Phil Jones to United | Transfer to Champions complete

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GlastonSpur said:
Come off it.

It just doesn't wash to try and say that Modric was just as much a gamble for the money involved as Jones.

I'll say again, Modric was a much-noted player at senior international level when he signed for Spurs. His reputation across Europe was rising and based on some spectacular performances for Croatia against much bigger teams. In contrast, the name of Phil Jones wouldn't even register outside of England were it not for the current transfer saga.

I fail to see what is so outrageous about my saying that 16.5m (or 20.5m - take your pick) for Jones is a pretty big gamble. It's what most neutrals think.

And no, if Spurs had paid that much for Jones I wouldn't be lauding it as "the best transfer of the Summer". Instead I'd be nervously withholding judgement, waiting to see how good he actually proved to be and wondering why we'd spent so much on a CB when our top priority needs lay elsewhere.
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You mean the two performances against England, right? I would say it's a huge risk signing a player on the basis of two games against an unorganised opposition like England.

Euro 2008 performances were AFTER you tied up a deal for him.

Of course you'd be lauding him as an excellent transfer, you do that with every single player Tottenham sign.

Are you actually trying to say that a CB isn't your priority for the Summer? I agree that you need five or six central midfielders far more, but how can you not fill the obvious lack of quality in defence with proper talent? Your defence is simply terrible!
 
So the confusion over the £16m or £16.5m figure seems to have been cleared up.

It appears that the release clause was £16m and we offered £16.5m.
 
I have a feeling we won't find out the truth behind this one for a while, if at all. If we have had our way with it, fergie and the club may be willing to stay quiet and allow Blackburn to claim to have gotten an extra few mil. out of us, to avoid any more embarrassment for their owners.
 
tintedsepia said:
Think this is the salient point:-

United land Jones for £16.5m (again) - Transfers, Football - The Independent

"United's refusal to offer more than their original figure for Jones is, in part, based on the outcome of the High Court case which followed Christian Ziege's move from Middlesbrough to Liverpool in August 2000.

Although Middlesbrough argued that Glasgow Rangers and Chelsea had both offered £7.5m for Ziege, Justice Astill said that the German had no market value as a player because Middlesbrough had agreed to allow him the £5.5m release clause. The clause "effectively removed [Middlesbrough] from the picture. [The club] was left with no choice; a choice which it would otherwise have had under the terms of the standard contract," the court found."

Although:-

"Blackburn's only recourse to compensation is based on United's knowledge of the £16m release clause – commercially confidential information which enabled them to bid at virtually the lowest price possible to trigger the sale of Jones. Rovers may negotiate a compromise with United, based on Jones' appearances and trophies United win with him, to avoid a drawn-out legal battle on this point. Middlesbrough pursued Liverpool through the courts on similar grounds, arguing that the buying club profited from confidential information to bid at Ziege's exact £5.5m release clause figure.

At the time, Middlesbrough alleged an illegal approach had been made to the player. The two sides settled out of court with the Premier League acting as a mediator.

Blackburn's case is complicated by the fact that it needed Venky's' football advisers to resolve the weekend's impasse by making the contractual situation clear to the Indians – namely, that the release clause had been inserted into Jones' contract when he agreed an extension to his terms in February."

Don't quite understand why Blackburn's case is complicated but sure United can get over this confidential information thing.

It is not illegal to be told confidential information. Sure they can argue:-

1. His agent told United once Liverpool had made a bid
2. Read it in the media
3. Share same/similar agents (don't know if it's true)
4. News spread once Liverpool/Spurs/Arsenal were involved.
5. Someone at BRFC told them.
6. any others? - write them hear and help our lawyers out...
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Exactly, but there wouldn't be a shit story if newspapers wrote something like this. Total shite all of it, always has been.
 
Telegraph also reporting the figure at 16.5M.

Also perhaps now some of the moaning posters will understand of why we didn't bid more for Ozil and Sahin, no matter how high the bid is, once a player's mind is set, you can't change it.
 
Modric was a gamble, even Wenger said that he is too lightweight for English Premier League. Ofcourse, he has been proved wrong but he was a gamble at that time.
 
Risks for different reasons Glaston. Modric was/is built like a fairy and whilst his talet was never in doubt, his ability to succeed in the physical PL was.
 
I know the Venky's personally.(not too closely though).

The thing is that its the sister who runs the company and is a really intelligent lady but I am not sure how much she knows about football if any.

The others are really known be not very intelligent locally here and are more into show of wealth and such stuff. I am sure its they who will be running the club.
 
Sarni said:
.... Of course you'd be lauding him as an excellent transfer, you do that with every single player Tottenham sign.

Are you actually trying to say that a CB isn't your priority for the Summer? I agree that you need five or six central midfielders far more, but how can you not fill the obvious lack of quality in defence with proper talent? Your defence is simply terrible!
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Actually I don't. For example, I expressed strong reservations about us signing Bentley for the mony involved and I didn't want Spurs to re-sign Keane.

And yes, signing a CB is not the priority for Spurs - signing a new striker (or two) is the top priority. This is because there were a fair few games last season in which we battered the opposition defence, dominated the game but failed to find the back of the net .... and so ending up drawing (or even losing) games that we very much should have won. The opening game of the season (0 - 0 at home to Man. City) set the pattern here.

The money paid for Jones seems to a be sensitive subject on here .... judging by the flurry of defensive-aggressive posts that have come in response to the rather mild observation that his signing is a fairly big gamble.
 
GlastonSpur said:
Actually I don't. For example, I expressed strong reservations about us signing Bentley for the mony involved and I didn't want Spurs to re-sign Keane.

And yes, signing a CB is not the priority for Spurs - signing a new striker (or two) is the top priority. This is because there were a fair few games last season in which we battered the opposition defence, dominated the game but failed to find the back of the net .... and so ending up drawing (or even losing) games that we very much should have won. The opening game of the season (0 - 0 at home to Man. City) set the pattern here.

The money paid for Jones seems to a be sensitive subject on here .... judging by the flurry of defensive-aggressive posts that have come in response to the rather mild observation that his signing is a fairly big gamble.
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You tried to argue that Bentley was a better deal than Nani and Hargreaves. I'm sure there was no bias in that.

Here's the post link if you want
https://www.redcafe.net/f9/arshavin-milito-211616/index5.html#post4903915
 
KM said:
Modric was a gamble, even Wenger said that he is too lightweight for English Premier League. Ofcourse, he has been proved wrong but he was a gamble at that time.
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I've not said that Modric wasn't a gamble. I've merely said that he was less of a gamble than Jones is for the money involved.

Modric had already demonstrated his abilities superbly well on the senior international stage and was a rising star across Europe. Those who deny this need to think back and correct their faulty memories .... because when Spurs signed him it was widely considered to be a major coup.

Yes, it still remained to be seen if he could adapt to -and cope with - the Prem. But the Europe-wide recognition of his talent was there in a way that simply isn't the case with Jones. That's not the fault of Jones - he's only 19 after all, whilst Modric was 22 when he came to Spurs.
 
KM said:
Telegraph also reporting the figure at 16.5M.

Also perhaps now some of the moaning posters will understand of why we didn't bid more for Ozil and Sahin, no matter how high the bid is, once a player's mind is set, you can't change it.
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What rubbish. Did we even put in a bid for sahin? As to not being able to change a players mind when its set - well we did with berba.
 
Jones is a big gamble. If he was not English how much you think we would have paid for him?
 
There was a story in the LEP mentioning the release clause a day before we made the bid and there were stories everywhere last monday about Jones moving on.

It was clear his agent/the club/someone was inviting offers for the player.

I dont think Blackburn can have a legitimate case if they decide to take the matter further.
 
Commadus said:
kinell berba was set to sign for City until saf convinced him otherwise. As to sahin did we ever make an official bid?
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Berbatov's no mercenary, he never had any interest in signing for City, even though they offered him a much higher wage. Perhaps you should refrain from insulting our players and rewriting history to make a tedious point.
 
Commadus said:
why isn't that what happened we nicking him from City.
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No, he had already decided to move to us, City tried to nick him at the last minute.

So you've just added more weight to the point that once a players mind is set, it's pretty much set.

Berbatov moved to Manchester United on 1 September 2008, costing the club £30.75 million and signing a four-year contract.[57][58] Tottenham had also accepted a bid from Manchester City, but Berbatov claimed after signing for United that he "would not even have thought about Manchester City".[59] Arsenal manager Arsène Wenger, meanwhile, accused Tottenham of having used the complaint to the Premier League to negotiate a higher price for Berbatov from Manchester United
 
Commadus said:
What rubbish. Did we even put in a bid for sahin? As to not being able to change a players mind when its set - well we did with berba.
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Thanks for proving my point even further by bringing in the Berbatov example.
 
How tall is phil Jones?

Wikipedia says 5ft 11

He's played more times in the EPL than Smalling 29 vs 34.
 
He looks taller than that. He looks a shade over 6foot to me.
 
Commadus said:
How tall is phil Jones?

Wikipedia says 5ft 11

He's played more times in the EPL than Smalling 29 vs 34.
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looking at him yesterday I'd say he's well over 5.11. More 6.2.

Also think he would have played more had it not been for an injury
 
Commadus said:
BBC Sport - Football - Blackburn defender Phil Jones faces lengthy absence

Now this does concern me. Looking at the rehab time did they repair ir or just remove it - hard to say.

If they removed it (then how much) he will get further problems in his knee.
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Why? He's fully recovered and gone on to have a strong end to Blackburn's season and is now playing in the U-21's. If he'd have not played since December, that'd be a concern but he has, has done well, and has shown no reaction or decline in ability since.
 
Man United and Rovers to compromise over Jones deal
Published 23:05 12/06/11 By Alan Nixon

(19) Recommend (5)

Blackburn and Manchester United are ready to agree a compromise £20million fee to end their bitter dispute over Phil Jones.

United supremo David Gill is trying to sort out a package of installments that will let the warring clubs settle their differences and allow both to claim a victory.

Rovers refused to sanction the £16m sale of Jones, currently in Denmark with England’s Under-21s, despite the centre-half agreeing terms and passing a medical at United.

The club’s Indian owners dug in their heels over compensation as Gill tried to find a new figure that would avoid a dispute.

Both clubs have been in contact with the Premier League who are on standby to referee the dispute. However there were more encouraging signs about an agreement last night.

Rovers are unhappy that United – and other clubs – were aware of a ‘price clause’ in Jones’s contract. The Rovers regime were willing to stand firm and make Jones stay with them and see out the rest of his contract, which still has four years to run.

United believe they have done nothing wrong but could offer more money to speed up the transfer.



Read more: Manchester United transfer news: Phil Jones of Blackburn to now cost £20million as clubs set to reach compromise - News - MirrorFootball.co.uk
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WireRed said:
Why? He's fully recovered and gone on to have a strong end to Blackburn's season and is now playing in the U-21's. If he'd have not played since December, that'd be a concern but he has, has done well, and has shown no reaction or decline in ability since.
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Ok not to sound pessimistic but here goes.

The common concensus used to be to remove cartilage once damaged but that just brought the onset of arthritis.

After having numerous knee injuries and talking to medics and friends who have have had caritlage problems and looking at the research coming out of the NFL the conculsions were broadly the following.

Ligament injuries resulted in players losing explosive strength and the ability to run powerfully. Cartilage injuries resulted in shortening a players career.
 
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