I'm talking about people that follow the career of an individual (Pep/Messi/CR7 etc) and support them but are club agnostic. It's just weird.
'Pep' Guardiola sack watch
- Thread starter Classical Mechanic
- Start date
Look it’s football fans it happens. I’ve seen people call loads of big clubs or clubs with rich history a nothing club etc. Fans are fickle
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what did I sell? I support the club I've supported for 40 years and will continue to, I couldn't give a stuff what you think but when you start calling basically every club in the English pyramid a nothing club I'll call you out on it
of course they are, and I'll call them out on it, if he was calling Newcastle, Everton or anyone else a nothing club I'd have called him out on it
Oh alright well I don’t see much of that. I love Messi/CR7 I made time to watch them in their prime when I could but I never supported Real/Barca
Well you clearly do give a stuff which is why you're getting so worked up over a nothing comment.
I wasn't being serious. As I said all clubs are legitimate. However, and this isn't your doing, a club being propelled to highest due to middle Eastern riches is absolutely soulless. That's the context in which I said what I did because it's true. It's a scurge on this beautiful thing called sport. It's why City's success never impacts me like Liverpool and never could. Hollow. And if we ever get back on our perch, which I'm sure we will, I sure hope it's not due to some Saudi fecker being the reason. feck that. And I hope great managers create beautiful romantic footballing stories by avoiding clubs line that Wherher it's mine or yours.
And City aren't part of any pyramid. They snuck their way out of it through external help
Go look at who he signed in the 80's and early 90's.
Then compare it to who Pep, Zidane, Lampard or any of these guys who get handed a top job out of nowhere are able to buy.
Those guys were handed top jobs but not out of nowhere. It’s because they were great or very good players possessing strong ties with their respective clubs. It’s common for top players to get fast tracked into big jobs and usually it’s a mistake because many great players make poor managers and most great managers were marginal players at best.
However, 2 of the 3 you mentioned were wildly successful almost immediately and have made names for themselves as managers. The other started OK but then plummeted. He’s looking for his next opportunity.
But he signed in December '12 and was announced few weeks later. MONTHS before Bayern won the treble. You just never know what will happen in football. After City conceded 5 at home to Leicester a lot of people here thought Pep's finished.
I don't think being a good player with a comnection to a club is a qualification for these types of jobs.
Yeah Zidane and Pep much more successful than Lampard.
Would you also agree Zidane and Pep had better players? Most notably Ronaldo and Messi respectively.
Having those two, as a new manager, is a god send. I think Pep has pretty much said that himself.
It'll be interesting with Zidane. Like Pep he had an incredible start that now allows him to pretty much take his pick. Does he take the relatively safe route like Pep has. PSG next? Then another incredibly rich club?
I'd really like him to have a go at Arsenal. Let's see what he can do without all the cards being stacked in his favour.
It’s not a qualification but it happens all the time. We have to accept that club boards will always confuse being a good player with being a good manager. The point is that you can’t punish people for being good players and therefore having high enough profiles to get offered these jobs. I hear that Raul is due to take over at Madrid if Zidane leaves.
Obviously yes, but Ronaldo and Messi had by far their greatest success under Zidane and Pep so it works both ways to an extent.
Yes he has and obviously it helps a lot.
That’s not the ‘safe’ route, that’s the route anyone sensible takes in this day and age. If you’re a coveted manager you go to a top club. You only go to a lesser club if the top clubs don’t want you anymore. Cf Jose Mourinho.
I’m sure Arsenal would love him to have a go at them as well, but the chances are they won’t get him. That’s what happens with in demand people.
12 away wins in a row. A record for English football, no matter the money he spends he is doing a great job and I feel even if we matched their squad he still would be the difference
They are used to an empty stadium without fans etc. etc. so they had it easy.
Not sure about that. I've praised Pep more than most United fans, and don't think there's much between him and Fergie, but he doesn't have this league on lock. Chelsea and Liverpool have both won it since he's been here, and he was fortunate that no one else really turned up this year. He is the best manager in the world with a great squad so City will of course be favourites for the foreseeable, but you can't rule out other teams based off the leagues history.
Honestly, if we had got Grealish instead of wasting our time on Donny, we may have done something this year.
When Pep joined Messi hadn't completed a full season
Go an look at Messi's injury record before Pep and right after Pep left.
He doesn't take any safe route. They are offered to him. Roman was willing to bend the knee. City changed their whole structure for him. Agnelli's dream manager for Juve was Pep. The beating Pep's Barca gave Bayern caused them to change their philosophy.
Why would any one in any profession that has access to the best go and make their jobs harder...only in football you hear this stuff
When Pep arrived at Barca, they barely finished 3rd and had to do CL play offs in his first season. They literally took a risk on Pep and shelved Mourinho.
Zidane will never have Pep's options because Pep has a notable playing style that is mimicked across all levels of football around the world.
Struggling with lesser clubs is what you do when you can't get a big job. That's the reason Ancelotti is in Everton and Mourinho is in Roma. No elite manager is taking a step down when they can get a big job.
We've seen the difference between an elite coach in Tuchel and Lampard on the very same players.
This is what I agree with when people say he had the best team of all time is that yeah they were great but he made them better, Xavi was a a cracking player same as Iniesta but he took them to heights I never thought they would get too.When Pep joined Messi hadn't completed a full season
Go an look at Messi's injury record before Pep and right after Pep left.
He doesn't take any safe route. They are offered to him. Roman was willing to bend the knee. City changed their whole structure for him. Agnelli's dream manager for Juve was Pep. The beating Pep's Barca gave Bayern caused them to change their philosophy.
Why would any one in any profession that has access to the best go and make their jobs harder...only in football you hear this stuff
When Pep arrived at Barca, they barely finished 3rd and had to do CL play offs in his first season. They literally took a risk on Pep and shelved Mourinho.
Zidane will never have Pep's options because Pep has a notable playing style that is mimicked across all levels of football around the world.
Struggling with lesser clubs is what you do when you can't get a big job. That's the reason Ancelotti is in Everton and Mourinho is in Roma. No elite manager is taking a step down when they can get a big job.
We've seen the difference between an elite coach in Tuchel and Lampard on the very same players.
They are gonna lose the UCL final. Wait and see.
Three of Bayern's last five managers either didn't win the league every season or were fired because the club felt they weren't going to.
I’ve already said many times that I think this will happen, but it doesn’t make him a bad manager
It is actually quite funny to see Ronaldo fanboys arguing that longevity in a single club works in Fergie’s favour but use that to downplay Messi.
Pep in the other hand is like CR7, joining the best/richest clubs possible in their respective leagues to win trophies.
Personally, i think Fergie is the current GOAT, but he only won 2 UCL in his long career, and in the long run Pep will outshine him due to that
Pep in the other hand is like CR7, joining the best/richest clubs possible in their respective leagues to win trophies.
Personally, i think Fergie is the current GOAT, but he only won 2 UCL in his long career, and in the long run Pep will outshine him due to that
Is someone going to remove “sack watch”? A bit embarrassing
Why is Fergies achievements with Aberdeen not factored in to European performance? You could make a good argument it’s the most impressive European feat of both managers. You’re also assuming Pep is going to win more Champions Leagues, it’s a fair assumption granted but not a given so I don’t understand how Pep makes a better case
Yes but does Pep say "suuuuuuu" when City score? No
And that's why Ronaldo is the better player.
The irony
Before Pep joined Barcelona
Messi was a precocious winger who no one ever thought will be scoring 50 goals for fun
Xavi was actually called the cancer of Barcelona, too short too lightweight to control a midfield, and was about to be sold
Iniesta was just ah okay
Now we are hearing how it was dead certain that these 3 would be GOATS
He sold Dinho and Deco 2 of their best players and won a sextuple
The same argument can be said Ferguson got the opportunity to manage Ronaldo, He didn't get the opportunity, He made that Ronaldo
Some off pitch activities to take the shine off his celebrations.
Spurs star Dele Alli spotted snogging Man City boss Pep Guardiola’s daughter
https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/14961291/dele-alli-snogs-pep-guardiolas-daughter/
Spurs star Dele Alli spotted snogging Man City boss Pep Guardiola’s daughter
https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/14961291/dele-alli-snogs-pep-guardiolas-daughter/
Pepe deserves a lot of credit for the Barcelona turn around but I think the Messi and Ronaldo cases were very different. Messi was a genius boy wonder playing in a team in turmoil. Xavi and Iniesta were on the brink of greatness which we saw them achieve in fully functional Spanish side with Guardiola. I remember xavi controlling games for Barcelona under Rijkaard, I saw Iniesta look the best young midfielder I had even seen and wondering why we aren't talking about this little dynamite. So the team may have had issues but these players were ready to be lit on fire.
These are jobs for the manager alright but not quite the raising broken piece from the dead. His other work in getting rid of big names, taking a chance on pique was much more impressive.
But back to the comparison with Ronaldo, it's nowhere near the same. Ronaldo was not ready when we got him. He was this wiry kid from Powerful with explosiveness in his feet and sadly emptiness in his head. Beating two defenders would be followed up useless tricks and usually making himself silly against mature defenders who could suss him it. It was an incredible development job that was needed and qhjte frankly a bit of miracle from player and manager saw that transformation. Never seen anything like it.
I mentioned this before. That we've gone from adoring the single club magical stories of Charlton, Zanetti, Totti etc to a greater admiration in this youngee generation for the likes of Zalatan whe keep wanting to move and win something new as it's the alpha male cool dude thing to do. See the Haaland hype as well.Give the old school ones everything. Lack of loyalty is overrate
And proceeded to back in time and manage a team that didn't have those accomplishments right ? He had the best treble winning team in Europe who were about eat the Bundesliga alive as they did under him and many more. And managers before him and after him both did a BETTER job than him there.
I mean, he did a competent job. Just like Jose would have done had he only won Serie A with Inter as they used to. But unlike Mourinho he didn't do a great job as he only did the done thing. That's fine, but it's not greatness.
Ancelotti certainly didn't do better seeing he was sacked midway through his second season. Heynckes did win the treble, however he did have the 2011/12 season where he ended up with nothing (also worth noting he is the last Bayern coach who managed not to win the Bundesliga title).
There will always be dud years at any club. But 8/9 titles in a row says it all. And Hyckes and Flick were Bayern's best two managers during that period. Domestic success, CL success trebles. All in between kept a great thing going
I find the thread title and opening post highly disrespectful of perhaps the most important figure in modern football history.
That's a bit much. I feel it highly disrespectful that you think concern is worth posting on a Manchester United forum.First English club ever to win 12 away league games on the bounce, across any tier. You can add it to his collection of records broken since arriving here.
I'd love Pep to have a go at Arsenal. I know I know. Top managers and all that. They don't have to. Blah blah.
But just for the fun of it. Sport is supposed to be fun. Not just a series of bank transactions, to the megabillionaires go the spoils. Until he does there is a legitimate question mark over him. And comparisons with Ferguson will always be seen as ridiculous.
Arsenal are basically at the level United were at in 1986.
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No there isn’t. Also football has changed a lot since 1986.
Is this serious or sarcastic?! Can't tell. If serious, issue a cease and desist order or similar.
This thread is full of such absurdities. New member level is dropping fast.
He is not wrong actually, there are doubts about Pep’s ability to take on a weaker top club to glory, simply because he hasn’t done it.
But this applies to all GOAT level managers and players, just different doubts, simply because they haven’t done it. The problem is, since these people apply it to Pep, they have to apply it to all GOATs, to prevent double standards
A) Doubts on SAF taking on another top team that he is not a legend of, with board room politics he may not be able to control : Bayern, Real, Barca
B) Doubts of Sacchi (basically the same as SAF)
C) Doubts of Pele being able to play to the same level outside his super stacked Santos and Brazil
D) Doubts of Messi (same as Pele except his Argentina is top heavy so not considered a super team)
E) Doubts of Maradona being able to play as well as he did in a top tiered elite team over a long period of time like Pele/Messi