with his back to goal. I thought he looked more comfortable in the last few minutes.
 
If we're playing with one of them at #10 then it should certainly be Mata.

Not totally sure that Fellaini has really been used in that way too often though.
 
Dante said:
That's a confusing thread title because Fellaini actually did play ahead of Mata in the #10 role, positionally, when they were both on the pitch.

I think Sam means "in preference to Mata".

I like Fellaini with his back to goal. I thought he looked more comfortable in the last few minutes.
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Yeah, once Mata came on with 5 minutes left.

Before that Fellaini came on to replace Falcao and move to the #10, ahead of Mata.
 
It took LvG ages to figure out the value and impact of starting with Herrera.
I think LvG will take another bunch of weeks to figure out the same about Mata. I know Mata is good enough, he will make his space and replace the strikers/Fellaini
 
Kazi said:
Fellaini's job when playing in that position isn't to create. It's to get into the box and score from crosses. That's his main role. He's also there to add steel, keep possession and play it out wide occasionally. He's not their to create chances for our striker and wingers.
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What a horrible waste of a player if thats the case. Especially at home to teams like Sunderland.

I thought the 'philosophy' was all about keeping the ball on the ground? :confused:
 
sullydnl said:
If we're playing with one of them at #10 then it should certainly be Mata.

Not totally sure that Fellaini has really been used in that way too often though.
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I definitely think he has in his recent performances.

I reckon LvG likes to have a bit of physicality close to his midfielders and also up top, but he's falling between two stools playing Fellaini where he's been.
 
van Gaal has said a few times that he actually sees Fellaini as a striker.

Also lol at 'big Belgium'.
 
Understand it today, though I would have changed it after we went 1-0 up. He provides that aerial presence and strength up front to actually hold up the ball and helps with the crosses. Mata should be starting IMO, and as good as Fellaini plays I still wouldn't start him because he's ideal as a plan B player, or at least I'd start him in only certain matches.
 
They were down to 10, we were attacking their wings time and time again. Fellaini made sense. Especially how narrow they were playing with two centrebacks and 3 midfielders sitting in front.
 
Sam said:
What a horrible waste of a player if thats the case. Especially at home to teams like Sunderland.

I thought the 'philosophy' was all about keeping the ball on the ground? :confused:
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Well, we were already fielding players who were more suited to a passing game today. And for 65 minutes, it wasn't working - our best chances were still coming when we got the ball from wide positions rather than from central areas. The personnel isn't the problem anyway. No matter who we start, our build-up is always so slow with no urgency. That's what needs to change.

Mata should have started for Falcao in all honesty. With Fellaini coming on for Mata if things weren't working out.
 
Solius said:
van Gaal has said a few times that he actually sees Fellaini as a striker.

Also lol at 'big Belgium'.
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I can understand him playing up top (like he did when Rooney went off) far more then behind a striker. He's useful there.
 
Yeah I was raging at him coming on at 10 ahead of Mata. Even more frustrating when Mata came on but had no proper striker to make best use of his talents.
Good performance otherwise though. Amazing how much better we can control a game when we play our actual midfielders in midfield.
 
It's better to sell him IMO. If you don't put Mata today as he's our best player unlocking tight defences, then I don't really see any point of him being here. Playing a fringe player like Fellaini in his role is criminal.
 
I didnt understand it last week, this time though it was understandable. Sunderland just hoofed the ball in the end and had freekicks, Fellaini is there for his presence and heading ability to help out in defence.
 
Reckon it's purely because LVG sees this as a physical league where big, tough players are required so as not to get bullied. Mata is deemed to be too meek and lightweight.
 
You get the impression that our manager has more in common with the likes of Sam Allardyce than say, Mourinho or Ancelotti
 
Fellaini is our plan B. We start the match playing on the ground, if that still doesn't work then in the 60-70th minute Fellaini comes on for an extra option via long balls.

Bringing on Mata wouldn't change much, Fellaini also offers protection against corners and lumps forward from the opposition. Since Sunderland were down to 10 they weren't going to play nice football but just lump it. Makes sense to me.
 
NL Max said:
Fellaini is our plan B. We start the match playing on the ground, if that still doesn't work then in the 60-70th minute Fellaini comes on for an extra option via long balls.

Bringing on Mata wouldn't change much, Fellaini also offers protection against corners and lumps forward from the opposition. Since Sunderland were down to 10 they weren't going to play nice football but just lump it. Makes sense to me.
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But we didn't change at all. We kept playing the exact same possession based football, only with Fellaini on the pitch instead of Falcao.

Thats whats so ridiculous.
 
Sam said:
But we didn't change at all. We kept playing the exact same possession based football, only with Fellaini on the pitch instead of Falcao.

Thats whats so ridiculous.
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Of course we keep playing possession based football, that's LvG's style. Fellaini just gives an extra option to lump it forward, it's not that we play all balls to him. He'd be useless after 1 match of this because opponents would just mark him. You play on the ground with the occasional ball to Fellaini to use him.

EDIT: We were 1-0 up aswell. Like LvG said, you can't keep possession with long balls. So there wasn't much need to play it long either. He was there for defending and because Falcao was woeful.
 
matt23 said:
You get the impression that our manager has more in common with the likes of Sam Allardyce than say, Mourinho or Ancelotti
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This.

It was the perfect game for Mata to play in, especially when Falcao came off. For someone (LVG) who claims to love intelligent players, he sure doesn't put brains above muscle in his player selections.
 
Its shocking really, it would make sense to do so if we're deploying route 1 hoofball tactics but today we didn't and that's what ticks me off about it. Even if he came on as a CM to play alongside Herrera with Blind sitting deep fair enough but he did neither, we didn't go Route 1 and he didn't play as a CM, he played as a #10 When we had F#@&Ing Mata on the bench.....mind blow!!! Its seems LVG is some what scared to allow us to play good football
 
Walters_19_MuFc said:
Doesn't make sense to me. I'd put Fellaini in defensive midfield.
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Definitely not, remember last season!!! He is too clasmy as a tackler and gives away so many unnecessary fouls that would prove too costly. We should take advantage of his physicality and height by playing him either as a box-to-box midfielder or a target man behind the main striker at least until we get quality players for those roles.
 
Fellaini made since both before and after the goal. Before the goal, LVG was clearly about to switch over to plan B due to Falcao being ineffective. After the goal, we always wanted to choke the game to death and Sunderland's main threat with ten men would come from Larsson's set pieces. In both scenarios Fellaini made sense for what we were going to need to get the three points.
 
He did well today imo.
 
Fellaini was actually okay today, and Mata has been far from perfect this season, but yeah, it's a bit daft. Mata's still got more technical ability in his hair than Fellaini has mustered throughout his career. I'd like us to try Mata playing in behind Rooney at some stage, and get him trying to dictate the game.
 
He didn't even play as a #10 today. He was one of two box-to-box midfielders with Herrera. Only towards the end of the game did he go into a more advanced position.
 
I think he's worried having mata, di maria and herrera at the same time will make us to soft. But i don't really see what felliani provides playing that advanced, mata should start and felliani should be the plan b.
 
It's the right call, Fellaini is not playing as a #10, he's playing as a target option for Rooney to use like a maypole and as a player to hold the ball up. Mata gets knocked over if someone farts near him and we can't afford that with Blind and Herrera as a midfield 2.
 
Sam said:
Please stop this madness. Please.
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The thing is it makes sense in certain situations. Fellaini offers a bit of a "get out of jail card" when our midfield is being pressed and is unable to move the ball forward. With Fellaini in the #10 you can just chip it up to him and bypass the pressure.

But today none of that was necessary. We had all of the possession and basically circulated it side to side 30/40 yards ahead of Krul. In that situation you don't need to bypass any pressure, you need a player who can find an opening through a compact defense. Mata should have been on far earlier in this game.
 
Bebe said:
The thing is it makes sense in certain situations. Fellaini offers a bit of a "get out of jail card" when our midfield is being pressed and is unable to move the ball forward. With Fellaini in the #10 you can just chip it up to him and bypass the pressure.

But today none of that was necessary. We had all of the possession and basically circulated it side to side 30/40 yards ahead of Krul. In that situation you don't need to bypass any pressure, you need a player who can find an opening through a compact defense. Mata should have been on far earlier in this game.
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I was saying that around the 60 minute mark. Newcastle were standing off, dropping deep, and the game was crying out for Mata. Thought it was baffling to leave the substitution until 80 something minutes.

Anyways, it's a bit depressing in terms of style, but otherwise I completely agree with your assessment of why LvG picks Fellaini, and why it makes sense sometimes.
 
Today was actually the midfield I've been wanting to see (Blind, Herrera, Fellaini) but it was the wrong way round, in my opinion. Instead of Fellaini in the more advanced midfield role, I would had him where Herrera played, with Herrera pushed further up. Yes, Fellaini's obviously played higher up for the crosses, but as I keep saying, him playing deeper does not mean he still can't get into the box. If he times his runs, as he did against Stoke, it can prove to be just as, if not, more effective, as he'll have a run on the defenders.

That said, I thought he was pretty good tonight, to be honest. Held it up well, neat on the ball, made some nice turns. I just think, if we're going to have the the bulk of possession, we need someone a more creative than Fellaini in the final third. Today was a game, as are most games, where we looked to boss the game. Therefore, in my opinion, it would have made a lot more sense if we played our creative midfielders higher up, whilst playing Fellaini deeper, where he'd be able to, both get into the box and use his aerial threat and use his physicality and steel to sniff out any counter attacks.
 
Devil may care said:
It's the right call, Fellaini is not playing as a #10, he's playing as a target option for Rooney to use like a maypole and as a player to hold the ball up. Mata gets knocked over if someone farts near him and we can't afford that with Blind and Herrera as a midfield 2.
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This is it, pretty much. He was quite good at holding up the ball in and around the box, and he got a couple of good chances as well, but his performance wasn't good enough as he made it easier for Newcastle to defend for much of the match.

The positions he took were baffling when we tried to play through the middle. Every time we entered Newcastle's final third, Fellaini will run towards Newcastle's defensive line too soon. As a result, we had no forward passing option through the middle (Herrera couldn't push forward at the same time as that would leave Blind isolated). Too often did Abeid intercept our passes forward as Fellaini was too high up the pitch (his offside in the first half, which was probably our first offside of the match, was really stupid and should never have happened).

On the ball, he was quite slow as well. He was too predicable on the ball with his sluggish turns and slow passes, and this made it easier for Newcastle to defend. With us lacking creativity through the middle, Fellaini needed to play the ball faster than he did today.

With the way he played on the ball, he should have been playing in central midfield with Herrera higher up the pitch. We weren't playing fast enough through the middle, and this made us over-reliant on the wide players to create chances for us.
 
Someone make it stop. Mata, Herrera, Januzaj...just play any of them there, just not Fellaini.
 
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