Pep's Barcelona vs Zidane's Real Madrid

Greatest club side ever?


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If you mean head to head since Zidane's been in Madrid they've played Barcelona 7 times. 3 wins, 2 draws, 2 losses.
You might have included last summer's friendly that Barca won if you count Supercup games seriously. Anyway, I think h2h paints the right picture - they're about equal. And both are far below Guardiola's Barcelona side quality wise.
 
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Zidane’s Madrid also only have one La Liga in Spain, they can be the kings of Europe despite not even being the Kings of their own backyard more often than not.

Zidane's Madrid were 11 points behind Barcelona and ended up being 1 point behind in 2016. If you include Benitez in Zidane's Madrid then it's not Zidane's Madrid.
 
Zidane's Madrid were 11 points behind Barcelona and ended up being 1 point behind in 2016. If you include Benitez in Zidane's Madrid then it's not Zidane's Madrid.

Barca’s choking in 2016 had nothing to do with zidane

And at the end of the day, Barca still won the league. Hell, last year’s Madrid were supposed to be the best Madrid of the decade and only beat Barca in the league by a point.
 
Barca’s choking in 2016 had nothing to do with zidane

Zidane's numbers in 2016 in the league are great for anyone's standards (17W, 2D, 1L), which should be the main point at stake if you refer to that league. Benitez's numbers (11W, 4D, 3L) were not, and Barcelona lost to Madrid at the Nou Camp so I would say Zidane had partly something to do with what you said.

And at the end of the day, Barca still won the league.

Yes, but as I said this thread involves Zidane, not Benitez

Hell, last year’s Madrid were supposed to be the best Madrid of the decade and only beat Barca in the league by a point.

First of all, it was 3 points.

Second, Barcelona managed to score no goals vs Juventus in 180 minutes while conceding 3 at Turin. Madrid scored 4 in 90 minutes. Juventus had only conceded 2 in the whole competition, so I would say that has something to do with how highly his Madrid in 2017 was rated.
 
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Zidane's numbers in 2016 in the league are great for anyone's standards (17W, 2D, 1L), which should be the main point at stake if you refer to that league. Benitez's numbers (11W, 4D, 3L) were not, and Barcelona lost to Madrid at the Nou Camp so I would say Zidane had partly something to do with what you said.



Yes, but as I said this thread involves Zidane, not Benitez



First of all, it was 3 points.

Second, Barcelona managed to score no goals vs Juventus in 180 minutes while conceding 3 at Turin. Madrid scored 4 in 90 minutes. Juventus had only conceded 2 in the whole competition, so I would say that has something to do with how highly his Madrid in 2017 was rated.

2017 Madrid was highly rated, and rightly so. They won the CL+League double, which makes them the best team in the world for that season as far as the majority of people who follow football are concerned. However, the 2016 and 2018 editions which didn't win the league are a different matter altogether.
 
Can't help thinking w this thread - It's a gawd dayum shame that SAFs United isn't in this debate instead.

We won 5 premier league titles in 7 years, made 3 Champions League finals in 4 years. We missed out on it being 5 league titles in a row by a total of one point and goal difference. You could even look at our second cup final and wonder if a different tactical approach would have won that game (the third was the biggest challenge of the lot with Ronaldo gone).
 
Can't help thinking w this thread - It's a gawd dayum shame that SAFs United isn't in this debate instead.

We won 5 premier league titles in 7 years, made 3 Champions League finals in 4 years. We missed out on it being 5 league titles in a row by a total of one point and goal difference. You could even look at our second cup final and wonder if a different tactical approach would have won that game (the third was the biggest challenge of the lot with Ronaldo gone).
Where would you rank United with Peps Barca and current Real? Third?
 
Can't help thinking w this thread - It's a gawd dayum shame that SAFs United isn't in this debate instead.

We won 5 premier league titles in 7 years, made 3 Champions League finals in 4 years. We missed out on it being 5 league titles in a row by a total of one point and goal difference. You could even look at our second cup final and wonder if a different tactical approach would have won that game (the third was the biggest challenge of the lot with Ronaldo gone).

That team is a tier below these two but I think it's true they don't really get the credit they deserve internationally. Between 2006 and 2009 all of Arsenal, Liverpool and Chelsea had great teams. Winning 3 Premier Leagues in a row in 3 years where 3 english teams made the CL semifinals is incredible. Then 1 CL title, 1 CL final and 1 CL semifinal is one of the best 3 year periods in football history. If Chelsea win that 2009 semifinal against Barcelona things could have been very different.

I think in 2011 not only United was weaker but english teams in general weren't the best in the world by then.
 
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Where would you rank United with Peps Barca and current Real? Third?

I think my phrasing was not clear - that United side with Ronaldo is not in the debate. Third with some distance between it and the two Spanish giants. It's just a shame for me because we were so close to being that great. Between a bit of luck (fit Hargreaves and not suspended Fletcher maybe) and better tactics we might have been.
 
That team is a tier below these two but I think it's true they don't really get the credit they deserve internationally. Between 2006 and 2009 all of Arsenal, Liverpool and Chelsea had great teams. Winning 3 Premier Leagues in a row agianst them and then 1 CL title, 1 CL final and 1 CL semifinal is one of the best 3 year periods in football history. If Chelsea win that 2009 semifinal against Barcelona things could have been very different.

I think in 2011 not only United was weaker but english teams in general weren't the best in the world by then.

Absolutely we were a tier below ... but I can't help thinking back and feeling it was a fine line keeping us from making the jump up.
 
Pep's Barcelona dominated their own domestic league and Europe for years by playing Total Football. That is the holy grail for any club/football fan. So Real Madrid can keep winning trophies and be more successful trophy wise but it won't change my opinion. Football is about so much more then just winning or losing.

So they get my vote. Pep's boys. I think they would beat this Madrid side convincingly considering the Barca team this season have.

Real Madrid have got a lot of luck, and don't seem as convincing when they do win.

In 20/30 years time Pep's Barca will still be talked about and that's what decided my vote.. also this Real Madrid will never be LOVED.
 
Zidane's numbers in 2016 in the league are great for anyone's standards (17W, 2D, 1L), which should be the main point at stake if you refer to that league. Benitez's numbers (11W, 4D, 3L) were not, and Barcelona lost to Madrid at the Nou Camp so I would say Zidane had partly something to do with what you said.



Yes, but as I said this thread involves Zidane, not Benitez



First of all, it was 3 points.

Second, Barcelona managed to score no goals vs Juventus in 180 minutes while conceding 3 at Turin. Madrid scored 4 in 90 minutes. Juventus had only conceded 2 in the whole competition, so I would say that has something to do with how highly his Madrid in 2017 was rated.

And I have no problem with last year’s Madrid being rated highly. But at he end of the day, Madrid had a horrific performance in the league this season, pep’s Barca were never that bad. How many of the current Madrid players would walk into barca’s 2011 starting XI?

These Madrid teams are good, but Barca’s was arguably (and I do say arguably) the best club in history.
 
How are people arguing against 3 back to back wins of Europes biggest competition?
 
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Zidane's team are obviously very good, but even more impressive is their ability to grind out results. Talking in relative terms they don't however blow your mind away and make other world class teams look average. They beat them, yes. Deservedly quite often too (although people will talk about their cheating, Barca have always done it also).

Barca on the other hand, were awe inspiring to watch. They would make world class teams and the next best team in Europe (us in 2009) look average. You don't necessarily get the best teams always in finals but I really think you did in the CL 2009 final and we were made to look like children, as were other teams around those few years.
 
The idea that UCL was down to luck and only the League can reflect the true level of a team literally started existing in the past few years because Barca fans and Madrid haters need to damage control what is currently going down in Europe these past few years.

No big club has more European Cups than League titles, much less CHampions Leagues.

It's not down to luck to win it three times in a row, It's a much harder competition to win than a league where you can mess up severals times and still pull through in the end.

Also the narrative of Barca's domestic success vs Zidane's Madrid is widely overblown, Zidane won La Liga last year and won more points than Barca in 15/16 from when he took charge.

The idea that cups are more down to luck compared to leagues literally started when leagues and cups were first invented for all sports that are played in both league and cup form. To say that Barca fans and Madrid haters literally started it is laughable.

As for messing up and still winning, I think that's even more true for a cup that's set up like the CL as you can win it with a 90min playoff record of 3W - 3L - 1D, or even 7 draws. It's simply impossible to win a league with that kind of win ratio.
 
If we break up Real's 3 CL victories. The first two was marred by Ref errors and extreme luck that allowed them to get past certain teams. This was the only season that they were able to win without any controversy.

Pep's team had great controversy but they were able to force teams to adapt to them. Pep's team was like that Ajax with Cyruff it was a great tactical masterclass. Zidane's Madrid is just efficient.

For me Pep's team was the greater side has they accomplished more things domestically while winning in europe
 
A part of me thinks that Lucho’s 2014/15 Barca side would beat both.
 
A part of me thinks that Lucho’s 2014/15 Barca side would beat both.
It lost 3-1 in a Clasico so one sided that could've easily been 6 or 7, the 3-1 really flattered them.

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2015 Barca’s front three might be the greatest front three in history. They would slice open Madrid’s defense over and over
Slice open? They had the worse h2h that year, let alone slicing it open, not to mention that Zizou's Madrid is a level or two beyond that Madrid. Take off those rose-tinted glasses.
 
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And Madrid would win

No they absolutely wouldn’t, they barely win against current Barca.

This Madrid side has very poor defense, a younger Messi and prime Xavi/Iniesta would have a field day.
 
It lost 3-1 in a Clasico so one sided that could've easily been 6 or 7, the 3-1 really flattered them.

And then went on to have one of the greatest runs from January to win a treble, something Madrid never did I might add. 2015 Barca’s front three might be the greatest front three in history. They would slice open Madrid’s defense over and over
 
It lost 3-1 in a Clasico so one sided that could've easily been 6 or 7, the 3-1 really flattered them.

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Slice open? They had the worse h2h that year, let alone slicing it open, not to mention that Zizou's Madrid is a level or two beyond that Madrid. Take off those rose-tinted glasses.

Oh please, the first Clasico was Suarez’s first ever game for Barca, the team had a new manager and they struggled all throughout the first half of the season against everyone. Their run from January onward was one of the most remarkable turnarounds of the decade. If you put money on Barca winning a treble on New Years of that season you’d have made 15 times your money back. That front 3 was arguably the most lethal front 3 the sport had ever seen. Their name numbers were staggering. They were putting 3 past a juventus side Madrid couldn’t break down and 5 past a Bayern side that had Neuer. Madrid has similar great runs against those teams in 2017, but the 2015 Barca was better offensively and defensively than the 2017 squad going by the numbers.
 
I still say that Barcelona team was the greatest club side I've seen, despite this Madrid side's success.

What say ye?

Farselona wouldn't have won a single CL without the blatant help from the refs. Not to mention doping. The most overrated team in history.
 
Farselona wouldn't have won a single CL without the blatant help from the refs. Not to mention doping. The most overrated team in history.

And Madrid never got help from the refs? Jesus Christ they were on the right side of some favourable offsides. Horrible opinion you’ve got there
 
It lost 3-1 in a Clasico so one sided that could've easily been 6 or 7, the 3-1 really flattered them.
That’s because we were rubbish in the first half of the season. If you want to go down that route, Zidane’s Real lost 0-3 at home to Barca this season.

In 2015, MSN were absolutely insane. We beat the French champions, English champions, German champions and Italian champions in our route to CL glory. We didn’t rely much on luck any of those games. We outplayed everyone in our path.

We beat Real 0-4 at the Bernabeu a few months later too, without Messi.

Slice open? They had the worse h2h that year, let alone slicing it open, not to mention that Zizou's Madrid is a level or two beyond that Madrid. Take off those rose-tinted glasses.
This current Madrid side can’t even beat the current Barca side.

2015 Barcelona would beat this Madrid team.
 
That front 3 was arguably the most lethal front 3 the sport had ever seen. Their name numbers were staggering. They were putting 3 past a juventus side Madrid couldn’t break down
Madrid were without their most key player in Modric against Juve (and most of the 2nd half of the campaign, among many other injuries), yet they went out due to one goal. Actually Barca got a big favor from ref in 2015 final, when it was 1-1, a clear PK (by Alves on Pogba) was not given to Juve, and Barca scored on the transition afterwards, the 3rd goal came late when they were all out attacking due to that refereeing mistake.

Meanwhile same MSN -best in history- with the same manager didn't do jack shit in 180 mins against Juve conceding 3 and scoring ZERO, yet Madrid scored 4 past them in as a one-sided final as you can see, and unlike the previous version of Juve, this one that had conceded only two in the whole CL campaign. Basically Juve conceded twice as many goals against Madrid, as they had conceded in a whole year in CL.
and 5 past a Bayern side that had Neuer.
That tie finished 5-3, and it could've been closer as the game was about to finish (like Roma-Pool, but to a lesser degree), not something you could call "put 5 past them" while Madrid won their tie against Bayern 5-0 just one year before that with a better Bayern that included Kroos, so if anything it was underwhelming by MSN.
That’s because we were rubbish in the first half of the season.
How were they rubbish when they had won all their games before the Clasico and then got their asses handed to them and were put back on their perch? That's just revisionist history.
If you want to go down that route, Zidane’s Real lost 0-3 at home to Barca this season.
That 3-0 was too flattering though, it was all about Madrid missing chance after chance (esp. 1st half where they were the better side) and Barca using their chances, and ofc. the red. Meanwhile the 3-1 win by Madrid in 2014-15 was as one sided as say a 5-0 or that 6-2.
In 2015, MSN were absolutely insane. We beat the French champions, English champions, German champions and Italian champions in our route to CL glory. We didn’t rely much on luck any of those games. We outplayed everyone in our path.
Had Modric not been injured, Madrid would've gone past Juve into the final, and the chances were it'd have been 50-50 at best for Barca, Madrid had the better h2h, and even in the 2nd Clasico Madrid was the better side till when Modric got injured for good.
 
Funny how Madrid isn't able to translate this apparent superiority into domestic league, where Barcelona side that can't get further than 1/4 final in Europe is consistently better. And this Barcelona side is obviously weaker than the one from Guardiola's time.

So, it's either league or cup results that are not telling the true story. It used to be a common wisdom that cups are unpredictable and comparatively very much down to luck, while league is the bread and butter of a football team. And while I will always argue that the overall quality of football is a bit higher in Spain than in England (mainly due to Madrid and Barca), there's no way that difference is as big as European results would suggest.

I am not saying it is a correct observation or anything, but this kind of reflects how I look at the teams. Both teams have the skills to win the league, but Barca have the discipline to do the job in every match while Real don’t. I see Real as full of talent and passion and Barca as a little army of efficient world class players. Remember how Zlatan described it:

“The whole gang – they were like schoolboys. The best footballers in the world stood there with their heads bowed”
 
It’s actually quite a hard question. I guess it depends on the time of year and when they play.

For example if it’s a Champions League final you’d expect Barcelona’s PEDs to really make the difference at that point in the season. After a difficult campaign the boost from illegal performance enhancing drugs could be the difference between Real taking it or not. Furthermore if Pep was allowed to destroy the evidence like he was in Spain you’d imagine by now the drugs would be even more spectacular and a 42 year old Xavi and a 38 year old Iniesta would be in their prime. Finally you’d have to take into account the fact that Pep would be hailed as a genius for only spending 503 million pounds per year and that could psychologically boost his team.

However in a Champions League semi final over two legs you’d expect Real to win. During that tie you’d expect at least maybe two offside goals to be counted and probably a sending off for an opposition player. You’d also be hoping for a last minute penalty for Real Madrid to really emphasise their tactical master plan of benefitting from every single major refereeing decision.

So it is a tough one to call. A lot of factors to take into account.
 
It’s difficult. Pep’s Barca dominated in a way I haven’t seen before. The style of play, combined with the genius of Messi was terrific to watch.

But to win 3 in a row is just incredible. And whilst this Madrid team may not have the style or long lasting tactical impact, they’re functional and great at the basics.

In a one off game I’d back Zidane’s Madrid against Pep’s Barca. Peak Kroos, Modric and Casemiro is a perfect match for Xavi, Iniesta and Busquets.
 
No they absolutely wouldn’t, they barely win against current Barca.

This Madrid side has very poor defense, a younger Messi and prime Xavi/Iniesta would have a field day.
Not so sure. Bayern solved how to beat Barcelona and they never got back their superior way of playing since that.

Bayern 2012/13 was also one legendary team!
 
They don't need to beat Barcelona to win the title, they need to make sure they beat the other teams. Last year they drew and lost against us but won the title, its about being consistent and competitive against the other sides. They finished 17 points behind Barca this year ffs.
Very true, basically Barca as a team and Messi are better at destroying the minnows but Real and Ronaldo turn up in the big games when it matters most.

Alternatively, Messi is better with a Nike ball and Ronaldo an Adidas ball? :confused:
 
I personally think there is little between the teams, I just want to make the point that for me, Modric is as good as either of Xavi or Iniesta were in that Barca team. I still think he's criminally underrated.
 
Like they ‘destroyed’ Chelsea and Inter?
That's about as good an argument as saying: well Girona beat Real this year, they're the best team in Europe lolol.

Obviously in football even a better team doesn't win all the matches they play, however, the dominance of Pep's Barcelona was, in my opiniom, far greater and more impressive then Zidane's Real. Wrong decisions by referees don't impact this in any way. Which is a rather ironic argument coming from a Real fan.
 
That's about as good an argument as saying: well Girona beat Real this year, they're the best team in Europe lolol.

Obviously in football even a better team doesn't win all the matches they play, however, the dominance of Pep's Barcelona was, in my opiniom, far greater and more impressive then Zidane's Real. Wrong decisions by referees don't impact this in any way. Which is a rather ironic argument coming from a Real fan.
Apart from the fact that Barca wouldn’t even be in the CL final that year by for the scandal of Stamford Bridge, and Inter knocked them out the following year despite the Busquet Oscar winning performance.

Girl a beat Real in a game that mattered little to Real.

Barca the better team,
Real the greater team.

I don’t support Real
 
Apart from the fact that Barca wouldn’t even be in the CL final that year by for the scandal of Stamford Bridge, and Inter knocked them out the following year despite the Busquet Oscar winning performance.

Girl a beat Real in a game that mattered little to Real.

Barca the better team,
Real the greater team.


I don’t support Real
Agree with the bolded.

A, my bad, you support Ronaldo not Real :)