You'd what?
'Pep' Guardiola sack watch
- Thread starter Classical Mechanic
- Start date
You'd what?
I'm not up to speed with his Barca B stuff but you say he turned Barca b into one of the best sides in the league. I'm guessing this was a lower league. Why would this earn him the top job ahead of managers who have done far more in the game?
He's not the only manager to win things with Barca, Bayern and Man City over the past 13 years. I reckon you wouldn't be able to count on 2 hands the managers who have won the league with those 3 over that period. Bayern win it every year. City are well on their way to replicating that whoever their manager is.
Winning leagues with City, MessiBarca and Bayern just isn't that special in my humble opinion.
Nobody would've succeeded with that squad.
Of the squad he inherited, just two, maybe three will still be at City come the start of next season. Other than Jesus Navas (and arguably Aleks Kolarov and Willy Caballero haven't done too badly) everyone else's careers took a very sharp nosedive once they left the club- Hart, Sagna, Clichy, Zabaleta, Nasri, Bony, Delph, Mangala, Touré, Iheanacho. Fernando is doing well now but only after a few years in the purgatory for near-finished players that is the Turkish Super Lig. The fact that almost none of them really succeeded after leaving City is a good indicator of the level they were actually on at the time Pep arrived, rather than the level the public perceived them to be.
The others in that squad were Kompany, Otamendi, Agüero and Silva, to be fair. So yeah the spine of that team he inherited was great but the rest was touching on Europa League level.
I would add to this that what really sets Ferguson apart is that he instilled a winning mentality in his teams, year after year. This is something Pep is unable to do. It's the most difficult thing to achieve in sports. Just look at Liverpool this season, Klopp cannot master this skill either. Ferguson's teams could win the quadruple and then the next day be focused on winning the league the next season. Rio said after they won the CL, there was no celebration the next day - they were just focused on the league title. And the day after winning the league, next year's title. It's one of the reason's Keane said he knew Yorke had to leave. He said Yoke had said that if he never won anything else (after the CL win) then he didn't care. That's when Keane knew he'd be sold. Because that's not the mentality of a Ferguson player.
We've seen that Pep's teams don't have that same mentality - and that the man himself admits he needs breaks from football. He left Barcelona because he admitted he could no longer motivate them - I'm not downplaying him as a coach, because I think tactically he's the best there is and was probably a better tactical coach than Fergie. But I don't think the two are comparable.
He didn't win La Liga with them if that's what you're suggesting.
Because Barca's president saw Pep's obvious coaching ability and decided to give him the opportunity.
But you could count with one thumb the number of managers who've done it with all three, multiple times per club, in about twelve years and all without ever having a truly bad season or even coming close to getting sacked. There's only one- Pep.
No chance. Our dominance is over when Pep goes. We'll probably win the league once every three or four seasons at best.
At the end of the day it's incredibly easy to say that anyone can do it, but impossible to name anyone who actually has- or has even come very close.
How have you come to that conclusion?
Pep would not have the poor season Klopp is having this season though.
Pellegrini and Mancini and more will follow as City slowly increase their stranglehold on English football.
He did leave Barca after Mourinho beat him with an inferior Real squad in 2012. He wasn't sacked but it was hardly a glorious farewell. Villanova then took over and had a record breaking season. So...... Not that special
He ran off to bayern to win some easy leagues and now the same at PetroCity. Lovely stuff
I'm sure he's devastated.
Pep: "I felt as if I could no longer lift the team.' "
'But gradually I found it more and more difficult to motivate myself and to motivate the team. That is when you know it is time to walk away,' said Guardiola.
The man himself admits he struggles to motivate a team past a certain point. I'm not sure how you can argue against it when he left Barca because in his own words he couldn't motivate his own players. City have only won the league once in succession. Ferguson won it back to back 6 times. With City's resources and squad if Pep was the same motivational level as Fergie - and as tactically advanced as he is you would expect that number to be much higher. He's simply not as good at motivating players, there's never been a manager that has been close to Ferguson in terms of motivational ability and that's nothing to be ashamed of because the man was simply in another league.
The length of Ferguson's reign at United is skewing your conclusion. You don't have to stay at a club for 20 years (like Ferguson did) to show that you can instill a winning mentality year in year out. This is about to be Guardiola's 9th league title... Weird to classify him as being unable to instill a winning mentality, and further classify Ferguson as the only manager in history with this quality.
Yes yes. Very good.
In future I'll refrain from airing my football opinions on a football fan forum in fear of offending Pep or suffering witty snipes.
What was I thinking?
Ferguson was top notch when it came to motivating players. Nobody comes even close to him.
However, in my view, it should also be taken in consideration that Ferguson managed mostly in a different era than Pep, an era where players were less distracted and managers had higher authority. Also playing for a big club was a lot harder to achieve back then.
Pep not being able to motivate his Barca players might have something to do with his style as well. To achieve that level of almost football perfection he was pressuring his players a lot. After a few years of trying to play that style with every pass being inch perfect, high aggressive press and so on, the players will lose motivation and will start to slow down a bit.
I once heard Ionut Lupescu (ex football player, had some high ranking uefa position until a few years ago and is a good friend of Sir Alex) say that, in 1990, when he moved to Bayer Leverkusen he felt mentally exhausted after each training session. He moved from a pretty free flowing football in Romania to a very organized team and it was pretty hard for him to play his football and also take into consideration all the new details he needed to apply. I imagine that's kind of similar with Pep.
Most of SAF's players came out during interviews saying that he pretty much allowed them to play free flowing football and just in very big games he'd have very detailed tactics. When it comes to that, Pep is a man possessed and it's no wonder it takes it toll on players after a while. Don't think that doesn't make him a good motivator of people though.
None of our opinions matter to be honest, except to us. This is a debate that happens only on the internet.
Let me ask you this though, out of curiosity... What do you think is the reason why Pep is regarded by all the big clubs as a great coach and why do they all want him if he's not all that great as you're claiming?
That’s the important question, why would anyone voluntarily make that move. The best players usually want to play for the best teams, and it’s the same with managers. They’re ultra competitive and want trophies and success.
Brendan Rodgers took Swansea to 11th in their first premier league season with Danny Graham leading the line (yeah I know I never shut up about that). He’s a talented manager but far away from someone like Pep, his style was also heavily derivative of Guardiola’s, if a little more pragmatic. If Rodgers can have success in that manner, there is no reason to believe Guardiola couldn’t. But why would he want to manage Swansea when he can manage literally any club in the world.
I get what you’re saying now, but I still don’t really think it holds up. The claim I was disputing was about Guardiola inheriting the greatest ever club side, which when we look at the circumstances of the club when he took over we can see that it wasn’t the case and his contribution and role in the creation of that Barcelona side is often overlooked or underestimated. By looking at the years preceding we can see the situation the club was in, what players they had and how they were performing, the tactical style of the team and the success they had, we can breakdown the job that Guardiola did. The years after he left have absolutely nothing to do with assessing the work he did in the summer of ‘08. You yourself said that he deserves no credit for the work of the managers that came after, yet you think that the work of the managers who followed Guardiola should be taken into consideration when assessing his 08-09 season.
Pep in the last 4 season in what is deemed the most competitive league in the world is 1st, 1st , 2nd likely 1st again. in 5 seasons in the league
This inferior squad had Ronaldo, Kaka, Ramos, Modric, Benzema, Xabi, Ozil, Khedira, Marcelo, Coentrao, Casillas, Pepe, DiMaria
The problem is that we risk reading too much into things for the simple reason that clubs have bad seasons every so often. I also don't really think that there is a widespread problem of people not giving credit to Guardiola for Barcelona, anyway, so I don't think his work there really needs to be defended a whole lot. I am "criticizing" him using a framework that also leads me to conclude he's the best manager in the world; I think he can take it.
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Now you knowNot sure if this is serious or sarcasm.
Can this c*** retire already?
Remember the early season bumps on this thread when they were marooned in the bottom half. 
Hopefully he skips off into the sunset if he guides city to the European cup
His change at lb was a good one based on what was happening in the game
It's funny to see Man Utd fans wishing Pep is gone rather than hoping to beat a Pep team to the title. I guess you guys will not be real champions if you only win the title after Pep leaves Man City?
Only bad teams seek to win titles by hoping their rival team's manager is gone.
Only bad teams seek to win titles by hoping their rival team's manager is gone.
Hey guys I agree with this Arse fan. We're getting soft.
An Arsenal fan lecturing us on the intricacies of success.
Don't even know where to start with that.
Zinchenko is the better LB. Cancelo is better at RB but Walker's pace is indispensable.
You never once wished Fergie to retire then? Not happy when he finally did?
Liar. Hahahaha
We’re realistic. We don’t have Sir Alex anymore. How are we going to surpass them with Ole & the Glazers? This isn’t Arsenal under Wenger or Chelsea under Jose, the gap is much bigger & we don’t have the facilities to close it right now. They have a massive financial advantage over everyone & the best coach in the world. We need significant investment & a much better manager to overtake them. Neither of those are realistic right now.
Ole & the Glazers are going nowhere, so we have to hope they feck up their next appointment once Pep’s gone.
Has a great squad but he's by far the best coach in the world. In terms of talent, I don't think any coach has come close in the last twenty years.
Couple that with a club with deep pockets and it's a ridiculous combination.
Couple that with a club with deep pockets and it's a ridiculous combination.
Coming from a city fan
Admittedly, it's pathetic but I can't see us getting the better of them with this guy in charge of City.
Where are we going to find a coach as good as he is?
No. I would rather have a Arsenal team facing off Fergie than someone like Moyes.
So he's not a Pep Guardiola is my idol anymore?
What an absolutely bizarre posts. I guess Liverpool's title doesn't count because they won it after Ferguson retired. Please...We spent years battling with you guys despite having far less resources and wealth, and including the fact that our best players were being poached nearly every season, including by you guys.
Whereas you guys are complaining about Pep when you have just as much of a financial wealth to match City. Few other big clubs can afford to spend billons building a team. It's not Pep's fault you guys kept wasting money.
You guys still have one of the biggest revenue out of all the clubs in the world despite Glazers taking money from the club. Your net transfer spent is frankly ridiculous, and you guys have been breaking transfer records after Alex Ferguson left.
You guys had the resources, but you are simply shit at spending it. Give Wenger the same resources and he would have built a better team than what you guys are having right now.
Hans Flick, Marco Rose, Tuchel, Klopp and many other top coaches are able to build very good teams that do very well in the Champion League. It's not their fault that you guys are contend with sticking with Ole.
It's pathetic that you guys can compete against City, but you won't even try. Persisting with the wrong managers and wrong recruitment team is why you guys can't compete against CIty. Liverpool managed to do it with less resources.
Yet Liverpool won the title against Pep. Liverpool fans didn't complain about never winning the title because Pep is around.
You guys are worse than Liverpool fans if you ask me.
And? Does a title only count if you won it against Pep? Do Ferguson's titles not count because he didn't win them against Pep?
How long after Pep leaves will titles start counting for something again? Will the title be worth winning 5 years after he's left or are they still illegitimate? What about 10 years?
I assume you’re talking about the Wenger of 15-20 years ago, because modern day Wenger signed the likes of Elneny, Xhaka, Denilson, Jenkinson, & Sanogo, amongst others. He’s the last person I’d trust with money.