[laughtersassassin]

He played great this season. Simple as that

 

[Rozay]

Closest I could find to an all touches compilation from last night. The footage can speak for itself. Majority of the time, a simple pass with one or two touches. There is also an example of him holding off an opponent at 29 seconds. Something that has bizzarely turned into criticism. We can watch and see for ourselves where his opponent was to him when he received the ball, and if his actions were some sort of self-indulgent need to show off, which they have been summarised as.



People will see what they want.

 

[NotoriousISSY]

Because he's leaving for nothing, again, it doesn't matter what he does between now and the end of the season.

Fans hate him. Fans actually think 25 grown men are going to live and breathe the club like they do.

I'm not Pogba supporter, I support the club, but it's quite disturbing how much he is criticised, even when he isn't playing.

 

[RedC]

There is no argument to support or defend his point. I would be with him if he simply made the point that Pogba at 29 with his injury record would be a risk at 400k on presumably a long contract. That's the reason why I'm not a fan of the prospect and why I would worry if I was managing one of his pursuers. But the concept of having to build around him or anyone is beyond me, the only player that definitely had a team built around him was Riquelme and it was peculiar at the time.

I'm not even arguing this point, I literally responded to your question about why everyone says these things, with the most common response. You are very tedious sometimes.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

There was a man on him and he did get away from him, then he slipped...can't hold that instance against him

It was so unnecessary though. Made life difficult for himself/the team for no reason.

 

[JPRouve]

I'm not even arguing this point, I literally responded to your question about why everyone says these things, with the most common response. You are very tedious sometimes.

Your answer never addressed the point about building around someone. The point that you aren't arguing is the point of the original question.

 

[11101]

Erm, because he’s only able to play the pass having gotten rid of the defender nibbling at him?

And here is Burnley:



0:05
0:15
0:42
1:40

I am sure that video is to short to cover all his touches, but those were all times where he could have released the ball sooner.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Closest I could find to an all touches compilation from last night. The footage can speak for itself. Majority of the time, a simple pass with one or two touches. There is also an example of him holding off an opponent at 29 seconds. Something that has bizzarely turned into criticism. We can watch and see for ourselves where his opponent was to him when he received the ball, and if his actions were some sort of self-indulgent need to show off, which they have been summarised as.



People will see what they want.

I counted 13 touches there. He had 73 touches yesterday. It's basically his best bits which are 18% of his total touches if we're going just off that video.

Not that I'm getting into this specific argument but it's a very biased way of looking at his performance yesterday.

My own take is that he was good in the first half and poor in the second. Like the rest of the team he was second best in 50/50s in the second half as we lost control. Overall I'd say he, Varane and Sancho were the best performers.

 

[JPRouve]

And here is Burnley:



0:05
0:15
0:42
1:40

I am sure that video is to short to cover all his touches, but those were all times where he could have released the ball sooner.

Did you include one where he was on the ground and had to stand up with an opponent on him and no pass option at 0:42 and also one at 1:40 where he controls a high ball with an opponent holding his harm with both hands?

 

[Telsim]

I think he is an excellent player, a cut above most of this squad. But the antics of him and his agent off the field are just too much for me. I really hate it. A part of me wants him to stay, but I think it will be better for both parties to part ways at this point. Shame.

 

[Bebestation]

Is he playing more energetically for Rangnick so far?

Sure it might just be for contracts or something but he seems a tiny bit different.

 

[Rozay]

And here is Burnley:



0:05
0:15
0:42
1:40

I am sure that video is to short to cover all his touches, but those were all times where he could have released the ball sooner.

Release quicker to who though? There is no pass on. And some of those are nitpicking now come on. Like the last one. He’s being pulled as he brings the ball down. I’m not sure these are examples of ‘slowing our team’s play down’, and there are plenty of examples of one touch passing that keep us moving in the same video when our team is actually in flow.

 

[Marwood]

It looks like a weird flex, to be honest. Wanting to show off how strong and skilful he is.

Another classic Pogba moment happened against Boro. He received a pass near the centre circle under no pressure and for some bizarre reason he chose to control the ball with a flashy chop/Cruyff turn, fecked it up and Boro immediately started pouring towards our box.

So many times he over-complicates what should be simple techniques and creates really dangerous situations for our back four to deal with. It’s why he can’t be relied on in those deeper midfield roles and what makes it so fecking maddening is it’s not a lack of talent, just repeatedly making bad decisions. But he’s 29 years old now. These flaws are here to stay.

It's a definite thing he does.

He is quite good at it but becuase of that it's as if he likes to challenge himself as to how good at it he is. So we find him not just trying to hold one or even two off, he's repeatedly and needlessly trying to keep it from three players.

It's self indulgent but that's the problem with quite a few players we have.

 

[Oranges038]

[

Well he does. And has. Otherwise you wouldn’t need to be exaggerating that what you are describing happens more than 3 times out of the 60+ times he gets the ball in each game. What do you think happens all then other times that you don’t bother to remember when he gets the ball in space and makes a simple 5 yard pass uncontested? Or does this never happen? Or does it happen only twice a game or something?

Go to YouTube and pull up literally any ‘Pogba vs X - all touches’ videos, and 90% of the time he gets the ball he is not going to be involved in a strength battle. However, given his opponents would like to take the ball from him too, it will of course happen at times, and when it does, he usually manages to hold them off.

Again, take this video from the game before last. Did he just learn how to avoid physical battles last week?



All players get into physical battles in the midfield. When they occur, I never hear how it is somehow down to self-indulgence. Opponents will try to press you and take the ball from you. As I have said, it happens to midfielders, defenders and strikers. People handle it differently. Bruno’s response to being pressed is typically to fall over and hold his ankle, for example. As is Busquets. Others just pass the ball backwards if they can. Others are agile and skilled enough to spin. Players like Pogba and Mousa Dembele use a combination of skill and strength.

Not sure how we’ve even ended up with THIS being the topic in this thread the day after his performance last night anyway.

Yes, I exaggerated but there is no denying that it remains one of the most frustrating parts if his game.

 

[Grande]

You are certainly right in that he is not a buzzing centre midfielder like Modric, Xavi, Scholes and co - in constant motion in short shuttles. Perhaps this is due to his physical make up. Weghorst and Messi would deal with evading pressure from a defender in different ways.

Here is a video of all of his touches against Boro (Burnley not available yet). I saw no strength competitions here, just typical one and two touch passing, which is Pogba’s game. This is how he plays every week. When he is physically engaged, he will physically engage.


Video also includes the ‘classic Pogba moment’ as described by @Pogue Mahone where he ‘receives the ball under no pressure but tries to control with a silly Cruyff turn’ or something or another. That is at 01:35.

Regardless of our takes on previous Pogba - that was a really good display of what we were talking about in ideal terms, that is, how I’d like Pogba to play. Didn’t see the Boro game, but if he continues to play like that and yesterday under Rangnik, he’s going to be very useful the rest of this season.

 

[Rozay]

[


Yes, I exaggerated but there is no denying that it remains one of the most frustrating parts if his game.

Hmm, perhaps to you. It is a non-issue to me. Seems to be clutching. It is very easy to not be infuriated by Pogba holding off an opponent now and then, IMO. More often than not, it ends with him keeping the ball and us continuing our move with little to no cost, except for the times that he loses the ball, which could happen with any way he chooses to handle the ball.

But it’s cool, I can see you are not that pissed off and this is a fairly light conversation. Your position is fair enough mate.

 

[Oranges038]

Hmm, perhaps to you. It is a non-issue to me. Seems to be clutching. It is very easy to not be infuriated by Pogba holding off an opponent now and then, IMO. More often than not, it ends with him keeping the ball and us continuing our move with little to no cost, except for the times that he loses the ball, which could happen with any way he chooses to handle the ball.

But it’s cool, I can see you are not that pissed off and this is a fairly light conversation. Your position is fair enough mate.

I think the point is that when he does get involved in these sort of tussles and loses, it invariably leads to the defence being under pressure. Which is why it sticks out and annoys people so much.

 

[bosnian_red]

Is he playing more energetically for Rangnick so far?

Sure it might just be for contracts or something but he seems a tiny bit different.

Nah he's playing like he always does. He'll have the occasional sloppy moment which gets punished pretty frequently, but he does put in the effort and plays well... Biggest thing for me is I feel that both him and Bruno are best in the same position and need a controlling and defensive mid behind them. They offer different things, but generally they both should be the most advanced of a midfield 3.

On Pogba though, I've definitely noticed a decline in his physical agility. He looks a lot less agile, slower, clunkier. Go back to his Juve days or with United when we signed him, he was way more agile and quicker with his body movements and dribbling.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

I hated the move by Ralf to shift him further back to allow fecking Lingard on the pitch. We weren't lacking goal threats we were lacking a bit of control since Pogba and McT were being left on their own by Bruno in the second half and our formation yet again turned into a 4-2-4. Moving Pogba further from goal to accompany a worse creative and technical influence is just always a stupid decision.

 

[DJ_21]

A fully fit and raring to go Paul pogba is so good to watch… he looked motivated and his last 2 performances have been good. Him and mctominay with Bruno looks good and attacking. Bruno made some good recoveries in the first halve but let us down in the second. I think we need to try and keep pogba but within reasonable wages obvs, and sign a proper DM… that will unlock both pogba and Bruno.

 

[Jeppers7]

And here is Burnley:



0:05
0:15
0:42
1:40

I am sure that video is to short to cover all his touches, but those were all times where he could have released the ball sooner.

Literally absolutely zero to complain about there. But it’s Pogba and the usual suspects can’t go two games without criticising him for fear of it becoming apparent that he’s actual a good player who plays well far more often than he doesn’t.

 

[Rozay]

I think the point is that when he does get involved in these sort of tussles and loses, it invariably leads to the defence being under pressure. Which is why it sticks out and annoys people so much.

That is not untrue, but it is just common sense really that if a player gives the ball away at the base of midfield, there is a good chance the defence will be put under pressure. But that happens wherher players choose to pass it, control it, dribble it etc. If Pogba engages in such a battle close to our own box, then that means he has either been played into pressure close to our own box, or he has received the ball not under pressure, but instead waited for an opponent to come and fight with him. Which is unlikely. But if he gets the ball into feet with someone jumping over his back, trying to hold them off isn’t amongst the strangest choices he could make. And more often than not, he either does, or wins a foul.

But in the main, I think it will be less annoying if people didn’t decide to view it as some sort of self-indulgent act. Because when viewed like that, I can easily see why one would be easily annoyed. But I find it an odd way to view trying to hold off an opponent, if not for the fact that there are a section of people who simply think Pogba is a particularly self-indulgent person, and as a result, that is what they see. In and of itself, I cannot see how a player holding an opponent off would upset anyone, as it is not even close to being amongst the more annoying things done on a football field. I can’t help but think that perhaps it being Pogba triggers people, because they are seemingly not even aware that our other players do the same thing, and several other players do it every game. If not for the spin of it being seen as a self-indulgent pissing competition, which is how people have chosen to interpret it, it would be a non-issue altogether.

We literally have players like Amad, Sancho, Fred even Bruno that many people have said are too weak at different times due to their inability to hold opponents off who try to outmuscle them, feck knows why Pogba doing it is making anyone angry.

 

[Jeppers7]

That is not untrue, but it is just common sense really that if a player gives the ball away at the base of midfield, there is a good chance the defence will be put under pressure. But that happens wherher players choose to pass it, control it, dribble it etc. If Pogba engages in such a battle close to our own box, then that means he has either been played into pressure close to our own box, or he has received the ball not under pressure, but instead waited for an opponent to come and fight with him. Which is unlikely. But if he gets the ball into feet with someone jumping over his back, trying to hold them off isn’t amongst the strangest choices he could make. And more often than not, he either does, or wins a foul.

But in the main, I think it will be less annoying if people didn’t decide to view it as some sort of self-indulgent act. Because when viewed like that, I can easily see why one would be easily annoyed. But I find it an odd way to view trying to hold off an opponent, if not for the fact that there are a section of people who simply think Pogba is a particularly self-indulgent person, and as a result, that is what they see. In and of itself, I cannot see how a player holding an opponent off would upset anyone, as it is not even close to being amongst the more annoying things done on a football field. I can’t help but think that perhaps it being Pogba triggers people, because they are seemingly not even aware that our other players do the same thing, and several other players do it every game. If not for the spin of it being seen as a self-indulgent pissing competition, which is how people have chosen to interpret it, it would be a non-issue altogether.

We literally have players like Amad, Sancho, Fred even Bruno that many people have said are too weak at different times due to their inability to hold opponents off who try to outmuscle them, feck knows why Pogba doing it is making anyone angry.

Haircut, dancing, agent something

 

[Nou_Camp99]

He has almost exclusively been used as a CM/DM in 4231. Bruno has almost exclusively been used as a 10/second striker.

Not true. And he played as a left forward for a good chunk of last season.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

How many goals has Bruno scored since he's been taken off penalty?

He scored 2 in one game at Villa not long ago.

Bruno has been a miles better signing than Pogba has. Anyone who says otherwise is delusional.

 

[berbatrick]

Ideally if he holds on to the ball, it's to execute something like this:



Waiting for the press to come, and turning, having taken out the immediate opposition and created a counter attack from nothing by himself. He obviously does it in a much more physical way than Iniesta. It's worked a few times. And many times it's when there isn't an obvious passing option, so just using his strength to wait for movement.
High risk high reward imo.

 

[JPRouve]

Not true. And he played as a left forward for a good chunk of last season.

So he didn't play almost exclusively as CM/DM in a 4231? Do you think that the good chunk was representative of previous seasons and superior or even equal to the amount of games at CM/DM?

 

[Rozay]

He scored 2 in one game at Villa not long ago.

Bruno has been a miles better signing than Pogba has. Anyone who says otherwise is delusional.

Which is basically what you came in here to add. As per usual.

 

[Greck]

I agree with your general point that sometimes it can be effective. I disagree if you mean Pogba is good at deciding when to invite a hold off and when to keep the ball moving. I think this decision making is a weakness with him, just like Rashford has a weak decision making of when to shoot and when to pass outside the box.

Compared to a player like De Bruyne (high bar, I know), who often will do what you say, but most times will keep the ball ticking, and almost never lose the ball in midfield with half his teammates in front of the ball, Pogba too often slows our play with this move, and he creates openings for the opposition as often as he does for us with that particular choice. That’s just my impression, on the whole.

Being honest I've definitely seen him do this and it infuriates me..but is not enough to outweigh the positives this kind of ball carrying brings. The unnecessary takeons stick out a lot when it happens because it should never happen but last night's game wasn't one of them imo. I expect him to continue doing it while also expecting him to minimise the instances where they are unnecessary. This is the era of passing out of the back so it's reasonable to expect midfielders and defenders to not lose the ball when they take these risks.

 

[Marwood]

That is not untrue, but it is just common sense really that if a player gives the ball away at the base of midfield, there is a good chance the defence will be put under pressure. But that happens wherher players choose to pass it, control it, dribble it etc. If Pogba engages in such a battle close to our own box, then that means he has either been played into pressure close to our own box, or he has received the ball not under pressure, but instead waited for an opponent to come and fight with him. Which is unlikely. But if he gets the ball into feet with someone jumping over his back, trying to hold them off isn’t amongst the strangest choices he could make. And more often than not, he either does, or wins a foul.

But in the main, I think it will be less annoying if people didn’t decide to view it as some sort of self-indulgent act. Because when viewed like that, I can easily see why one would be easily annoyed. But I find it an odd way to view trying to hold off an opponent, if not for the fact that there are a section of people who simply think Pogba is a particularly self-indulgent person, and as a result, that is what they see. In and of itself, I cannot see how a player holding an opponent off would upset anyone, as it is not even close to being amongst the more annoying things done on a football field. I can’t help but think that perhaps it being Pogba triggers people, because they are seemingly not even aware that our other players do the same thing, and several other players do it every game. If not for the spin of it being seen as a self-indulgent pissing competition, which is how people have chosen to interpret it, it would be a non-issue altogether.

We literally have players like Amad, Sancho, Fred even Bruno that many people have said are too weak at different times due to their inability to hold opponents off who try to outmuscle them, feck knows why Pogba doing it is making anyone angry.

Seeing something in a game and discussing it here doesn't equal anger. It's just an observation.

 

[Jeppers7]

He scored 2 in one game at Villa not long ago.

Bruno has been a miles better signing than Pogba has. Anyone who says otherwise is delusional.

If we continue winning nothing I’d question that. If Bruno doesn’t improve his performances of the past 12 months in the next 12 months I’d question it.

The sample size of Bruno’s good performances and success is too small to say that for certain.If Bruno doesn’t improve in the next three years from the last 12 months and United remain unsuccessful for the next three seasons then not for me.

He definitely had a greater start though. I still miss the Bruno of the first half season. He was a joy to watch.

 

[KennyBurner]

It’s so crazy how I feel about him leaving. I’m very sure he won’t resign but I sort of want him to because of our lack of options. It’s a case of me not trusting United to sign an adequate replacement.

 

[Rozay]

Seeing something in a game and discussing it here doesn't equal anger. It's just an observation.

Indeed. When you come to discuss it and state that it is ‘infuriating’ though, that does equal anger. Or ‘fury’, if you prefer.

 

[Greck]

Indeed. When you come to discuss it and state that it is ‘infuriating’ though, that does equal anger. Or ‘fury’, if you prefer.

edit sorry didnt realise you weren't quuoting me. Will delete.

 

[Pintu]

He definitely had a greater start though. I still miss the Bruno of the first half season. He was a joy to watch.

Pogba was part of winning some silverware in his first season. Scoring in one final. That’s gotta count for something as well.

 

[Owen11]

He scored 2 in one game at Villa not long ago.

Bruno has been a miles better signing than Pogba has. Anyone who says otherwise is delusional.

Ragnick has been here since the start of November and Bruno has just 2 goals and several shit games since then, ever since he stopped taking penalty his stats has dropped significantly.

And he's not been a better signing or even as good a player as pogba, he has won nothing with us, he has no single big game performance (he's the lukaku of midfielders),he goes missing whenever we look to challenge for anything.
The only thing he has over Pogba are his penalty inflated stats which was due to the way ole had us playing.

 

[RedDevil@84]

Hope his good form continues till end of season, when he leaves.

 

[lost7]

This thread is embarassing. Seeing the usual suspects shitting on Pogba and others on Bruno is just boring and should have no place here.

 

[united for life]

It’s so crazy how I feel about him leaving. I’m very sure he won’t resign but I sort of want him to because of our lack of options. It’s a case of me not trusting United to sign an adequate replacement.

i actually hope he leaves. He is clearly a good player but it’s not working for him at united. His performances do not qualify him for the 400/500k a week or whatever contract he is asking for. I’d rather he leaves. Hasn’t lived up to expectations at united

 

[Bobski]

Great first 30 mins then drifted out of the game with isolated moments of quality and some silly losses of the ball.. Long way off top fitness.