Paul Pogba / turned down United offer of 300k as “nothing”

Uh-oh.

(It's from 2018)

Never one to bite his tongue, Paul Pogba has analysed a variety of topics in an interesting interview, in which he revealed that he would not consider a move to Paris Saint-Germain.

He is one of the players who has been closely followed by the French champions recently but from his words, it is clear that he has no intention of plying his trade at the Parc des Princes.

"I'm sure that I wouldn't play club football at the Parc des Princes," he told Canal+.

"I'm not attracted to that because my father and mother were fans of Marseille so Paris doesn't really fit into my plans."

https://www.marca.com/en/football/international-football/2018/05/21/5b02a0cf268e3e17368b4625.html

via here.
 
Just hope we get a good price. I'd be surprised if we get more than £50m, but let's see. Negotiations this summer have certainly been an improvement so far. Camavinga should add stability in cm (Pogba wasn't really playing this position anymore anyway) and Sancho should replace his flair and creativity. If we hadn't signed Sancho I'd be more concerned but now that that's done I don't think this is that big of a disaster.

With his contract and age and wage demands he is really only going to 3 clubs and I dont see a fee over £50m personally:

1) Swap deal with Juventus for Ronaldo - very very little chance of this happening I feel, they cant afford him this summer without the swap
2) Real Madrid swap for Varane - Personally think this is the best option all round. Give us £10m and we get Varane for free and Pogba gets his dream move too (not that I care) Varane and Sancho for a net spend of £67m, I would have been happy with that if Pogba was goin gfor £70/80m in all honesty so its a good deal
3) PSG - See this as the most likely of the three. I actually think Pogba would thrive there too, but is irrelevant to us as he didnt here despite not being awful.

Either way selling Pogba for £40m or giving him £400k a week for the nextt 5 years - thats £120m difference....considering we pay transfer fees usually over 3-5years. WOuld you rather Pogba stays or have Rice, Grealish or Kane. Not saying any of them are better players, but they all add more to the positions they would play than Pogba does to this side I feel over the next 4/5years of another Pogba contract
 
1) Swap deal with Juventus for Ronaldo - very very little chance of this happening I feel, they cant afford him this summer without the swap

I read about this yesterday in the papers (online) and I was scratching my head, because it seemed to be coming from Pogba's agent. Now he is famous for being a greedy so and so - but what benefit would he get from a straight swap deal?

In addition, if it were to happen, currently both players are nearing the end of their respective contracts, yes? So would the swap deal mean new longer contracts for them both giving them and the clubs involved more longer-term financial security? If so, is this how the agent would get some $s - Is he the agent for both Ronaldo and Pogba?
 
He had an outstanding game offensively for sure, but you have to consider the midfield as a whole - I don't think France really had control over the central areas with Pogba-Kante and then Rabiot. And I'm not even mentioning penalty kick which should've buried France and the Pogba losing ball in 90+ minutes. It was an end-to-end game, with neither team controlling the game, which you would really expect from France midfield. So my question still stands, if that was an "outstanding" Pogba performance, do we really want that kind of games at United? It's not rhetorical question.



That is true, however - with the number of star quality players at France, wouldn't you expect them to dominate most games? Also, do you think this can be replicated at the club level? Because whoever we get for the DM position (I agree it should be our priority now), I can assure you it won't mean we will dominate/control games better. We might create more chances with Pogba in midfield, especially against low / mid-table teams, but Pogba doesn't really help to control games. He's the extra addition when you already dominate the game. A lot of people seem to miss that. He's not the player to keep the ball when necessary, he's always in pretty much the same mode, which is why so many people are used to him losing the ball in 90'+ and don't see any issue with that.

Regarding the exception in the Swiss game - I chose that game because although Pogba was very highly rated player, France still managed to lose 3 goals and were not controlling the game. Which is the problem of PP in midfield IMO. Now you'll find two groups on this forum - one group will tell you it's fine because he's there to create and don't care about other stuff (basically the idea of playing AM in CM), the other (including me) will argue midfielder has other job to do as well, even if it means he's less creative/dangerous. In the end it's about winning games, not creating a platform for Pogba to shine. So far I've seen little evidence you can get both at the same time, at least for United.

Pogba vs. Switzerland:

• minutes: 120
• touches: 101
• pass touches: 92.3%
• chances created: 4
• dribbles: 5/6
• ground duels won: 10/16
• fouls drawn: 3
• tackles: 2
• goals: 1

...again, Pogba had a spectacular performance.


I still don’t understand how you’re correlating France’s unnatural setup that game and blaming Pogba for the back and forth game that pursued as if that is the standard set in every given match+formation that has Pogba in it.

Sorry but you are really saying United would not dominate or control games better with a DM? A pivot with a DM would be worse at controlling or dominating games than the McFred pivot? That’s a first. And again, using the exception in the Swiss game because of the result (which overshadows Pogba’s phenomenal match) has no link in being able to say he “doesn’t help control games”. France vs. Germany + Portugal seems to say otherwise.

In an unbiased opinion, I admit Pogba was too nonchalant years ago. It was an ugly habit which he had for years but one if you’re being honest he’s trying breaking out of and has improved a lot. As of recent when he plays for club or country, he battles to help win the ball back and sacrifice his body in doing so. If you can’t be happy with that then certain people will just never be satisfied. “In the end it’s about winning games” - look at United’s record with and without Pogba. Self explanatory, not a debate. As for your last sentence, I agree to an extent. Again I will uphold it’s on the club not having provided a DM for themselves (and as a direct result, impacting Pogba but first and foremost for the sake of the club itself...it’s inexcusable) that you don’t see it at United. Well, a part from the 1 year which you seem to ignore he had with Matic where he bossed it. Which was coincidentally the only time there was a DM of starting calibre capable of playing regularly at United over the past how many years.
 
At the end of the day he is still currently the best players that played in the Euros and a World cup winner. Anyone saying 50m is crazy. He's still young enough so is a 75m player at least. I'm sick of us selling players for nothing. Hell we even undersold Ronaldo. We should be at least recouping the Sancho money for him.
 
We weren't really any better with him than without him.

Minutes Pogba played in the league:

MinutesGFGAminutes per GFminutes per GA
With Pogba1897352654.273
Without Pogba152338184084.6

On top of this, you have to remember that Pogba was often left out of matches against the big 6 with McFred starting in the midfield and Rashford usually on the left. Things only get worse for him when you consider we only lost 1 game without Pogba playing more than 45 minutes, as opposed to 5 with Pogba playing more than 45 minutes.

The only real thing we'd supposedly be losing without Pogba is creativity (not that that's reflected in the stats, but hey ho). In any case, he's more of a LM these days. So after Sancho replaces Rashford on the right, Rashford can go back to his best position on the left. Considering Pogba only got 3 assists and 3 goals all season, it's not a big stretch to think that Sancho will more than make up for whatever we'd theoretically be losing after Pogba leaves.
 
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I can guarantee you that we will look more effective without him next season but with additional Sancho, Camavinga and Varane. Remember when we lost RVN in 2006? We didn't even replace him and just like Pogba, he was world class in his position but we looked more effective as a team because some player like RVN doesn't compliment with Ronaldo's style.

Losing RVN and added Carrick, Vidic, Evra will be almost like losing Pogba and add Sancho, Camavinga, Varane which three players that needed to get the best out of the current squad. And if we use Pogba's money to sign another midfielder and sigs a new right back will make it even better.
 
I can guarantee you that we will look more effective without him next season but with additional Sancho, Camavinga and Varane. Remember when we lost RVN in 2006? We didn't even replace him and just like Pogba, he was world class in his position but we looked more effective as a team because some player like RVN doesn't compliment with Ronaldo's style.

Losing RVN and added Carrick, Vidic, Evra will be almost like losing Pogba and add Sancho, Camavinga, Varane which three players that needed to get the best out of the current squad. And if we use Pogba's money to sign another midfielder and sigs a new right back will make it even better.

You really can't.
 
He really can.
Obviously you never know and all that bullshit but it's not close for me. Sancho in and Pogba out and nothing else improves us a lot IMO. I'm basing this off any 1 off tough game. Varane then walks into the lineup and sorts out the backline and Camavinga provides great depth in midfield with a future key player role. Even with just Sancho, I genuinely don't think Pogba gets in our best 11 for a game against a big team right now:

Cavani
Rashford Bruno Sancho
Fred McTominay
Shaw Maguire Lindelof Wan Bissaka
Henderson​

Pogba doesn't get in the front 4 ahead of any of them for sure, but deeper he can't cut it in big games with that front 4, would be way too attacking.
 
At the end of the day he is still currently the best players that played in the Euros and a World cup winner. Anyone saying 50m is crazy. He's still young enough so is a 75m player at least. I'm sick of us selling players for nothing. Hell we even undersold Ronaldo. We should be at least recouping the Sancho money for him.
But there’s not actually a market for him. There is clearly a lack of suitors. PSG are perfect for him if this is true.
 
If we let him go and sign Camavinga and someone else we'd be way more balanced and finally we could stop having the "What's Pogba's best position" debate
 
But there’s not actually a market for him. There is clearly a lack of suitors. PSG are perfect for him if this is true.

This is the biggest indication of his true abilities notwithstanding the debates here. If he was as good as he thinks, he would have a line of suitors especially with 1 year of contract remaining.
 
This is the biggest indication of his true abilities notwithstanding the debates here. If he was as good as he thinks, he would have a line of suitors especially with 1 year of contract remaining.

At PSG he could trot around, show bits of class here and there in a team that will, or should, win regardless of his sporadic and half arsed contribution. He will get his money, still be in the champions league and along with internationals he’ll get the media coverage that’s so important to him.
 
If we let him go and sign Camavinga and someone else we'd be way more balanced and finally we could stop having the "What's Pogba's best position" debate

Yeah agreed. I’d love to see Camavinga here but I’m not sure he solves all problems. I know not everyone likes him but if we could sign Rice alongside him we’d have a pretty strong midfield.

Bruno can then do his thing.
 
I read about this yesterday in the papers (online) and I was scratching my head, because it seemed to be coming from Pogba's agent. Now he is famous for being a greedy so and so - but what benefit would he get from a straight swap deal?

In addition, if it were to happen, currently both players are nearing the end of their respective contracts, yes? So would the swap deal mean new longer contracts for them both giving them and the clubs involved more longer-term financial security? If so, is this how the agent would get some $s - Is he the agent for both Ronaldo and Pogba?

Mendes is Ronaldos agent. I dont know how agents fees work in a swap deal or if it happens on a free contract, but I am sure Raiola would get a cut.
 
At the end of the day he is still currently the best players that played in the Euros and a World cup winner. Anyone saying 50m is crazy. He's still young enough so is a 75m player at least. I'm sick of us selling players for nothing. Hell we even undersold Ronaldo. We should be at least recouping the Sancho money for him.

Yes but there are two things you need to consider 1) His contract is running down 2) The financial state of a lot of clubs at the moment

Not a chance for me we get anywhere near the fee you are hoping for. Have to also remember the CLUB player any suitors are buying. And for the last five years, he hasnt been a £75m player anyway.

Theer isnt a huge market for many players at the moment of high value and I dont think Pogba is a priority for many. I think if he doesnt sign a new contract we will do well to get £50m in all honesty, despit ehis abilities
 
Yeah agreed. I’d love to see Camavinga here but I’m not sure he solves all problems. I know not everyone likes him but if we could sign Rice alongside him we’d have a pretty strong midfield.

Bruno can then do his thing.

I would like us to sign two midfielders regardless of who. Nobody has shone in that double pivot so I am not sure there is the perfect partner for whoever we sign. Of coruse you just dont know. Fred or McTominay may work better with a new partner or VDb may even slot in far better with a different player there.....but I dont have faith in any of them being the answer based upon how they have performed quality wise so far.

It is a bit like our central defenders. When we signed Maguire, we really needed two and its taken us two seasons to finally address that situation
 
Obviously you never know and all that bullshit but it's not close for me. Sancho in and Pogba out and nothing else improves us a lot IMO. I'm basing this off any 1 off tough game. Varane then walks into the lineup and sorts out the backline and Camavinga provides great depth in midfield with a future key player role. Even with just Sancho, I genuinely don't think Pogba gets in our best 11 for a game against a big team right now:

Cavani
Rashford Bruno Sancho
Fred McTominay
Shaw Maguire Lindelof Wan Bissaka
Henderson​

Pogba doesn't get in the front 4 ahead of any of them for sure, but deeper he can't cut it in big games with that front 4, would be way too attacking.
Again though we don’t win major honours with that midfield. McTominay while a good squad player sticks out like a sore thumb in that team. Now if we could sell Pogba and replace with someone like Locatelli then I’d fancy us to win some big trophies.
 
I would like us to sign two midfielders regardless of who. Nobody has shone in that double pivot so I am not sure there is the perfect partner for whoever we sign. Of coruse you just dont know. Fred or McTominay may work better with a new partner or VDb may even slot in far better with a different player there.....but I dont have faith in any of them being the answer based upon how they have performed quality wise so far.

It is a bit like our central defenders. When we signed Maguire, we really needed two and its taken us two seasons to finally address that situation

Yeah, agreed.
 
Yeah agreed. I’d love to see Camavinga here but I’m not sure he solves all problems. I know not everyone likes him but if we could sign Rice alongside him we’d have a pretty strong midfield.

Bruno can then do his thing.
With Varane and Camavinga joining, it would surely solve a lot of our problems at the back. While Sancho would solve the creativity one and our right side attack.
 
(Some interesting points snipped…)

Well, a part from the 1 year which you seem to ignore he had with Matic where he bossed it. Which was coincidentally the only time there was a DM of starting calibre capable of playing regularly at United over the past how many years.
Which year was this?

Matić has been even more inconsistent for us than Pogba; there’s been nothing close to a year when either or both of them have “bossed” anything.

Our best midfield of recent years was at the start of 2017-18 when Matić first joined and we often played with a midfield three of him, Herrera and Pogba. Unfortunately Matić’s excellent starting form deserted him and around Christmas Jose’s football became ever more negative and depressing.

Pogba can do a job in a two. It was interesting that he was asked to be the more defensive of the pair in the Europa League final; a role that I thought he undertook pretty well. But there’s little doubt he’s better in a three. That’s not going to happen at United though.
 
With Varane and Camavinga joining, it would surely solve a lot of our problems at the back. While Sancho would solve the creativity one and our right side attack.

Yeah of course, as I said, I'd love Camavinga and Varane to join on top of Sancho, that would be an exciting window no doubt. But if we only signed Camavinga, how would you set up the midfield and what job would you expect him to do? I think if you only wanted him to act as the defensive MF then you're taking a lot of his game away.

I would rather see him shuttling the ball between a pure DF and Bruno / Sancho / Rashford.
 
Give me Varane and Camavinga over Pogba. If we are all honest with ourselves has Pogba really done it at united? He likes to play in a 2 in midfield but let’s be honest we would all rather have a young Carrick. Alright, Pogba can score world class goals and be Motm twice every season but does he really turn up enough? I’d much rather have a young Carrick playing CM for us compared to Pogba. I think he has had his chance to become a legend at united and unfortunately he hasn’t delivered.
 
I read about this yesterday in the papers (online) and I was scratching my head, because it seemed to be coming from Pogba's agent. Now he is famous for being a greedy so and so - but what benefit would he get from a straight swap deal?

In addition, if it were to happen, currently both players are nearing the end of their respective contracts, yes? So would the swap deal mean new longer contracts for them both giving them and the clubs involved more longer-term financial security? If so, is this how the agent would get some $s - Is he the agent for both Ronaldo and Pogba?
There's always an agent fee component for Riaola.
 
Pogba vs. Switzerland:

• minutes: 120
• touches: 101
• pass touches: 92.3%
• chances created: 4
• dribbles: 5/6
• ground duels won: 10/16
• fouls drawn: 3
• tackles: 2
• goals: 1

...again, Pogba had a spectacular performance.


I still don’t understand how you’re correlating France’s unnatural setup that game and blaming Pogba for the back and forth game that pursued as if that is the standard set in every given match+formation that has Pogba in it.

Sorry but you are really saying United would not dominate or control games better with a DM? A pivot with a DM would be worse at controlling or dominating games than the McFred pivot? That’s a first. And again, using the exception in the Swiss game because of the result (which overshadows Pogba’s phenomenal match) has no link in being able to say he “doesn’t help control games”. France vs. Germany + Portugal seems to say otherwise.

In an unbiased opinion, I admit Pogba was too nonchalant years ago. It was an ugly habit which he had for years but one if you’re being honest he’s trying breaking out of and has improved a lot. As of recent when he plays for club or country, he battles to help win the ball back and sacrifice his body in doing so. If you can’t be happy with that then certain people will just never be satisfied. “In the end it’s about winning games” - look at United’s record with and without Pogba. Self explanatory, not a debate. As for your last sentence, I agree to an extent. Again I will uphold it’s on the club not having provided a DM for themselves (and as a direct result, impacting Pogba but first and foremost for the sake of the club itself...it’s inexcusable) that you don’t see it at United. Well, a part from the 1 year which you seem to ignore he had with Matic where he bossed it. Which was coincidentally the only time there was a DM of starting calibre capable of playing regularly at United over the past how many years.
I don't see why buying a DM will help us control the games really. Let's take Ndidi (best DM in EPL if you ask me), and Rice (seems to be highly rated on here). One of them lands in front of our back 4 and what is the result? We will defend better, we will be able to catch teams in transition and in effect more space to attack. I doubt it'll change the way we play apart from being more secure defensively (which is exactly what we need after last season).

Pogba doesn't help control games in midfield two, I don't know where this idea comes from. He is a player trigerred by the ball at his feet, looking for a killer pass/dribbling through midfield. Have you seen France without Pogba in midfield? I have . Do you know what changes? Not much. They still dominate games and create chances. That is because they have fairly superior squad to 9/10 opponents they face.
Playing DM alongside Pogba will not help us control midfield anymore than playing him with Fred, because Pogba is not the guy to control games. This applies especially for United, as we/Ole doesn't really care about controlling the game through midfield (similar how England plays, we progress with the ball mostly through the wings or directly from centre backs to forwards - this happens regardless if it's McFred/Pogba/Matic in midfield).

“In the end it’s about winning games” - look at United’s record with and without Pogba. Self explanatory, not a debate.
I did take a look - did you? Link

Regarding the stats you provided, I've already admitted he had a great game offensively, and pretty average (if not poor) defensively. So I'm not sure that's something we should aspire to at United.
 
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Yeah of course, as I said, I'd love Camavinga and Varane to join on top of Sancho, that would be an exciting window no doubt. But if we only signed Camavinga, how would you set up the midfield and what job would you expect him to do? I think if you only wanted him to act as the defensive MF then you're taking a lot of his game away.

I would rather see him shuttling the ball between a pure DF and Bruno / Sancho / Rashford.
He would be fine in 2 DM system Ole trying to play. I personally would prefer this line up:

AWB Varane Maguire Shaw
Fred Camavinga
Sancho Bruno Rashford
Cavani​

I thought it’s big improvement from last season. Our back 4 look very solid, probably even best in the league - AWB is solid in defending, Shaw is best left back in Euro and PL, Maguire is one of best in PL and Euro too, Varane is proven top class CB with best CV.

In midfield we would have 2 DM pairs, which would be good enough to handle most opponents, Camavinga would either be an upgrade on defending if compared to Pogba, or upgrade in attacking if compared to Mctominay. I prefer Fred over Mctominay as he is decent in circulating pass in midfield, which would be nice if we play possession football. Defensively both Fred, Mctominay even Camavinga would all be reliable choice in 2 DM system.

On attacking, Sancho would be our main playmaker to replace Pogba creativity, and give us more balance attack on the right. Rashford/Bruno would be our main impact player/match winner, Cavani would be excellent in no.9 role.
 
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I don't see why buying a DM will help us control the games really. Let's take Ndidi (best DM in EPL if you ask me), and Rice (seems to be highly rated on here). One of them lands in front of our back 4 and what is the result? We will defend better, we will be able to catch teams in transition and in effect more space to attack. I doubt it'll change the way we play apart from being more secure defensively (which is exactly what we need after last season).

Pogba doesn't help control games in midfield two, I don't know where this idea comes from. He is a player trigerred by the ball at his feet, looking for a killer pass/dribbling through midfield. Have you seen France without Pogba in midfield? I have . Do you know what changes? Not much. They still dominate games and create chances. That is because they have fairly superior squad to 9/10 opponents they face.
Playing DM alongside Pogba will not help us control midfield anymore than playing him with Fred, because Pogba is not the guy to control games. This applies especially for United, as we/Ole doesn't really care about controlling the game through midfield (similar how England plays, we progress with the ball mostly through the wings or directly from centre backs to forwards - this happens regardless if it's McFred/Pogba/Matic in midfield).


I did take a look - did you? Link

Regarding the stats you provided, I've already admitted he had a great game offensively, and pretty average (if not poor) defensively. So I'm not sure that's something we should aspire to at United.
It could be just a coincidence but Bruno's performace downgraded immediately after Pogba came back from injury. Like I said could be just a coincidence, however, if both are not that much compatible then we have a problem (assuming Pogba stays).
 
If PSG are capable of offering him the wages he things he's worth, they are also capable of paying us.

My concern is that whilst I think he's replaceable, I just don't know if we can do that this window - do we have the ability to get that extra player in, in addition to Varane, a rb and maybe Camavinga?
 
With the signing of sancho and possibly varane I think we can make a strong title challenge next season. Maybe it’s more value to have Pogba around for one final push rather than sell him for 40-50mm. Like many posters, I do not think he gets into are starting 11 vs the top sides, but for the majority of PL games I think he is a great asset to have when trying to break down the bus. It’s also great to have quality like him on the bench and come on as a game changer.

I know it sounds absurd saying our 100mm player is a sub but he is not a 100mm player in this environment so why not keep for one more year and win some trophies?
 
Sell him. Get Camavinga and Varane in. As far as I have read, Camavinga in regardless of Pogba's movement. But, to be honest, I would let Pogba go and give room to other players.
 
If PSG sign him, hopefully that means they can’t sign Camavinga.
 
Pogba's place in the team has been narrowed down to were he is not irreplaceable. He's very good when he plays the free role as the most advanced midfielder but we got Bruno and that's his role now. Pogba also does well as the left midfield playmaker but so does Sancho and now we have him. This has narrowed Pogba's place in the team to the double pivot.

At the double pivot Pogba is very good at the offense with his creativity but his defense leaves us lacking. We have two options. Either get a solid DM and a tactical change to cover for his defensive weakness or sell him and replace him with a creative DM. Imo we cant go into next season expecting a stable midfield without doing one of these two options
 
It feels as though he has no intention of signing, so hopefully the club have given him an ultimatum dated a few weeks from now and if he doesn't resign he is sold.

I would rather have £50 - 60 million for him now than him going free next year. It isn't worth £50 million to keep him for one more season, he's good but not that important to us.
 
Pogba vs. Switzerland:

• minutes: 120
• touches: 101
• pass touches: 92.3%
• chances created: 4
• dribbles: 5/6
• ground duels won: 10/16
• fouls drawn: 3
• tackles: 2
• goals: 1

...again, Pogba had a spectacular performance.


I still don’t understand how you’re correlating France’s unnatural setup that game and blaming Pogba for the back and forth game that pursued as if that is the standard set in every given match+formation that has Pogba in it.

Sorry but you are really saying United would not dominate or control games better with a DM? A pivot with a DM would be worse at controlling or dominating games than the McFred pivot? That’s a first. And again, using the exception in the Swiss game because of the result (which overshadows Pogba’s phenomenal match) has no link in being able to say he “doesn’t help control games”. France vs. Germany + Portugal seems to say otherwise.

In an unbiased opinion, I admit Pogba was too nonchalant years ago. It was an ugly habit which he had for years but one if you’re being honest he’s trying breaking out of and has improved a lot. As of recent when he plays for club or country, he battles to help win the ball back and sacrifice his body in doing so. If you can’t be happy with that then certain people will just never be satisfied. “In the end it’s about winning games” - look at United’s record with and without Pogba. Self explanatory, not a debate. As for your last sentence, I agree to an extent. Again I will uphold it’s on the club not having provided a DM for themselves (and as a direct result, impacting Pogba but first and foremost for the sake of the club itself...it’s inexcusable) that you don’t see it at United. Well, a part from the 1 year which you seem to ignore he had with Matic where he bossed it. Which was coincidentally the only time there was a DM of starting calibre capable of playing regularly at United over the past how many years.

You forgot 6 celebrations for the one goal including 2 wanky dances.

What eveyone seems to be forgetting is this: if Man Utd. played Switzerland Pogba would look amazing, most international sides (apart from the very elite teams) are inferior to a top Premier Club side and Switzerland are not an elite team....
 
How much have PSG spent this summer? Have they sold anyone too?

I expect him to leave on a free anyway to Real next summer which will help United in the long term instead of giving him a ridiculous contract he's not worthy off.

United should be all over a swap deal with Varane.