But Pep already lost 2 titles here in England. In his first season he was beaten by Conte's Chelsea (actually City finished 3rd wich is the worst finish for a Guardiola team ever) and Klopp's Liverpool beat him just 2 seasons ago. So he is not invinsible to losing a title but to beat him to it you have to be exceptional in every aspect. Liverpool were close to that but they faded away a bit in the recent times. I expected the CL win to boost Chelsea at a higher level so they can provide a proper challenge but it didnt happen..
PL Title Race
- Thread starter adexkola
- Start date
The first season Pep wasn't ready, he was only setting up his team. He only got 78 points.
Liverpool season they did amazing, 99 points is unreal. City only managed 81 but I think the factor that they knew they couldn't catch up to Liverpool play a big factor in them slowing down.
Like I said it's nearly impossible, meaning you have to get 90+ points to be in the run with them. Chelsea and Liverpool are great teams but it only takes a 2-3 week bad patch to be left out of the race.
United in 2008 barely won the league against a Chelsea team that sacked their manager midway through the season. We've had many more dominant seasons in the league than in 2008.
It's sad but true.
They do have the air of Ferguson Man. United these days.
Slow starts to season but start motoring and reeling off the wins from mid November and through the winter months.
Can have the cigars out now and fully concentrate on CL.
Slow starts to season but start motoring and reeling off the wins from mid November and through the winter months.
Can have the cigars out now and fully concentrate on CL.
The winning streak is at 11 games now. Chelsea at home next and then Southampton, Brentford and Norwich coming up. Then Spurs and Everton after that. They can get to 17 games. The 18th game is United at home.
I just find it surreal because it's a procession in reality. Once the bluster settles down and real squads start to feel the effects of a hard season, City go up a gear, and stay there, by virtue of having a completely interchangeable frontline, and some portion of the midfield being the same.
Other sides need to go on superhuman runs to keep up and once their starters fade, the 'race' is done and dusted yet again. It's formulaic and predictable. I can't see anything but one mega squad - who can do the same thing - standing up to City when all is said and done.
The league, as it currently stands, will never be the measure of them like the CL is.
My preferences as well.
Isn't that what Chelsea and United are there for? Chelsea last game they had a 300-400m starting XI with a further 250m on the bench and another 100m out on injuries, how much more do they need to create a mega squad? United have spent 100m or so less on defense than City since Pep has arrived, yet they need an entirely new backline still according to their fans, they further spent over 300m+ on midfield since Pep arrival and still have a non-existing midfield. The problem with Chelsea and United keeping on with City isn't money, depth or quality of players, it's everything else.
Chelsea in theory could do the same.
What's their best front 4 for instance? No-one knows, as they have Lukaku, Werner, Ziyech, Pulisic, Hudson Odoi, Mount, Havertz, and probably a couple more I'm forgetting.
But they don't.
There isn't many players from City in the last 5 years who would get into the Utd 2008 best 11.
The Utd GK & back 4 were all better than their City counterparts. Rooney, Tevez & Ronaldo are also nailed on starters. The only positions available then would be MF. I would put Fernandinho & KDB in. The last place could go to players from either club without any discernible drop off.
And yet City are breaking all of the records.. what does that say about Pep?
Sky invented football in 92
This is a bit nonsense. Jesus, Mahrez, Sterling, Foden, Grealish... With the exception of Foden, most fans don't really rate the quality of City's forwards. It's not an assemble that's beyond the likes of Chelsea, United and Liverpool.
Stop bringing up logical inconsistencies.
That he's spent 1 billion on an already stacked squad and has a squad depth that means they batter every team in the bottom half of the table while playing at three quarter pace?
You can't just go off points and goals, as those are always relative to the competitive level of the league at the time.
Some fans love to insist that the current is the best ever. We see it with Van Dyke the whole time too when other centre backs kept a similar level for years on end.
City will fall back into the pack when Pep leaves. It's pretty clear that he's the difference maker for them. Not that they won't be a top team still, they'll win titles, they'll be a great team, but they'll no longer set incredible standards no-one is able to keep pace with.
I think that's all irrelevant, the only thing that matters is the team, individuals don't matter.
The level of football played is very similar, I think they might have it.
Exactly!
Also: what does that say about us? About us in 2022, not 2008. We have so many expensive players but we can't compete with City.
The equivalent for any other manager would be gutting what's already at their club and re-imagining it perfectly in their own image, not merely working with a mish-mash of talent that's already there. Then, whenever they want, bolstering any area of the squad with an interchangeable player. If that means a £100m player sitting on the bench next to a few £50m ones, fine. There's a massive difference doing so with your own players over those you never fancied in the first place, or who you got lumped.
Nobody else has had that privilege. Nobody else can construct or deconstruct a squad as rapidly or simply try again if, say, a full-back doesn't work out throwing money at the problem again and again until it's just right like Pep did.
Of course, Chelsea and Manchester United spend a lot, but no manager at either club will ever get to gut and reset those squads with such indifference as Pep was, and is, afforded.
If you look at money spent as a whole, it'll never look as skewed as the reality actually is - overhauling a club in a few windows is where the difference is apparent. Pep having to do what he does at a different English club except Newcastle will not look so sleek and well polished as he would then have to work with players that he doesn't want, under limited budgets per window, like everyone else.
Lastly, Pep is not saddled with risk or consequence; a player doesn't work out for him, he can be thrown away and another brought in. You buy a costly flop at other clubs and you're on shakey grounds; the sanctioning of another player in the same ball park is unlikely for the remainder of your tenure, or at least not for another few windows.
The situations are not comparable.
I'd go with Tevez & Rooney over Aguero due to their higher workrates. Goals were not a problem for our front 3 as they got nearly 60 in the league that season.
The 2008 team wasn't coached by Ole. The 2008 team had superior players to the recent city teams & SAF at the helm.
That's not the same calibre of player from the outset and I'm not sure I'd say they seamlessly interchangeable. You take Mount out, and there isn't an interchangeable player there who does what he does.
If you look at that bunch intent on destabilisation, you make Werner play every game, take out Mount and you're facing a lesser proposition, imo.
Yes, but the madness only began with Pep. If he tried he would have got 90+ points in every season he's been here but the first one were he was adjusting. The ones he didn't get there were like last one when he didn't need it and the Klopp one were the target was 100 and it was unreal.
We have to accept that Pep is the best manager from this generation and paired with almost unlimited funds was always going to break the league.
Maybe Klopp with united funds could put up a fight but at this point is a one horse race sadly and all leagues will be city's to lose. At least until the Saudi's enter in full force... The Qataris should buy us and we can create the human rights premiership too.
Only Jesus you can say that with with a straight face. The rest are rated domestically and are interchangeable.
And of course it's beyond Liverpool; let's see what happens to them with the African Cup of Nations taking away their two best forwards. Chelsea are not going to purchase the best attackers from multiple English clubs like 3 from the 5 of what you listed were acquired. United couldn't do that either.
This also goes beyond forwards, which is where United plummet and the others would need serious bolstering to be the equivalent of City. It would also need to be done in the shortest possible time humanly possible to be a match to City.
And yet play amazing football that I believe would beat 2008. Players on paper mean nothing, Pep is making Klopp look nothing special at times. He's breaking our records in a more difficult league and making it look easier.
Why wouldn’t the team that spends most on wages and transfer fees be winning the league? If anything other than that scenario was happening 9/10 said manager would be under serious questioning.
That's exactly what Chelsea and United have done...Chelsea, Kepa didn't work ok we get Mendy, ok Costa, Bats, Morata, Werner and now Lukaku in there striker department in the past 6 years. Now United, Bailey and Lindelof don't work ok we get Maguire and Varane who are also now not working, midfield oh we get Pogba, Matic and Mikhi ok not working lets get Fred and Bruno, ok maybe we can bring in Donny too, ok we need better midfield. Attack? Lukaku, Sanchez, Ibra, Cavani, Ronaldo, Sancho in the last 5-6 years, this is all just in the time frame Pep has been at City for those clubs. Implying City/Pep only can do this is laughable.
Hence why I said United and Chelsea problem isn't financially, its how poor the clubs are run. City have been chasing Pep since 2010, they've set up this project for him and now are reaping the reward. United can spend 100's of million year out and year in, but as long as they keep bring in bang average managers they ain't getting anywhere, likewise Chelsea there problem more is lack of patient with manager.
The situation aren't comparable in the way the clubs are run, not financially.
I agree with you, but (another topic),
when people talk about Pep, "it's easy if you have 2x11 world class players... "
When talk about City individual players, " Not many City's would get into.... " or "Rashford is much better than Jesus... "
Players on paper mean nothing if you don't have a good coach. The 2008 team had better players than Pep's City teams. SAF is also a better coach than Pep. This all equates to the Utd of 2008 being the greatest PL team.
Pep is breaking records due to his spending & the poor quality of the League at the current time. The league in 2008 was alot stronger than at any time during Pep's City Tenure. Chelsea & Arsenal only lost 3 games. Liverpool lost 4 & Utd 5. There was only an 11 point margin seperating 1st to 4th. The teams ouside the top 4 in 2008 are much the same standard as their counterparts in the last 5 years.
Sorry, it's not even in the same ball park. Nobody else can gut swathes of their side in a window or spend ceaselessly and - importantly - consecutively, to fix problems and make a side in their specific image rather than that of multiple managers who have gone before or directors of football who see things differently or determine what will be addressed when and how in accordance with the budget for that window. None of that is applicable to Pep.
Players on paper never mean anything because it's a team sport, scored as a team, so only team performances matter.
I am not sure SAF is a better manager, in some ways yes, but at making the best single team, I am not sure. The only thing that matters is the football the teams play, and it looks like the current City play better than 2008 in the PL.
You're seventh.
Of course it is, but whatever I'm saying seem to be flying over your head here, so will just end it here.
Nothing you're saying is 'flying over my head', it's just not grounded in any reality vis-a-vis the rest of the league. Pep's doing exactly what should be done with the advantages he has, there's just no merit in it.
The qualities that differentiate SAF from Pep make him the better manager. He is the only ever manager to break the Old Firm domination in Scotland. He then came to England & stopped Liverpools dominance. He did all this whilst spending less than his rivals.
It's all very well saying SAF never had a 100pt season. You have to factor in that he never had the same financial backing of Pep & he was competing in a stronger league.
Style of play is completely immaterial. All that counts is winning. Pep's City teams wouldn't have been as successful in earlier times as the league was stronger & they wouldn't have been able to impose themselves as they do now.
Yes, he has the same advantages United and Chelsea have, but clearly they're struggling to take advantage of.
The spending is irrelevant in this discussion.
This is a higher level league, arguably the best it's been. He's producing better football, ignoring the price of it. It's a completely fair argument that SAF would do better with less, but Pepp made probably the best team ever, and arguably separately the best PL team ever.
It's less a wonder that Guardiola has been winning the league than that Klopp has been keeping up with him to such an extent on a fraction of his spending. And if we factor in the fact that Mancini had declared wages that were around half of what he was actually paid, then it's probable that Man City's spending is even greater than the already huge amounts that they are down for. For example, that football club that Guardiola's brother owns, that's largely paid for by Man City.
It absolutely, positively is not.
The playing field is not even or equal; Woodward talked about us being the DisneyLand that Pep actually resides in as far as the PL goes.
We see the truer reflection once the CL is factored in when all of a sudden the advantages that make City storm the league are non-existent and they look no better than anyone else challenging for the trophy.