Another Guardiola love in. The man himself said ,when ask why City are successful , ‘ We have a lot of money so we can buy the best players’. It’s not brain surgery is it. SAF built team after team over a number of years even when the billionaires arrived in the PL. Guardiola has a long way to go to match him.
'Pep' Guardiola sack watch
- Thread starter Classical Mechanic
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The bench is so deep everyone can lie down
The legendary Arrigo Sacchi said himself the best tactic is to have quality players. Without it you will win nill
Nothing to do with the 1.3 billion pounds he's spent over his career?
Precisely. He gets whoever he wants wherever he goes. He had the luxury of not wanting Zlatan Ibrahimovic at Barca. Took over a treble winning Bayern and then went to City to again cherry pick. Until he wins trophies with a side and makes them better than the sum of its parts like managers like SAF, Klopp, Mourinho and Wenger have had to do at different stages in their careers he's not going to cut it as a goat in my book anyway.
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I can't understand at all those saying he's greater than SAF. Not even same ballpark. Fergie built clubs. Built empires. Look at the players he had in his first job. Look at Pep's.
He deserves a lot of credit for implementing a new style, a new style that almost everyone has copied. Anybody who originates something in sport should be commended for it.
But I'd even say Klopp has been better than Pep in the Prem. I don't even think that's debatable.
He deserves a lot of credit for implementing a new style, a new style that almost everyone has copied. Anybody who originates something in sport should be commended for it.
But I'd even say Klopp has been better than Pep in the Prem. I don't even think that's debatable.
This is his 3rd Premier League title..As his old friend says:
Not many are. It's possible to praise him and think SAF is the greatest, which most knowledgeable fans think.
The man who never had his first real test
Certianly more pundits are. We've had Neville and now Savage. Lescott tonight only held back on a technicality.
Neville must have dementia.
Savage is an idiot (and probably caught up in the moment).
Even Pep thinks this...
Great manager, but I put people that built a team from scratch above him. The likes of Clough, Shankly, Busby and Fergie will always be above him for me, and even Klopp.
Hes bought incredibly well and it's bought him another title. The fact that it is the most anti climactic non headline grabbing seemingly most pointless title ever speaks to where the state of the game is at really. Lost its heart and soul so completely that it's hard to particularly care in the same way as when Mancini won it even
I'm surprised this thread is still going.
Don't think he's even built his best City side yet as this is one is obviously a really good team but I still feel it's missing a few things, which is crazy as they could do a treble this season (not THE treble though).
A world class striker (Kane or Haaland), maybe an improvement on Sterling and keeping De Bruyne fit for the season would be pretty scary for the rest of the league next year.
A world class striker (Kane or Haaland), maybe an improvement on Sterling and keeping De Bruyne fit for the season would be pretty scary for the rest of the league next year.
The problem with that attitude is that in the future, no one will care what he spent or what circumstances he walked into. They will just look at what he won.
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This is why some say he's better than Fergie. They aren't looking at things only from a managerial point of view.
He's inherited a bunch talented players and spent a fortune, but this still mental, IF he wins the CL itlls be 32.
He didn’t actually invent anything new but his stylistic influence has been massive, largely through that Barca team, which is the best I’ve ever seen. They reminded me of the 90s Chicago Bulls team in the sense that they were greatly feared by all their opponents.
Some of these guys made it sound like SAF won with bums
I think he's been quite lucky this season. The signing of Dias completely transformed his team. Dias will probably go down as the best defender he's signed in his career (I'd have him and Walker as the two best Pep's signed).
Well, I say lucky, but obviously a lot of research and diligence is done to make a signing, but you get my point. And it's a feather in the hat for a manager when they make a signing and it comes off.
Without Dias, I think they would have struggled. To be honest, before they signed him, they were!
Well, I say lucky, but obviously a lot of research and diligence is done to make a signing, but you get my point. And it's a feather in the hat for a manager when they make a signing and it comes off.
Without Dias, I think they would have struggled. To be honest, before they signed him, they were!
Some of these guys made it sound like SAF won with bums
Our squad had some quality holes back then, but we had world class players in a lot of positions. The good thing I can point about SAF is that he had an eye for the "working class" player who's always available to cover the needs and always give 100%, like Brown, O'Shea, Phil Neville, etc.
Looking at those players careers after leaving, they were actually good footballers, since they kept playing in the starting 11 of the teams they went.
I can bet that all the people undermining him can't wait til he leaves City as no matter who replaces him, it will be a big downgrade. He is quite clearly the best manager in the world, and has been for the last 10 years. His teams spend a lot of money but so do many others. We spent like nearly a billion ourselves in the last decade, imagine if we had him as a manager, we would probably be on our way to 30th league title.
Fergie is better than Pep, no doubt about it. But give Pep another 10-20 years, he may get much closer in terms of overall achievements. But he will never match Fergie legacy, because he never manage to build his own team/club/empire from scratch.
Klopp though, what he had done for Liverpool is admirable. But no, he is not better than Pep. No matter how much money Pep has spent, he never really “failed” or had any “bad” season, or as bad as the one Liverpool is having this season. Also, Pep’s brand of football has been one of the best I’ve ever seen, money alone doesn’t buy that. I mean, Mourinho has spent a lot too, look how shite his football was, disregard the result.
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In England I'd put Klopp's achievements uch higher. To get Liverpool their first league in almost 30 years is a big deal. Then obviously he's done much better in Europe. All with a much smaller budget.
Also don't forget Mourinho's first stint. At least as impressive. Again Chelsea's first league, not just a continuation of winning ways. He also changed the game to some extent. You couldn't start a season slowly anymore and that was something United had to sort out from there on in.
So comparisons to Fergie are miles off.
The debate is has he been better than Mourinho, Klopp or Wenger in England.
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Well in England Pep has won 3 league titles in 4 years, and is on the way to win CL too and “treble”. You may argue Klopp has spent less money and it’s harder to win things with Liverpool, which makes his feats more “admirable”. But no matter how admirable it’s is, Pep still won far more trophies in England than Klopp (8 or 9 trophies in 5 years vs 4 trophies in 6 years)
Mourinho has his up and down, overall he won 9 trophies in 8 years, but he has spent a lot of money too with Chelsea and us, his brand of football is boring, his man management is self-destructive, and he had failed at least 3 times for Chelsea, us and Spur. So I don’t think he can compare with Pep.
Trophy/achievement:
1. Pep - 8 or 9 trophies in 5 years (1.6-1.8 trophies per year)
2. Mourinho - 9 trophies in 8 years (1.1 trophies per year)
3. Klopp - 4 trophies in 6 years (0.7 trophies per year)
3 Wenger - 10 trophies in 22 years (0.5 trophies per year)
Legacy:
1. Wenger - “Invincible”. Master of Economics - Always maintain top 4 finish despite working with little budget
2. Klopp - won league for Liverpool first time in 30 years. Won CL.
3. Pep - won the league with record breaking 100 pts. (On the way to win “treble”)
4. Mourinho - park the bus. 1-0 is the most ideal result.
Brand of Football:
1. Pep
2. Wenger
3. Klopp
4. Mourinho
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I don't think "admirable" needs to be put in inverted commas. Nor do I think it's the right word. Winning the league with Liverpool after 30 years, up against three clubs who have more money is just better. Better than winning leagues with the richest club who had already won two of the previous four before Pep took over. It's a considerably better achievement. Something Pep hasn't yet come close to.
Same goes for what Wenger did at Arsenal.
I'm not dismissing Pep. His Barca team, the City team with Silva and De Bruyne in peak form, is probably as good a set of performances as you can get. No matter the resources.
Pep's a brilliant manager and I hate seeing people talk about him as a fraud on sites like this, as a football fan you have to think beyond tribalism at times and just appreciate characters who make our game great.
That said, it's been tiring and a bit embarrassing seeing the glut of articles today on the BBC, Guardian etc. lauding this season as City's best ever. They're so desperate to kiss Pep's arse that they're prepared to go on record with nonsense articles that barely stand up to scrutiny. I wouldn't be surprised if they'd written them months ago.
The irony is they want to laud this title win as an act of genius whilst at the same time completely writing off the team who are almost certainly finish second as having not been a credible threat.
If that's the case, how on earth can it also be true that this has been a phenomenal title win for City? It makes no sense. Cognitive dissonance at it's finest.
That said, it's been tiring and a bit embarrassing seeing the glut of articles today on the BBC, Guardian etc. lauding this season as City's best ever. They're so desperate to kiss Pep's arse that they're prepared to go on record with nonsense articles that barely stand up to scrutiny. I wouldn't be surprised if they'd written them months ago.
The irony is they want to laud this title win as an act of genius whilst at the same time completely writing off the team who are almost certainly finish second as having not been a credible threat.
If that's the case, how on earth can it also be true that this has been a phenomenal title win for City? It makes no sense. Cognitive dissonance at it's finest.
Exactly. People here making it out as if we had pub players. We had the best players in the world as well.
What exactly is he "better" at than Pep? Serious question.
His achievement is greater. He still has more league titles to his name than Pep (won in a more difficult league and with the team he built from the scratch with incomparable resources) and our league domination was no worse than City's now, again without having unlimited cash from blood dictatorship money. English pundits would say Pep is goat based on achievements in England and 3 leagues in 4 years, while SAF had 4 in 5 years, 5 in 7 without ending lower than second and three CL finals in process (one won). Still a way to go for Guardiola to get close to Sir Alex in terms of achievement in England or in Europe, even if he goes to another one horse race league like France and racks up the domestic titles there I think he'll be remembered as a great manager, not a mammoth like SAF that single-handedly elevated a great club to the status of a indisputably greatest club in English football history.
Better at building teams? Better at working with budget? Better at man management? Better at influencing the club? Better at being successful at one club for long term? Better at working with chairman? Better at working with youngster? Better at being more flexible in football approach? Better at working with existing resources? More proven across different era? More proven at achieving things with underdogs (Aberdeen)? Better at building a football club from scratch? Better at buying bargains!
He has rebuilt this City side.
He will probably never be regarded as better than Fergie but for me, he's easily the second best manager of the modern era.
Giving City a free run at him will be a decision we will regret for many years.
Leaving aside the obvious like Trophies, which I believe Pep will eventually win more of, there are a lot of factors why Fergie will be regarded in a class of his own.
Building and rebuilding a side which is a darn more difficult job; I believe Fergie's sides were a lot more flexible in how they played.
Add to that Fergie's man management is second to none, and our sides had a certain resilience and never say die attitude.
Lastly, the money factor has to come in, right? As much as people may say that fergie spent money and we broke transfer records, our sides weren't really driven by just money. We won leagues with Obertan and Owen, reached 2011 CL final where our side was nothing special and in our last 2 PL wins, we barely had a midfield.
The thing is, we've seen how Pep struggles if the players are not his type of players - like we saw in his 1st season at City. In Fergie's case, we adjusted the play to bring out the best out of each player
Conte has more than Klopp. People should take note.
Can't believe this is a serious question. You obviously didn't try from your end.
A third of this list consists of things Ferguson was not clearly 'better at' and another third are just qualities; being better or worse at them is not inherently meaningful.