Not many teams in the world can afford his price, his salary and the money his agent wants. I'm sure you know that
Paul Pogba / turned down United offer of 300k as “nothing”
- Thread starter MyOnlySolskjaer
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Not many teams in the world can afford his price, his salary and the money his agent wants. I'm sure you know that
Mate I'm not even comparing the two, this was never about bruno vs pogba, but the fact that some of you go as far as to refuse to accept he's ever been good for us . I'm just pointing out that his first season under Ole was just as good as Bruno's. Up until PSG anyways, on which the entire team started to slump. Bruno's form also faltered near the end of the season but he gets a pass because he wears his heart on his sleeve.
I just think that when it comes to Pogba, there's a different set of expectations to judge him from.
He get's analysed differently only because of his fee. Maguire the same. Difference being is that one of them has actually started to prove their worth, one hasn't.
With regard to contribution over 5 years, it's hard to say but in that time we've signed Bruno and Maguire. During their stay here I'd say they've contributed more. I'd also say Rashford has contributed more despite his poor form. I'd argue even Fred has contributed more in some respects.
What happened after that? He was great last season and season before that. Had two major injuries in both of that season. Last year most of us agreed that our title challenge was over when he got injured. Not sure what consistent performance you want when you are out for 3-4 months in a season. This is one of the reason why I am bit wary of giving him a long contract.
Also I didn't suggest all of the people hate him for things other than football. But there is a significant amount of people on this forum who would use everything apart from football to go after him. I pointed that out to one person who was calling him selfish and arrogant person, who creates problems in dressing room, and I was told not to reply to him because apparently he is an "old poster" which makes some sort of authority on this forum.
Pogba hasn't been world class but he has been far from what most here describe him as. Infact he has been one of the best player in a poor United team. In my opinion the criticism is okay but atleast it should be fair. In Pogba's case it hasn't been.
I don't think we should give him a bumper contract but I can also say he is one of the most important player in the team and replacing him will not be easy
As I said, Pogba came good in roughly Dec - Feb of this particular season and something like 75-80% of his big stats are attributed to this. And don't get me wrong he was a BEAST for this time - but, it was for 2-3 months out of 9, which is the point I am making. He was torrid under Mourinho before and then torrid toward the end of Solksjaer's caretaker reign for that season and he has never shown sustained consistency for us. There's so many games you can point to that will balance out the great games. For example for the Fulham fantastic performance, there's the 4-0 Everton loss where he had hands on hips most the game. Or for the great match he had vs Bournemouth, there's the loss to Huddersfield at season's end.
He was an absolute machine for 3 seasons out of the 9. But that doesn't make him consistent, which is my point. The really top players are consistent more than he has been.
Confirmation bias is pointing to a good 3 months of an isolated season so as to extrapolate and imply that he was consistent over the course of it - which he was not. My point is that he fails to demonstrate consistency, despite showing a couple months of brilliance in a United shirt in any given season.
And please refrain from assuming why I don't rate Pogba as highly. And don't speak for me either, I never said I dislike him.
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Whatever your personal view of Pogba is I think the fact is he's never going to be suited to the make-up of this team, he either has to play on the left of the attack or in the same role as Bruno in a 3 man midfield, neither of which are viable long term options. If we can get €70M for him this summer it makes sense to sell and invest in a couple of midfielders.
You compared the goals of each, yourself.
The point I was making is Bruno came in and was the bee's knees in a midfield that he didn't know and he elevated the level of the team on his own, and consistently for that season. Whereas Pogba has had a narrative that has protected him, i.e. "he needs a more attacking manager, he cant play with lesser players, he cant play deep, he's better with a play maker, etc". There's everything in the book about him to put into context why he's not hit the mark for us and very little of the time do people say "maybe he's just a form player". Because that's what he is, and that's why he's good for a couple months at a time, rather than over a whole season.
I compared the season. He also had 9 assists to Bruno's 13. At least we're getting somewhere though.... you're annoyed because Pogba has all these excuses and narratives, so its kinda like he has to do more to prove himself.
His spat with Jose happened after that and Pogba hasn't been the same since. Granted, Bruno arrived and made that advanced spot his own but that doesn't quantify for the constant flirting with leaving. Even fluttered his eyelashes at Man City ffs. And although he did ok last season, the best since 2018/19, I wouldn't call it great. Certainly not £90m great.
All said and done, I am actually quite ambivalent to him staying or leaving. I wouldn't be heartbroken if he stayed actually but certainly not on a massively increased wage, that would send out awful signals. I genuinely don't think he's earned it.
I didn't aim that bit at you specifically. Personailty wise, Pogba seems a decent bloke to me, but I wouldn't say he's shown us too much respect and I wouldn't say he's been worth that huge fee. Not criticising his agent when he was spouting his mouth off was a very bad move. Pogba could have spoken out about that but he didn't, that wasn't good PR on Pogbas behalf.
I'm not saying there aren't people who judge footballers on their appearance, or skin colour but not all of us that dislike Pogba do so because of his image. FFS, look at Beckham, he used to have tattoos, some bad haircuts (corn rows say hi) and wear a skirt for christs sake and we still loved him.
Agreed. He's not good enough offensively to dislodge Bruno and he's certainly not good enough defensively to be a player in the other 2 slots. We will miss his creativity and vision. Pogba at United feels like the right player at the wrong time, we didn't have the midfield quality (still dont) to cover for his defensive frailty. A real pity, I love Pogba personally and wish him well if he does want to leave, he endured probably the roughest period as a United player in recent times under Jose. He'll love playing in Ligue 1, he'll boss that league.
Like someone previously mentioned this does feel a little like the Coutinho situation with the scousers where selling their top asset has actually benefitted them as a team, however also share those concerns that we won't sign a CDM & CM that would be required if he got sold this summer.
Yeah, when we bought Bruno I think Pogba was expected to leave that summer but the pandemic changed everything. Logically we should have built towards the Juve midfield 3 blueprint but that never happened, instead Jose wanted to use him in a deeper role and then Ole has been in the situation of trying to fit him and Bruno in which is never ideal. It's a shame because he's so talented, but at this point it makes sense to sell and reshape the midfield.
Two words: Mino Raiola
Sell him, get Grealish or Goretzka and Camavinga.
Personally thought he was really good this season after he recovered from injuries etc. Scored some brilliant goals to win us points and generally performed at a good level. Seems like I was watching a different team to many of the posters in this thread though.
I'm not annoyed at anyone. I just find it hilarious that you find the two comparable in output.
And no, you didn't. You quoted me and said when Bruno scores a dozen goals were happy but when Pogba scored a dozen goals and no one says anything.
You brought goals alone into it, not me.
Yeah he had some good games as I said in a later post, definitely the best we've seen of him since 2018/19. I just wouldn't call it a great season and I don't think he's as indispensable to our future success as some make out.
Its quite interesting that all we can bring up is his one purple patch for us in 5 years.
That was down to various things, we had a fully motivated Pogba for 3 months if that. The main reason was to show people he wasn't a virus or to get back at Jose.
He hasn't shown that kind of form ever since.
That was down to various things, we had a fully motivated Pogba for 3 months if that. The main reason was to show people he wasn't a virus or to get back at Jose.
He hasn't shown that kind of form ever since.
These kind of posts aren’t actually based in any kind of reality.
I’ve no idea how some of you delude yourselves into thinking that Pogba hasn’t been mostly good to excellent for us since the minute he rejoined. It’s so bizarre.
No way on earth has he been excellent for us. Good in parts yes.
Because he hasn't. I'd say he was good in the first half of season 1, and tailed down with the exception of a superb EL final showing.
Then he was terrible in the first half of season 2, a fantastic xmas + new year, and then terrible again.
Then he was injured, granted, for most of the season. And when he came back the season after he had covid so that puts things into context again.
Him not being consistent for us is down to a mixture of his own doing and circumstances beyond his control. It is not solely his fault. But, he has by no means been "good to excellent" since he joined. That is laughable.
People want Messi and Ronaldo numbers, week in - week out. It's the same with all the fans. The scouse bashed Salah and Mane the entirety of last season, but if we remove those two from their team they finish 10th. It's the same with us, but people will only realize it after he's gone, as we did with the other great players we failed to replace along the years.
He has his faults, but and this is the big but, he'd be great in a well balanced team. He's not the type of player who shines on his own as he's not a 10, a winger or a striker.
Lost count of how many times the bolded part needs to be stated.
You’d think posters had all access passes to the training ground & knew the man in actuality with some of the over informed nonsense spouted on here.
Good to see posts like this in here.
You’d think Pogba played for Liverpool the way some froth at the mouth when it comes to him.
He won PotT the last time we won something.
We’ve got centre backs who are liabilities near our own goal btw. . .
I don't know what kind of expectations you have but I really want Manutd to fight for titles. Not battle for Europa league and top 4.
Since Pogba has come, I cannot recall any time where he has really taken the PL by storm which was what we signed him for.
Instead, all I keep seeing is excuses, the team around him is crap, no DM, he needs a Kante, not his best position.
Very few if any players have been consistent for United over the past five years. Even Bruno who has been great at times has also been patchy. But it seems Pogba gets far less leeway with regard to inconsistency than any other player in the team. To me it seems obvious that, over the last five years, the environment has not been conducive in allowing our players to perform at their highest level consistently.
Because he hasn't. I'd say he was good in the first half of season 1, and tailed down with the exception of a superb EL final showing.
Then he was terrible in the first half of season 2, a fantastic xmas + new year, and then terrible again.
Then he was injured, granted, for most of the season. And when he came back the season after he had covid so that puts things into context again.
Him not being consistent for us is down to a mixture of his own doing and circumstances beyond his control. It is not solely his fault. But, he has by no means been "good to excellent" since he joined. That is laughable.
Just picking into this further - Pogba joined on a different premise for 90m as a perceived "best midfielder in the world" calibure or at least world class so fair to say top 5 in his position. So the scrutiny is rightly far higher with him. Moreover he has had turbulent moments with the club that is solely down to him, whether you take him disrupting the team dressing room in Mourinho's second season (look at our opening match v Leicester where he decided to make a controversial interview comment, or the time he went out of his way to tell the press he's not allowed to speak to anyone"), or his spokesperson in Raiola constantly running down the club.
Also when he's had a poor run it shows more, because unlike Bruno he fails to put a tangible stamp on poor games. Bruno will play poor but get a fantastic goal or play an unbelievable pass to shadow it over so it's more palatable. Bruno also joined on half the fee, gives half the contraversey and is on less than half wages - so his scrutiny is of course less.
I'd also argue Pogba's closest comparable marquee transfer in Maguire has shown more stability and consistency in his relative position over his opening 2 seasons than Paul Pogba did in his opening 2 seasons. So I'd argue that it is possible to show prolonged consistency or more "superb" moments for a new transfer, whether you're Bruno or Maguire.
Exactly! Juve will take him back, but only if they get him for free or they get to dump one of their trash on us in exchange. PSG might be our only hope of selling him this summer or he walks free next year....or even worse, he signs a new contract with even higher wages here. Then we will be in the same situation as we are with De Gea and Jones.
A lot of the flack he gets can be attributed to his and his manager's antics.
To be honest I do not account for transfer fees or hype when analysing the performance of a player as that doesn’t make practical sense to me. The Maguire point is a good one I’ll give you that.
I would also argue that just as you describe Bruno, Pogba is also a player that will deliver one or two great moments In a game, even when playing poorly. He’s actually been criticised on this very forum as such.
I won’t get into the stuff with Mourinho as I doubt we will agree on where the blame lies in that situation. A lot of the controversy with Pogba it’s blown out of proportion by the media. If you didn’t read headlines or tweets you wouldn’t know that half of it existed.
It is not just transfer fees though - it's also the wages. If Pogba is demanding high wages, which he was and will continue to do so, he must prove his worth in that regard.
Also to be clear relative to Bruno I feel Pogba has had more matches that have been void of creativity and great moments whilst also being a huge hinderance to the team because he plays deeper which means the cost to the team is higher if he's a passenger than say, Bruno.
Now one could then say "why don't we put Pogba in the 10 in that case", and the answer is obviously, that we can't because Bruno is a better 10. Anyone suggesting otherwise needs to give their heads a wobble.
Then the follow-up might be "OK why don't we play him in central mid but give him the players he needs to perform" and the counter is "if a player is so good why do we need to make the conditions perfect for him, else he fails to hit a suitable level?" Maybe he's not actually a great player but is more of a great talent who is more a "form" player with bursts of 1-2 months of form at a time.
He’s been consistently good more often than not under Ole when fit. I don’t really see how that can be argued and we’re undoubtedly a better squad with him in it than if we sold him and replaced him with some of the suggestions on this place. The gaggle of excitement that some have on here every time there’s a hint from some dubious source that we’re selling one of our best players for less than we’re rumoured to pay on varane is frankly bizarre. Sancho, Varane and a DM with Pogba staying is an incredibly strong squad that can legitimately challenge next year. Pogba leaving to fund it is just 2 steps forward and one back for me unless you bring in a top replacement.
Because he hasn't. I'd say he was good in the first half of season 1, and tailed down with the exception of a superb EL final showing.
Then he was terrible in the first half of season 2, a fantastic xmas + new year, and then terrible again.
Then he was injured, granted, for most of the season. And when he came back the season after he had covid so that puts things into context again.
Him not being consistent for us is down to a mixture of his own doing and circumstances beyond his control. It is not solely his fault. But, he has by no means been "good to excellent" since he joined. That is laughable.
This is weird logic people apply to fit a particular narrative. Logic that has no basis in reality. How many people have bid for Lewandowski, Neur, Van Dijk, Messi, Ronaldo and so many other top players that are settled at an already top team with a long term contract recently? Does that say a lot about their quality ? Teams don't make bids on certain players because they know that the price is going to way too much and/or the team is just not going to sell, not because there is doubt about their quality.
I like how he made out 8.30am was really early to start work/working out on his insta story. Footballers.
I guess we just see things differently. I’ve watched all of his games for United and more often than not I think he’s played well and at times he’s been brilliant. I rate Bruno just a highly but they’re different players that do different things.
Bruno also requires two hard working midfielders behind him and would also struggle to play in a midfield two. It’s always good to have a team of players that compliment each other well. Of course, you can argue that Bruno is a more effective attacking midfielder. But it has always seemed strange to me that Pogba is criticised for ‘needing the right players around him’. This is true for pretty much all players.
I agree, for all the talents he possess. He cant be consistent for big period during a season. Fans expect him to carry the team through rough patches but he just didnt do that. His dramas and agents didnt do him much good either. His high isnt high enough compare to his peers like RVP. I mean in this 5 yrs, if he could carry the team like RVP (dont need to win the league, just the ways to do it) then i dont think we see fans complain this much.
In his best season which was the Ole caretaker stint, he was superb from Dec-Feb and then atrocious under Ole from around mid Feb - season's end. He was poor the following season, even despite the injuries. Last season he was good from half way mark onwards, but had a terrible start to the season.
That is obviously not the definition of "consistent"
Selling Pogba for 2 less technical but more balanced players will actually have a net benefit to the team. This is why the likes of Liverpool would own any team in Europe over a prolonged period with no star names in the middle. There is more value to an organised, balanced system than just throwing star names for kicks.
I would keep Pogba if 1) he wanted to stay and commit and 2) he wasn't asking for stupid wages. But the truth is he wants out, he has allowed his agent to constantly run his mouth to show this on top, and even if he did stay he'd ask for wages well above his worth.
i like Pogba in terms of his personality as i suspect he's great for the locker room but what i don't like about pogba is what he lacks on the pitch.
You have a guy who has all the talent and ability in the world but you never know which guy is going to show up on the pitch. Is it the world class talent that can make the difference or is the lazy guy that jogs around and does little? He's just not living up to the hype he and his marketing team have created for himself. His priority should be the pitch and what he does for the club who's paying him but it just doesn't seem that way.
now that he's shown the likelihood of resigning to be difficult, we have no choice but to sell him. We can't play the second half of the season with him spending time negotiating contracts with other clubs and being distracted and being a distraction within the squad.
You have a guy who has all the talent and ability in the world but you never know which guy is going to show up on the pitch. Is it the world class talent that can make the difference or is the lazy guy that jogs around and does little? He's just not living up to the hype he and his marketing team have created for himself. His priority should be the pitch and what he does for the club who's paying him but it just doesn't seem that way.
now that he's shown the likelihood of resigning to be difficult, we have no choice but to sell him. We can't play the second half of the season with him spending time negotiating contracts with other clubs and being distracted and being a distraction within the squad.
