Yeah. Cause there's a Bruno thread for that. We don't have active Bergkamp threads, as far as I'm aware.
Player’s You Don’t Rate As Highly As Others
- Thread starter 432JuanMata
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So people should just go to the Bruno thread to say that they don’t think he’s as good as made out? Of course. There will be threads on most of the players mentioned in here. Perhaps everyone should post their replies to this topic in individual threads, that would be a great way to have this conversation.
Heh, I made this exact same thread about United greats a few years back.
My two were Van Nistelrooy and VDS... I got a pasting.
My two were Van Nistelrooy and VDS... I got a pasting.
The reason he didn’t have the longevity was he liked partying and fast food, he is rated so high as his ceiling is probably the best of all time. I always think what would of been if he had Ronaldos work ethic
The ones on our current team would be better in those threads, yeah, I think. I don't open threads like this for discussion about the current United squad. Maybe I'm alone in that.
All threads being the same is about as entertaining as counting sheep.
Rashford.
Brilliant off the pitch and he has very good spells of form during seasons but again so does Sterling so think those two are similar level.
Still hestitates a little bit too much infront of goal like yesterday when he timed his run well to get clear of Leeds defence but then the ball sort of got caught behind him so he had to check and eventually dragged the shot harmlessly wide.
Was a game a few weeks back when he was free in box with just the keeper to beat but instead took a couple more touches for some reason and chance was lost.
Brilliant off the pitch and he has very good spells of form during seasons but again so does Sterling so think those two are similar level.
Still hestitates a little bit too much infront of goal like yesterday when he timed his run well to get clear of Leeds defence but then the ball sort of got caught behind him so he had to check and eventually dragged the shot harmlessly wide.
Was a game a few weeks back when he was free in box with just the keeper to beat but instead took a couple more touches for some reason and chance was lost.
You’re reaching. It’s clear you’re being precious about Bruno being mentioned. To suggest anyone who doesn’t rate Bruno as highly as others should not mention him in a thread about footballers you don’t rate as highly as others is ridiculous.
Stop derailing the thread and give another name. Please make sure it isn't anyone I disagree with though. Thanks in advance.
The answer to this question is and will always be Gerrard.
Regarding currrent Man United players then I say.
Greenwood
Tuanzebe
Martial
Bailly.
Those that I rate more than others.
Mctominay
Lindelöf
Rashford
Jones
Greenwood
Tuanzebe
Martial
Bailly.
Those that I rate more than others.
Mctominay
Lindelöf
Rashford
Jones
Really Greenwood? Doesn't he have a borderline unprecedented scoring rate for a teenager in the PL?
He definitely falls short in the longevity department compared to most of the others who make the all-time lists. He was an extraordinary player though and at its core football is meant to be entertainment, and he was the ultimate entertainer. When so many footballers trend towards efficiency it was refreshing to see someone play the game in such a beautiful manner, and not only that but to become the undisputed best in the world while doing so. Football needs more players like him.
He is very good. Just I personally rate Rashford more and I feel many here rate Greenwood more.
I do not feel Greenwood is good enough as a world class 9 and not enough pace on the wing to be a true elite player, but we should keep him and hope he takes the next step. He is a great squad player minimum though.
I should not really put Jones in there, but I rated him before when many did not. Right now he is just useless, but I feel I rate his chances to comeback higher than others still. I think if he can comeback he is better than Tuanzebe and Bailly, but we should sell Jones first if we can.
I agree on both those choices, more so Van Der Saar I feel.
With Ruud, he was genuinely brilliant, but then the partisan went too far by trying to have some sort of ‘who is better, Henry or Van Nistelrooy?’ debate, which was never, for one minute, a genuine debate.
Interesting. From an outside perspective I'd disagree personally but don't think your opinion is unreasonable (and almost certainly is better informed).
Any players you have a particular emotional attachment to?
I feel Rashford gets lots of stick here so maybe that is why. I know many rate both Rashford and Greenwood.
If you ask every fans it might be more even outside red cafe. Thus I mainly speak about this forum.
My dad and brother though both do not rate Rashford very much and rate Greenwood higher.
Dele Alli. I thought he was particularly ineffectual for England when I paid more attention to him. In PL games I've seen, he rarely played as well as his reputation
Foden. Good in Pep's system, will probably look like pre west ham Lingard without it.
I'm not denying all of that, I'm just saying he didn't do enough to be anywhere near the top players of all-time, I think Neymar ranks comfortably over him as far as Brazilian legends, and most people will disagree because no one likes Neymar and everybody loves Dinho but they would be wrong, the numbers and the impact of the player in all competitions will show that. Henry is another player who gets snubbed in regards to Ronaldinho. I just think people romanticize too much the joga bonito, he was a joy to watch, but he's not an all-time player for me.
Yeah I tend to agree with this. Good player definitely, but I think players like him who do a lot of the basics right while playing in a very good team, often suddenly get overrated even though they're somewhat replaceable. That intangible quality is then put down to leadership.
Would it be very controversial to say that I rate Milner higher over his whole career?
Yeah, I think Alli is a good shout.
He was clearly a very promising young English player and performed well as a youngster at club level for MK Dons in league one and for a couple of years in the PL with Spurs.
But it was ridiculous that, for England, he was pretty much always allowed to play the privileged #10 position - despite not creating much for them and scoring just 3 goals in 37 internationals. At the same time pushing Wayne Rooney - England's all time scorer - into a wide position or even a deep CM role and away from the deep striker / #10 role behind Kane that he should've been playing instead of Alli.
Surely Romero deserves that tag over Henderson, a young prospect currently in his 2nd PL season?
Foden. Good in the City under Pep’s tutelage but put him in a team with lesser players and he’s just the next Jack Wilshire.
VVD decent defender but is so hyped up as Liverpool are shampoo without him. He was decent at best at Celtic and Southampton.
John Terry. Carvalho made him look good and was clearly the better of the two and by some distance.
Bruno. Hate to say it, but he’s nowhere as good as we all make out. Lucky we got him when he was in form and just carried his form on with us. Has been average over the last few months. When he’s marked out the game you hardly see him ala West Brom.
Halaand, the boy is just a big unit whos fast and strong, not a patch on Mbappe who's levels above him.
VVD decent defender but is so hyped up as Liverpool are shampoo without him. He was decent at best at Celtic and Southampton.
John Terry. Carvalho made him look good and was clearly the better of the two and by some distance.
Bruno. Hate to say it, but he’s nowhere as good as we all make out. Lucky we got him when he was in form and just carried his form on with us. Has been average over the last few months. When he’s marked out the game you hardly see him ala West Brom.
Halaand, the boy is just a big unit whos fast and strong, not a patch on Mbappe who's levels above him.
Varane.
He got away with a lot because he was young and learning and now that he’s senior and been without Ramos it’s clear he’s not as good as people make him out to be. Militao has been much better. He’s phenomenal on FIFA though which I’m sure is the biggest reason why people rate him so highly.
He got away with a lot because he was young and learning and now that he’s senior and been without Ramos it’s clear he’s not as good as people make him out to be. Militao has been much better. He’s phenomenal on FIFA though which I’m sure is the biggest reason why people rate him so highly.
I think it's understandable he's not an all-time player for you, especially with the glaring issues with longevity. I think people will vary on how much impetus they put on that factor, and I think Ronaldinho will be given leeway on that the way the likes of Best are viewed, as incomparable talents who might not have had two decades at the top like a Giggs but hit levels that are rarely seen.
Neymar is a world class player but going to the French league has hurt his standing, and I think coupled with the lack of international success means that Ronaldinho will be remembered as the greater player (rightfully imo). I put a lot less stock in numbers than most though and it's all subjective to be fair.
Henderson is an England international midfielder, in this particular conversation.
I was talking about Jordan Henderson
Ok that makes much more sense. I actually forgot about him.
It's the story of a thousand great, semi-known, and nameless footballers all around the world. It rings as hollow to me as how Morrisson (for example) was this incredible talent I still read about here. Who cares? They didn't accomplish enough to be put in that sort of company as R10 gets put in by too many people IMO. That's what makes the greats so special, there's a hundred different ways your talent can't prevent you from your career going sideways, but the great ones never lose sight of their focus. The ceiling or talent is so massively overrated by a lot of fans, and I'm guilty of it myself at times, but I feel less and less sympathetic to it when it comes to ranking great players, and a guy like CR7, who you mentioned with his work ethic, is a big part of that evolution in my thinking. Never saw the guy as that talented of a player, just a tricky winger with a big motor but not much football IQ, he could have easily been Quaresma (who was considered just as, if not more talented). It just shows that the ceiling or talent, whatever you want to call it, is not that important in the end, and I feel people's perception of it shouldn't be enough to elevate a player above players who actually validated their talent, even if perceived as lesser than a player like R10. Everybody is talented in some way, but the work is what matters. Especially a guy like CR7, much better looking, much more ways to be distracted, etc, never missed training, always first in and last out, just gotta give it up to him.
PS: Apologies for the soliloquy, I'm a bit buzzed.
Ronaldinho also played in the French league - also for PSG. And for Barcelona as well. So the only European team he played for that Neymar hasn't was AC Milan, and that was after he'd started his decline.
I think 'playing in the French league' gets used as a weapon to batter Neymar with just because many don't like him and are looking for something to undermine his impressive stats at both club, CL, and international level. It's not said about the likes of Thiago Silva, Verratti, Mbappe, Ronaldinho, Cavani, Ibrahimovic, etc, to question their motives or ability.
Lampard
Lampard, Gerrard, Terry, Shearer, Keane, Bruno
tbh, I think it's said about all of the players you've listed. There's a plethora of comments on this forum alone stating that Mbappe has to leave the French league if he wants to realise his potential. This forum (and football fans in general) underestimate the quality of the French league, but it's undeniable that Neymar currently playing in Ligue 1 impacts his standing in the game more so than if he was plying his trade in England or Spain.
He's probably the best player in the world but that's not really the common consensus, and a large part of that is due to where he plays his football.
Harry Kane
So arguably the greatest African player of all time was ‘not world class.’ Um, you’re entitled to your opinion I guess....
How is that ridiculous? Fair enough if you think it’s someone else, but ‘ridiculous’?!
I agree about both Sterling and Rashford.
