I assume he meant the team. They definitely have a better team and squad.
Pep Guardiola agrees contract with Bayern
- Thread starter Cold_Boy
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I assume he meant the team. They definitely have a better team and squad.
I am certainly not blaming him nor do I know his reasons for choosing Bayern. It's just that after winning everything with Barca and leaving them in search of a new challenge, Bayern does seem like a very safe option. Dortmund have done well in the last few years but Bayern are clearly the top dog in the bundesliga, with the most resources. Coming to England would have a presented a sterner challenge as more teams compete for top honors here.
Going to England is also a bit more predictable.
His decision to go to Germany will do a lot to raise the profile of German football in general. Deservedly so too.
Not safe though.
Do you think that had a hand in his decision? Why would he care about the profile of German football? Or you think, in future, he would be known as the man who raised the profile of German football?
I think if Guardiola wanted a real challenge he would have gone to England or Italy. He's effectively gone from a 2 Team league to a 1 Team league (In terms of financial power and muscle anyway).
Hell even taking something like the Monaco job would have been more of a challenge.
Hell even taking something like the Monaco job would have been more of a challenge.
I think he would be part of it.
But, speculating wildly,I think he chose bayern because he genuinely finds the German league more appealing than the English or Italian one.
He's arguably taken on even more of a challenge though because next season the expectations at Bayern will be higher than anywhere else. I see where people are coming from in that he will be working with arguably the best side in world football, but the problem is that last season they won everything. He's got to match up to that this year and he's in a position where solely winning the league title would be deemed as a fairly average season, in contrast to a number of other clubs where a league title would be fantastic and acceptable for a season.
The difficulty of the Bundesliga can be underestimated at times. Bayern generally have the best squad most years, but that hasn't always lead to them winning it. If they get off to a poor start for example and someone like Dortmund who will still have a top quality side get off to a great start, it's going to be a really tough challenge for him.
I don't think he's interested in raising the profile of german football. But I believe he likes the idea of working with the young generation of german players. I think Bayern's academy is one of the reasons why he chose Bayern. Winning titles is of course a huge part of his goals, but I'm quite sure that working with youth players and bringing them into the first team is very important to him. That's a big challenge as well and almost impossible at Chelsea or City. He sent one of his assistants to Bayern's youth teams month ago. He wanted to know about the players, so he had someone watch the games and the training and he said today that he will have a few of them training with the first team the first weeks when still some of the first team players are missing because of injuries or the confed cup.
Like I said, right now it's probably easier to win titles with Bayern, but most of his work during the week isn't solely about winning the next game. He's one of the few managers in the game who tries to improve the players' individiual abilities every day, not mainly fit them into a formation to get the best out of them. And if that's a big part of his idea of coaching, Bayern is right now clearly the better choice than Chelsea or City (or arguably german football in general the better choice than english football).
Sounds like Lucien Favre but pretty impressive nonetheless - four hours of vocabulary and grammar a day!
I'm going to stick my neck out and say he won't last the season. Somehow this is all going too well with today's announcement, his incredible time at Barcelona and Bayern's superb season last year.
I'm going to stick my neck out and say he won't last the season. Somehow this is all going too well with today's announcement, his incredible time at Barcelona and Bayern's superb season last year.
I actually like Lucien Favre and thought he would be a great choice for Bayern. Wouldn't be surprised at all if Favre takes over from Guardiola in a few years. Rummenigge is a big fan of him as well.
If Hoeness goes to jail, Pep might survive the season even if he fails to finish in the top2. Sammer and Rummenigge aren't as trigger happy as Hoeness is
. Highly doubt that'll happen though (the finishing 3rd or worse part, Hoeness going to jail isn't unlikely imo).Its a safe option, no doubt about that but at the time he made the decision, what other alternative did he have? The only top league that has great competition is the English one. 1 had Sir Alex at the helm. The other has a crazy russian who sacks managers for fun. The last is a club suddenly elevated to top status due to its mega rich owners. Challenge is one thing but no manager would take a step down just for it.
Barca to Monaco would be a huge step down. Its not the way things work in football, too idealistic. Do you think a player or manager would go to a much lower club just to have great challenge?
Of course he has things to prove.
And while bayern were the best team available, I think he should have taken up aBigger challenge. Winning the German league won't be very tough for this bayern side and getting them to keep playing quality football shouldn't either given the level they performed at last season.
What things? And to whom? Every top club looking for a manager were after him 6 month ago and offered him crazy money to sign with them.
You're doing it wrong, Balu. Obviously Barca could've been managed by a chimp and still won everything, which means Guardiola is still a nobody in football management.
Bale is a coach now ?
How many young players did he personally bring in from the Barcelona academy?
I can agree on Chelsea but City have shown intent with their elite development squad and training facilities. They have mentioned a few times that they want to make the club self-sustainable.
Taking Milan back to their glory days could have been another challenge. The club isn't flush with money right now and he could have taken a couple of years to build them back up.
IMO, the real worth of a manager is in his ability to build teams repeatedly. It is much easier option to go to a top club, flush with money and talent, and keep it going to 2-3 years. That is why I will hold Sir Alex or Wenger is a higher regard than Pep or Jose, at least as of now.
It's no slight on Pep. He can pick whoever he wants. I would have respected him more if he picked a sterner challenge, not that it matters to him.
People are playing too much computer football management games. The job at Bayern is one of the three toughest in Europe, together with Barca and Real. These are the three teams not only doomed to succeed but also to succeed in a certain style and also he needs to get along with the big wigs in management (Magath got kicked after winning the league twice, van Gaal after leading the underdogs to a CL final). These three teams are more the focus point of a whole countries expectations than any other top team.
A shitload of football legends all over the management, all with a very explicit opinion about how the game should be played, half of them in bed with some newspaper or other. Extremely well connected media all over the place - munich is a newspaper (4 major newspapers, one weekly news magazine) and media capital (Sky germany, Sport 1), and guess who the pundits at those sports tv stations are: Kahn, Helmer, Basler, Scholl... all former Bayern players. With no other top team for 200km around, they focus on FCB all day long. All are very outspoken the second they smell blood.
The clubs recent successes have shortened the time he he has to adapt the team to his style. Also, the team had a love affair with his predecessor. No, i don't think this is in any way an easy job.
Of course, he inherited a good team. He is a top coach. Should he have taken over Wigan to avoid being accused of going the easy way?
Did anyone suggest that he should have taken over at Wigan? Or did you just add it for effect?
I added it for effect. I was assuming you called it "the easiest option available" because the team works and was successful. You can correct me. What team, you recon, would have been more of a challenge for him?
Got anything to say about the rest i wrote, or did you just want to be nitpicking?
It's hard to have discussion with a guy who added Wigan and words like "accused", which were never used in the comments above, for "effect".
Why shouldn't Guardiola pick Bayern Munich?
He's a top class manager and he should pick the best choice available. All this "bigger challenge" thing is so idiotic.
He's a top class manager and he should pick the best choice available. All this "bigger challenge" thing is so idiotic.
Not more idiotic than you assuming that whether he should or should not have picked Bayern is being discussed.
Pedro and Busquets were all relatively obscure when he made them first team regulars in his first season.
Bought back Pique and slotted him straight into the first team. Found Messi's best position.
I'm not talking about you, so don't get your panties in a twist.
And anyway he's not picked the easiest option available, the expectations will be high in Bayern. He could have easily picked City or Chelsea and could've gotten an absolute fortune to rebuild the teams.
The Bayern job is very hard now, I mean how the hell do you follow a treble? he'll win Bundesliga but will be very interesting to see how his team fare in Europe. If they're back to back winners, that will be an outstanding achievement because all the top teams are investing heavily this summer. He'd have much preferred Bayern falling at the final hurdle and him playing the hero act, now it's damage limitation and trying his best not to take a team of champions and turn them into chumps.
I was quoting the other guy who said that he picked Bayern because he was such a champion of youth football. 2 players in 3 years is not that much. He also spent a lot of money on some unsuccessful buys, which are ignored.
Expectation will surely be high but he went to a place where, IMO, it will be easiest to manage those expectations. No one will expect him to win the champions league every season.
I got my "panties in a twist" because you called an opinion idiotic, when it is not. This is a discussion forum, if everything was in the purview of idiotic or non-idiotic, this would be a boring fecking place. And you are a newbie moderator, you should know better.
I'd call any opinion idiotic, if it's idiotic.
This will be a boring fecking place, if people can't seem to handle any little criticism of their opinions like you're doing right now.
Didn't Guardiola start with 9 or 10 academy players the last CL group game in 2011 against Bate? Tello, Montoya, Bartra, Fontas, Thiago, Sergi, Rafinha, dos Santos, Deulofeu are academy players who had their debut in the first team when he was manager. He brought Pique back and made Pedro and Busquets regular starters in the first team ahead of some of the superstars. Not sure if I forgot someone. That's pretty impressive, if you ask me.
Do you know how Berlusconi sees the future of Milan? Does he want to build slowly? Or just buy the next overhyped or overaged player and try to force it? It's not like Guardiola would be in control of the club just because he signed a contract. Are there actually great young talents playing for City's youth teams or are there just a couple of great buildings? As far as I know, Txiki and Soriano are in charge and try to build a working youth program. Right now (and probably for a few more years) the manager at City has to sort out the first team and manage all the superstars and the way Guardiola acted at Barca (kicking out Deco, Ronaldinho and Eto'o) I doubt he's the perfect fit for that job.
We shouldn't forget that he managed professional football only for 4 years so far. Wenger and Ferguson managed different clubs for 12 years before they settled down at Arsenal/United. Guardiola's career had a different starting point as well and because of that of course will take a different direction. Maybe he isn't interested in controling the whole club like Ferguson or Wenger, but wants to put all his energy in the game itself and the players, develop tactics further and influence the game more like Michels/Cruyff than like Ferguson. Maybe that'll change in 10 years. It's just weird to compare young, successful managers instantly with the all time greats who worked in the game for several decades, of course they'll always fall short.
Maybe if the job at Arsenal or United were available, he would have chosen a different club. We don't know. But none of Milan, Chelsea or City could offer something similar to Bayern imo.
It was a meaningless champions league game, Balu.
That is why those jobs at City and Milan are more challenging. Can we agree on that?
You are right, Pep is a young manager and has a long way to go, that is why I used, "as of now" to end my sentence.
I also never claimed to be privy to inside information of any club. I merely mentioned that IMO he took a relatively easy option by going to Bayern, when my expectation was that he would try to prove himself in a tougher environment. It was me holding him to higher standards not blaming Pep for anything. He is not my son.
So? It shows that he likes to use the youth players, bring them into the first team, work with them and give them a chance to succeed. Some of them started often enough the last two seasons, like Thiago, Montoya, Tello or Bartra this season. Some of them are still incredibly young and need a year or two. What do you expect? Make 2 players of the academy regular starters each year?
What's the challenge in hoping your insane sugar daddy owner doesn't loose patience? The challenge at City and Milan isn't "more", imo, it's just completely different to the one at Bayern. Ferguson never managed a club like that. I wouldn't hold it against him, would you?
Job at City more challenging? Yeah alright having to deal with a lot of mentally challenged players like Nasri and Tevez isn't easy I guess but a job at a club that has infinite resources in the transfer market is hardly challenging.
But honestly what kind of pointless discussion is that? His pick of Bayern wasn't challenging enough? Seriously? How about Jose's pick of Chlsea with all the Abramovich money wasn't challenging enough? How about Moyes joining United instead of staying at Everton wasn't challenging enough? Or Ancelotti going from PSG to Real?
I mean what kind of an argument are you tring to make that Pep hasn't proven he is all that good until he starts managing a bottom half team and challenge for the title within three years?
And yeah of course you have no inside information about Bayern or any for that matter because otherwise you would know there is almost no other club in the world where the pressure from fans and the press is as high as at Bayern, this job is never an easy one even with a great a team as they have now.
But honestly what kind of pointless discussion is that? His pick of Bayern wasn't challenging enough? Seriously? How about Jose's pick of Chlsea with all the Abramovich money wasn't challenging enough? How about Moyes joining United instead of staying at Everton wasn't challenging enough? Or Ancelotti going from PSG to Real?
I mean what kind of an argument are you tring to make that Pep hasn't proven he is all that good until he starts managing a bottom half team and challenge for the title within three years?
And yeah of course you have no inside information about Bayern or any for that matter because otherwise you would know there is almost no other club in the world where the pressure from fans and the press is as high as at Bayern, this job is never an easy one even with a great a team as they have now.
You mean like Wigan?
For me the suggestion that Bayern was an "easy pick" is a bit harsh on Guardiola - but there is a pertinent issue there.
The big problem with Pep for me was that he walked away from Barca when the pressure was on. Mourinho came to Madrid, improved them and turned them in to real challengers. Guardiola had one of the best sides the world has ever see, and players at their peak, as well as being a "homegrown" talent himslef and presumably understanding the club inside out. Despite that he walked away - although he obviously achieved a lot and deserved credit for it.
At Bayern he's walking in to an already great side - one which its diffucult to see how he can improve. If he wins the treble next year he hasn't done anything that the last manager didnt do. They dont need a major overhaul, nor (in my opinion at least) will the board at Bayern (who control things well) allow major changes to be made in any event.
I'm sure he'll do well - but its arguable with that squad that any half decent manager would do a good job. For me, if Guardiola wanted to prove he really is a great manager then a move to a side like City would have given him the chance to prove he can bring consistent success and build a side in any league.
People have this weird romantic idea of managers/players choosing the biggest challenge even when a better job is available. It just doesnt work that way. You pick whats the best available.
How many of you would turn down a hot chick at the pub if she throws herself at you and proceed to try and woo a fat chick gorging herself on burgers just because its a bigger challenge to try and replace the burger in her mouth with something else?
How many of you would turn down a hot chick at the pub if she throws herself at you and proceed to try and woo a fat chick gorging herself on burgers just because its a bigger challenge to try and replace the burger in her mouth with something else?
A small proof how media over here are going absolutely nuts:
local paper "Merkur" divided their sports section in "FC Bayern", "CL Final" and "Pep"
This is yesterdays output:
http://www.merkur-online.de/sport/fc-bayern/pep-guardiola/
I count 16 different articles from yesterday alone (Live-ticker "model finds fashion faux-pas", "So good was Peps german" etc)
Back to football...
Pep brings a staff of 4:
Domènec Torrent: Assistant coach, game analyser, video coach
Manel Estiarte: Water polo olympic champion 1996. Close friend and advisor
Carles Planchart: Scout
Lorenzo Buenaventura: Physio. Only non-Catalan
local paper "Merkur" divided their sports section in "FC Bayern", "CL Final" and "Pep"
This is yesterdays output:
http://www.merkur-online.de/sport/fc-bayern/pep-guardiola/
I count 16 different articles from yesterday alone
(Live-ticker "model finds fashion faux-pas", "So good was Peps german" etc)Back to football...
Pep brings a staff of 4:
Domènec Torrent: Assistant coach, game analyser, video coach
Manel Estiarte: Water polo olympic champion 1996. Close friend and advisor
Carles Planchart: Scout
Lorenzo Buenaventura: Physio. Only non-Catalan
Chalobah, Hutchinson, Lukaku, McEachran etc. made some useless appearances for Chelsea the past season. There were a few from City too. That doesn't mean jack shit. What did you expect Chelsea and City to do? Give them games in CL encounters when they were fighting for their lives to make the next stage? Did Pep do that?
You cannot hold everyone to Roman's standard. City's owners have not shown impatience like him. Mancini was a clown, who constantly bemoaned the players and the management in public, he rightly got the sack. Also it's easy to blame the sugar daddies for investing money in a club from our soap box being United or Bayern fans. If our teams were tethering in the 10th spot, our morning players would include wishes that a sugar daddy graces our club.
Bayern is a top club, one of the top teams in the world, ofcourse there is a challenge to keep them there. But they also play in a one team league, so the challenge is relatively easier. Whether you or your Bayern posse wants to believe it or not is another matter.
Sir Alex continued to build teams and win with them for 26 years, which is the biggest challenge. Hold it against him at your own peril.
People have this weird romantic idea of managers/players choosing the biggest challenge even when a better job is available. It just doesnt work that way. You pick whats the best available.
How many of you would turn down a hot chick at the pub if she throws herself at you and proceed to try and woo a fat chick gorging herself on burgers just because its a bigger challenge to try and replace the burger in her mouth with something else?
Far easier than you would imagine.