Peaches and a GOAT Draft

Joga Bonito said:


Probably the most underrated GOAT in these drafts if you ask me, can't believe he was rated at 115m for instance although it's probably a fair reflection given how he tends to be viewed around here (not just in the drafts but also in redcafe in general probably).
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I think the 115m was fair and the pricing in general has been very well done imo. Charlton looks worse in the pricing because Neeskens is directly above him, who I don‘t consider superior at all, I don‘t even think he is superior to the midfielders rated with 90m.

Dunno if that is just my view, but he seems to be the odd one out in that list. Never thought the drafters believe he is much better than Redondo or Breitner, but maybe I was wrong all along?
 
Don Alfredo said:
I think the 115m was fair and the pricing in general has been very well done imo. Charlton looks worse in the pricing because Neeskens is directly above him, who I don‘t consider superior at all, I don‘t even think he is superior to the midfielders rated with 90m.

Dunno if that is just my view, but he seems to be the odd one out in that list. Never thought the drafters believe he is much better than Redondo or Breitner, but maybe I was wrong all along?
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Might just be me but I personally rate Charlton closer to the 150m bracket amongst the likes of Best, Romario, Puskas, Zico, Platini, Eusebio tier which seems fair by my reckoning. But chances are he wouldn't have been picked up at that price, which is what I meant by him being rated 'rightly' according to the draft market value.
 
Don Alfredo said:
I think the 115m was fair and the pricing in general has been very well done imo. Charlton looks worse in the pricing because Neeskens is directly above him, who I don‘t consider superior at all, I don‘t even think he is superior to the midfielders rated with 90m.

Dunno if that is just my view, but he seems to be the odd one out in that list. Never thought the drafters believe he is much better than Redondo or Breitner, but maybe I was wrong all along?
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Neeskens is for some reason always very highly rated as a midfielder here though I agree he was slightly overpriced.

Charlton on the other hand is not deemed to be as big a match winner here.. People always pick a Zico or a Zidane above him even though I don’t think he is any less if not better than both
 
Joga Bonito said:


Probably the most underrated GOAT in these drafts if you ask me, can't believe he was rated at 115m for instance although it's probably a fair reflection given how he tends to be viewed around here (not just in the drafts but also in redcafe in general probably).
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Thought him, law, Henry, Figo, scirea and makelele were all underrated.

On the other hand, I think the value for all the fullbacks was too high.
 
MJJ said:
Thought him, law, Henry, Figo, scirea and makelele were all underrated.

On the other hand, I think the value for all the fullbacks was too high.
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With respect to the full-backs the problem with a few of them is that they are viewed as having the attacking abilities of a winger but at the same time being able to produce a consummate defensive display even when up against Best. That's why a were so expensive
 
Moby said:
Not sure what was the need to replace ADP with Rivaldo there. Much preferred the former in that setup in terms of synergy with Batigol and Maradona. Looked a really beautiful front 3, which now would probably need a lot more thought on how it would function.
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Absolutely agree there was no need to upgrade ADP but I felt that about most of my team. Sure people will question Mascherano and did consider upgrading him, but ultimately I think he's perfect there as a dedicated ball-winner and whilst he's not a vote-winning name I don't think there's many who could play that role better.

But yeah, in terms of Rivaldo I think he's a superior player and imo the better tactical fit as well so see it as a clear upgrade personally. I’m a big fan of Del Piero and tactically he provided a lot of what I was looking for in that second striker role, particularly his selflessness and ability to roam and forage across the front line and into wider areas, but he was always likely to be upgraded for more of a goalscorer at some stage which is what I needed with Maradona pulling the strings. Along with Rivaldo was also considering Thierry Henry, as offers similar movement but more significant goal threat than Del Piero. Quite liked the idea of his pace as well.

Second thing I wanted was some natural width and whilst Del Piero could roam anywhere he had a tendency to drop deep into central areas whereas Rivaldo offers a far more natural presence outside on the left, particularly with his crossing ability which is something you don’t get as much with Del Piero (who tended to constantly cut in on his right foot). Rivaldo had a fantastic cross so adds a new dimension and not as worried about losing the dynamism in the middle.

Final reason is I just consider him a level above Del Piero as a player, he had a much longer sustained peak (obviously impacted by the injury) and was the best player in the world at his peak, as well as the best player at a World Cup playing this same role (rate his '02 performances higher than Ronaldo's despite the latter getting the golden ball). I'm surprised it's been questioned personally, for me it was an obvious upgrade and I think there is a realistic shout for Rivaldo being the best ever option in that left-sided second-striker position with Diego. There's probably some other candidates but can't think of anyone else I'd prefer.
 
Physiocrat said:
Whilst this should be mostly kept for the game thread and ADP wouldn't have been where I would have upgraded (though I'd have to look at his budgets etc) I do think Rivaldo is an upgrade. He's a perfect fit for the second-striker role in a 3412. You lose some creativity but you get more goals and explosiveness. Losing creativity isn't a huge loss when you have Maradona.
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Gio said:
Agree there was nothing wrong with Del Piero as it looked like a finely balanced and cohesive front three. But Rivaldo offers the same peeling-wide characteristics, has the rare experience in the same role in a 352 - whilst ramping up the overall threat a notch. Seems like a positive tweak to me.
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Cheers. Yes as mentioned above I wanted 1. More of a goalscorer 2. Who offered the same (or better) ability to play out wide.

Thought Rivaldo was the standout option.
 
MJJ said:
@Theon when are you free mate?
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Hey mate - busy all week again so won't be around too much similar to the previous match.

Maybe tomorrow? I am checking on Wed and Thurs. Which day works for you?
 
Theon said:
I'm surprised it's been questioned personally, for me it was an obvious upgrade and I think there is a realistic shout for Rivaldo being the best ever option in that left-sided second-striker position with Diego. There's probably some other candidates but can't think of anyone else I'd prefer.
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I think it's also the fact that Del Piero rarely shines in those drafts and here he had a perfect position to do so
 
Theon said:
Hey mate - busy all week again so won't be around too much similar to the previous match.

Maybe tomorrow? I am checking on Wed and Thurs. Which day works for you?
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We already have 2 games tomorrow so ideally it should be another day
 
Del Piero was great in that role and he is underrated as feck in this drafts, Rivaldo is an upgrade but a small one...theon had much bigger upgrades elsewhere on the pitch, thats was the biggest surprise in that pick for me.
 
harms said:
I think it's also the fact that Del Piero rarely shines in those drafts and here he had a perfect position to do so
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Meh, I feel that way about lots of my players and ultimately Del Piero was the one that offered the biggest quality and tactical upgrade. Mascherano and that Juve backline have never had a good run out either and there not as big vote winners as Del Piero. Easiest thing for me to do would have been to upgrade Masch but that isn't what I think would be the best for the side, even though he's not a vote winner.
 
Tuppet said:
Sure, lets do it on Thursday.

Schedule

Sunday 11th -
Monday 12th -
Tuesday 13th - Onenil vs Physio, Team Beam vs harms
Wednesday 14th -
Thursday 15th - Isotope vs Tuppet
Friday 16th -
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Whoever created this list can feck off. Almost missed something important because of this.

13th is Monday and so on.
 
idmanager said:
Whoever created this list can feck off. Almost missed something important because of this.

13th is Monday and so on.
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Sorry, bad maths. Here's a corrected list.

Schedule

Monday 13th -
Tuesday 14th - Onenil vs Physio, Team Beam vs harms
Wednesday 15th -
Thursday 16th - Isotope vs Tuppet
Friday 17th -
 
Šjor Bepo said:
Del Piero was great in that role and he is underrated as feck in this drafts, Rivaldo is an upgrade but a small one...
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Nah not having that, I love Del Piero but Rivaldo was clearly a level above as a player. I'd have Del Piero around the Totti level, world class but a level below the best of their eras. Disagree that Del Piero was underrated as well, I think he gets a fair run in these things and he's a bit of a hipsters favourite given his early years in peak 90s Serie A.

In my opinion its Rivaldo who often gets underrated. Whilst at Barcelona he scored 116 goals in four seasons, which is excellent considering he was never a striker and Van Gaal's tendency to play him on the left. In terms of achievements he was the best player in the world at his peak and won the Ballon d'Or as a left sided forward at Barca, was voted best player in the '99 Copa America with Brazil (scoring a superb second goal in the final vs Uruguay) and was the best player in the '02 World Cup (as well as also making team of the tournament in '98). I don't think Del Piero ever quite hit those heights, excellent though he was.
 
Cut it out Theon.
Taking Rivaldo for ADP is asking for a 9 inch penis to upgrade your 8 inch one when you could have actually asked for a chick instead of a bigger meat to pleasure youself alone. Happy hours on a monday is a great idea btw
 
idmanager said:
Cut it out Theon.
Taking Rivaldo for ADP is asking for a 9 inch penis to upgrade your 8 inch one when you could have actually asked for a chick instead of a bigger meat to pleasure youself alone. Happy hours on a monday is a great idea btw
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:lol:
 
Theon said:
Nah not having that, I love Del Piero but Rivaldo was clearly a level above as a player. I'd have Del Piero around the Totti level, world class but a level below the best of their eras. Disagree that Del Piero was underrated as well, I think he gets a fair run in these things and he's a bit of a hipsters favourite given his early years in peak 90s Serie A.

In my opinion its Rivaldo who often gets underrated. Whilst at Barcelona he scored 116 goals in four seasons, which is excellent considering he was never a striker and Van Gaal's tendency to play him on the left. In terms of achievements he was the best player in the world at his peak and won the Ballon d'Or as a left sided forward at Barca, was voted best player in the '99 Copa America with Brazil (scoring a superb second goal in the final vs Uruguay) and was the best player in the '02 World Cup (as well as also making team of the tournament in '98). I don't think Del Piero ever quite hit those heights, excellent though he was.
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That's true IMO, however Del Piero is very unlikely to step on Maradona's toes.

To me Del Piero is the lesser player compared to Rivaldo but much better facilitator. Rivaldo was more central at Barca and focal point of the attack, whilst here you have Maradona as a top dog.

Del Piero never wanted the centerpiece and there were players like Zidane, Nedved who became the focal point of the attack. Even Ronaldinho had to be shifted to the right to accommodate him in the inside left channel and why 02 Brazil team worked also has something to do with Fenomeno being more of a striker compared to the all conquering forward 5-6 years ago.

In essence you got the better individual player, but Del Piero is the better fit for your team IMO.
 
Theon said:
Hey mate - busy all week again so won't be around too much similar to the previous match.

Maybe tomorrow? I am checking on Wed and Thurs. Which day works for you?
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Any day other than tomorrow really as it alrrady has two games.

But if that's the only day you are free can do it too or even today. Whatever suits you.
 
Enigma_87 said:
That's true IMO, however Del Piero is very unlikely to step on Maradona's toes.

To me Del Piero is the lesser player compared to Rivaldo but much better facilitator. Rivaldo was more central at Barca and focal point of the attack, whilst here you have Maradona as a top dog.

Del Piero never wanted the centerpiece and there were players like Zidane, Nedved who became the focal point of the attack. Even Ronaldinho had to be shifted to the right to accommodate him in the inside left channel and why 02 Brazil team worked also has something to do with Fenomeno being more of a striker compared to the all conquering forward 5-6 years ago.

In essence you got the better individual player, but Del Piero is the better fit for your team IMO.
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Had Del Piero not suffered that injury in 1998, it would have been interesting to see how his career panned out. It's almost inevitable that he would have played a more central role had he continued that talismanic 1997/98 form. Post-98 career more statesmanlike than tour de force, but fully agree he was superb for Juventus ahead of Zidane.

To me Rivaldo is proven at the very top level both as facilitator and as the main man. Nobody facilitated Ronaldo better than Rivaldo. At the 1998 World Cup, Rivaldo was - to all intents and purposes - a support act to Ronaldo, but delivered a strong tournament supporting a guy who was almost a one-man attack at times. One thing that struck me about their partnership is how often Rivaldo peeled wide to open up space and deliver a telling ball or cross into Ronaldo's path. Best examples off the top of my head would be the 1998 semi-final against Holland and in the opening match in 2002 against Turkey. That instinct to stretch the play wide is something that Maradona would relish IMO, as it creates space for him to attack. As for their relationship, at Barcelona he played some of his best football alongside other major creative forces - such as Luis Figo when they played off opposite flanks under Van Gaal, or a classic central creative 10/9.5 in Giovanni who he loved playing alongside. And obviously in 2002, Rivaldo dovetailed off a ball-holding 10 in Ronaldinho as well as Ronaldo again in a unit that managed to be even greater than the already considerable sum of its parts.
 
If gio says rivaldo I m going for rivaldo as well. Classy guy unlike enigma who ripped zebec apart.
 
@Jim Beam @Šjor Bepo Please send your tactics for your game with @harms

Any preference on time to setup? I can either do morning before 10am or after 4pm.

Can anyone setup mine and @oneniltothearsenal game?

Any preference on time onenil? I'll be out during the day but should have good mobile signal. Discussing in threads on mobile is much easier than setting up a match thread.
 
Joga Bonito said:


Probably the most underrated GOAT in these drafts if you ask me, can't believe he was rated at 115m for instance although it's probably a fair reflection given how he tends to be viewed around here (not just in the drafts but also in redcafe in general probably).
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Sir Bobby would be Mourinho's no. 10 wet dream. A number 10 who's an eight-and-a-half when the team loses the ball, and a nine-and-a-half when the team has the ball. He could defend, get in the box and finish with goals.
 
Physiocrat said:
@Jim Beam @Šjor Bepo Please send your tactics for your game with @harms

Any preference on time to setup? I can either do morning before 10am or after 4pm.

Can anyone setup mine and @oneniltothearsenal game?

Any preference on time onenil? I'll be out during the day but should have good mobile signal. Discussing in threads on mobile is much easier than setting up a match thread.
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I can set it up. Let me know time preferences
 
Physiocrat said:
@Jim Beam @Šjor Bepo Please send your tactics for your game with @harms

Any preference on time to setup? I can either do morning before 10am or after 4pm.

Can anyone setup mine and @oneniltothearsenal game?

Any preference on time onenil? I'll be out during the day but should have good mobile signal. Discussing in threads on mobile is much easier than setting up a match thread.
Click to expand...

Later is better for me
 
Gio said:
Had Del Piero not suffered that injury in 1998, it would have been interesting to see how his career panned out. It's almost inevitable that he would have played a more central role had he continued that talismanic 1997/98 form. Post-98 career more statesmanlike than tour de force, but fully agree he was superb for Juventus ahead of Zidane.

To me Rivaldo is proven at the very top level both as facilitator and as the main man. Nobody facilitated Ronaldo better than Rivaldo. At the 1998 World Cup, Rivaldo was - to all intents and purposes - a support act to Ronaldo, but delivered a strong tournament supporting a guy who was almost a one-man attack at times. One thing that struck me about their partnership is how often Rivaldo peeled wide to open up space and deliver a telling ball or cross into Ronaldo's path. Best examples off the top of my head would be the 1998 semi-final against Holland and in the opening match in 2002 against Turkey. That instinct to stretch the play wide is something that Maradona would relish IMO, as it creates space for him to attack. As for their relationship, at Barcelona he played some of his best football alongside other major creative forces - such as Luis Figo when they played off opposite flanks under Van Gaal, or a classic central creative 10/9.5 in Giovanni who he loved playing alongside. And obviously in 2002, Rivaldo dovetailed off a ball-holding 10 in Ronaldinho as well as Ronaldo again in a unit that managed to be even greater than the already considerable sum of its parts.
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Yeah, all fair points. Del Piero's legacy would've boosted a notch or two had he not suffered that injury.

In terms of Rivaldo and Ronaldo indeed 1998 was fair example, although the Ro-Ro partnership IMO is better due to having Romario at the top of the attack which leaves Fenomeno to peel off him and run into channels whilst also Romario engaging the defenders to make space.

Not that Rivaldo/ Ronaldo is a bad pairing mind, probably nitpicking here and there.

For the record Rivaldo is an upgrade to Del Piero pretty much in every sense, despite not as much in terms of quality and fit to what Theon already got. Having said that - adding a bit more flair and individual brilliance is tough to turn down and still, all things considered, an upgrade to Del Piero.
 
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