'Pep' Guardiola sack watch

The Hilton said:
This thread is packed to the rafters with extremism, either hero worship or fraud claims.

Pep is probably the best manager there's been at taking the best team in a league and making them look and play like it. Barca, Bayern, and City were all the best team around when he took over, and he made it show.
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Agreed with the bolded bit.

Tbf Barca wasn't the best team when he took over. He had a contribution in making them such - as did the development of Messi etc. How much you'd like to contribute to Pep will vary from person to person (like the 2 extremes would either give him zero credit, or make it sound like he took over Getafe and turned them into treble winners).

On point about City - again, wasn't the best team (technically) when he took (didn't we finish level on points but behind on GD?) but they had the spine of a great squad with key positions already sorted (KdB, Aguero, Sterling, Kompany, Silva, Toure (to name a few)) and were underachieving under Pellegrini wasn't it? And then obviously Pep had close to a blank cheque to shore up the defence and add immense quality to every position in that squad, while getting rid of the underperforming/declining players not suiting his style.

Bayern was definitely far and away the best team/squad in the BL.

He's probably the best coach around atm but he needs a squad matching his ideals or money to turn the squad into his image, IMO. His players need to be of a certain technical level for his system to thrive. I don't think he's proven otherwise yet.
 
Schmeichel's Cartwheel said:
From 96-06, i would agree with you. From 06-18, not so much.
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Had a look at some of his signings after that , I know he was operating under financial constraints with the Emirates move. But the majority of them were absolutely terrible. Holding, Asano, Debuchy, Perez, Paulista, Kolasinac, Mavropanos, Joel Campbell, Bischoff etc.

Even before that for every Eboue you had a Nelson Vivas. I think he was always trying to replicate the succcess of the Anelka type signing.
 
What a pile of crap with not having ambitions if you want Pep gone or a PL title win losing value if you beat them without Pep. They already have 2 top teams in their squad, unlimited money and a great manager. I mean why stop there?
Let’s all want them to get Haaland and Mbappe as well and let’s then beat them, because this will show their rivals’ real ambitions.
As if other PL rival fans didn’t want SAF to finally retire or didn’t want Ronaldo to leave United, etc.
 
He really is gonna win the CL this time, is not he? Will make it a bad season for United fans, particularly for those who live in Manchester.
 
Water Melon said:
He really is gonna win the CL this time, is not he? Will make it a bad season for United fans, particularly for those who live in Manchester.
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2nd leg all to play for and Pep has a history of overthinking things in the 2nd leg.

PSG can still come back and win it.

But this is probably their best shot of winning it under Pep despite them being better in the past.
 
Way to go, still. If PSG starts the second tie as they started the first, they could easily have a two goal lead at half time. People shouldn't forget City lost the City by xG. And they shouldn't underestimate the opponent in the final either. Chelsea looked very good against Madrid and they already beat City under Tuchel.

From a purely footballing aspect, the best KO semi finalists in a long while I'd say. PSG, City and Chelsea are very easy on the eye and Madrid isn't too bad either.
 
Ish said:
Agreed with the bolded bit.

Tbf Barca wasn't the best team when he took over. He had a contribution in making them such - as did the development of Messi etc. How much you'd like to contribute to Pep will vary from person to person (like the 2 extremes would either give him zero credit, or make it sound like he took over Getafe and turned them into treble winners).

On point about City - again, wasn't the best team (technically) when he took (didn't we finish level on points but behind on GD?) but they had the spine of a great squad with key positions already sorted (KdB, Aguero, Sterling, Kompany, Silva, Toure (to name a few)) and were underachieving under Pellegrini wasn't it? And then obviously Pep had close to a blank cheque to shore up the defence and add immense quality to every position in that squad, while getting rid of the underperforming/declining players not suiting his style.

Bayern was definitely far and away the best team/squad in the BL.

He's probably the best coach around atm but he needs a squad matching his ideals or money to turn the squad into his image, IMO. His players need to be of a certain technical level for his system to thrive. I don't think he's proven otherwise yet.
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There's a big difference between champions and best, and every team he's taken over has been the best, but Barca were mismanaged and City were underachieving.

It's clearly a skill though, being able to get the best out of the best players, judging by how many managers don't, including his predecessors.

As to your last point, it's absolutely true that he needs "his" players, the first season at City and hundreds of millions of fullbacks shows that, but he doesn't really need to be flexible as he can pick the clubs that have the finances to get him what he needs.

For me his achievements are very impressive, but aren't anywhere near "best ever" territory. I'm not even sure he can claim to be the best active manager given Zidane at Madrid and Klopp at Dortmund/Dippers.
 
The Hilton said:
There's a big difference between champions and best, and every team he's taken over has been the best, but Barca were mismanaged and City were underachieving.

It's clearly a skill though, being able to get the best out of the best players, judging by how many managers don't, including his predecessors.

As to your last point, it's absolutely true that he needs "his" players, the first season at City and hundreds of millions of fullbacks shows that, but he doesn't really need to be flexible as he can pick the clubs that have the finances to get him what he needs.

For me his achievements are very impressive, but aren't anywhere near "best ever" territory. I'm not even sure he can claim to be the best active manager given Zidane at Madrid and Klopp at Dortmund/Dippers.
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Yeah not much to disagree with there. If you gave me the option of Pep or Klopp, I'd consult the budget we're able to provide them. An unlimited pot or an already "best" team - I'd have Pep. With a limited budget, i'd definitely pick Klopp who has proven he can work in that environment.

Zidane is an interesting one. Achieved the 3 peat (albeit with an immense squad peaking together) but his league form is also patchy - not to detract from his achievements (imagine he wins number 4 this year!). I'm not sure where/how to rate him but he's most certainly up there if we're talking purely achievements.
 
Schmeichel's Cartwheel said:
i agree but it didn’t stop you lot hounding him out. Grass isn’t always greener, Arsenal fans are realising that now.
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I certainly didn't hound him out even at his worse. It's why some Arsenal fans are uniting and starting to condemn channels like AFTV.
 
Ish said:
Zidane is an interesting one. Achieved the 3 peat (albeit with an immense squad peaking together) but his league form is also patchy
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It isn't. He's won two out of three in the full seasons he's managed and is competing reasonably well for a third title in four. He only had one bad league season.
 
Water Melon said:
He really is gonna win the CL this time, is not he? Will make it a bad season for United fans, particularly for those who live in Manchester.
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I don't care to be honest, Guardiola is the best in the world, if City win they probably deserve it. We must win the EL League in any case.
 
Ish said:
Agreed with the bolded bit.

Tbf Barca wasn't the best team when he took over. He had a contribution in making them such - as did the development of Messi etc. How much you'd like to contribute to Pep will vary from person to person (like the 2 extremes would either give him zero credit, or make it sound like he took over Getafe and turned them into treble winners).

On point about City - again, wasn't the best team (technically) when he took (didn't we finish level on points but behind on GD?) but they had the spine of a great squad with key positions already sorted (KdB, Aguero, Sterling, Kompany, Silva, Toure (to name a few)) and were underachieving under Pellegrini wasn't it? And then obviously Pep had close to a blank cheque to shore up the defence and add immense quality to every position in that squad, while getting rid of the underperforming/declining players not suiting his style.

Bayern was definitely far and away the best team/squad in the BL.

He's probably the best coach around atm but he needs a squad matching his ideals or money to turn the squad into his image, IMO. His players need to be of a certain technical level for his system to thrive. I don't think he's proven otherwise yet.
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Yeah Guardiola has always had fantastic squads at his disposal, but to his credit he's always managed to implement his style and make them play the way he wanted them to, although he somewhat adjusted his style at each of his teams. And that's not something every manager achieves everywhere they go, Mourinho for instance.

On top of that, he's overseen some rebuilding everywhere he went without really losing momentum, and generally seems to improve a lot of players, both talents or more established players.

The only real question mark behind him are his cup performances, either because he overthinks it and tinkers too much, or because his teams can be vulnerable to teams that are good on the counter. His style is perfect for the league format though, because that dominant possession means that they're the ultimate flat-track bully, and I don't mean that negatively.

As for the bolded part, I agree his style is more demanding than most. I think it would be fascinating seeing him take over a team with less means and see how he would do though. It's true he hasn't proven that he can do it without money or extremely talented technical players, but I think too many people think that means it's been proven that he definitely can't do it. Obviously, expectations would have to be different if he took over a much poorer side, but in my opinion he'd still have them play good football after some time. Klopp's football might not be as reliant on technical players, but, even though he didn't spend a lot of money, in hindsight we know his Dortmund side had some brilliant technical players like Gundogan, Hummels, Gotze, Lewandowski, Reus etc.

Without the funds Guardiola's teams probably wouldn't be as dominant, but personally I think people would be surprised what he could achieve with a smaller team. Not that we'll ever see it.
 
Boavista said:
Yeah Guardiola has always had fantastic squads at his disposal, but to his credit he's always managed to implement his style and make them play the way he wanted them to, although he somewhat adjusted his style at each of his teams. And that's not something every manager achieves everywhere they go, Mourinho for instance.

On top of that, he's overseen some rebuilding everywhere he went without really losing momentum, and generally seems to improve a lot of players, both talents or more established players.

The only real question mark behind him are his cup performances, either because he overthinks it and tinkers too much, or because his teams can be vulnerable to teams that are good on the counter. His style is perfect for the league format though, because that dominant possession means that they're the ultimate flat-track bully, and I don't mean that negatively.

As for the bolded part, I agree his style is more demanding than most. I think it would be fascinating seeing him take over a team with less means and see how he would do though. It's true he hasn't proven that he can do it without money or extremely talented technical players, but I think too many people think that means it's been proven that he definitely can't do it. Obviously, expectations would have to be different if he took over a much poorer side, but in my opinion he'd still have them play good football after some time. Klopp's football might not be as reliant on technical players, but, even though he didn't spend a lot of money, in hindsight we know his Dortmund side had some brilliant technical players like Gundogan, Hummels, Gotze, Lewandowski, Reus etc.

Without the funds Guardiola's teams probably wouldn't be as dominant, but personally I think people would be surprised what he could achieve with a smaller team. Not that we'll ever see it.
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Yeah agreed with the above. It must also be noted and praised that both Pep and Klopp seem to improve a lot of individual players through their system/coaching. That's not always easy to achieve.
 
The holy trinity 68 said:
They were already the best in Europe as well. He took the job because it was of little risk and almost guaranteed to win. He is a top manager obviously but as others have said he will guarantee trophy after trophy as long as he has the best team or the most money to spend.
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Yeah. Some of Jose and Klopp achievements have been, more impressive and Ferguson's to a degree. Thats why Neville kinda P'd me off. I went to Barcelona in 2017 for a festival and the cab driver in Barcelona said he felt Jose was a better manager than Pep because Pep had an easy team to manage! quite extreme from a Barcelona native and I don't agree with him fully but it is something to go against his resume
 
Pep will always have elite clubs lining up for him. To expect him to manage mere mortals so he can prove something to e-managers is simply not realistic. None of us would.
 
Ish said:
Agreed with the bolded bit.

Tbf Barca wasn't the best team when he took over. He had a contribution in making them such - as did the development of Messi etc. How much you'd like to contribute to Pep will vary from person to person (like the 2 extremes would either give him zero credit, or make it sound like he took over Getafe and turned them into treble winners).

On point about City - again, wasn't the best team (technically) when he took (didn't we finish level on points but behind on GD?) but they had the spine of a great squad with key positions already sorted (KdB, Aguero, Sterling, Kompany, Silva, Toure (to name a few)) and were underachieving under Pellegrini wasn't it? And then obviously Pep had close to a blank cheque to shore up the defence and add immense quality to every position in that squad, while getting rid of the underperforming/declining players not suiting his style.

Bayern was definitely far and away the best team/squad in the BL.

He's probably the best coach around atm but he needs a squad matching his ideals or money to turn the squad into his image, IMO. His players need to be of a certain technical level for his system to thrive. I don't think he's proven otherwise yet.
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agree completely.
 
Adisa said:
I think he'll be there as long as he's comfortable. His family love the city. He'll be there for a while yet.
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I think his family doesn't live in Manchester for 2 or 3 years now but he signs extensions anyway so clearly he's fine with his life now. I think Johan Cruyff coached Barcelona for 8 years and Pep's probably trying to do the same with City (8-10 years there).
 
What a depressing set of semi finalists. Real sign of times of football. Oil, Oil, Whatever roman does, Spanish government. How sad
 
Dr. StrangeHate said:
Pep is one of a kind. We can buy prime Messi and Ronaldo and I would still expect Pep football to be champion over the course of a season. It is not about being soft, it is about being realistic.
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Klopp has managed to beat Pep without Messi or Ronaldo.
 
Fun fact: Guardiola has never been sacked in his career as a manager :lol:
 
His substitution in the first leg of bringing on zinchenko left back changed the game and tie IMO. City took more control and nullified di Maria a whole lot which meant mbappe was out the game and Neymar had to drop to the half way line.

Pep is usually stubborn around this time in the CL over thinking it. This time he kept his best players in their best formation. Also Mahrez ahead of sterling too helped
 
He's finally done what he's always wanted to do - have a team made of almost exclusively midfielders
 
It was a stupid selection from him. This is the only league game left that they needed to win. He’s given Chelsea a psychological advantage and an opportunity to take the league easy themselves in the final couple of games.

Good man
 
One of Pep's biggest weaknesses is his arrogance. His selection today was nothing but showing off from him - look i could win the title with my reserve team! He deserved to lose today.
 
PepG said:
Fun fact: Guardiola has never been sacked in his career as a manager :lol:
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Yet... but his day will come, sometime somewhere (but not at City because we love him)
 
Judge Red said:
It was a stupid selection from him. This is the only league game left that they needed to win. He’s given Chelsea a psychological advantage and an opportunity to take the league easy themselves in the final couple of games.

Good man
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Not at all, Pep gives no shits about playing Chelsea on the back of losing to Chelsea. Everyone and their dog knew we were getting 8 changes today (we got 9). He's said all along everyone will play and it was clear those who didn't vs PSG would today. If he makes a mess of it and somehow conspires to lose the PL and CL final he'll be sacked and people will make more of it than they should if we lose the final to Chelsea, but really it has no bearing.

Chelsea are a good side capable of beating any XI we put out on any given day. Today alone we were lucky to have Sterling on the pitch to score, then if not for a mental implosion by Kun we'd have sealed the title despite Chelsea being the better team. It happens, they've just tonked Real Madrid in the CL, they can beat our first XI too.
 
Would Guardiola be the first manager that has been banned for taking drugs as a player to win the PL? Still don’t get the adulation of the man. All the clubs he’s managed had great players when he joined (which is why he joined) and money. He’s probably is a good coach buy give Graham Potter a billion quid and he’d win the PL. When he finallyy leaves his £20m pa job at City, he said he’ll have a year off. The Sheik won’t sack him whatever happens in the CL, well not until he has Simeone signed up.
 
Offsideagain said:
Would Guardiola be the first manager that has been banned for taking drugs as a player to win the PL? Still don’t get the adulation of the man. All the clubs he’s managed had great players when he joined (which is why he joined) and money. He’s probably is a good coach buy give Graham Potter a billion quid and he’d win the PL. When he finallyy leaves his £20m pa job at City, he said he’ll have a year off. The Sheik won’t sack him whatever happens in the CL, well not until he has Simeone signed up.
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He joined Barca B because they had the best players? Also of all the managers you think he's gonna be replaced with you think Simeone? The complete opposite to Pep in just about every way. You haven't been paying attention.
What manager in their right mind would turn down a top club to manage a little one. Imagine being a chef 5* restaurant, 2k a week wages? Is he gonna suddenly quit and go work at McDonalds for minimum wage to prove himself?
 
You have to raise an eyebrow to how certain managers are able to get better of pep over and over again but is assisted by the fact that man city constantly have the strongest squad going in England to help him win trophies.

I can't knock the job he did with Barca but would question whether the big advantages he has had whilst managing Bayern and man city if he really has been consistently at the same level he was when he was at barca
 
He is better now than he was at Barca -tactically and in his man management.. Guardiola is constantly evolving as a manager. This and his ability to adapt are crucial part of how successful he is.
 
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