'Pep' Guardiola sack watch

I’m not wishing for anything. I’m simply giving an opinion which I’m sure many will agree with. You don’t. Not sure why you’re getting so emotional over it to be honest.
Most certainly since it's a United forum.

It has nothing to do with being emotional. He's widely recognized by his peers as one of the greatest managers of all time, and his influence on the game in the last 15 years is undeniable.

I'd take their opinion over raging Joe RedCafé's any day of the week.
 
Apparently only bitter United fans think this and are wishing for it to happen.
True football fans not blinded by tribal bitterness can see his greatness and are just grateful to be breathing the same air of this prince, nay, GOD among men.
 
Eh I don't think he'll be associated with it that much, same as the players. They'll be cast as innocent clueless victims of the City machine. He's absolutely willingly up to his neck in it all though, and it should have an impact on his legacy, but I don't think it will all that much, people will just focus on "the football". Which in truth at least in my opinion has had a horrible impact on the sport in terms of being fun to watch, that's a massive crime!
 
Most certainly since it's a United forum.

It has nothing to do with being emotional. He's widely recognized by his peers as one of the greatest managers of all time, and his influence on the game in the last 15 years is undeniable.

I'd take their opinion over raging Joe RedCafé's any day of the week.
But you are being emotional aren’t you.

The language you are using shows it. Bitter, wishing, raging.

You have stormed in here mouthing off and made yourself look a bit silly to be honest. If you have an issue with the place being a United forum and some of the views that go with that you can always log off you know. Just a thought.
 
Most certainly since it's a United forum.

It has nothing to do with being emotional. He's widely recognized by his peers as one of the greatest managers of all time, and his influence on the game in the last 15 years is undeniable.

I'd take their opinion over raging Joe RedCafé's any day of the week.

But no one has said he isn’t one of the greatest managers of all time.
The point is he’ll have a mark against him on his time at City, although if people care about that or not I’m not so sure.
 
Pep is a great and highly influential manager, that is clear. At one point he was wearing a little flag for Catalan independence. It was a glimpse of something he believed in. But he is also a Machivellian pragmatist for whom a gig is a gig. Thinking aloud: I wonder how most people would swing if we started a thread asking; if you could go back in time, and give subtitles to SAF, would Pep - post Alex - have been the right choice for United?
 
But you are being emotional aren’t you.

The language you are using shows it. Bitter, wishing, raging.

You have stormed in here mouthing off and made yourself look a bit silly to be honest. If you have an issue with the place being a United forum and some of the views that go with that you can always log off you know. Just a thought
He’s a city fan pretending to be a Leicester fan (posting history shows he seems to only be in city related threads). Which is weird considering it’s fine to be a city fan on here. They’re an emotional fanbase when it comes to everyone not bowing down and lauding over them and Pep.
 
Pep is a great and highly influential manager, that is clear. At one point he was wearing a little flag for Catalan independence. It was a glimpse of something he believed in. But he is also a Machivellian pragmatist for whom a gig is a gig. Thinking aloud: I wonder how most people would swing if we started a thread asking; if you could go back in time, and give subtitles to SAF, would Pep - post Alex - have been the right choice for United?
Of course everyone would want him.
You'd have at least 3 or 4 more titles and stayed competitive with City if you had him and wouldn't have spent years with no midfield.
 
Pep is a great and highly influential manager, that is clear. At one point he was wearing a little flag for Catalan independence. It was a glimpse of something he believed in. But he is also a Machivellian pragmatist for whom a gig is a gig. Thinking aloud: I wonder how most people would swing if we started a thread asking; if you could go back in time, and give subtitles to SAF, would Pep - post Alex - have been the right choice for United?

Obviously he would have been. Peps the best manager in the world.
 
Pep is a great and highly influential manager, that is clear. At one point he was wearing a little flag for Catalan independence. It was a glimpse of something he believed in. But he is also a Machivellian pragmatist for whom a gig is a gig. Thinking aloud: I wonder how most people would swing if we started a thread asking; if you could go back in time, and give subtitles to SAF, would Pep - post Alex - have been the right choice for United?
I mean obviously, but it's not that simple - Pep at City works as a whole because they had built the club for him prior to his arrival, with the Txiki/Ferran duo laying the groundwork for the chequebook manager to walk in and succeed. He would have refused to work in the mess of the post SAF years anyway.
 
He’s a city fan pretending to be a Leicester fan (posting history shows he seems to only be in city related threads). Which is weird considering it’s fine to be a city fan on here. They’re an emotional fanbase when it comes to everyone not bowing down and lauding over them and Pep.
Makes sense
 
I mean obviously, but it's not that simple - Pep at City works as a whole because they had built the club for him prior to his arrival, with the Txiki/Ferran duo laying the groundwork for the chequebook manager to walk in and succeed. He would have refused to work in the mess of the post SAF years anyway.

I do wonder if he would've got Txixi and Ferran on board in some other capacity given the Glazers reticence to implement a football structure or whether he could've used them in negotiations if he really wanted to come to us.

Drug banned as a player.
Part of Barca's bribing referee period.
Part of City's 115 charges period.

His legacy is tainted whether he likes it or not

I highly doubt he gives a shit.
 
We never got to see what Pep could do with a squad that isn’t the best in the league, and then there is the blatant cheating and boring football.
 
I mean obviously, but it's not that simple - Pep at City works as a whole because they had built the club for him prior to his arrival, with the Txiki/Ferran duo laying the groundwork for the chequebook manager to walk in and succeed. He would have refused to work in the mess of the post SAF years anyway.
Pep would have improved united by far even without those structures? I mean United came second twice, you think Pep wouldn't have done much better with the same squad?

As for Pep's legacy as a coach, it will never be tainted because every reasonable person can see the influence he's had in football and even his peers look up to him as the best.
 
Agree with all of this, except the only thing that I would add is that the entire footballing world seems so intent on praising him and giving him all of this credit, whilst conveniently ignoring all of the cheating allegations against him.

The narrative is slowly starting to shift now, but it's taken fecking long enough.
Good point I was somehow too annoyed to remember there haha.

I hope the narrative does shift, I'm fully pessimistic that anything will change, but I'd take so much joy in his reputation and brand of football going down the toilet.
 
Pep would have improved united by far even without those structures? I mean United came second twice, you think Pep wouldn't have done much better with the same squad?

As for Pep's legacy as a coach, it will never be tainted because every reasonable person can see the influence he's had in football and even his peers look up to him as the best.

He'd probably fell out with Woodward, gotten sacked within 2 seasons. At that point in time, Pep wasn't this highly regarded coach who'd been successful everywhere he went. He had great successes at Barcelona, but back then the question was whether he'd be able to do it outside of Barca's structure. Woodward would've survived him because of Pep wouldn't have been seen as a sure thing.
 
Drug banned as a player.
Part of Barca's bribing referee period.
Part of City's 115 charges period.

His legacy is tainted whether he likes it or not

He spent years fighting that drug ban but yet also hired the doctor he blamed for it at Barca. Only he did he have it overturned on a technicality years after it happened.

Don't forget all the blood doping in Spain when they won the Euros and the world cup and Barca were top dogs in Europe. Which Spanish authorities decided should all be destroyed.

Plus how he fell out with Bayern's medical team to send Thiago away to Spain so he could rush him back and ruined him with a bigger injury.

He also tipped the reporters in Spain off that he was flying in for Tito Vilanova's funeral, trying to gate crash his former friends funeral with the media. Doesn't get much lower than that.
 
He'd probably fell out with Woodward, gotten sacked within 2 seasons. At that point in time, Pep wasn't this highly regarded coach who'd been successful everywhere he went. He had great successes at Barcelona, but back then the question was whether he'd be able to do it outside of Barca's structure. Woodward would've survived him because of Pep wouldn't have been seen as a sure thing.
This is re-writing history though. By 2011, Pep was already considered the best at the time and was wanted by every club but he chose to go to Bayern. Pep was already seen as a sure thing by the time Fergie left United.

By the way, my initial point was that he would have done better with the same squad that United finished 2nd with because he's a better coach.
 
This is re-writing history though. By 2011, Pep was already considered the best at the time and was wanted by every club but he chose to go to Bayern. Pep was already seen as a sure thing by the time Fergie left United.

By the way, my initial point was that he would have done better with the same squad that United finished 2nd with because he's a better coach.

Was he? There were sections of the football world who questioned whether he can do it outside of Barcelona.

But yeah, he would've done better than Moyes I think. That guy was a clueless buffoon.
 
Pep would have improved united by far even without those structures? I mean United came second twice, you think Pep wouldn't have done much better with the same squad?

As for Pep's legacy as a coach, it will never be tainted because every reasonable person can see the influence he's had in football and even his peers look up to him as the best.
Yep, not disputing that. It also wouldn't have been the domination he's had at City, and he probably would have been frustrated with some of the Woodward signings and the such.
 
Most certainly since it's a United forum.

It has nothing to do with being emotional. He's widely recognized by his peers as one of the greatest managers of all time, and his influence on the game in the last 15 years is undeniable.

I'd take their opinion over raging Joe RedCafé's any day of the week.

The tactical revolution he pioneered in the last 15 years is undeniable, and that alone has him as one of the greatest managers of all time and one of the most influential ones, but I'm not sure how City getting punished wouldn't severely stain his legacy? It absolutely will, and it already has for a lot of people IMO, since City are a soulless blood money pumped club anyways. But if that wasn't enough, they cheated on top of it too.
 
The tactical revolution he pioneered in the last 15 years is undeniable, and that alone has him as one of the greatest managers of all time and one of the most influential ones, but I'm not sure how City getting punished wouldn't severely stain his legacy? It absolutely will, and it already has for a lot of people IMO, since City are a soulless blood money pumped club anyways. But if that wasn't enough, they cheated on top of it too.
Please remind me of this kind of tactical revolution and how it differed from things that already existed?

There has been no tactical revolution in football in ages, for decades it's just a remix of existing ideas. Which isn't bad and still needs great coaches to identify which ideas fit their squad and each other best, but nothing about his teams has been revolutionary.
 
Yep, not disputing that. It also wouldn't have been the domination he's had at City, and he probably would have been frustrated with some of the Woodward signings and the such.
The thing is that OGS and Mourinho finished 2nd behind Pep. I'm pretty confident that with the same squad they had, he'ld have won the league playing a much better brand of football than those 2 did.
Please remind me of this kind of tactical revolution and how it differed from things that already existed?

There has been no tactical revolution in football in ages, for decades it's just a remix of existing ideas. Which isn't bad and still needs great coaches to identify which ideas fit their squad and each other best, but nothing about his teams has been revolutionary.
You're in denial if you want to argue against the fact that a lot of teams have been "trying" to copy a lot of the aspects of Pep's tactics since after his first season at Barcelona as a coach.
 
The thing is that OGS and Mourinho finished 2nd behind Pep. I'm pretty confident that with the same squad they had, he'ld have won the league playing a much better brand of football than those 2 did.

You're in denial if you want to argue against the fact that a lot of teams have been "trying" to copy a lot of the aspects of Pep's tactics since after his first season at Barcelona as a coach.
I mean Bayern did but the reasons for that are kind of obvious, Van Gaal had kind of paved the way at that point too. I'd say a lot of German clubs leaned more towards Klopp and the like. It definitely had an impact on Premier League clubs and i guess he really, really emphasised the tactics others were using.
 
You're in denial if you want to argue against the fact that a lot of teams have been "trying" to copy a lot of the aspects of Pep's tactics since after his first season at Barcelona as a coach.
I don't argue that teams do/did that. But I question which of these aspects were revolutionary? Most are based on the classic Dutch school Cruyff originally made popular and like @caid mentioned LvG made a comeback of that at Bayern around the same time Pep did in Barcelona.

Some aspects weren't part of that, like how Messi interpreted the false nine position, but then just look at Hidegkuti in the 50s.

So I ask again, what about Pep's tactics is truly revolutionary?
 
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I don't argue that teams do/did that. But I question which of these asects were revolutionary? Most are based on the classic Dutch school Cruyff originally made popular and like @caid mentioned LvG made a comeback of that at Bayern around the same time Pep did in Barcelona.

Some aspects weren't part of that, like how Messi interpreted the false nine position, but then just look at Hidegkuti in the 50s.

So I ask again, what about Pep's tactics is truly revolutionary?

There is nothing about Pep's tactics that is revolutionary its all just copied from those that managed him
 
I don't argue that teams do/did that. But I question which of these asects were revolutionary? Most are based on the classic Dutch school Cruyff originally made popular and like @caid mentioned LvG made a comeback of that at Bayern around the same time Pep did in Barcelona.

Some aspects weren't part of that, like how Messi interpreted the false nine position, but then just look at Hidegkuti in the 50s.

So I ask again, what about Pep's tactics is truly revolutionary?
You were really pleased with that post, weren’t you? :)

I think revolutionary is a strong word to use anywere, most revolutions didn’t really turn out to be. Neither is there necessarily pure ideas that are completely out of nothing. Cruyff as well was inspired by ideas he put to gether, as was Michels, Kovacs etc on backwards.

I think Guardiola’s most revolutionary aspect is his particular combination of possesion extremism and positional automaton tactics. When he said to his Barca team ‘I’ll take you to the last third, you do the rest from there’, he meant it in a way no coach has ever done - nor manage to implement - before. At a time when more possesional styles were seen as often inefficient and vulnerable, it was unusual to see a team go so all-in on it, systematically, right down to choice of players, and then to succeed. And then to become close to unbeatable. It did change how managers develop their styles, both in utilizing his ideas and in developing counter-tactics, so I’ll say Guardiola has had as deep an influence on the development of football tactics as Karl Rappan had with his catenaccio style in the thirties. Which is to say that in a hundred years from now, Guardiola will be forgotten (or remembered due to a doping/financial doping scandal), but people will talk about ‘the return of tiki-taka’ and point to his Barca team all-knowingly.
 
Drug banned as a player.
Part of Barca's bribing referee period.
Part of City's 115 charges period.

His legacy is tainted whether he likes it or not
Nope.
Maybe for you.
But his peers, and most of the football world will still think he’s one of the greatest. His influence in the sport far outweighs what happened off the pitch.
 
He probably was revolutionary, just not for things you want to be associated with.
Which coach wouldn't want to be associated with a football signature style though? Every time possession football or the term tiki taka is mentioned, his name is what will always be the first to come to people's minds.
 
Which coach wouldn't want to be associated with a football signature style though? Every time possession football or the term tiki taka is mentioned, his name is what will always be the first to come to people's minds.
I was thinking doping amongst other things. Doubt he wants credit for that.
 
Drug banned as a player.
Part of Barca's bribing referee period.
Part of City's 115 charges period.

His legacy is tainted whether he likes it or not
Not to mention he should be stripped for a number of his trophies. So it’s not merely taint but also illegitimate trophies which should be taken away.

Anyone who thinks his legacy isn’t going to be hurt is wilfully ignorant. That’s of course if his owners don’t bribe their way to innocence.
 
Drug banned as a player.
Part of Barca's bribing referee period.
Part of City's 115 charges period.

His legacy is tainted whether he likes it or not
This.

If City are found guilty he'll quite rightly be seen as football's Lance Armstrong.

Not to mention the bribing accusations while he was managing Barcelona.