'Pep' Guardiola sack watch

I heard he is already working on a tactical innovation that will leave all you haters in state of awe, in complete state of awe. It consists of signing Mbappe in 2024 and pairing him with Haaland in attack! Its not going to be easy, its going to demand a lot of hard work from Pep to teach them how to do things, how to attack the space, rupture of lines, etc.
 
Charles Miller said:
I heard he is already working on a tactical innovation that will leave all you haters in state of awe, in complete state of awe. It consists of signing Mbappe in 2024 and pairing him with Haaland in attack! Its not going to be easy, its going to demand a lot of hard work from Pep to teach them how to do things, how to attack the space, rupture of lines, etc.
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Ole's plan would be to say" "umm, go out and win..."
 
Apparently, our Pep contacted Pogba personally to entice him to Man City. Pogba under his tutelage would have been Pep's greatest challenge and triumph.
 
Charles Miller said:
I heard he is already working on a tactical innovation that will leave all you haters in state of awe, in complete state of awe. It consists of signing Mbappe in 2024 and pairing him with Haaland in attack! Its not going to be easy, its going to demand a lot of hard work from Pep to teach them how to do things, how to attack the space, rupture of lines, etc.
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Amazing innovation if true.

If he also gets Vinicius as a bench option for 200 m, that would really shut up the haters.
 
I really don't get the hatred for Pep. Yes, I'd like top see how he goes at a side without either total domination in a league or one without a bottomless bucket of money (or both), but to think that makes him a poor manager or something like that, is just weird to me. I think the days of a somewhat successful manager coming down from Scotland and changing all the rules are long gone...
 
mitchmouse said:
I really don't get the hatred for Pep. Yes, I'd like top see how he goes at a side without either total domination in a league or one without a bottomless bucket of money (or both), but to think that makes him a poor manager or something like that, is just weird to me. I think the days of a somewhat successful manager coming down from Scotland and changing all the rules are long gone...
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There is no doubt he is one of, if not the greatest coach in the world and if he managed the likes of Norwich or Burnley he would have them mid table imo.

The problem with Pep is he spends Billions, then still constantly moans how it's not fair on poor City if they can't make 5 subs, have to play games at Christmas etc

Perfect example was during Christmas 2020 when covid was about, he managed to get City's games called off giving them a nice little rest / training / refocus as everyone else carried on.

Genius if you are a City fan, annoying to everyone else.
 
mitchmouse said:
I really don't get the hatred for Pep. Yes, I'd like top see how he goes at a side without either total domination in a league or one without a bottomless bucket of money (or both), but to think that makes him a poor manager or something like that, is just weird to me. I think the days of a somewhat successful manager coming down from Scotland and changing all the rules are long gone...
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Same reason why there is so much hatred for Barca on here, those two lost CL finals will sting for a while.
 
mitchmouse said:
I really don't get the hatred for Pep. Yes, I'd like top see how he goes at a side without either total domination in a league or one without a bottomless bucket of money (or both), but to think that makes him a poor manager or something like that, is just weird to me. I think the days of a somewhat successful manager coming down from Scotland and changing all the rules are long gone...
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Hatred is the wrong word I would suggest, it is more about trying to put what he has done/achieved into some form or degree of context, especially when trying to compare him to other successful managers.

Achieving success at clubs that don't tend to, or don't have a history of success, is I would say, far better than doing so either with ones that do, or doing so on cheat mode, with unlimited finance.

It is the latter, to which Pep has tended to stick with as a manager, so he really isn't up there with the very best, in that context.

What Clough did with Forest for example, usurps all of what Pep has done as a manager.
Just as Sir Alex broke the Rangers/Celtic duopoly, in Scotland was better than what Pep has done, Rafa with Valencia breaking the Barcelona/Real Madrid duopoly there in Spain, is better than what Pep has done (then add on what he achieved at Liverpool as well).

So, it is all about trying to put things into perspective that is all.
 
Barcelona did not really have a history of dominating European competition and they did it under him (2 titles + 2 semifinals) so that's certainly a big achievement.
 
Iker Quesadillas said:
Barcelona did not really have a history of dominating European competition and they did it under him (2 titles + 2 semifinals) so that's certainly a big achievement.
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They won the LL/CL double under Rijkaard two seasons before and the season before Pep took over they lost in the semis (knocked out by winners)…

Both his CL wins had massive moments of controversy as well. Chelsea/Ovrebo remains the worst I’ve ever seen & then Arsenal looked set to knock them out until that ridiculous red for RVP because he shot under a second after the ref blew for offside.
 
Iker Quesadillas said:
Barcelona did not really have a history of dominating European competition and they did it under him (2 titles + 2 semifinals) so that's certainly a big achievement.
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Sorry, that's not domination. What Real have done in the last decade is true domination. They've beaten pretty much every style of football and won 5 European cups in a decade. Just in the finals alone they've beaten Atletico twice, Liverpool twice and Juventus. Not to mention their crazy route to the final this year. That is incredible and goes well beyond numbers.

Pep's Barcelona needed a corrupt official to even get to the final the first time. The whole tiki taka movement was very fresh, elegant and nice to watch at that time, but let's calm it with the "dominated European competition" bit.
 
RaddyRed said:
There is no doubt he is one of, if not the greatest coach in the world and if he managed the likes of Norwich or Burnley he would have them mid table imo.
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I strongly disagree.

My view is that the brand of football he wants to play works great only when you have top players in each position. When camping inside the opposing half, your players have to be able to track down runners and be incredibly fit to maintain the pressing.

I see this as the reason why he repeatedly fails in the CL(where the quality gap is lesser) and think that he would have Tottenham midtable and Burnley/Norwich relegated even worse than they already were.

His style of football is good to make 90-point sides collect 100 points, but this is about it. Doesnt work with sides that dont have wc players in nearly all positions and doesnt work in the CL. So I dont see the point.
 
Hound Dog said:
I strongly disagree.

My view is that the brand of football he wants to play works great only when you have top players in each position. When camping inside the opposing half, your players have to be able to track down runners and be incredibly fit to maintain the pressing.

I see this as the reason why he repeatedly fails in the CL(where the quality gap is lesser) and think that he would have Tottenham midtable and Burnley/Norwich relegated even worse than they already were.

His style of football is good to make 90-point sides collect 100 points, but this is about it. Doesnt work with sides that dont have wc players in nearly all positions and doesnt work in the CL. So I dont see the point.
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I don't see why that would be the case, plenty of managers who share certain tactical philosophies have managed without elite players in every position. In the PL now you have someone like Potter who has similarities, especially with some aspects of the positional play, and he managed to get Brighton into the top half of the table. Rodgers played a lite version of his tactics at Swansea (Swansealona), and in their first season after being promoted to the PL (after going up via the playoffs) he took heavy favourites for relegation Swansea to 11th in the league. There's a bunch of examples like this.

Guardiola is a world class manager, he would have no problem working his tactics to suit players who couldn't play the exact same way he does at City. He's constantly changed his tactics over his career, there's no reason to believe he wouldn't do the same at a club with lesser players.
 
erikcred said:
Sorry, that's not domination. What Real have done in the last decade is true domination. They've beaten pretty much every style of football and won 5 European cups in a decade. Just in the finals alone they've beaten Atletico twice, Liverpool twice and Juventus. Not to mention their crazy route to the final this year. That is incredible and goes well beyond numbers.

Pep's Barcelona needed a corrupt official to even get to the final the first time. The whole tiki taka movement was very fresh, elegant and nice to watch at that time, but let's calm it with the "dominated European competition" bit.
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These moments of fortune exist for every team. Bayern fans IIRC had complaints against Real during the 3peat, Real needed a last-minute penalty to progress against Juve and Liverpool fans might hate Ramos forever for injuring Salah in 2018.

I don't think those moments take away from the sentiment people back then had over Barca, which were precisely feelings of doom, defeatedness and hope for a miraculous survival.
 
Xanther said:
These moments of fortune exist for every team. Bayern fans IIRC had complaints against Real during the 3peat, Real needed a last-minute penalty to progress against Juve and Liverpool fans might hate Ramos forever for injuring Salah in 2018.
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Late (correct) penalties, goalkeeper howlers and accidental injuries to opposition players are not the same as a ref blatantly officiating in the favor of one team.

Xanther said:
I don't think those moments take away from the sentiment people back then had over Barca, which were precisely feelings of doom, defeatedness and hope for a miraculous survival.
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The feeling of doom comes from the fact that even if they had the perfect plan to stop Barca's tactics and executed it to perfection, Messi could, and inevitably would, rip up that script with a worldie out of nowhere. There's a reason why Barca kept winning 5-0 and 6-0 whereas the Spanish team, which was mostly Barca minus Messi kept winning 1-0 with pretty much the same style of football.
 
Adisa said:
Just an amazing coach.
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It is almost as if Pep had his players lined up in grids and practiced passing drills over and over. Van Gaal did it at United, and the players complained to the United legends that such a method was beneath them. Not the United way. Erik will probably do something similar. Whether there are complaints or not will tell us where we will be in two seasons.
 
copen1945 said:
It is almost as if Pep had his players lined up in grids and practiced passing drills over and over. Van Gaal did it at United, and the players complained to the United legends that such a method was beneath them. Not the United way. Erik will probably do something similar. Whether there are complaints or not will tell us where we will be in two seasons.
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ETH's players have more licence to drift out of their zones, so I doubt we would see such symmetry. Pep is very rigid.
The other thing that pops out is how little our CBs and GK are involved. There is almost no passing option from CB to midfield. I don't think it is a coincidence the two best teams operate a conventional midfield 3.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...4QFnoECAUQAQ&usg=AOvVaw2nKGpOb9EuSZ1905ZEcNdf
 
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Carlo Ancelloti is better than Pep. What Carlo has achieved is remarkable. Pep is lauded while Carlo Ancelloti doesn't get as much credit.
 
Andrade said:
Disagree. SAF is obviously the GOAT so let's take him out of it. I wouldn't put Clough or Jose above Pep. I don't think I'd put Carlo above him either. If Klopp wins the final, he may have bettered Pep in this country (debatable though, cos Liverpool have only one title), but it's still 2-2 in career CLs.

Jose is not the best non UK manager IMO. He was successful for a short time only and his defensive style of football is horrible and now outdated. He didn't adapt.
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Are you for real. Has Pep won leagues in the top 5 leagues. Also how many champions leagues has Carlo won compared to Pep. Do some research and come back to me.
 
Slysi17 said:
Are you for real. Has Pep won leagues in the top 5 leagues. Also how many champions leagues has Carlo won compared to Pep. Do some research and come back to me.
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Yes Carlo has more CLs but he's also managed a lot longer. Yes Carlo has titles in the top 5 leagues but he hasn't dominated any league with multiple titles. He also hasn't had the stylistic influence that Pep has had. Carlo's one of the best managers ever but I'd put Pep a bit above him.
 
Andrade said:
Yes Carlo has more CLs but he's also managed a lot longer. Yes Carlo has titles in the top 5 leagues but he hasn't dominated any league with multiple titles. He also hasn't had the stylistic influence that Pep has had. Carlo's one of the best managers ever but I'd put Pep a bit above him.
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A lot more teams are playing his Le Decima style than Peps.
I think Peps influence is vastly overrated, not many even try to copy his style while a team like Jose’s first Chelsea would be the end game of many elite clubs today
 
mitchmouse said:
I really don't get the hatred for Pep. Yes, I'd like top see how he goes at a side without either total domination in a league or one without a bottomless bucket of money (or both), but to think that makes him a poor manager or something like that, is just weird to me. I think the days of a somewhat successful manager coming down from Scotland and changing all the rules are long gone...
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He is manager of City.What more reasons you need.
 
cyberman said:
A lot more teams are playing his Le Decima style than Peps.
I think Peps influence is vastly overrated, not many even try to copy his style while a team like Jose’s first Chelsea would be the end game of many elite clubs today
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This is just false. Jose's Chelsea style? Come on.
 
Andrade said:
This is just false. Jose's Chelsea style? Come on.
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The number 9 that drops deep, holds the ball up and brings the midfield into play, fantastic wide men who act as inside forwards with width provided by the FBs? In a midfield 3 who press through midfield? Ball plying CBS?
Maybe a bit overly defensive due to Jose but that’s a perfect, modern team who existed almost 20 years ago imo.
Just look at who Liverpool are linked with today and how they’ll play next season.
 
Feels weird saying this a week after he’s won his 4th CL but Ancelotti is becoming wildly overrated. Doesn’t belong in conversations about the best manager ever for me while Pep definitely does.
 
cyberman said:
The number 9 that drops deep, holds the ball up and brings the midfield into play, fantastic wide men who act as inside forwards with width provided by the FBs? In a midfield 3 who press through midfield? Ball plying CBS?
Maybe a bit overly defensive due to Jose but that’s a perfect, modern team who existed almost 20 years ago imo.
Just look at who Liverpool are linked with today and how they’ll play next season.
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I wouldn't say Mourinho's Chelsea side is the blueprint for elite sides today, there's too many fundamental differences. They didn't really play anything like how this current Liverpool sides play. They were a very vertical side, Drogba would isolate one of the opposing CBs and dominate aerially, winning flick ons and the like. While he did drop deeper that was mainly to facilitiate Lampard getting into the box, functioning as a second striker. While both fullbacks did overlap Mourinho always ensured one fullback was far more reserved than the other positionally (something which is usually a constant of his sides). Two of the biggest differences is that Chelsea side didn't really have a commitment to playing it out from the back, Cech was never anything special with the ball at his feet, and while both CBs were comfortable in that area they played a lot of long balls, the other difference is how the side functioned off the ball. Most elite teams today will employ some form of a pressing game, whereas Mourinho was very happy to employ a deep line and get players behind the ball, including the wingers. While they could press higher, certainly in midfield due to the numerical superiority they had at the time, it's night and day to the system Liverpool employ.

Mourinho's first Chelsea side was revolutionary (in the prem) at the time, it functioned completely different to this Liverpool side.
 
cyberman said:
The number 9 that drops deep, holds the ball up and brings the midfield into play, fantastic wide men who act as inside forwards with width provided by the FBs? In a midfield 3 who press through midfield? Ball plying CBS?
Maybe a bit overly defensive due to Jose but that’s a perfect, modern team who existed almost 20 years ago imo.
Just look at who Liverpool are linked with today and how they’ll play next season.
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Indeed it does sound like a perfect modern team. The problem is that you haven't actually described Mourinho's Chelsea team.
 
The way Madrid play makes me sceptical about Carlo's influence. The players just look like they're doing what they've always done, but then again it's the second CL now he's won with the same players.

I've no idea where his influence is. Maybe it's man-management, maybe it's making them play in a way that is least obstructive to their skills, maybe it's calmness that simmers down into his players... Honestly, no idea. Maybe we need an Amazon-style documentary to get it.
 
Without looking but City surely have the sh*ttest record against Liverpool out of the top 4 ?
They just always seem to get beat by them.
 
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