Peterson, Harris, etc....

It's so weird the way seemingly smart people whose politics are to the right, end up going all in on the really whacky shit associated with being right wing; to the extent that they end up parroting obvious bollox about climate change or gun control, or Trump being a good president.

Sam Harris is someone whose views are quite right wing when it comes to borders and policing but - to his credit - has no time for climate change denial or anyone who thinks Trump is anything other than a buffoon. He did write a silly blog on gun control, mind you. The left has a (to an extent, deserved) reputation for getting far too wound up about unimportant stuff but it also seems to have a monopoly on common sense.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
It's so weird the way seemingly smart people whose politics are to the right, end up going all in on the really whacky shit associated with being right wing; to the extent that they end up parroting obvious bollox about climate change or gun control, or Trump being a good president.

Sam Harris is someone whose views are quite right wing when it comes to borders and policing but - to his credit - has no time for climate change denial or anyone who thinks Trump is anything other than a buffoon. He did write a silly blog on gun control, mind you. The left has a (to an extent, deserved) reputation for getting far too wound up about unimportant stuff but it also seems to have a monopoly on common sense.
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Harris seems to evaluate individual ideas on their own merits which puts him above the usual left right fray imo. To people that fixate on left v right, he will have positions that seem all over the map which is a good sign that someone isn't dogmatically afixed to one side or the other, but instead asses issues on the merits.
 
Raoul said:
Harris seems to evaluate individual ideas on their own merits which puts up above the usual left right fray imo. To people that fixate on left v right, he will have positions that seem all over the map which is a good sign that someone isn't dogmatically afixed to one side or the other, but instead asses issues on the merits.
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Yeah, I’ve got to the point of more or less ignoring people whose opinions on issues are 100% predictable according to their politics. Sam Harris himself made a similar point on one of his podcasts. It’s just not possible for one ideology to be right about everything so anyone who adheres slavishly to the party line is obviously not thinking things through.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Hehe. On a serious note, whatever your thoughts about Quilliam, this is good news for the reputation of the SPLC. Including Maajid on that extremist list made them look very silly indeed.
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Yes indeed. They have been on a downward spiral where people gradually stopped using them as a viable source to discuss extremism. This sort of thing will help them move back into the realm of sanity.
 
Raoul said:
He's great fun to listen to, especially his call in radio shows.
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Aye, on a personal note I find his discussions on Islam less interesting than hearing his liberal views on everyday issues, I always find myself nodding along saying.. Yeah? I agree with that. Good guy, speaks a lot of sense and really enjoy listening to him.
 
Anybody torture themselves watching/listening to Rubin on JRE?

Sorry but I have to say at this point if you don’t think Rubin is both a drooling moron and clearly a right-wing hack (pretending otherwise) you’re just being dishonest. One thing that makes me laugh over and over again is the fact (forgetting he was for Bernie before) he thinks anything the Dems are doing is hard left, when it’s clear they are centrist at best when you compare them to any other country.


Worth watching that clip just to see the easy-going Rogan’s reaction to Rubin’s suggestion Candace Owens should run for Senate.
Fcuking nutcase.
 
Minimalist said:
Anybody torture themselves watching/listening to Rubin on JRE?

Sorry but I have to say at this point if you don’t think Rubin is both a drooling moron and clearly a right-wing hack (pretending otherwise) you’re just being dishonest. One thing that makes me laugh over and over again is the fact (forgetting he was for Bernie before) he thinks anything the Dems are doing is hard left, when it’s clear they are centrist at best when you compare them to any other country.


Worth watching that clip just to see the easy-going Rogan’s reaction to Rubin’s suggestion Candace Owens should run for Senate.
Fcuking nutcase.
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Cringeworthy stuff from Rubin. He strikes me as a bit of an empty vessel who in the absence of his own ideas, winds up far too easily led by the guests he has on his show. Then he goes on shows like Rogan's and embarrasses himself with his hype merchant ideas like the one about Owens. The likes of Harris, Peterson et al seem to be using him and his show to amplify their own messages while treating him like a useful idiot.
 
I just realized that Rubin and Rogan are not the same person. I was getting confused about the discussion.
 
Rubin is terrible. Not sure if he believes the shit that he says or if he just knows what his audience wants to hear. Probably both. Awful guy.

I recently realized that Jordan Peterson echos Carl Jung's ideas almost word for word. Most of his soundbites make sense in this framework.
 
PedroMendez said:
Rubin is terrible. Not sure if he believes the shit that he says or if he just knows what his audience wants to hear. Probably both. Awful guy.

I recently realized that Jordan Peterson echos Carl Jung's ideas almost word for word. Most of his soundbites make sense in this framework.
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He's pretty up front about that. Always banging on about Jungian archetypes.
 
Raoul said:
Peterson and Harris have lined up a series of LIVE debates soon. Should be interesting.
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A friend of mine (the guy I’m trying to wean off right wing online content) is going to the Dublin event. Tickets are outrageously expensive.

On a side note, his latest podcast is all about UBI. Anyone who listens to it will instantly realise his politics are a very long way away from the far right.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
He's pretty up front about that. Always banging on about Jungian archetypes.
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Yes, but I haven't read anything from Jung until a few days ago, so I only knew the few soundbites of peterson, which often made little sense.
My point is twofold: it seems like Peterson merely repeats what Jung said decades ago. Do any of his ideas differ from Jung?
While many of Jung's views are controversial, they are not trivial. My view of Peterson is changing from "overselling simple ideas" to "shitty explainer of interesting + questionable views".
Jung isn't mainstream and there are probably good reasons for that. Yet some of his views are still worth discussing. I think the complete debate should run a different course. Peterson should put his views in the proper context of a Jungian framework and explain what this means. He can hardly expect that people know that. People who disagree with him should explain where Jung went of the rails.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
On a side note, his latest podcast is all about UBI. Anyone who listens to it will instantly realise his politics are a very long way away from the far right
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Yeah, none of Rogan, Peterson and Harris seem to be part of the far right. They would be moderate or central right, if anything. I could be mistaken.
 
Fridge chutney said:
Yeah, none of Rogan, Peterson and Harris seem to be part of the far right. They would be moderate or central right, if anything. I could be mistaken.
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Rogan is basically a comedian so I don't view him in the same category as Harris or Peterson. The latter two are neither left nor right since they tend to evaluate ideas on the merits instead of dogmatically follow a decipherable political philosophy.
 
Raoul said:
Rogan is basically a comedian so I don't view him in the same category as Harris or Peterson. The latter two are neither left nor right since they tend to evaluate ideas on the merits instead of dogmatically follow a decipherable political philosophy.
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Yeah i agree with that. They are certainly far away from Shapiro and the nuts at Fox News, who represent the repugnant right in my opinion.
 
Raoul said:
Rogan is basically a comedian so I don't view him in the same category as Harris or Peterson. The latter two are neither left nor right since they tend to evaluate ideas on the merits instead of dogmatically follow a decipherable political philosophy.
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Not so sure it that applies to Petersen after seeing his climate change denial tweet yesterday.
 
Raoul said:
The latter two are neither left nor right since they tend to evaluate ideas on the merits instead of dogmatically follow a decipherable political philosophy.
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:lol:

most people on the left or even the right evaluate ideas on merits over and over and eventually they realize that they tend to agree with a group of people and society labels those groups as left or right. i didnt sign up for the left wing opinion club where i get a push notification about what my views are four times a day. i just evaluated the ideas on merit and drew similar conclusions to other people.

the notion that peterson is some sort of non partisan ideas man is absurd. did he evaluate the ideas of how wearing lipstick means you are asking to be sexually harassed?
 
Eboue said:
:lol:

most people on the left or even the right evaluate ideas on merits over and over and eventually they realize that they tend to agree with a group of people and society labels those groups as left or right. i didnt sign up for the left wing opinion club where i get a push notification about what my views are four times a day. i just evaluated the ideas on merit and drew similar conclusions to other people.

the notion that peterson is some sort of non partisan ideas man is absurd. did he evaluate the ideas of how wearing lipstick means you are asking to be sexually harassed?
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I don't think they do. They instead evaluate ideas based on whether they jive with their preconceived political or moral preferences, not the other way around.
 
I DM Glenn Greenwald anytime I'm unsure, just to make sure I'm being appropriately left wing. I have no idea who that is, I just know Raoul bleats about him.
 
I wouldn't have Harris down as far-right or even that right at all since his views seem to be mixed on various matters - Peterson however is a staunch conservative and fairly unabashedly right-wing. Rogan I believe has a bit of a libertarian streak if I remember correctly, albeit with some sympathies towards the left.
 
Pogue Mahone said:


I think he comes out of this ok. Always good to see someone admit they’re wrong.
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he clearly hasnt thought about basically any of the things he says which is why people promoting him as an interesting thinker or whatever or delusional. this an emperors new clothes situation where they dont want to admit that the guy who told them to clean their room might not be a brilliant thinker
 
Pogue Mahone said:


I think he comes out of this ok. Always good to see someone admit they’re wrong.
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Better than Dave Rubin anyway. Still bizarre it's the first time I've seen him accept it's probably wrong to go down that road (just let people discriminate), considering it's a real common sense position.

Hurr Durr, the government is always the problem! Blah, blah, blah freedom, freeze peach...

Clip below is a bit long (and it becomes more about regulation than the gay cake thing) but it is one of the most stupid arguments I've heard in a long time and really shows how the libertarian worldview (that he's just rattling off from other people he's spoken to) is childish beyond belief.



If people can't be arsed (and I don't blame you):
  • He expects people to just move to a different state if they have a problem with discrimination.
  • There's no need for regulation. Everyone has smartphones now - they'll catch any foul play.
  • Amazon could easily replace the post office.
  • Dave Rubin's gay, incase you didn't know. He's against identity politics and hates that stuff being discussed. But he's gay, incase you didn't know.
P.s. And Rubin is the cnut who Peterson is/has been touring with. Incase you don't see the connection.
 
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