'Pep' Guardiola sack watch

I think it's two different eras. Nowadays football is just a completely different business. In my eyes, SAF built the foundation and Pep has shown how to push it to new levels.

SAF and Pep are themselves two completely different people, separated by generations (SAF is not even a boomer).

It might be a different era, it doesn't or shouldn't mean that what Sir Alex achieved should be in any way dismissed, diminished or anything like that.

Sir Alex achieved more in his time at Aberdeen, then Pep has in his whole managerial career (Barcelona, Bayern and City).

Then add in Sir Alex's spell with us, and we'll, he really is untouchable, no one comes even remotely close.
 
That argument makes no sense, a one horse race implies there's only horse challenging, which clearly hasn't been the case with Liverpool a point behind them twice. In Bayern and PSG's case they usually walk the league with no close challengers.
Who where the close challengers in 17-18, 19-20 (Liverpool) and 20-21? All those titles were won by landslides.

I'm mostly taking the piss though.
 
It might be a different era, it doesn't or shouldn't mean that what Sir Alex achieved should be in any way dismissed, diminished or anything like that.

Sir Alex achieved more in his time at Aberdeen, then Pep has in his whole managerial career (Barcelona, Bayern and City).

Then add in Sir Alex's spell with us, and we'll, he really is untouchable, no one comes even remotely close.
Aberdeen? I get it more important than Peps achievements at Bayern, Barca, and City? Just stop. Scotland kinel
 
Just means nothing, which is why I was so up for city today. Who cares. Every fan forever will say 'ye but they cheated for those titles, until they eventually sorted a sustainability rule'
 
Aberdeen? I get it more important than Peps achievements at Bayern, Barca, and City? Just stop. Scotland kinel

The fact that you are mocking/dismissing/putting down/laughing, in a way only adds to his achievements there, he literally beat REAL MADRID in a European final, please show me when Pep has done likewise despite spending billions more than what Sir Alex did......
 
Aberdeen? I get it more important than Peps achievements at Bayern, Barca, and City? Just stop. Scotland kinel
Well it’s definitely less impressive to win trophies with teams that recently won said trophies and are used to win them.
 
Laughable to compare winning the league at Bayern and winning the PL consistently while being sponsored by an entire state to what Ferguson achieved with Aberdeen/United.

In terms of the quality/difficulty of his achievements, his CV pales in comparison to Ferguson, or even Mourinho.
 
The fact that you are mocking/dismissing/putting down/laughing, in a way only adds to his achievements there, he literally beat REAL MADRID in a European final, please show me when Pep has done likewise despite spending billions more than what Sir Alex did......
He beat Sir Alex's own United twice in European finals?
 
Laughable to compare winning the league at Bayern and winning the PL consistently while being sponsored by an entire state to what Ferguson achieved with Aberdeen/United.

In terms of the quality/difficulty of his achievements, his CV pales in comparison to Ferguson, or even Mourinho.

Yup, Jose winning back to back European trophies (UEFA Cup, beating a very good Celtic side with a prime Larsson, then the Champions League) doesn't get talked about enough really.
That is a huge feat with a top, money no object club, but to do it with Porto, is just even more unbelievable!!

Pep is no where near Jose in terms of career achievements.
 
He beat Sir Alex's own United twice in European finals?

And??

How does that alter what I have said??

Pep has still to prove himself as a manager, others have proven their managerial capabilities by achieving success at unfenced or against the odds clubs, that is something he has never done, so that will always hang over his head until he proves that he is capable of doing likewise.
 
Aberdeen? I get it more important than Peps achievements at Bayern, Barca, and City? Just stop. Scotland kinel
"Scotland kinel"
He literally took a team from a country you're laughing to to a European trophy, beating both Bayern & Real Madrid en route.

And if you're suggesting with your "Scotland kinel" that it's easy to win in Scotland, then maybe check your records and see how Aberdeen have got on since he left (or before he managed them if you prefer). I'll give you a hint, in their 119 year history Aberdeen have won 19 major trophies, 10 of those came in the 7 years he was in charge.
 
"Scotland kinel"
He literally took a team from a country you're laughing to to a European trophy, beating both Bayern & Real Madrid en route.

And if you're suggesting with your "Scotland kinel" that it's easy to win in Scotland, then maybe check your records and see how Aberdeen have got on since he left (or before he managed them if you prefer). I'll give you a hint, in their 119 year history Aberdeen have won 19 major trophies, 10 of those came in the 7 years he was in charge.

Exactly!!

Those mocking his time in Scotland, are only really making the case for what he achieved even greater.

Imagine now, next season Aberdeen beating Real Madrid in the Europa League final, can anyone really see that happening?
Could anyone even see Aberdeen beating them in a pre-season friendly?

Yet this is scope of the huge achievement that Sir Alex actually did, he literally beat Real Madrid in a European final.

I really wish more people would pay their respects to how sizable an achievement this was and still most definitely remains.

Pep in his whole management career hasn't got remotely close to achieving what Sir Alex achieved in Scotland, nevermind what he also achieved with us, due to the unbelievable size of the achievements at Aberdeen.

People forget how unlikely their success was, how it really was just Rangers/Celtic domination, and the throughout of someone else being a success was basically laughable, then add on to that the neighbours on impossibility of Aberdeen winning a European trophy, then you will see the scale of which we are talking about here.

Pep can keep on winning whatever he wants, it is all a total irrelevance compared to what Sir Alex achieved at Aberdeen.
 
To be fair, despite the absurd money spent, Pep doesn't have a lot of TopTop players other than De Bruyne. In fact, his first major superstar signing has been Haaland. I mean, City doesn't have the (on paper) TopTop players of the 2018-2022 era (Courtois, Van Dijk, Robertson, Davis, Pogba, Pedri, Mbappe, Casemiro, Modric, Verrati, Messi, Neymar, Lewandowski, Griezmann, Benzema, Salah, Kane, etc).
He has built a fine squad that gets his tactics and follows his orders, winning 4 leagues in 5 seasons, always with +90 points, against the best Liverpool since the '80s, and often scoring a truckload of goals. Impressive, like it or not. Already a better PL manager than Wegner and Mou.
 
And??

How does that alter what I have said??

Pep has still to prove himself as a manager, others have proven their managerial capabilities by achieving success at unfenced or against the odds clubs, that is something he has never done, so that will always hang over his head until he proves that he is capable of doing likewise.
You're trolling with this. A coach rated so highly by his peers (and other great players who all know better), and who's had a huge influence on how the game is been played today still has to prove himself? Put the pipe down.
 
You're trolling with this. A coach rated so highly by his peers (and other great players who all know better), and who's had a huge influence on how the game is been played today still has to prove himself? Put the pipe down.

Nope no trolling, just facts, he might be respected by his pears, but his actual achievements are not on the level of what Sir Alex achieved with Aberdeen, what Sir Alex achieved there is mind blowing, I don't see why that is being put down in any way.

Pep has been on easy Street by comparison, Barca with Messi, Xavi and Inestia, Bayern and City after they basically won the finance lottery, just is playing monopoly whilst also being the banker, and taking the money whenever you want to.

Jose proved himself with his stint at Porto, where has Pep done likewise??
He hasn't is the simple answer.
 
Almost blew the title with that shocking XI for the match.

Pep's an incredible manager, but he could never replicate what SAF did with Aberdeen.

There's no comparison. SAF is unmatched.
 
To be fair, despite the absurd money spent, Pep doesn't have a lot of TopTop players other than De Bruyne. In fact, his first major superstar signing has been Haaland. I mean, City doesn't have the (on paper) TopTop players of the 2018-2022 era (Courtois, Van Dijk, Robertson, Davis, Pogba, Pedri, Mbappe, Casemiro, Modric, Verrati, Messi, Neymar, Lewandowski, Griezmann, Benzema, Salah, Kane, etc).
He has built a fine squad that gets his tactics and follows his orders, winning 4 leagues in 5 seasons, always with +90 points, against the best Liverpool since the '80s, and often scoring a truckload of goals. Impressive, like it or not. Already a better PL manager than Wegner and Mou.
But he has a lot of very good players. He can literally build 2 teams and compete with them in the EPL and probably even finish top 6 with them that's how much depth they have.
 
Nope no trolling, just facts, he might be respected by his pears, but his actual achievements are not on the level of what Sir Alex achieved with Aberdeen, what Sir Alex achieved there is mind blowing, I don't see why that is being put down in any way.

Pep has been on easy Street by comparison, Barca with Messi, Xavi and Inestia, Bayern and City after they basically won the finance lottery, just is playing monopoly whilst also being the banker, and taking the money whenever you want to.

Jose proved himself with his stint at Porto, where has Pep done likewise??
He hasn't is the simple answer.
Nothing you're saying about Pep is a fact, just your opinion.
Pep in his very first season as a coach in at the top level won everything there was to win, making his team play a brand of football that made everyone regonize them as the best. That team hadn't won anything in 2 years and finished 19 points behind Madrid, and Xavi, Messi and Iniesta were already there.

Your opinion of Pep will be laughed at by professionals (coaches and other players).
 
Still don't buy their depth being so superior to Liverpool now.

I think Liverpool can match their depth and they have a better starting XI.

After the summer transfer window, maybe that'll differ.
 
But he has a lot of very good players. He can literally build 2 teams and compete with them in the EPL and probably even finish top 6 with them that's how much depth they have.
How many times has this fake news been debunked already?
 
How many times has this fake news been debunked already?

…because it’s not fake. They were without Torres for half a season, and now they have replaced him with Haaland. Mendy was bought for 50 million, so going to include him in the squads.

Ederson

Walker
Stones
Laporte
Zinchenko

Fernandinho
de Bruyne
Grealish

Mahrez
Jesus
Foden


Steffan

Cancelo
Dias
Ake
Mendy

Rodri
Gundogan
Silva

Kayky
Haaland
Sterling

Those two teams are using players that are currently signed to City, only ONE youth player (there are many other promising talents they have bought/brought through).

This is also before any further transfer dealing ahead of the summer.

There is no myth, they have an absurd bench with everyone fit. The fact that Liverpool are finally catching up after 7-8 years under a world class coach doesn’t mean it’s not true.
 
How many times has this fake news been debunked already?
It wasn't a myth last year when he still had Mendy and Aguero. He had 20 very good players last season - more than enough for 2 squads with some players from the academy involved.
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So the man has won everything there is to win. Has won in the most competitive league in the world ahead of a team in Liverpool who in any other era would win the league by miles. In fact no teams in any era of the English league would be able to handle City or Liverpool. And he is slated as not a great mgr? It’s not his fault he didn’t get his start in Aberdeen. Christ.
 
…because it’s not fake. They were without Torres for half a season, and now they have replaced him with Haaland. Mendy was bought for 50 million, so going to include him in the squads.

Ederson

Walker
Stones
Laporte
Zinchenko

Fernandinho
de Bruyne
Grealish

Mahrez
Jesus
Foden


Steffan

Cancelo
Dias
Ake
Mendy

Rodri
Gundogan
Silva

Kayky
Haaland
Sterling

Those two teams are using players that are currently signed to City, only ONE youth player (there are many other promising talents they have bought/brought through).

This is also before any further transfer dealing ahead of the summer.

There is no myth, they have an absurd bench with everyone fit. The fact that Liverpool are finally catching up after 7-8 years under a world class coach doesn’t mean it’s not true.

You know damn well you're trolling adding Mendy, Haalland who isn't at their club yet, Kayky who hasn't played a single minute. Putting Grealish in the midfield 3 (when he's played in the front 3 all season) instead of Silva, putting Zinchenko as a starter at LB instead of Cancelo and Stones instead of Dias.
Makes one wonder if you actually watch City games.
 
Of course he’s a great manager. But not on the level of SAF, like not even close. He’s not even better than Klopp. He inherited an absurd barca team (he made them better, yes, but the talent was insane), a stacked bayern team and a city team who’s second team is better than aresenal’s first. He also has failed to win the CL without Messi so far.

World class coach, but a level below the biggest hitters for me.
 
Of course he’s a great manager. But not on the level of SAF, like not even close. He’s not even better than Klopp. He inherited an absurd barca team (he made them better, yes, but the talent was insane), a stacked bayern team and a city team who’s second team is better than aresenal’s first. He also has failed to win the CL without Messi so far.

World class coach, but a level below the biggest hitters for me.

He had Xavi, Iniesta, Busquet, Messi.
SAF won UCL with Blomqvist
Hindsight is always 20/20. That Barca team played nowhere near the level they did when he took over, and didn't win anything for 2 seasons.
No one in their right mind can objectively say that his Barca team wasn't collectively on a whole other level to the one before he arrived.

Legends like Xavi, Iniesta, Henry, amongst many others who all know better will tell you about the influence he had on them and the way they view game and how he made them much so much better, yet some of you are looking for ways to say he isn't one of the greatest coaches? It's laughable.
 
Hindsight is always 20/20. That Barca team played nowhere near the level they did when he took over, and didn't win anything for 2 seasons.
No one in their right mind can objectively say that his Barca team wasn't collectively on a whole other level to the one before he arrived.

Legends like Xavi, Iniesta, Henry, amongst many others who all know better will tell you about the influence he had on them and the way they view game and how he made them much so much better, yet some of you are looking for ways to say he isn't one of the greatest coaches? It's laughable.
Not as laughable as your reading comprehension skills apparently. Read my post again, I said hes world class but also outlined why I think he’s not as good as SAF or Klopp etc. Both those coaches have overachieved. Pep has gone into a perfect situation every time. And not won the CL at Bayern or City, which lets face it, is the goal at both those clubs. They didn’t hire him to win the german league at Bayern, some people from the caf could manage them and win it.

In time, he can change my opinion. But what he’s done so far isn’t enough. Its a lot, but not enough.
 
Anyone think he does three in a row next season? That’d be five in six seasons.
 
Almost blew the title with that shocking XI for the match.

Pep's an incredible manager, but he could never replicate what SAF did with Aberdeen.

There's no comparison. SAF is unmatched.
May be Pep had to start that lineup due to fatigue/injury? If he can be blamed for the starting lineup, he should be credited for the correct substitutions too. I know many people were scratching their heads when they saw Sterling coming in. And he delivered a valuable assist right away.

About the comparison with Fergie, I know where you're coming from. But look at it fairly, Fergie also get perfect condition at United in his later years. United was the behemoth with the most lure in England for a long time, so we were bullying teams in the transfer market just like Bayern/PSG to their respective domestic leagues. Fergie EARNED it by building United up from his early years. But Pep also EARNED it by building his sophisticated football philosophy from his debut year at Barcelona as well. Fergie's efforts granted him absolute power at Manchester United, and it brought him a perfect working environment. Pep's efforts granted him the welcoming arms of top teams in Europe as well, and it also brought him perfect working environments as you stated.

So the comparison between those two is not as absurd as many have suggested.
 
He beat Sir Alex's own United twice in European finals?
Barcelona surely is a bigger beast than Aberdeen- that’s the point. Fergie won it with a team whose resources were so much lower, and came from a much lower league. That’s something pep has never done, he’s never taken an underdog to the top. It is silly to say just cause someone is at a top club that success is given, it’s just he’s never done a coup like Fergie did for Aberdeen or Mou for Porto in that sense. Can’t deny he isn’t better then Mou at this point, although give Mou that City checkbook and I would say he could have won the CL at this point.
So the man has won everything there is to win. Has won in the most competitive league in the world ahead of a team in Liverpool who in any other era would win the league by miles. In fact no teams in any era of the English league would be able to handle City or Liverpool. And he is slated as not a great mgr? It’s not his fault he didn’t get his start in Aberdeen. Christ.
It’s just that he has never picked a massive underdog and gone to the top. That’s all there is anyone can claim. Otherwise massive budget is a pressure a lot of people couldn’t handle, let alone deliver such success.
Hindsight is always 20/20. That Barca team played nowhere near the level they did when he took over, and didn't win anything for 2 seasons.
No one in their right mind can objectively say that his Barca team wasn't collectively on a whole other level to the one before he arrived.

Legends like Xavi, Iniesta, Henry, amongst many others who all know better will tell you about the influence he had on them and the way they view game and how he made them much so much better, yet some of you are looking for ways to say he isn't one of the greatest coaches? It's laughable.
He was always driving a Mercedes is the analogy I would say, but I don’t feel anyone is saying he’s garbage. Simply that he’s never done it in ways Fergie did. That’s true, no denying it. But also no denying he’s a football guru and extremely successful. I’m sure he’ll go down as the most successful manager of all time, even though fergie is there at 48 titles.
Ferguson inherited United when we were at 21st in the premiere league. Took him five years to win the league but then dominated it for two decades.
Pep has never done that, and he most likely never will because he most likely won’t take a job like that.
 
Hindsight is always 20/20. That Barca team played nowhere near the level they did when he took over, and didn't win anything for 2 seasons.
No one in their right mind can objectively say that his Barca team wasn't collectively on a whole other level to the one before he arrived.

Legends like Xavi, Iniesta, Henry, amongst many others who all know better will tell you about the influence he had on them and the way they view game and how he made them much so much better, yet some of you are looking for ways to say he isn't one of the greatest coaches? It's laughable.
Not hindsight at all. In the 2011 final we had Fabio, Ferdinand, Vidic and Evra. 3 of those were in their 30's and Fabio was certainly nowhere near a world class player. In midfield we had Carrick, Giggs, Valencia and Park. Giggs was way over the hill at that point, Park wasn't a winger and Valencia was decent... at best. In attack we had Rooney and Hernandez. Hernandez was a decent player, but again not exactly world class. In comparison, that Barca team was filled with world class players in every position and quite frankly - numerous legends in the game and potentially the best or second best player in history (depending on your view). Certainly that 2011 season was the best one in Messi's career. Even SAF's magic couldn't counter that. In the 2009 final it was far more competitive and I do believe we could have easily won that if one or two things went in our favour. We had a brilliant start were we could have scored a number of goals and I think missing those chances basically cost us the game

Yes, Guardiola elevated Xavi, Iniesta and Henry, no doubt, but they were world class players before him. Same goes for Mascherano, Alves, Pique, Valdes and Abideal. While the new cro pof players like Pique, Messi and Busquets were supreme talents.


The problem with Guardiola is that he was never exactly "challenged". The closest thing you cofuld say is that he took an underperforming Barca team and made it into a beaast, but that's more to Rijkaard doing a piss poor job than Guardiola being an impeccable manager (even though Guardiola surely deserves a lot of credit for that). It's similar to Kovac failing at Bayern and then Flick winning the treble. Guardiola always has the best car around and even though in order to drive the best car you also need a good driver, the car in itself is more than good enough to "win" even without the bestest of drivers. That is why I consider Klopp at the moment a better manager than Guardiola - he has achieved more with much less resources than Guardiola has had in his career.
 
So the man has won everything there is to win. Has won in the most competitive league in the world ahead of a team in Liverpool who in any other era would win the league by miles. In fact no teams in any era of the English league would be able to handle City or Liverpool. And he is slated as not a great mgr? It’s not his fault he didn’t get his start in Aberdeen. Christ.
Of course he's a great but the fact you need to mock Fergie's time at Aberdeen and don't understand (or dont want to) the magnitude of his success there says a lot.
 
Done alright this season given did Barcelona a favour letting Torres go and Mendy been in jail. City and the champions league don't mix. Domestically they're a real force.

Next season they've got Haaland already and will replace Mendy and Fernandinho too. Should be title favourites again.
 
City play beautiful football though. The man is a world class coach. I was in awe yesterday of some of the football, haven't really watched them before. Much better football than Liverpool aka the greatest team in PL history.

Having Haaland in the middle is going to make them a terrifying prospect.
 
At 2-0 down he was looking like a chump. At 3-2 up you had to say fair enough, he manage to tear up Liverpool’s script and rewrite destiny.
 
City play beautiful football though. The man is a world class coach. I was in awe yesterday of some of the football, haven't really watched them before. Much better football than Liverpool aka the greatest team in PL history.

Having Haaland in the middle is going to make them a terrifying prospect.

Pep is world class. When his team decided to turn it on last night... wow. Imagine that with Haaland next season.