No he won’t. Only by supporters will he be seen in that light. Pundits, publications and his peers will put him up top. They are not going to denounce him because his overlords are cheats.
'Pep' Guardiola sack watch
- Thread starter Classical Mechanic
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran are here to talk about a frustrating 2 points dropped at Crystal Palace. They then discuss the regeneration of Old Trafford. Finally, Nik is joined by special guest Michael Statham from the Football Oranje podcast - who gives us a more in depth look at our EL opposition FC Twente, and then runs through the (many) Dutch connections currently at United.
Only by supporters?
So you mean by the vast majority of people who watch football
Sorry for posting twice, meant to hit the edit button for a typo but somehow hit replyYou were really pleased with that post, weren’t you?
I can agree with this view. It just rubs me the wrong way when people act as if he has invented football
You make out like he isn’t involved or doesn’t know what’s going on. He was a cheat as a player and is a cheat as a manager.
Pep has predominantly always been successful in his managerial career, at clubs which were already a success; even City was beginning to make some headway when he arrived.
That said, Pep has had that coaching gift, and the resources, to keep re-inventing, re-developing his team, moving players on, carefully nurturing younger ones and when necessary buying 'off the shelf' (so to speak) players who he knew he could integrate into his style. It is arguable also, that he has been able to get that extra 5% out of a large number of already recognised top players.
Even if City come out of this situation with their reputation intact, it's possible Pep will move on anyway, having done everything he could do with the club. If the clubs reputation gets tarnished, he will also still be likely to move on, in his career and his personal life.
In either case it may well be the case of 'shake the dust' etc. and move on.
That said, Pep has had that coaching gift, and the resources, to keep re-inventing, re-developing his team, moving players on, carefully nurturing younger ones and when necessary buying 'off the shelf' (so to speak) players who he knew he could integrate into his style. It is arguable also, that he has been able to get that extra 5% out of a large number of already recognised top players.
Even if City come out of this situation with their reputation intact, it's possible Pep will move on anyway, having done everything he could do with the club. If the clubs reputation gets tarnished, he will also still be likely to move on, in his career and his personal life.
In either case it may well be the case of 'shake the dust' etc. and move on.
Yeah, well, nothing is as annoying as other people’s opinionsSorry for posting twice, meant to hit the edit button for a typo but somehow hit reply
I can agree with this view. It just rubs me the wrong way when people act as if he has invented football
Exactly. And if he wasn’t a top manager he wouldn’t have been offered jobs at clubs that were already stacked. If any great manager gets offered a top job albeit with rumors and whispers of fraudulent activity they would still take that job. I think he knew things were going on but to what extent we don’t know. Either way he probably is covered being as savvy as he is.
He’ll never get sacked. He’ll walk on his own terms.
Oh no. I appreciate other people's opinions, I truly do!Yeah, well, nothing is as annoying as other people’s opinions
But only as long as they are the same as mine.
Would Klopp take it?
Well said.
He only got the Barca job because they wanted someone who knew the club and he used to play for plus managed their B team.
He only ended up at City because had already hired a whole load of the staff Pep worked with at Barca.
You say this as if it was sure that he'll succeed because of that.
Nobody predicated Pep being such a success, especially in his first season at Barcelona no matter what hindsight some people want to use to re-write that history. Other coaches who knew the club never had anywhere close to the same level of success, the same goes for other clubs by the way. It was a huge gamble that paid off extremely well.
After that first season, his stock was only going to get higher because it was clear that he was special as a coach.
He isnt special he simply got lucky at Barca when he took over at a time when they had a whole load of world class players that were in the hight of their prime and a Leo Messi that was one of the best 2 forwards in the world alongside Cristiano Ronaldo and could score for fun in La Liga.
That's completely backward.
You think that after Bayern, Pep was looking around Europe and went "Hey, so many of my former Barca colleagues are coincidentally at one club, better spruce up the CV and submit an application"?
Do you really think Pep would have even considered going to little City if it wasnt for all his mate from Barca already being there?
Who knows? Maybe he wanted to be City's Cryuff-like legendary manager. Barca's Cryuff-like legendary manager position was kind of taken.
Plus City weren't so little at that time. They'd won the league (so, more PL titles than the big Liverpool), were starting to make deep runs in the CL and were showing that they're here to stay.
City wanted to maximise their chances of attracting the best manager in the world. It's natural to think that bringing over his previous colleagues from a successful job to build the City footballing structure would help. And I'm sure it did. But I don't see any evidence that he would've only moved to a City if he could reunite with his old friends.
If it wasnt for the Barca contingent there is no way he would have chosen City over PSG who were also looking for a manager at the time and ended up appointing Unai Emery.
City aquired Beguiristain and a few others as part of a three-year-plan to get Guardiola after his Bayern stint. Guardiola knew at City he would get his own people, full support administratively and almost no limits economically, which of course is a very lucrative proposition for any manager in the world.
City went to those extremes because they wanted the best coach in the world, which Guardiola was considered as at the time. Guardiola could afford to quit Barcelona and take a year off because he knew he would be attractive to the best, and Bayern, one of the 4-5 strongest clubs in the world at the time, got him because he also at that point was regarded as one of the worlds 2 best coaches, if not already clearly the best.
He was considered as such because he took a Barca that was up and down between one of the 4-5 best clubs to one of the best 10-15 clubs in Europe, despite having arguably one of the 2-3 best squads, and he made them into the unanimously best team in the world for a 4 year period. Putting all of that down to Messi is pretty ridicolous. Iniesta, Xavi et al weren’t world beaters for neither Barca nor Spain when Pep started coaching them, they became world beaters first for Barca then Spain after working with Guardiola.
His legacy is severely tainted for several good reasons, but to try to minimize the effect he has had on clubs he was hired at is pretty silly.
In your opinion.
Any sources you could point to that suggest that after Bayern, Pep would've preferred to move to another one-team league where success is only defined by whether or not he wins the CL?
And if it wasn't for Pep, City may not have gone after those guys too. We just don't know.
Good point on that one. I gotta admit. His integrity was off the charts. After all he didn’t take the Disney job but he also was a club builder so that is a factor.
And there it is
How come that same squad (minus Ronaldinho and Deco) weren't dominating like they did with him, before he arrived?
I don't think you'll find any world-class player he's coached (even those he never coached) that will agree with your opinion.
Well he’s brilliant, quite clearly. But there’s truth in the ‘lucky’. He had a mad squad. Had they not won the CL/La Liga double just two seasons prior?
[just checked]
They had a shit season, but with this squad. It’s not in need of players.
Pre pep Barca
Look at their ages too. It’s a world class squad that he turned into a perfect team/club.
They had 2 shit seasons actually. And as it was clear to see also, the football they played with Pep was just different.
I doubt you'll find a single article or even post on forum predicting Pep (who never coached at top level at the time) was going to be a success. Talks now about the squad being a mad squad is nothing but hindsight, They were going to sell Xavi before Pep came and said he wanted to build his system around him, Iniesta (despite the potential) was nowhere near the player he went on to become. Same goes for Pique and Alves. Then there's Busquets and Pedro who he brought from la masia.
He even had us believe for a while that players like Bojan, Cuenca & Tello could potentially be world-class players, but we saw how that went with them when they didn't have Pep's system (the same can be said for Pedro to an extent).
I just looked as I was busy earlier. They had two bang average seasons, you’re right. Still a CL semi final two months before he joined though. They lost to United who went on to win it.
Peps opening treble is insanely impressive. Not taking away from it. But you’ve gotta concede how incredible a squad it was? They’d won the CL/La Liga two years prior and had an influx of great players.
He hardly took over a sleeping giant.
City in the mud or not....if Pep leaves he won't have a dearth of offers...that just goes to show he will have his reputation unblemished. ..but the streets will remember ala Armstrong.
To be fair, Barca had looked to sell Xavi before. Man Utd wanted him at one point and it was LVG that blocked it, saying he was absolutely brilliant and fundamental to the way Barca played. In the years before Pep came, Xavi was averaging between 48 and 54 appearances a season. So it wasn’t like he revived his career or found some gem the club didn’t appreciated. He’d been an integral part of the side for something like 8-9 years already.
He obviously took over a very, very talented squad. No doubt. But it was also a squad in transition. The key players that won the CL/La Liga double was not the same as the treble winners under Pep. He did a great job in bringing young players and phasing out others. Anyway, Barca's peak are seen to be under him for a reason.
2006 CL final
Valdes-
Oleguer-Marquez-Puyol-VanBronckorst
Deco--Edmilson VanBommel
-Guily--Etoo Ronaldinho
2009 treble winning final under Pep
Valdes
Puyol - Pique-Toure-Sylvinho
-Xavi--Busquets--Iniesta
-Messi Etoo Henry
Only 3 players of the starting 11 started in 2009, That is how much the team changed
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You missed Eto’o.
Sylvinho, Xavi, Iniesta, Henry, Messi & Busquets were already at the club too (I think). Yes the team changed. But they were there when he walked in the door. And many were there in 2006 too.
They were there in 2006 except for Henry and Busquets who both arrived while Pep was there (Henry played the 2006 CL final against Barcelona), but they were nowhere near the level they went on to become under Pep.
No one was referring to Xavi as one of the world best midfielders ever (if not the best) before 2009. Iniesta was being moved around different positions and wasn't a sure starter before Pep arrived. Messi never had a complete season and was often injured despite his talent being very clear for all to see.
Thinking that Barca team would have succeeded under any other coach the way it did under Pep because the team was stacked already, is simply hindsight.