That's not necessarily a bad personality trait, in moderate and perhaps even extreme doses it could prove to be intensely conducive for success.
Just look at the likes of Michael Jordan and the likes.
'Pep' Guardiola sack watch
- Thread starter Classical Mechanic
- Start date
Just look at the likes of Michael Jordan and the likes.
The voice now says "YOU'LL MAKE IT WITH HAALAND"
Asked a simple question from a journo about his players bouncing back from Madrid disappointment and turns it into a lengthy (boring) dig. What's all this "when I played against them ... and destroyed them" - presume he means his players. Even the choice of word "destroyed" is a clear sign of how much peoples comments bother him about only winning CL with the greatest club team of all time.
Skriking bald druggie.
I kind of feel this lacks context. Its the same stick people have been beating him with for years. Its the same with the only 2 managers have won more champions leagues than him. Has there been a single season in them 13 years where he hasn't had one of the best teams in europe?
He improved Barcelona and deserves credit for promoting Busquets but it was an immense squad filled with basically Spains golden generation. Moved to a team who'd just won the champions league and somehow looked even better than that Barcelona team. Then moved to City who'd won the league twice maybe in 5 years before he showed up and spent a billion on players.
I dont think ancelotti has had 13 years with players as good as guardiola. Maybe if you cherry pick individual years across his career but he usually has to make do with whatever is there and deal with Milan presidents insisting on playing 2 strikers and other nonsense.
He's a great manager but he's had an atypical career. Its kind of hard to compare him to most others. Modern football just feels very different to even 20 years ago and i expect its basically unrecognisable from 40+ so Clough comparisons seem meaningless. Barcelona was a bit of a goldmine to walk into too.
Zidane gets similar skepticism and they'll both continue to get it until they prove otherwise basically.
Rijkaard had the same and lost to Ferguson just a year prior
Mendy who is in jail, Haaland who has yet to play a single minute and even Kayky?
And he has beaten them too many times. Are you expecting them not to have won any game vs Pep? Pep probably has a better head to head than most of them
Would think Messi has been winning every season since Pep left. Messi was in the team that got destroyed 7-0, 8-2 by Bayern, 4-0 by Liverpool, 4-1 by PSG, 3-0 by Roma
Not from me, I think it's illogical to question either of them. They don't have to prove anything, what they've already achieved is ridiculously impressive.
But actually, you've got me thinking by conflating those two. The issue seems to be that they started at the top. But it's not their fault that they were both top players who were therefore fast tracked into coaching jobs at big clubs that they played for. That's what happens if you're a top player. Many of the other managers we are discussing were rubbish players so they didn't have that advantage.
However, just because you start at a Real Madrid or Barca level club, that doesn't mean it is easy (just ask Andrea Pirlo). On the contrary, I think that's way harder than starting at some small club that you can learn your trade at in relative peace and quiet. These guys have taken on extraordinarily difficult jobs and excelled to an unprecedented degree. I'm not sure why people are so convinced that anyone could do it.
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I thought he answered that well enough. I know what he's trying to say and he actually kept his cool too.
Again, $100 payable to anyone who can dig up a post from 2008 (before the beginning of the 08-09 season) predicting Guardiola's success.
I just built two functional teams. It’s not about how City play. It’s about proving they had (with Torres) or will have (with Haaland), two 11s perfectly capable of challenging for top 4. And they do. It’s not a myth.
Mendy still cost 52 million and was part of his “project”, so yeah, definitely putting him down. Other teams wouldn’t have the luxury of being able to do without such an expensive defender being sidelined for so long. As it is, they had a 40+ million defender they didn’t even bother using there.
Ferran Torres was only sold in January, so either put him down or his replacement in Haaland. I am not going to say he didn’t have a player there when he only went 4-5 months without one.
So yeah, one youth player to make two full teams that could compete for the top 4. Choose who you like for that last spot from their ultra expensive academy, McAtee, Palmer etc…
This is all BEFORE he inevitably spends more in the summer on another midfielder and another fullback.
“He can’t field two 11s cause it would mean fielding ONE youth player”
I’m sorry, his bench is always stacked, and always has been ever since his second season. He has never won the league without having the very best squad. Greater managers have done.
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I just built two functional teams. It’s not about how City play. It’s about proving they had (with Torres) or will have (with Haaland), two 11s perfectly capable of challenging for top 4. And they do. It’s not a myth.
Mendy still cost 52 million and was part of his “project”, so yeah, definitely putting him down. Other teams wouldn’t have the luxury of being able to do without such an expensive defender being sidelined for so long. As it is, they had a 40+ million defender they didn’t even bother using there.
Ferran Torres was only sold in January, so either put him down or his replacement in Haaland. I am not going to say he didn’t have a player there when he only went 4-5 months without one.
So yeah, one youth player to make two full teams that could compete for the top 4. Choose who you like for that last spot from their ultra expensive academy, McAtee, Palmer etc…
This is all BEFORE he inevitably spends more in the summer on another midfielder and another fullback.
“He can’t field two 11s cause it would mean fielding ONE youth player”
I’m sorry, his bench is always stacked, and always has been ever since his second season. He has never won the league without having the very best squad. Greater managers have done.
In the decisive part of the season was he able to select Mendy Ferran or Haaland? Was any of these eligible for selection? In which world does a player who was sold or a player yet to be signed gets counted for?
When you list Man Utd squad, do you list Greenwood, Martial DvB and those players you will sign next season?
Would list them, absolutely. United planned the season with, and invested in, those players. Just like City started the season with Ferran/Mendy and the fortune they spent on them.
Would you also list the players coming in next season(Haaland) as part of United squad this season?
No, but like I said, take him out and put Ferran in if you prefer. The fact that they went without a second team option for 4 months to wait for Haaland means little.
They started the season with, and played, Mendy/Ferran in games until legal issues/injury ruled them out.
They still started the season with two teams capable of getting top 4. A luxury no other team has. When other teams lost players like Ferran/Mendy, it was lost points/games, but it doesn’t effect City. That’s my whole point.
Ferran out, Haaland in
Mendy/Fernandinho will be replaced and we go again…
Man Utd
DDG
AWB Lindelof Maguire Shaw
Mctom Fred Bruno
Greenwood Ronaldo Rashford
Henderson
Dalot Bailly Varane Telle
Matic Pogba DvB
Sancho Cavani Martial
Extra Mata
=============
Chelsea
Mendy
Azpi Silva Chrstensen CHilwell
Kovacic RLC Mount
Ziyech Lukaku Pulisic
Kepa
Reece Chalobah Rudiger Alonso
Kante Jorginho Saul
Harvetz Werner Barkley
Extra Kennedy
Liverpool
Allison
TAA Matip VVD Robertson
Henderson Keita Thiago
Salah Firmino Mane
Kelehher
Elliot Gomez Konate Tsimikas
Oxlade Fabinho Milner
Dias Jota Minamino
I think about 2 of those six teams makes top 4. City’s cost about 1.2 billion to put together officially. The distance will only get bigger too.
No team has a bench as strong or as expensive as Stones/Laporte, Ake, Zinchenko, Fernandinho Gundogan, Grealish, Sterling. People will quote figures and include players like Martial from ages ago to try and make it look fairer than it is. Officially…
It’s ridiculous that people always feel the need to defend it too. I know we all love the Premier League and Pep has lots of fans, but why the need to deny that he has such serious advantages or try to deny that City don’t play by the rules?
He has successfully won the league in every season (bar one) where he is the clear favourite with the most expensive squad. Its a good job.
Ferguson beat the Chelsea team in final that year that should have beaten Barca in the semi the year later had it not been from dubious UEFA officiating.
Pep’s ‘success’ is about as valid as Bayern’s in the Bundesliga over the past decade; on paper it’s victory, but in reality nobody takes it very seriously as it’s more inevitable than achievement, due to the disproportionate resources available to them.
In Italy or Spain or Germany, many would see Guardiola a better coach than Ferguson.
Also, the view on this board is quite England centric understandably as United is an English team.. Italians, Spanish, Germans have enough top managers to the extent that they do not even think about SAF when they are asked the best coach ever. SAF's domination is mostly the PL domination, he is not really impressing an Italian, Spanish or German with what he did in the CL.. For ex, I would say most in Spain would place Cruyff higher than Ferguson, or in Italy to Capello, Trapattoni, Lippi and others..
The disrespect you're shown him is astounding to be honest.
How do you know how Italians, Spanish and Germans think?
What you think isn't same as 3 nations feeling.
I have said in a previous post that SAF is a top-3 coach and I have huge respect for him again in the same post, does not prevent from saying that Italians, Germans, Spanish have enough great coaches in their history to not even think about SAF when they are asked the best..
No doubt that they have great coaches of themselves but even objectively looking performance wise and the money spent fergussen easily tops the list(his achievements in Scotland are extraordinary as well, still the last person to win the league outside the old firm and the last to have won an European trophy).
Now you could say that there have been more influential coaches such as sacchi,cryuff, Herrera and lobanovski and fair enough i won't argue with that.
City have been eliminated from the CL by worse sides than EL champions Villareal.
I don't know that this is a very relevant statistic in a two-legged knockout competition.
Only really Lyon in 2020.
Monaco were very good in 2017. Liverpool in 2018. Spurs in 2019. Chelsea in the CL final in 2021. Real Madrid in 2022.
Some of those losses were poorly managed by Pep, but those are good teams tbf.
Urgh. Knee-jerk arse kissing...
" It is no exaggeration to say Guardiola has transformed football. "
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/61470026
That's right. We played with a square ball, until Pep the Holy showed the unclean masses how the sunlit uplands awaited if we switched to a round ball!
" It is no exaggeration to say Guardiola has transformed football. "
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/61470026
That's right. We played with a square ball, until Pep the Holy showed the unclean masses how the sunlit uplands awaited if we switched to a round ball!
Lyon, and that’s about it really, he deserved criticism for going out to Spurs but they were a good outfit at the point. Regardless, they’ve never strolled into a final with a route as easy as the one Klopp has had this season. Or the route Real had when they beat Atletico on penalties, Christ even in the final Real weren’t having to face one of the seasoned CL outfits. There’s a lot of good fortune there.
Luck will always be a component of cup football. That’s how it’s always been. I just know that when I read this thread it all looks a bit desperate in terms of clutching at straws and desperately looking for ways to pour cold water on Guardiola’s ability as a coach and what he’s actually achieved. At the end of the day he’s the first manager to dominate the Premier League since the great man himself. Whenever I read remarks about money etc it gives the impression of him just hoovering up all the biggest names, but Haaland is a rare example of that. And I think United are a better example than anyone for illustrating the point that throwing money around doesn’t breed success.
It's not even been two years yet? It was introduced for the CL final 8 in august of the lockdown season.
And people put Pep above Jose in managerial terms......
Deary me, Jose unlike Pep knows how to win in Europe.
Every managers a cheque book manager to varying degrees. You till have to make something of the players though once bought. Pep has done it superbly. Look how much Utd have spent with VG Mourinho and Ole and won very little.
Really?! Never made it to the CL final with Chelsea (both times) and with Real Madrid - these teams had fantastic squads. Went out in a shoking way with Manchester United against Sevilla and so on.. one could argue he had as much a failings in Europe as Pep..and i speak only about the CL because Pep never participated in the other competitions as a manager.
Really??
Pep's record in European competition is shockingly poor, in no way does it merit the term "superbly".
5 European finals, 5 wins, a 100% record, please by all means put Pep's record against Jose's....
Where are Pep's 5 European winners medals as a manager??
As i said how can you win something when you are not in it?! Pep is actually leading to Jose in the Champions League as he has one more final - 3 (although lost) to Jose's 2 haha
Shockingly poor is such an exaggeration
You can't possibly believe 2 CL wins with Barça and one final with City are worth more than CL wins with Porto and Inter... Inter in 2008 had a similar status to City, and it only took Mourinho 2 years to deliver a final and to win it... Porto is something else.
Not saying Mourinho is the better coach, but his European record is much more impressive.
I think it is a fair criticism to say that the likes of Klopp, Jose, Sir Alex have had to build successful squads, often with some budget constraints whereas Pep has always been very fortunate in either inheriting once in a lifetime players or just having an open cheque book. If you gave Pep a club on the level of say Roma, Atletico or Spurs could he build that club and get them playing Pep ball AND winning trophies. I'm not sure.
Sir Alex beating Jose's first Chelsea team with literally only Michael Carrick bought for 18 million in 2006-2007 was seriously impressive for any fan, especially as we'd lost Keane and Ruud the year before. Sky sports predicted us finishing 4th that season It's little things like that when you're up against it that are the measure of greatness. Jose's Porto team and Klopp's jobs with Dortmund and Liverpool are similar.
Sir Alex beating Jose's first Chelsea team with literally only Michael Carrick bought for 18 million in 2006-2007 was seriously impressive for any fan, especially as we'd lost Keane and Ruud the year before. Sky sports predicted us finishing 4th that season
It's little things like that when you're up against it that are the measure of greatness. Jose's Porto team and Klopp's jobs with Dortmund and Liverpool are similar.