Phil Jones to United | Transfer to Champions complete

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alastair said:
I did not think he was shit for two seasons. He was hugely talented, with a little bit of a lacking end product that was bound to come with time. Did anyone think he was shit?



Indeed. But I just thought with Ronaldo that the chances of him failing were low given his exceptional ability. Once he settled into the country, there was no doubt at all.
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It was Ronaldo's exceptional mentality that took him to the top. He was certainly never a sure thing.

And no, he wasn't shit, but he was extremely inconsistent and often quite infuriating. Much like Nani, and you'll find plenty who had given up on him as well. Which is why it's far, far too soon to write off Anderson, as well.
 
alastair said:
Indeed. But I just thought with Ronaldo that the chances of him failing were low given his exceptional ability. Once he settled into the country, there was no doubt at all.
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Hindsight is a beautiful thing, isn't it. It wasn't those skills that he had as an 18 year old that made him the best player in the world. More like the physical development that nobody could have foreseen when we bought the skinny winger from Sporting.
 
alastair said:
I did not think he was shit for two seasons. He was hugely talented, with a little bit of a lacking end product that was bound to come with time. Did anyone think he was shit?



Indeed. But I just thought with Ronaldo that the chances of him failing were low given his exceptional ability. Once he settled into the country, there was no doubt at all.
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I do believe you are demonstrating your Masters Degree in hindsight and generally talking piss.

A gamble, is £16million for Robbie Keane. :lol:
 
Someone needs to find Gladstone's posts Re: Bale when Spurs beat United to his signature.
 
GlastonSpur said:
Yet still no takers on my offer of a bet ... ah well.
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The odds are in your favour and certainly not worthy of a punt.


But for some bizarre reason you believe yourself to be more righteous every time you offer and nobody takes you up on this ridiculous challenge. :rolleyes:


I think Sneijder would be a cheaper and a better option, pity his wages are astronomical.
 
GlastonSpur said:
You've heard this as well? OMG!

What's more I'm also hearing:

Fabregas to Man. Utd.
Sandro to Arsenal (to be replaced by Poulsen)
Bale to Man. City (to be replaced by N'Zogbia)
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Can't blame them wanting to play in Champions League.
 
Sultan said:
What's the bet?
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Originally, that Modric won't be signing for Man. Utd this summer.

But I'm happy to extend it to a bet that Modric will be playing for Spurs this coming season (i.e won't be signing for any club this summer).
 
alastair said:
Right, so now I'm getting stick for not claiming a 20 year old was shit. Brilliant.
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If you genuinely thought that then fair enough. So did a lot of United fans, but some of our own fans disagreed alongwith the media and (most) opposition fans.
 
Manchester United to sign Phil Jones | Mail Online

Phil Jones will finally move to Manchester United after the Barclays Premier League champions refused to budge on their £16.5million offer for the Blackburn defender.

Following a meeting with manager Steve Kean in India, Rovers owners Venky’s admitted defeat in their attempts to force United to pay more.

There were suggestions the deal could be in jeopardy or that United might at least agree to pay various add-ons that could push the eventual figure past £20m.

But they are sticking to the £16.5m release clause in the 19-year-old’s contract, safe in the knowledge that Blackburn are powerless to stop him leaving.

Venky’s had attempted to block the deal, claiming they would not be bullied into accepting United’s bid for a player they value at £25m when there were other offers from Arsenal, Liverpool and Tottenham.

However, they were forced to accept that the clause — inserted into Jones’s contract in February — had been ratified by their own executives and could not be challenged.

The situation was further complicated by Liverpool lodging a new £22m bid over the weekend, but Jones’s desire to join United meant his move to Old Trafford was never in doubt.

In a further twist, Venky’s are suspicious that United knew the exact figure of the release clause, and considered calling in the Premier League to investigate if an illegal approach had been made.

There are similarities with Christian Ziege’s departure from Middlesbrough in 2000, when Liverpool signed the Germany full back for the £5.5m release clause in his contract even though Chelsea and Rangers were offering £8m.
 
GlastonSpur said:
Originally, that Modric won't be signing for Man. Utd this summer.

But I'm happy to extend it to a bet that Modric will be playing for Spurs this coming season (i.e won't be signing for any club this summer).
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It's against my religion otherwise I'd go with the bet. :D
 
Sultan said:
Manchester United to sign Phil Jones | Mail Online

Phil Jones will finally move to Manchester United after the Barclays Premier League champions refused to budge on their £16.5million offer for the Blackburn defender.

Following a meeting with manager Steve Kean in India, Rovers owners Venky’s admitted defeat in their attempts to force United to pay more.

There were suggestions the deal could be in jeopardy or that United might at least agree to pay various add-ons that could push the eventual figure past £20m.

But they are sticking to the £16.5m release clause in the 19-year-old’s contract, safe in the knowledge that Blackburn are powerless to stop him leaving.

Venky’s had attempted to block the deal, claiming they would not be bullied into accepting United’s bid for a player they value at £25m when there were other offers from Arsenal, Liverpool and Tottenham.

However, they were forced to accept that the clause — inserted into Jones’s contract in February — had been ratified by their own executives and could not be challenged.

The situation was further complicated by Liverpool lodging a new £22m bid over the weekend, but Jones’s desire to join United meant his move to Old Trafford was never in doubt.

In a further twist, Venky’s are suspicious that United knew the exact figure of the release clause, and considered calling in the Premier League to investigate if an illegal approach had been made.

There are similarities with Christian Ziege’s departure from Middlesbrough in 2000, when Liverpool signed the Germany full back for the £5.5m release clause in his contract even though Chelsea and Rangers were offering £8m.
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I bet you fingers are twitching to move this thread or create a new one? :D
 
An agreement is always reached before a club allows a medical. All these stories about United willing to pay more is just speculation.
 
GlastonSpur said:
First, it's not the exact same amount - Jones is costing 4m more.

Second, Modric was 22, not 19, when he signed for Spurs and was a lot more proven than Jones is.

Third, Modric was an established star player for the Croatian senior team .... a team that had recently run rings around England and had done well at the subseqeunt Euro finals ... with Modric pulling most of the strings in both cases.

Jones has not even been capped yet at senior international level .... hell, he's only played 5 or 6 times at U-21 level.
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He isn't though, he is costing half a million less with some sources reporting possible add-ons of £4m or £4.5m which haven't really been confirmed (while £16m clause has).

It's a bit different playing for Croatia than it is for England, Croatians don't really have many established players in the country, the fact that some of their top talents even go to Poland (like Vrdoljak who was a captain of Dinamo Zagreb when Modric was still at the club) speaks volumes about the quality of their league.

Going by your logic you made a huge gamble when you paid £8m for Bale when at similar time we bought a full international who was far more proven in Manucho for mere £1m.

Truth is, if he were making a switch to Tottenham you'd be lauding it as the best transfer of the Summer, and rightly so. At very least his arrival could sort out your defence that leaked goals like crazy last season. You need someone like him and if you are going to get someone of that quality this Summer, he will likely cost £15m+ as well.

Not to mention that Kaboul cost you a total of £16m in fees.
 
I'd love to have seen the look on Wenger's face when he was told of Jones's trip to the South of France and that he was now signing for us instead.
 
The Harry Redknapp Managerial Flowchart

Harry%2BRedknapp%2B1.jpg


How many did Harry use with Jones?
 
Sarni said:
He isn't though, he is costing half a million less with some sources reporting possible add-ons of £4m or £4.5m which haven't really been confirmed (while £16m clause has).

It's a bit different playing for Croatia than it is for England, Croatians don't really have many established players in the country, the fact that some of their top talents even go to Poland (like Vrdoljak who was a captain of Dinamo Zagreb when Modric was still at the club) speaks volumes about the quality of their league.

Going by your logic you made a huge gamble when you paid £8m for Bale when at similar time we bought a full international who was far more proven in Manucho for mere £1m.

Truth is, if he were making a switch to Tottenham you'd be lauding it as the best transfer of the Summer, and rightly so. At very least his arrival could sort out your defence that leaked goals like crazy last season. You need someone like him and if you are going to get someone of that quality this Summer, he will likely cost £15m+ as well.
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Come off it.

It just doesn't wash to try and say that Modric was just as much a gamble for the money involved as Jones.

I'll say again, Modric was a much-noted player at senior international level when he signed for Spurs. His reputation across Europe was rising and based on some spectacular performances for Croatia against much bigger teams. In contrast, the name of Phil Jones wouldn't even register outside of England were it not for the current transfer saga.

I fail to see what is so outrageous about my saying that 16.5m (or 20.5m - take your pick) for Jones is a pretty big gamble. It's what most neutrals think.

And no, if Spurs had paid that much for Jones I wouldn't be lauding it as "the best transfer of the Summer". Instead I'd be nervously withholding judgement, waiting to see how good he actually proved to be and wondering why we'd spent so much on a CB when our top priority needs lay elsewhere.
 
GlastonSpur said:
Come off it.

It just doesn't wash to try and say that Modric was just as much a gamble for the money involved as Jones.

I'll say again, Modric was a much-noted player at senior international level when he signed for Spurs. His reputation across Europe was rising and based on some spectacular performances for Croatia against much bigger teams. In contrast, the name of Phil Jones wouldn't even register outside of England were it not for the current transfer saga.

I fail to see what is so outrageous about my saying that 16.5m (or 20.5m - take your pick) for Jones is a pretty big gamble. It's what most neutrals think.

And no, if Spurs had paid that much for Jones I wouldn't be lauding it as "the best transfer of the Summer". Instead I'd be nervously withholding judgement, waiting to see how good he actually proved to be and wondering why we'd spent so much on a CB when our top priority needs lay elsewhere.
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Jones is a gamble, no doubt. But it's quite obvious that the transfer of Modric, at the time, was a far bigger gamble.

Yeah, Modric's fame was rising but he was essentially a lightweight playmaker playing in a poor league. How many international stars came to England and failed? I don't even have to look far: look at our very own Verón, he was a star of the Argentina (not Crotia, Argentina) team and of Serie A yet failed here. Or I could say Kléberson who actually started the 2002 World Cup final.

On the other hand, name one English player for whom Fergie paid big money and it failed to pay off. You can name only one, Owen Hargreaves and that was only because of injuries. English players don't have to settle in England, don't have to get used to the pace and ferocity of the Premier League. It's still a gamble, yes, for a 19-year-old but nothing to the gamble that Spurs took on Modric. It paid off but it was a huge gamble.
 
GlastonSpur said:
Come off it.

It just doesn't wash to try and say that Modric was just as much a gamble for the money involved as Jones.

I'll say again, Modric was a much-noted player at senior international level when he signed for Spurs. His reputation across Europe was rising and based on some spectacular performances for Croatia against much bigger teams. In contrast, the name of Phil Jones wouldn't even register outside of England were it not for the current transfer saga.

I fail to see what is so outrageous about my saying that 16.5m (or 20.5m - take your pick) for Jones is a pretty big gamble. It's what most neutrals think.

And no, if Spurs had paid that much for Jones I wouldn't be lauding it as "the best transfer of the Summer". Instead I'd be nervously withholding judgement, waiting to see how good he actually proved to be and wondering why we'd spent so much on a CB when our top priority needs lay elsewhere.
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United have a better history scouting talent then spurs which is why we're confident.
 
United land Jones for £16.5m (again)

By Ian Herbert, Northern Football Correspondent
Monday, 13 June 2011

Kenny Dalglish knew Phil Jones' heart was set on Old Trafford, so there may have been Anfield mischief

Manchester United have refused to allow Blackburn Rovers to drive up the price for centre-half Phil Jones and, despite a late attempt by Liverpool to capitalise on the chaos surrounding the player's transfer, confirmation of the £16.5m deal is expected imminently.

Liverpool tabled a £22m counter-bid for Jones on Saturday, after it emerged that Rovers' Indian owners, Venky's, were insisting that the £16m get-out clause written into the player's contract was merely a starting figure for negotiations. The Liverpool manager, Kenny Dalglish, knew Jones' heart was set on Old Trafford and there appears to have been an element of mischief in Anfield's attempts to gazump United and thus potentially drive up the price.

The Indians were advised that the get-out clause allows Jones to move to any club which offers the stipulated sum and the original £16.5m sale of Jones was actually concluded on Saturday.

United's refusal to offer more than their original figure for Jones is, in part, based on the outcome of the High Court case which followed Christian Ziege's move from Middlesbrough to Liverpool in August 2000.

Although Middlesbrough argued that Glasgow Rangers and Chelsea had both offered £7.5m for Ziege, Justice Astill said that the German had no market value as a player because Middlesbrough had agreed to allow him the £5.5m release clause. The clause "effectively removed [Middlesbrough] from the picture. [The club] was left with no choice; a choice which it would otherwise have had under the terms of the standard contract," the court found.

Blackburn's only recourse to compensation is based on United's knowledge of the £16m release clause – commercially confidential information which enabled them to bid at virtually the lowest price possible to trigger the sale of Jones. Rovers may negotiate a compromise with United, based on Jones' appearances and trophies United win with him, to avoid a drawn-out legal battle on this point. Middlesbrough pursued Liverpool through the courts on similar grounds, arguing that the buying club profited from confidential information to bid at Ziege's exact £5.5m release clause figure.

At the time, Middlesbrough alleged an illegal approach had been made to the player. The two sides settled out of court with the Premier League acting as a mediator.

Blackburn's case is complicated by the fact that it needed Venky's' football advisers to resolve the weekend's impasse by making the contractual situation clear to the Indians – namely, that the release clause had been inserted into Jones' contract when he agreed an extension to his terms in February.
 
I like Kenny games. Bring it on grandpa. I understand no one fecks with Kenny, but with all due respect, the new Manchester United will do that.
 
Venkys come out smelling of shit on this one.

They insert a buy out clause in Jones contract in February. The clause is exercised once United bid the activation fee.

Venkys turn round and think this is just an initial offer as they have 3 more offers and want to start a bidding war.

I hope Blackburn go down and take these idiots with them.
 
GlastonSpur said:
Come off it.

It just doesn't wash to try and say that Modric was just as much a gamble for the money involved as Jones.

I'll say again, Modric was a much-noted player at senior international level when he signed for Spurs. His reputation across Europe was rising and based on some spectacular performances for Croatia against much bigger teams. In contrast, the name of Phil Jones wouldn't even register outside of England were it not for the current transfer saga.

I fail to see what is so outrageous about my saying that 16.5m (or 20.5m - take your pick) for Jones is a pretty big gamble. It's what most neutrals think.

And no, if Spurs had paid that much for Jones I wouldn't be lauding it as "the best transfer of the Summer". Instead I'd be nervously withholding judgement, waiting to see how good he actually proved to be and wondering why we'd spent so much on a CB when our top priority needs lay elsewhere.
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Didn't ye buy Modric before the European championships? if so what spectacular performances did he have against big teams other than England?

Even still , Jones has some very notable performances in his locker as well. As Big Sam said recently he was man of the match against Chelsea on his debut, and against United in the penultimate game of the season he was outstanding as well. So going by games against top opposition I fail to see how that proved Modric would be able to play in the Prem (despite those top performances coming outside the Premiership) while Jones is considered a massive gamble (despite his performances coming against the top teams in the Premiership).
 
Dumpstar said:
But Pogue, you have worries in central midfield which I'm sure you admit you have to address. If by what Liverpool are doing means you have less money to focus on central midfield then isn't it worth doing? Worse case scenario, we end up with Jones for 22 million.

And from the impression I'm getting he is a top, top player. No doubting that.
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This doesn't make sense.

We are interested in Jones and think we can get him for 16m. Liverpool hope to push that up to 22m. They think the extra 6m will stop us paying 20/30+ for a decent central midfielder. If we pull out of the Jones deal, Liverpool get him for 22m, not bad because he is a top,top player.

How come Liverpool paying 6m extra Jones is good business but us paying 6m more is not?

More to the point, why are Liverpool trying to compete directly with us? Shouldn't they be concentrating on City, Arsenal and Spurs for the other two CL spots?
 
why would Blackburn put a get out clause in the first place ? It is now obvious that 16 million is the most they might get out of this deal.
 
Think this is the salient point:-

United land Jones for £16.5m (again) - Transfers, Football - The Independent

"United's refusal to offer more than their original figure for Jones is, in part, based on the outcome of the High Court case which followed Christian Ziege's move from Middlesbrough to Liverpool in August 2000.

Although Middlesbrough argued that Glasgow Rangers and Chelsea had both offered £7.5m for Ziege, Justice Astill said that the German had no market value as a player because Middlesbrough had agreed to allow him the £5.5m release clause. The clause "effectively removed [Middlesbrough] from the picture. [The club] was left with no choice; a choice which it would otherwise have had under the terms of the standard contract," the court found."

Although:-

"Blackburn's only recourse to compensation is based on United's knowledge of the £16m release clause – commercially confidential information which enabled them to bid at virtually the lowest price possible to trigger the sale of Jones. Rovers may negotiate a compromise with United, based on Jones' appearances and trophies United win with him, to avoid a drawn-out legal battle on this point. Middlesbrough pursued Liverpool through the courts on similar grounds, arguing that the buying club profited from confidential information to bid at Ziege's exact £5.5m release clause figure.

At the time, Middlesbrough alleged an illegal approach had been made to the player. The two sides settled out of court with the Premier League acting as a mediator.

Blackburn's case is complicated by the fact that it needed Venky's' football advisers to resolve the weekend's impasse by making the contractual situation clear to the Indians – namely, that the release clause had been inserted into Jones' contract when he agreed an extension to his terms in February."

Don't quite understand why Blackburn's case is complicated but sure United can get over this confidential information thing.

It is not illegal to be told confidential information. Sure they can argue:-

1. His agent told United once Liverpool had made a bid
2. Read it in the media
3. Share same/similar agents (don't know if it's true)
4. News spread once Liverpool/Spurs/Arsenal were involved.
5. Someone at BRFC told them.
6. any others? - write them hear and help our lawyers out...
 
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