Paul Scholes: Give Ole Until The End Of The Season

And that's the same Scholes who used to tear LVG and Mourinho to shreds. Tells you everything really.
 
Honestly, I couldn’t call for the sack of any of my mates and I doubt any of you could either. Yet he’s a pundit and a high profile United legend so he’s going to be asked so I’m not really sure what any of you expect?

He’s not a very good pundit at the best of times so it’s not worth getting upset over.
 
Nah, get rid. He's done a grand job sorting the squad out - get an actual half decent coach in and watch it start to function. Otherwise we can wait until Pogba, Ronaldo and Cavani leave then we can fire him and start the rebuild again! Wooo!
 
I dont know about this...

On one hand, we dont have a good replacement lined up so sacking him NOW is dumb, but hes in his thrid season now and we look worse than ever, so unless the club are completely paralyzed they should already be looking for a suitable replacement

End of the season? I'd say that depends entierly on how the next two months play out. If we qualify from the CL group and are still within touching distance of the league leaders he can stay i guess, but we need to improve massively for that to happen and we need to do it NOW
 
I keep seeing this sentiment repeated now, that he 'turned things around and proved the doubters wrong'. How exactly did he do that? The doubters are suggesting he doesn't employ a style of football that is of the required standard to get us winning trophies, which was the case. A few good results, where the performances quite often leave a lot to be desired is hardly proving anything wrong imo.

This team is so talented that you'd expect them to win a good fair share of matches throughout the season, even without a manager. Where we fall short is that next step, which is where he isn't good enough.
 
Deserves more time. Deserves more chances. Deserves more money. Deserves this, deserves that. I wonder if the sentimentality FC brigade are self aware enough to realise how ridiculous this club looks to everyone else watching how we're run.
 
This notion that Solksjaer turned it around last season is ludicrous. He bottled it big time last season, getting off scot free for gross incompetence, and looks to be doing the same again.
How being top of the table at Christmas and then 15 points behind four weeks later can be considered "turning it around" is absurd.
I guess people like Solksjaer so much they just want him to be the manager regardless of the quality of the football.
 
The Old Boys FC mentality needs to go. Mourinho had 2 trophies and 81 points second place finish (better than Oles) with the best defense in the league and it got him exactly zero credit in the bank and players like Scholes shitting on him every week. If Jose had been in responsible for that Europa League Final performance last season and the performances against Young Boys/Villarreal this one he would have been ripped to shreds but Ole is treated with kid's gloves.
 
padzilla said:
This notion that Solksjaer turned it around last season is ludicrous. He bottled it big time last season, getting off scot free for gross incompetence, and looks to be doing the same again.
How being top of the table at Christmas and then 15 points behind four weeks later can be considered "turning it around" is absurd.
I guess people like Solksjaer so much they just want him to be the manager regardless of the quality of the football.
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People are so invested in the idea of Ole, the hero who will save us from mediocrity than they are in the general health of the club. It's an easy trap to fall into really.
 
NewGlory said:
Chelsea fired Lampard for much less...
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This is not true - Chelsea were 11 points off top spot (which just happened to be Ole's Manchester United) and 5 points off 4th

We are currently 5 points off top spot and 1 point from 4th place, which is why talk of the sack is premature
 
CR7 has one, maybe 2 top years left in him. Please don't waste those. Replace Ole with a capable manager to win something.
 
Ixion said:
The Old Boys FC mentality needs to go. Mourinho had 2 trophies and 81 points second place finish (better than Oles) with the best defense in the league and it got him exactly zero credit in the bank and players like Scholes shitting on him every week. If Jose had been in responsible for that Europa League Final performance last season and the performances against Young Boys/Villarreal this one he would have been ripped to shreds but Ole is treated with kid's gloves.
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Do you really think we should have kept Jose Mourinho?
I loved that we hired him and thought it should makes a us more "winners mentality". But I absolutely hated most of the time with him! Destruktiv and ego in a bad way.
 
Sorry Paul you were a magnificent footballer but you are dead wrong.Ole is a dead duck at this stage, everyone knows that. The players need a manager who they know is going to be in charge for years.
 
Rood said:
This is not true - Chelsea were 11 points off top spot (which just happened to be Ole's Manchester United) and 5 points off 4th

We are currently 5 points off top spot and 1 point from 4th place, which is why talk of the sack is premature
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We’re 5 points off the top whilst those teams at the top played each other. I fear after next few games we’ll be lagging behind significantly which would be a sackable offence.

If that were to happen, we would need to show title winning form for the rest of the season to have any chance of challenging for the league.
 
Lappen said:
Do you really think we should have kept Jose Mourinho?
I loved that we hired him and thought it should makes a us more "winners mentality". But I absolutely hated most of the time with him! Destruktiv and ego in a bad way.
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I think Mourinho is a better manager than Solksjaer, and I don't think it's controversial to say that. I cannot imagine any club in the world hiring Ole over Jose right now. I also think the club's unwillingness to sign the defenders he wanted (including Maguire) was part of the reason for his meltdown and if we weren't going to back him then I don't blame him for wanting out.
 
The lengths Neville and Scholes go to criticise everyone and everything but their mate is embarrassing. We really need to move away from the fairytale of ex players and associates taking us back to the top. We have such a rich history but it’s time to create new legends, stop holding on to the past.
 
I'm now ready for a change and think Ole has taken us as far as he can, and I'd be (very very pleasantly) surprised if we genuinely challenge for the league or CL with him in charge. However I'm not of the opinion Ole needs to go right now; we need to properly plan the transition by identifying a stand-out candidate and allowing him to build any infrastructure he needs to hit the ground running in this job (coaches, transfer discussions etc.) rather than making a rash change that just continues the cycle.

With the squad we have there is now surely a path we could follow that ends with us competing for top honours. Ole is not the man to lead us there but we're one quality managerial appointment away in my opinion, but it needs to be handled right.

On the subject of Scholes' comments I'm therefore in agreement that Ole probably should get the rest of this season unless results don't pick up from where they are now, but unfortunately it's not because Ole 'needs time' or 'deserves a chance', it's only because making our next change rashly simply to try to save this season will probably put us further back from where we need to be in the long run.
 
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Sure Talksport had Dwight Yorke on this morning, but I turned off as I was sure he would say Ole will get it right. Did anybody listen and was I correct?
 
He's taking his pal's side. Nothing to see here.

As someone already said Paul was ripping into LVG and Jose constantly, yet Ole needs some more time.
 
Ixion said:
I think Mourinho is a better manager than Solksjaer, and I don't think it's controversial to say that. I cannot imagine any club in the world hiring Ole over Jose right now. I also think the club's unwillingness to sign the defenders he wanted (including Maguire) was part of the reason for his meltdown and if we weren't going to back him then I don't blame him for wanting out.
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Ixion said:
I think Mourinho is a better manager than Solksjaer, and I don't think it's controversial to say that. I cannot imagine any club in the world hiring Ole over Jose right now. I also think the club's unwillingness to sign the defenders he wanted (including Maguire) was part of the reason for his meltdown and if we weren't going to back him then I don't blame him for wanting out.
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You are right about most things. I think he had some magic but lost it. Still a lot better in game tactic than Ole. But his overall performance is probebly not world class anymore and it never will be again. Ole never been there so don't say I call Ole world class:0)
I would give Ole a lot more time if the option was to bring back JM.
 
@Rood, I don't think you needed to quote Scholes in your OP - your points are strong enough on their own in my opinion. I'm with you on this and reading through some of the other replies, it really is like reading the thoughts of inpatient hyperactive children sometimes. Perhaps we should limit this thread to talking constructively about how we move forward with Ole while there are dozens of other threads to slate Ole and everyone else associated to keeping him on.
 
Is that the same Scholes who couldn't stop moaning when we had LVG or Mourinho here? But I know it's too much to expect anything impartial from those ex-mates. Even Roy tells it like it is Keane can't say that Ole is not good enough and isn't the right man for the job.
 
I think last season was his chance and he unfortunately missed it which I think should have a lot of bearing on his current situation. I do feel he'd earned the chance to have a go this season with the team he built, and understand completely why the board allowed it, however, any credit he had banked has been whittled away. We have to be ruthless, like Chelsea were.

Unlike previous seasons where we hit a really rough run of form, either due to form or match fitness, he's had mostly his best team available all season, or at least he's been capable of putting out a very strong side every game. He's run out of excuses.
 
The Europa League final did it for me with Ole. He just doesn’t seem to learn. The Villa game was a warning, the Everton must have rung alarm bells and we were crap at Leicester. WTF has he and his buddies in the coaching team been doing? The Pogba comes out and says things ahve to change. Well that’s three games too late isn’t it. They seem to forget, this is Manchester United they are playing for. They should be playing every game as if it was their last one. I bet Ole’s team talks aren’t inspiring just like his after match comments. Fergy would have been fuming after that crap in Saturday, the players would have been trembling going into the dressing room after. Abramovich didn’t become a billionaire by being nice and he is a football fan, the Glazers aren’t football fans and as the money is rolling in plus Ole is on a low salary for a PL manager, they won’t care that we can’t beat Villa or Everton at home.
 
I don’t think the likes of Scholes, Neville or Rio are worth listening to when it comes to Utd and Ole at the moment as no matter how bad it gets they’re never going to say it like it is and call their mate out publicly. You can tell they all know what the real issue is but they’re just pussyfooting around it and come out with the usual shite about how we need to maintain stability or they’ll dig out the players instead.
 
He will get to keep his job until the end of the season if he starts showing himself to be a competent manager. He continues to lose, play poor football and expose himself as someone who seems way out of his depth, he will be sacked. Regardless of the board and his mates backing him.

The fans will finally have enough once they can seperate Ole the player from Ole the manager.

He could go on a mad one now and we win our next 5 games but this is highly unlikely as I think that bounce back bubble has burst. There is only so much players can do individually when the team itself has no cohesion or well drilled tactical set up.
 
Unfortunately he's had three years and his football is still crap. Slighlty better than Mourinho's but still crap. And that's the main thing for me.

He has proven he hasn't got a clue how to make us play better apart from "try harder, run more, tackle more".

I don't need another 3 years to evaluate Solskjaer. But if our very competent board thinks otherwise then by all means. It's not like they'd hire the right man.
 
el3mel said:
And that's the same Scholes who used to tear LVG and Mourinho to shreds. Tells you everything really.
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You cant take any former player / now pundit seriously anymore. They are so blind and happy with mediocracy. As if he would give the same support to any other manager who is not a former buddy
 
We've got to be one of the only clubs I can think of that sticks with managers longer than any other club. And that's not a positive, I know people like to spin it that we're a different club and we stick by managers etc but we can see where that's gotten us. Don't get me wrong i've fought Ole's corner for a long time, because I think he's got a lot of positives. However I don't think those qualities are ones that will win us anything.

For me Ole is a great fit for United in the way that he:

Really gets the culture of the club and has instilled those values in the players.
He handles the media well and always protects players.
He's changed the atmosphere that was toxic under jose to being back to a positive environment.

However, he has massive failings tactically and it's clear that either he and or his coaching staff aren't up to the job at this level. At the end of the day this is a results business and I think if you give this squad to a Klopp, Pep, or even a Rodgers (Who i rate) Mancini, tuchel etc then we'd be sitting at the top of the league. We need a manager who understands the values of the club and who'll get more out of this squad (which wouldn't be difficult given the amount of talent we have).

We can give Ole more time yes. But he's not suddenly going to become an expert in tactics and he's chosen to surround himself with people who have no experience at a high level of coaching. Which is quite frankly madness, we have a coaching staff who understand united and can get that across to the players. Which is great, but not one that can tactically out think others on a consistent basis. We should be getting someone in who has Pogba playing as he does for france, who can fix our midfield problems and who'll instil attacking patterns and defensive transitions at the highest levels with the likes of Sancho, Greenwood, Bruno, Rashford, Cavani and freaking Ronaldo we should be blowing teams away. Not to mention potentially one of the best defenses on paper in the prem.
 
NextSeason said:
@Rood, I don't think you needed to quote Scholes in your OP - your points are strong enough on their own in my opinion. I'm with you on this and reading through some of the other replies, it really is like reading the thoughts of inpatient hyperactive children sometimes. Perhaps we should limit this thread to talking constructively about how we move forward with Ole while there are dozens of other threads to slate Ole and everyone else associated to keeping him on.
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Fair enough, let's hear it then. Though I would really love to eat humble pie on this one I cannot see a world in which Ole is a successful United manager, challenging for and winning leagues and CLs. Scholes' contention is:

"But I think he deserves a chance. He has built a squad where he should be given a year, at least this season, to show that he can manage that and win trophies."

So Ole remaining at the club beyond this season is contingent on what happening this year? Top four and Round of 16? If he achieves that but the performances are as shaky as they've been this year, Leeds aside, does he get backed to bring in a midfielder or two in the summer, and then does he deserve the chance to manage that new team in 2022/23?

The fear many of us have is that Ole getting a chance to cement the good he most certainly has done in the job with one more season has (so far) meant dropped points and poor football against multiple teams we should be beating comfortably, some admittedly good results against big teams but in matches where we have ceded the initiative (nothing wrong with this occasionally if you get the results to be fair) or we've stayed solid and bored everyone to tears (more wrong with this in my opinion) and absolutely no trophies despite quite a few decent shots at some minor pots.

The squad has improved year on year, and credit is due for that, but has Ole proved he is the man to bring the kind of consistency required to challenge for the league and CL? Not for me, we could and should be doing better on that key aspect of consistency; playing good football most weeks, putting lower teams away most times while staying broadly competitive in games against rivals. This year we've had what I would call a very poor start in terms of performances and a patchy/poor start in terms of results given who we've played in our first dozen or so, so this month is make or break for our season and in my opinion Ole's United tenure. If results and performances continue on a downward trajectory work simply must be ongoing behind the scenes to replace Ole, it just must be.

On the other hand what do you need to see from us this month to satisfy you that we're on the right track with Ole? What do you need to see come May?
 
NextSeason said:
@Rood, I don't think you needed to quote Scholes in your OP - your points are strong enough on their own in my opinion. I'm with you on this and reading through some of the other replies, it really is like reading the thoughts of inpatient hyperactive children sometimes. Perhaps we should limit this thread to talking constructively about how we move forward with Ole while there are dozens of other threads to slate Ole and everyone else associated to keeping him on.
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It’s really not though. You going to tag the posters in question or just throw useless barbs around?
 
I think we need to shed our nostalgic association with the class of 92, since I feel their sentiments are holding the club back if anything. Neville is a failed manager and Scholes is a poor pundit - all they're doing here is publicly backing their mate which ironically comes at the expense of the club.

It really is a bizarre and sordid state of affairs when Jamie feckin Carragher is the voice of reason regarding what United need to do in order to succeed.
 
Paxi said:
We’re 5 points off the top whilst those teams at the top played each other. I fear after next few games we’ll be lagging behind significantly which would be a sackable offence.

If that were to happen, we would need to show title winning form for the rest of the season to have any chance of challenging for the league.
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We have by far the easiest schedule so far compared to any top team not named Brighton.

We have not played against any of the top 5 placed teams currently in the table and our record against the best 5 placed teams so far is as follows:
WHU (a) - 2-1 (them missing penalty with their last kick)
Everton (h) - 1-1
Wolves (a) - 1-0 with a very dubious call that led to the goal.
Leicester (a) 2-4
Villa (h) 0-1

2 scrappy wins, 2 losses and a draw.

if we lose points in the next three games (hardly surprising given our form so far), we can be easily somewhere in between 10-15 points after 11 just games.
 
Pexbo said:
Honestly, I couldn’t call for the sack of any of my mates and I doubt any of you could either. Yet he’s a pundit and a high profile United legend so he’s going to be asked so I’m not really sure what any of you expect?

He’s not a very good pundit at the best of times so it’s not worth getting upset over.
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He's really bad isn't he. Perfect example of someone who played to the highest level purely on ability and instinct but when you try and have them explain something concisely in a viewer friendly way, just sounds so basic; 'proper United centre forward' being a go-to phrase. He does have quite quick dry humour though which I enjoy on the longer pieces like the fan debate but then that's not really him being a pundit talking specifically about a game.
 
Bastian said:
When Mourinho finished 2nd, did he outperform expectations? I think the same is true for both, neither had us playing good football, while at least Mourinho had a plan.
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Yeah he did, we had no business finishing 2nd under Mourinho. It took the single greatest season by a keeper to get us there. What was Mourinho's plan? Try nick an early goal and proceed to have our goal peppered by the opposition?
 
Enigma_87 said:
We have by far the easiest schedule so far compared to any top team not named Brighton.

We have not played against any of the top 5 placed teams currently in the table and our record against the best 5 placed teams so far is as follows:
WHU (a) - 2-1 (them missing penalty with their last kick)
Everton (h) - 1-1
Wolves (a) - 1-0 with a very dubious call that led to the goal.
Leicester (a) 2-4
Villa (h) 0-1

2 scrappy wins, 2 losses and a draw.

if we lose points in the next three games (hardly surprising given our form so far), we can be easily somewhere in between 10-15 points after 11 just games.
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Aye, agreed. If we’re a team that’s serious about the league, which we should be, we ought to have thought these games as a must win, in order to create some breathing room for the fixtures that are coming up.

Instead, we’re fecking scrambling. We made difficult fixtures a ‘must wins’ — no room for error. If that’s not shooting yourself in the foot, then I don’t know what is.

So brining up our league position is quite laughable really, considering all of this. We’ve underperformed in the league.
 
Pool ,city to come 0 points . That puts us maybe into 7th to 8th depending on other results, and about 11 to 12 points off the top. December is the crunch time , imo results don't go the way of getting points, get through the group in CL then he's off I think, if UTD are 12 points adrift he's gone. Because it's a Momouth task to even get top 4 then. Club needs CL
 
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