[Ladron de redcafe]

Yeah, we've had that argument about Pogba - he's in a dysfunctional team. I'll add that to the "he needs better colleagues", "he needs a better manager", "he needs to be in a different position" list.

If only we had an example of a midfielder coming into a dysfunctional team like ours 3 years ago from a foreign league and showing better consistency from the off.

And who would that be? Because Bruno certainly isn't more consistent than Pogba. He has an extremely high top level and an extremely low bottom level.

 

[kouroux]

Yeah - and I see where he's coming from. But I'm talking about Pogba's individual performances and we have examples from Bruno to show midfielders can come in and take games by the scruff of the neck on a more consistent basis. So I would disagree.

Like I was saying and like how so often @JPRouve often says on the caf, Pogba was never that type "take a game by the scruff of the neck" player, his fee and the marketing behind (from the club and player) have created this expectation.
If he leaves and ends up in a better team than Utd, he'll still be the same type of player but his qualities will shine more just as his deficiencies will be better hidden

 

[VP89]

The standard of the football forums on here is on the floor, I don't think anyone is disillusioned by that, but I'm sure you don't go around all the other player performance threads saying how unreasonable certain posts are.

You really need to stop trying to create a conspiracy against Paul Pogba versus other players, it's getting extremely tiresome.

If you don't think he's been playing well since he returned from injury then, who, in your eyes has been playing well? That's my question.

Again, you're making up what I said. I said he hasn't played well in every game since his return. This is a Pogba performance thread, not a post-match thread. Why are you being so insecure about fair Pogba critiques? I've said his return has been good multiple times for fecksake. Just pointing out there's no need to go overboard.

Also, yes he's drifting out of games, he's clearly having to rebuild his stamina & fitness - and again the entire team have drifted out of games, that why we've suffered 4 1-1 draws despite starting well. That's not on Pogba alone, the entire team tend to switch off in the second half.

Paul Pogba drifting out of games isn't a brand new occurrence post injury. It's a flaw in his game since I've ever watched him even for Juventus.

Pogba has put in a solid season of consistency in the 17/18 year when we won Europa, again the team wasn't great but him, Zlatan & De Gea were pretty much our best players. He's also been consistent for the last 12 months, and the fact that you can only name a few players who have been consistent for such short periods of time speaks to my point.

He wasn't that consistent in 17/18, he was actually tailing off in the second half of the season if I recall correctly - but it was certainly one of his better seasons for us. And stop talking about the last 12 months - the fact that you outright ignore he's been injured 50% of the time and returns with 5-6 good games at a go, shows you are not understanding my point.

Pretty much everyone has been patchy, nobody has maintained a level of consistency throughout their entire time with us - even De Gea.
We're a struggling team, and if not for the drop-offs by Arsenal & Spurs we would've been languishing somewhere in the Europa spots in the league in the last few years.
The fact that we have so many players who put in a consistent 5/10 performance is bound to drag the entire level of the squad down - but that's not to say Pogba hasn't been one of the most consistent, despite all that.

Again, no. Maguire's second half of last season is about as much prolonged form that Pogba has ever shown for us in one single go. Luke Shaw was consistent throughout the entirety of last season pretty much week in week out. Bruno was consistent from the second half of the season he joined (Jan transfer) and the whole of the next season in my opinion. There's a few examples. Pogba I'd want to be fit for starters, and when fit, show that sort of consistency. Rashford was showing consistency for a solid 18 months.

I'm not asking for the world here - this should be reasonable for a player of his talent.

Is he doing well right now? YES <-- please note this before you make up a narrative otherwise.
Is he going to stay consistent? TBC. This is my gripe with him during his time here. For HIS level I expect greater. I don't really care if McT or Fred or our academy stars who are developing aren't as consistent because his barometer should be greater than that. That's why we bought him, to take us a level above.

 

[JPRouve]

Like I was saying and like how so often @JPRouve often says on the caf, Pogba was never that type "take a game by the scruff of the neck" player, his fee and the marketing behind (from the club and player) have created this expectation.
If he leaves and ends up in a better team than Utd, he'll still be the same type of player but his qualities will shine more just as his deficiencies will be better hidden

I still remember many posters not liking it when I said that he was overrated and that people would blame him instead of reajusting their failed evaluations.

 

[Adam-Utd]

The type of player that when it goes well, it goes very well. When it goes bad, very bad.

He was simply majestic in that first half, I love watching him when he's feeling light on his feet.

It will be a shame when he eventually goes as he's truly world class on his day - I don't think we should offer anything more than a 3+1 deal though if he is open to staying.

 

[Rozay]

Last season Harry Maguire maintained a good stretch of consistency in the second half of the season, weirdly. To the extent we were all worried when he was out for Villareal. Bruno was consistent for almost 2 straight seasons, Shaw was consistent over the course of the whole season. Pogba was injured but I don't think he was any more or less than consistent in general than his peers.

My point isn't that he's a bad player though, or that he's toxic anymore (he certainly was when his agent piped up because that's his mouthpiece like it or not). It's more that he's doing well now, still drifting out of some games but we shouldn't panic and offer him shit loads of money to stay because he's not remotely worth that.

Bruno has been no more consistent than Pogba, generally speaking. I said in a thread yesterday that Pogba’s biggest issue is that he doesn’t post huge goal and assist numbers. This is why when seasons are retrospectively distilled into ‘5 good games’, those tend to be games that he scored in that people cannot help but remember, due to the goal. Ironically, these are not always even his best performances, and many games he has scored in have seen his performance overrated to me. But on the whole, our games tend to be forgettable because our entire seasons tend to be forgettable. If after a few months we are talking about a game where Pogba didn’t score, it seems to be some sort of ‘let’s just safely assume he was poor’ in that one too. Often it is not the case. Reading the performance thread immediately after those games tells a different story, but by the end of the season, they are understandably classed as forgettable. People don’t even realise that when they attempt to start listing/naming these terrible games, I often read them going back to the same ones. Terrible at St. Mary’s in 2018. Poor at St. James’. They can remember each bad game, and they are often the same ones. What about all the other, more recent ones, given the apparent ratio of poor performances?

On the other hand, there’s now a thread retrospectively questioning our own eyes and our own real time assessments regarding Bruno’s form because as individual games become consigned to distant memory, the only thing that remains are stats. So even when majority of posters come into performance threads immediately after a game and offer an opinion that Bruno played poorly, we fast forward a few months and we are now scratching our heads. The OP in that thread simply lists numbers. ‘He has 20 goal involvements, he hasn’t been bad at all.’ Logically, that actually makes sense too.

Even in the season that Pogba made the team of the year and many accept he played well, it is largely due to the fact that he was our top scorer and assist provider. It’s commonly said in football how ‘in 20 years nobody will remember x or y, history books will just show that so and so were the winners’. Now while Pogba hasn’t been consistently amazing by any stretch, I think the good he does is also impacted from a narrative perspective by the fact he isn’t a huge G+A man. Even yesterday, everyone is more positive given we won, but if the game ended 2-2, his performance will become a lot worse over time due to the fact that the game will be remembered as a disappointment. What he’d have needed was to earn the assist from Ronaldo, because that is what will stand the test of time, but CR7 missed. Likewise in his first season where he played very well with Zlatan. The stats don’t tell the full picture and as a result, the season is dismissed more and more over time. We finished 6th after all! But he hit the woodwork about 8 times that season, and bucketloads of chances he made were fluffed (mainly by Zlatan). He needed those to go in for the narrative to be different. Because when it’s all said and done, 14 goals would be all that is remembered. He got POTS in the EL that same season, largely because we won it. If not, history would be less kind to him, same as the World Cup.

I think Pogba needs better numbers, but I also think Bruno needs better ‘

 

[VP89]

Like I was saying and like how so often @JPRouve often says on the caf, Pogba was never that type "take a game by the scruff of the neck" player, his fee and the marketing behind (from the club and player) have created this expectation.
If he leaves and ends up in a better team than Utd, he'll still be the same type of player but his qualities will shine more just as his deficiencies will be better hidden

I see where you're coming from. He isn't that type of player - perhaps he needs to play in a well settled system and be a very good cog in what is already a well oiled machine.

But he also will need to play in a specific remit and with certain midfield profiles to be successful. And therein lies my issue with Pogba as a footballer, it just feels we are all needing to be too delicate in the conditions required for him show his worth. That's all. I wonder what club can offer him that sort of structure too - perhaps PSG? I feel that league is a step down though and his entire career will be limited to just all eggs in the Champions League basket.

 

[villain]

You really need to stop trying to create a conspiracy against Paul Pogba versus other players, it's getting extremely tiresome.


Again, you're making up what I said. I said he hasn't played well in every game since his return. This is a Pogba performance thread, not a post-match thread. Why are you being so insecure about fair Pogba critiques?


Paul Pogba drifting out of games isn't a brand new occurrence post injury. It's a flaw in his game since I've ever watched him even for Juventus.


He wasn't that consistent in 17/18, he was actually tailing off in the second half of the season if I recall correctly - but it was certainly one of his better seasons for us. And stop talking about the last 12 months - the fact that you outright ignore he's been injured 50% of the time and returns with 5-6 good games at a go, shows you are not understanding my point.


Again, no. Maguire's second half of last season is about as much prolonged form that Pogba has ever shown for us in one single go. Luke Shaw was consistent throughout the entirety of last season pretty much week in week out. Bruno was consistent from the second half of the season he joined (Jan transfer) and the whole of the next season in my opinion. There's a few examples. Pogba I'd want to be fit for starters, and when fit, show that sort of consistency. Rashford was showing consistency for a solid 18 months.

I'm not asking for the world here - this should be reasonable for a player of his talent.

Is he doing well right now? YES <-- please note this before you make up a narrative otherwise.
Is he going to stay consistent? TBC. This is my gripe with him during his time here. For HIS level I expect greater. I don't really care if McT or Fred or our academy stars who are developing aren't as consistent because his barometer should be greater than that. That's why we bought him, to take us a level above.

I'm not making a conspiracy, its true is it not? You said that certain posts about Pogba are unreasonable - well its the football forum, 1 in every 3 posts are unreasonable but I doubt you go around the other player threads with that same consistency.

Now you're trying to call me insecure - making up claims all because we're having a debate on a forum? How does that make sense? This is the point of the 'caf, someone challenging your opinion doesn't make them a conspiracy theorist or insecure

Why would I stop talking about the last 12 months? He came back from injury and put in 4 months where he played consistently well every week and dragged us over the line in a lot of games, (AC Milan & Spurs off the top of my head) and this season he's been consistently one of our better performers. You wanted to talk about when he's have prolonged periods of consistency, which is what i'm doing - but instead you want to say it's only 5-6 games, and he's injured half the time (more like 33% of the time, if we're being specific)

I'd agree about Maguire & Shaw. I don't think Bruno was consistent from about November last year up until the end of the season - yes he scored & assisted still, but his level dropped off massively, and that was right around the time when we were struggling to break down the likes of Burnley, Southampton, Fulham etc because we relied so much on Bruno & Rashford and their form dropped, then Pogba came back into the team and we went on a run again. I also think Bruno has had a very patchy season, lots of highs but lots of lows as well, again not consistent.

I think the fact that we don't care about who he's surrounded with is why we struggle to see the best of him, the likes of McT, Fred, AWB, Shaw (this season), Rashford etc playing badly isn't conducive to a CM. If Pogba is looking for players to link up with, create chances for, play 1-2's with, those players also need to be at a much higher level than they're currently playing. I'm not saying we need a team of superstars, but in McT & Fred we have guys who struggle when pressed, or passing ability, Rashford can't hit a barn door or dribble right now, Shaw & AWB have dropped off massively etc. how can you expect a midfield player to drag everybody up a level when they're struggling to do the basics like pass the ball well?

 

[villain]

Bruno has been no more consistent than Pogba, generally speaking. I said in a thread yesterday that Pogba’s biggest issue is that he doesn’t post huge goal and assist numbers. This is why when seasons are retrospectively distilled into ‘5 good games’, those tend to be games that he scored in that people cannot help but remember, due to the goal. Ironically, these are not always even his best performances, and many games he has scored in have seen his performance overrated to me. But on the whole, our games tend to be forgettable because our entire seasons tend to be forgettable. If after a few months we are talking about a game where Pogba didn’t score, it seems to be some sort of ‘let’s just safely assume he was poor’ in that one too. Often it is not the case. Reading the performance thread immediately after those games tells a different story, but by the end of the season, they are understandably classed as forgettable. People don’t even realise that when they attempt to start listing/naming these terrible games, I often read them going back to the same ones. Terrible at St. Mary’s in 2018. Poor at St. James’. They can remember each bad game, and they are often the same ones. What about all the other, more recent ones, given the apparent ratio of poor performances?

On the other hand, there’s now a thread retrospectively questioning our own eyes and our own real time assessments regarding Bruno’s form because as individual games become consigned to distant memory, the only thing that remains are stats. So even when majority of posters come into performance threads immediately after a game and offer an opinion that Bruno played poorly, we fast forward a few months and we are now scratching our heads. The OP in that thread simply lists numbers. ‘He has 20 goal involvements, he hasn’t been bad at all.’ Logically, that actually makes sense too.

Even in the season that Pogba made the team of the year and many accept he played well, it is largely due to the fact that he was our top scorer and assist provider. It’s commonly said in football how ‘in 20 years nobody will remember x or y, history books will just show that so and so were the winners’. Now while Pogba hasn’t been consistently amazing by any stretch, I think the good he does is also impacted from a narrative perspective by the fact he isn’t a huge G+A man. Even yesterday, everyone is more positive given we won, but if the game ended 2-2, his performance will become a lot worse over time due to the fact that the game will be remembered as a disappointment. What he’d have needed was to earn the assist from Ronaldo, because that is what will stand the test of time, but CR7 missed. Likewise in his first season where he played very well with Zlatan. The stats don’t tell the full picture and as a result, the season is dismissed more and more over time. We finished 6th after all! But he hit the woodwork about 8 times that season, and bucketloads of chances he made were fluffed (mainly by Zlatan). He needed those to go in for the narrative to be different. Because when it’s all said and done, 14 goals would be all that is remembered. He got POTS in the EL that same season, largely because we won it. If not, history would be less kind to him, same as the World Cup.

I think Pogba needs better numbers, but I also think Bruno needs better ‘

Excellent post, but especially this part

But on the whole, our games tend to be forgettable because our entire seasons tend to be forgettable. If after a few months we are talking about a game where Pogba didn’t score, it seems to be some sort of ‘let’s just safely assume he was poor’ in that one too.

 

[JPRouve]

I see where you're coming from. He isn't that type of player - perhaps he needs to play in a well settled system and be a very good cog in what is already a well oiled machine.

But he also will need to play in a specific remit and with certain midfield profiles to be successful. And therein lies my issue with Pogba as a footballer, it just feels we are all needing to be too delicate in the conditions required for him show his worth. That's all. I wonder what club can offer him that sort of structure too - perhaps PSG? I feel that league is a step down though and his entire career will be limited to just all eggs in the Champions League basket.

Everyone needs to play in a well settled team. We all saw how weak the Modric-Kroos partnership was without the proper support players but no one in their right mind would question either of these players. In Fact english fans should know that extremely well, surely people remember how inconsistent the likes of Scholes, Lampard and Gerrard were for England, individually these players were great but without a properly balanced structure they couldn't do much and England's midfield was arguably the weakest point(we will ignore goalkeeping ).

 

[VP89]

I'm not making a conspiracy, its true is it not? You said that certain posts about Pogba are unreasonable - well its the football forum, 1 in every 3 posts are unreasonable but I doubt you go around the other player threads with that same consistency.

Believe it or not, I have lots of things to do in my day, and often only post on the trending threads on the United forum. Not that I should explain my logic of where I post to you, but it's important you recognize that I shouldn't need to go round giving posts in every single player performance thread just because I posted a normalized one in the Pogba thread.

Now you're trying to call me insecure - making up claims all because we're having a debate on a forum? How does that make sense? This is the point of the 'caf, someone challenging your opinion doesn't make them a conspiracy theorist or insecure

Of course you're insecure. In so many pages of this thread recently you have countless posts talking about how other posters treat Paul Pogba differently. I've ignored it but you've now tried to thrust that narrative on to me when I've said nothing unreasonable about him.

Why would I stop talking about the last 12 months?

Because my point is about consistency and that's impossible to gauge or prove when a player is injured 50% of the time. This really isn't rocket science at this stage.

I'd agree about Maguire & Shaw. I don't think Bruno was consistent from about November last year up until the end of the season - yes he scored & assisted still, but his level dropped off massively, and that was right around the time when we were struggling to break down the likes of Burnley, Southampton, Fulham etc because we relied so much on Bruno & Rashford and their form dropped, then Pogba came back into the team and we went on a run again. I also think Bruno has had a very patchy season, lots of highs but lots of lows as well, again not consistent.

Bruno's remit is to take far more risks and if he's scoring/assisting whilst doing it then it's hard to argue against that. Yes his form did drop - that I certainly agree with. But he joined in Jan of the season prior - was consistent throughout that season and then all the way into the end of the calendar year. That is already more sustained week in/week out consistency than Pogba showed for us.

I think the fact that we don't care about who he's surrounded with is why we struggle to see the best of him, the likes of McT, Fred, AWB, Shaw (this season), Rashford etc playing badly isn't conducive to a CM. If Pogba is looking for players to link up with, create chances for, play 1-2's with, those players also need to be at a much higher level than they're currently playing. I'm not saying we need a team of superstars, but in McT & Fred we have guys who struggle when pressed, or passing ability, Rashford can't hit a barn door or dribble right now, Shaw & AWB have dropped off massively etc. how can you expect a midfield player to drag everybody up a level when they're struggling to do the basics like pass the ball well?

Pogba shouldn't need to be playing one-twos all the time to be a great player for us. The gripes a lot of the time we've had with him is at his worst, he can often be laborious, over dribble, and be positionally loose. Bruno can also be like this too but Bruno gets numbers in even at his worst and has a far more tangible impact on the game. If you put Pogba in Bruno's position he wont be able to deliver the same ridiculous numbers. So out of the two it's only sustainable for Bruno to stay in my opinion.

I'd like Pogba to stay on as an option and to play against the flat track bully sides but not for the quoted salaries. The excitement I get from Pogba potentially staying is not near as the excitement of us getting say, a proper 6 like Rice. Thats' where I stand with him - good player, supremely talented but never showed the full extent. Indifferent if he stays or goes. The indifferent point is consistent across Maguire, Shaw, AWB, McTominay and Rashford too - but I'm not going to distract my working day any further by posting in each of their performance thread to highlight it.

 

[TsuWave]

I’m a bit distraught as I think someone may have slipped me some hallucinogens. I read some posts that said Pogba isn’t athletic and I can’t think of any other explanation. Scary stuff

If it’s the exchange I’m thinking, rather than hallucinogens, I think your reading comprehension failed you. what was said was that athleticism isn’t core to his game and that he can reach really high top speeds, but that again, that is not the foundation of his game. An assertion that is miles away from “he’s not athletic”, in fact, the opposite was said.

 

[TsuWave]

He's been good since his return but let's not forget who we've played. Middlesbrough, Burnley, Southampton, Brighton and Leeds. 3 of which we didn't even win either.

If we are still saying the same about him after Atletico X2, City away, Spurs home and Liverpool away then it's happy days. This is where players of his calibre are judged.

Yet we have struggled against these teams, for years now. If they were easy to steamroll through, we would, no? and every player would have an easy time and Pogba wouldn’t be an outstanding performer in said fixtures, yet…

Players of his calibre are judged on their performances. Not on performances against opposition forum posters cherry pick.

I think this is a fair comment. We need the best Paul Pogba in March.

How is it fair to be dismissive of a player’s good performances when the rest of the team struggled in the aforementioned games and “consistency” is a stick he’s incessantly beaten with?

 

[villain]

Believe it or not, I have lots of things to do in my day, and often only post on the trending threads on the United forum. Not that I should explain my logic of where I post to you, but it's important you recognize that I shouldn't need to go round giving posts in every single player performance thread just because I posted a normalized one in the Pogba thread.

Of course you're insecure. In so many pages of this thread recently you have countless posts talking about how other posters treat Paul Pogba differently. I've ignored it but you've now tried to thrust that narrative on to me when I've said nothing unreasonable about him.

Because my point is about consistency and that's impossible to gauge or prove when a player is injured 50% of the time. This really isn't rocket science at this stage.

Bruno's remit is to take far more risks and if he's scoring/assisting whilst doing it then it's hard to argue against that. Yes his form did drop - that I certainly agree with. But he joined in Jan of the season prior - was consistent throughout that season and then all the way into the end of the calendar year. That is already more sustained week in/week out consistency than Pogba showed for us.

Pogba shouldn't need to be playing one-twos all the time to be a great player for us. The gripes a lot of the time we've had with him is at his worst, he can often be laborious, over dribble, and be positionally loose. Bruno can also be like this too but Bruno gets numbers in even at his worst and has a far more tangible impact on the game. If you put Pogba in Bruno's position he wont be able to deliver the same ridiculous numbers. So out of the two it's only sustainable for Bruno to stay in my opinion.

I'd like Pogba to stay on as an option and to play against the flat track bully sides but not for the quoted salaries. The excitement I get from Pogba potentially staying is not near as the excitement of us getting say, a proper 6 like Rice. Thats' where I stand with him - good player, supremely talented but never showed the full extent. Indifferent if he stays or goes. The indifferent point is consistent across Maguire, Shaw, AWB, McTominay and Rashford too - but I'm not going to distract my working day any further by posting in each of their performance thread to highlight it.

You don't have to explain your logic to me, but maybe if you didn't go around trying to call me names or put words in my mouth then we wouldn't have had to get so granular on this particular issue. I'm not a conspiracy theorist and i'm not insecure, i'm someone who logs on here to discuss football & engage in debates about the team that we all love.

There's a reason why it says to criticise the post, not the poster - I could've called you a number of things but I chose not to because I'm assuming we're both over the age of 12.
If you can't have a debate with someone who is also passionate about our team without feeling the need to try to belittle or call them names or whatever else, then you can let me know now, otherwise I'm going to presume we can continue.

How is it impossible to gauge consistency if someone is injured? Presumably if he came back from injury and didn't play well for a number of games, he would be criticised not only for being injury prone but also not being able to snap back into form quickly, right?
And again, you keep saying 50% of the time, he hasn't been injured for 6 months in the last 12.

If you agree that Bruno's form has dropped, then I don't understand how you're saying he's been consistent for 2 years. Either his form has been consistent for 2 years, or he was consistent for 1 year (Jan - Dec) went patchy from Jan up until the end of the season (yes, he was still scoring & assisting) and has also struggled from Oct - Jan largely.
Which goes back to my point - nobody in his team has managed to maintain a level of consistency for their entire time here.

Bruno & Pogba are two different players, and I'm not looking for Pogba to do what Bruno does, I can appreciate the risky maverick that Bruno is, & I can appreciate the silky playmaker that Pogba is, I don't pit them against each other, and rather think they bring out the best in each other because they know that 75% of the others on the pitch are nowhere near their level. So no I wouldn't expect Bruno numbers if you put Pogba in Bruno's position, that's too simplistic of a way to look at football imo.

As for salaries, I think it's clear that most football fans don't have a clue about football players salaries and what they're paid - but rather the media sensationalise numbers because they too, only have estimates, and having had a small insight into some Championship player contracts really put things into perspective.
Overall, do I think Pogba is worth 500k a week? No. I don't think anyone should earn that much, even if you're Messi. Do I also think if we signed him and every outlet says "Pogba will earn up to 500k a week" that he will actually earn that much every week? No, not even close.
Do I even care what we pay our players in the grand scheme of things? Not really, it's not my money and if we bankrupt the Glazers by pumping money into the football side of things in our club, I'd actually be happier.

 

[VP89]

You don't have to explain your logic to me, but maybe if you didn't go around trying to call me names or put words in my mouth then we wouldn't have had to get so granular on this particular issue. I'm not a conspiracy theorist and i'm not insecure, i'm someone who logs on here to discuss football & engage in debates about the team that we all love.

There's a reason why it says to criticise the post, not the poster - I could've called you a number of things but I chose not to because I'm assuming we're both over the age of 12.
If you can't have a debate with someone who is also passionate about our team without feeling the need to try to belittle or call them names or whatever else, then you can let me know now, otherwise I'm going to presume we can continue.

How is it impossible to gauge consistency if someone is injured? Presumably if he came back from injury and didn't play well for a number of games, he would be criticised not only for being injury prone but also not being able to snap back into form quickly, right?
And again, you keep saying 50% of the time, he hasn't been injured for 6 months in the last 12.

If you agree that Bruno's form has dropped, then I don't understand how you're saying he's been consistent for 2 years. Either his form has been consistent for 2 years, or he was consistent for 1 year (Jan - Dec) went patchy from Jan up until the end of the season (yes, he was still scoring & assisting) and has also struggled from Oct - Jan largely.
Which goes back to my point - nobody in his team has managed to maintain a level of consistency for their entire time here.

Bruno & Pogba are two different players, and I'm not looking for Pogba to do what Bruno does, I can appreciate the risky maverick that Bruno is, & I can appreciate the silky playmaker that Pogba is, I don't pit them against each other, and rather think they bring out the best in each other because they know that 75% of the others on the pitch are nowhere near their level. So no I wouldn't expect Bruno numbers if you put Pogba in Bruno's position, that's too simplistic of a way to look at football imo.

As for salaries, I think it's clear that most football fans don't have a clue about football players salaries and what they're paid - but rather the media sensationalise numbers because they too, only have estimates, and having had a small insight into some Championship player contracts really put things into perspective.
Overall, do I think Pogba is worth 500k a week? No. I don't think anyone should earn that much, even if you're Messi. Do I also think if we signed him and every outlet says "Pogba will earn up to 500k a week" that he will actually earn that much every week? No, not even close.
Do I even care what we pay our players in the grand scheme of things? Not really, it's not my money and if we bankrupt the Glazers by pumping money into the football side of things in our club, I'd actually be happier.

I got to your point about Bruno and realized you're making things up that I didnt say again.

Lets not bother, you love Pogba, he can do no wrong. I'm getting back to my work now.

 

[villain]

Bruno was consistent from the second half of the season he joined (Jan transfer) and the whole of the next season in my opinion.

I've seen Bruno done it for 2 years

Now i'm making things up that you didn't say, even though you did actually say it.

I do love our players, you're right. Strange that, being a fan and all. Have fun at work.

 

[Jeppers7]

You really need to stop trying to create a conspiracy against Paul Pogba versus other players, it's getting extremely tiresome.

Again, you're making up what I said. I said he hasn't played well in every game since his return. This is a Pogba performance thread, not a post-match thread. Why are you being so insecure about fair Pogba critiques? I've said his return has been good multiple times for fecksake. Just pointing out there's no need to go overboard.

Paul Pogba drifting out of games isn't a brand new occurrence post injury. It's a flaw in his game since I've ever watched him even for Juventus.

He wasn't that consistent in 17/18, he was actually tailing off in the second half of the season if I recall correctly - but it was certainly one of his better seasons for us. And stop talking about the last 12 months - the fact that you outright ignore he's been injured 50% of the time and returns with 5-6 good games at a go, shows you are not understanding my point.

Again, no. Maguire's second half of last season is about as much prolonged form that Pogba has ever shown for us in one single go. Luke Shaw was consistent throughout the entirety of last season pretty much week in week out. Bruno was consistent from the second half of the season he joined (Jan transfer) and the whole of the next season in my opinion. There's a few examples. Pogba I'd want to be fit for starters, and when fit, show that sort of consistency. Rashford was showing consistency for a solid 18 months.

I'm not asking for the world here - this should be reasonable for a player of his talent.

Is he doing well right now? YES <-- please note this before you make up a narrative otherwise.
Is he going to stay consistent? TBC. This is my gripe with him during his time here. For HIS level I expect greater. I don't really care if McT or Fred or our academy stars who are developing aren't as consistent because his barometer should be greater than that. That's why we bought him, to take us a level above.

Absolute bollocks

 

[VP89]

Now i'm making things up that you didn't say, even though you did actually say it.

I do love our players, you're right. Strange that, being a fan and all. Have fun at work.

He has been good for 2 years. We can call it a day, but it really astounds me how Pogba can actually do no wrong in your books. I rarely see posters dig their heels in so deep in providing all types of context for fluctuating form.

 

[villain]

He has been good for 2 years. We can call it a day, but it really astounds me how Pogba can actually do no wrong in your books. I rarely see posters dig their heels in so deep in providing all types of context for fluctuating form.

That wasn't what we were discussing though, Bruno has been great since he's arrived here, i'm not saying otherwise.
The question was consistency, you said he's been consistent for 2 years (as a barometer for Pogba apparently not having prolonged periods of consistency) he has not, which we both seemingly agreed upon, after a few back & forths, then you suddenly made out as though I was saying something you were not, but I was directly quoting you.

Now you're making it seem as though i'm bending over backwards to defend Pogba, when all I'm doing is pointing out that every player in our squad has had periods of inconsistency, because we are not good enough and haven't been good enough since SAF retired, which is a pretty objective assessment of our team, is it not?
This is just a normal debate, and maybe if you didn't insist on trying to call me a conspiracy theorist, or insecure, or whatever else and actually read what I'm saying you wouldn't have these incorrect notions of me based on my posts.

I've already admitted that Pogba hasn't been consistent for his entire time here, I never said otherwise - what I said was he's one of 4/5 players who have been more consistent at playing better for longer periods of time. The problem is our team is so disjointed and full of players whose ability is no where close, and their consistency is also below average, I didn't even discuss the merry-go-round of managers & transfers we've had. Nothing about our club has been consistent, stable, or even steady for the last 9 years so it's no wonder that even our best players (Bruno, Pogba, De Gea, Rashford [probably wishful thinking with that one]) struggle to be consistent for prolonged periods in that time.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Calm your tits. I thought he was the one losing the ball straight after kick off, the commentator said it was him. If it was Bruno, then my bad. Stream wasn't perfect so couldn't clearly see who it was. But it looked like Pogba was the one giving the ball away straight after kick off after they scored.

Sorry. I don't buy this excuse one bit..

And spare me the agenda bs, I said he was fantastic the first 45, as he was.

Child please......

 

[AmanNits04]

Phenomenal player when in form. I hope he signs the new contract and if he doesn't, I just hope the media circus gets over pretty quickly and he goes to his new club. United don't really need another media circus around him or contracts.

 

[VP89]

That wasn't what we were discussing though, Bruno has been great since he's arrived here, i'm not saying otherwise.
The question was consistency, you said he's been consistent for 2 years (as a barometer for Pogba apparently not having prolonged periods of consistency) he has not, which we both seemingly agreed upon, after a few back & forths, then you suddenly made out as though I was saying something you were not, but I was directly quoting you.

We did not agree on Bruno not being consistent for 2 years. You said his form dropped after November but I would still argue he maintained a level of consistency beyond that. Just it's crazy difficult to actually sustain that incredible form he had for 11 months. Then I showed that even if we took that, it's a solid calendar year pretty much of week in week out consistency which Pogba never showed for us.

Now you're making it seem as though i'm bending over backwards to defend Pogba, when all I'm doing is pointing out that every player in our squad has had periods of inconsistency, because we are not good enough and haven't been good enough since SAF retired, which is a pretty objective assessment of our team, is it not?

You are though.
Periods of inconsistency is fine, but prolonged periods of no consistency is another matter. Especially when you're Paul Pogba and not Fred.

This is just a normal debate, and maybe if you didn't insist on trying to call me a conspiracy theorist, or insecure, or whatever else and actually read what I'm saying you wouldn't have these incorrect notions of me based on my posts.

But you're not reading what I say, you're being a conspiracy theorist by insinuating I treat Pogba harshly just because I don't go into every other player performance thread and go out of my way and say they're inconsistent too.
It's a bit petty, and daft to insinuate. As I say I would post on trending threads more often than not. I havent actually posted in the Pogba performance thread for ages, and when I did last it wasn't even negative The minute I tell some other posters to calm their tits I get a quote from you in next to no time. This isn't a coincidence, you just don't like Pogba being remotely critiqued.

I've already admitted that Pogba hasn't been consistent for his entire time here, I never said otherwise - what I said was he's one of 4/5 players who have been more consistent at playing better for longer periods of time. The problem is our team is so disjointed and full of players whose ability is no where close, and their consistency is also below average, I didn't even discuss the merry-go-round of managers & transfers we've had. Nothing about our club has been consistent, stable, or even steady for the last 9 years so it's no wonder that even our best players (Bruno, Pogba, De Gea, Rashford [probably wishful thinking with that one]) struggle to be consistent for prolonged periods in that time.

The problem is you are failing to recognize he hasn't been consistent enough, by his own standards. His own individual performances have not been at the level they should be over consistent periods. How is it that Luke Shaw, Harry Maguire, Rashford, Martial and Bruno have all been able to show anything between half a season to a full season of solid consistency and Pogba's best in the last 4 years is a 3 month spell from November - January under Ole's interim season? A big part is injury - he's injured 50% of the time. Fine. Lets add injury to the list too, it still goes toward my point that we shouldn't be desperate to keep him.

 

[villain]

We did not agree on Bruno not being consistent for 2 years. You said his form dropped after November - I said even if we took that, it's a solid calendar year pretty much of week in week out consistency which Pogba never showed for us.

You are though.
Periods of inconsistency is fine, but prolonged periods of no consistency is another matter. Especially when you're Paul Pogba and not Fred.


But you're not reading what I say, you're being a conspiracy theorist by insinuating I treat Pogba harshly just because I don't go into every other player performance thread and go out of my way and say they're inconsistent too.
It's a bit petty, and daft to insinuate. As I say I would post on trending threads more often than not. I havent actually posted in the Pogba performance thread for ages, and when I did last it wasn't even negative The minute I tell some other posters to calm their tits I get a quote from you in next to no time. This isn't a coincidence, you just don't like Pogba being remotely critiqued.


The problem is you are failing to recognize he hasn't been consistent enough, by his own standards. His own individual performances have not been at the level they should be over consistent periods.

I said from November last year until about April/May of last season. And his form also dropped from October this season, until the last couple of weeks or so.
You also admitted that his form this season has dropped. So again - that's not 2 years of consistency. That's 1 year.

I don't think you treat Pogba harshly, when have I insinuated that? What I said was, it's ridiculous to pick out one or two posts that are unreasonable on the football forum when 1 out of every 3 posts on the football forum are unreasonable - however, it seems as though you don't have the same appetite to be consistent in other player performance threads.
I don't know you or your posting history, I quote whoever I want because thats the point of the forum.

I've said often that I think Pogba can improve, and show us more than he's capable of - he certainly does that in France and has been consistent with his international Team for the last 4/5 years or so. I don't think it's a coincidence that he struggles in a disjointed team that has had no identity of stability for a decade - and trying to make it out to be a Pogba issue alone, as opposed to looking outwardly and critiquing the players who are consistent at putting in a 4 out 10 performance is what has got us consistently underachieving. And it doesn't matter who we get in to replace Pogba, if he goes, because once again - nobody in this squad has had prolonged levels of consistency.

 

[Ladron de redcafe]

Sorry. I don't buy this excuse on bit..


Child please......

Yeah, I agree. If you're going to make these types of posts and get it wrong, the least you can do is admit as much. Not doing so shows a lack of objectivity and an agenda.

 

[VP89]

I said from November last year until about April/May of last season. And his form also dropped from October this season, until the last couple of weeks or so.
You also admitted that his form this season has dropped. So again - that's not 2 years of consistency. That's 1 year.

It sounds like we have misunderstood each other so lets start again.
Bruno joined us in Jan 2020 and he was pretty much the best player in the league let alone for us for the whole of that campaign left, i.e. half of that season. Then he continued his rampant borderline unsustainable impact until November where yes his form fell but I still saw many consistent performances from him. It's just the case that his impact to be that ridiculous was always going to plateau. Nonetheless even if we take it as the Jan he joined until the end of 2020 - his consistency was unquestionable.

Pogba never did that for us. I would argue Bruno maintained general consistency beyond that, but even if we take the 2020 year of when he joined from Jan to the end of the year, he was week in week out consistent to a degree that was pretty ridiculous.

I don't think you treat Pogba harshly, when have I insinuated that?

By questioning why I post in Pogba when he's inconsistent and not in others.
You want me to go out into the Maguire thread and do the same, and the Shaw thread to do the same, just so that I can go out of my way to say the squad isnt consistent?

Or, would you let it go that I made this point about a player who is on the cusp of leaving us unless we offer a wage FAR beyond his worth? There's a reason I said it here and not other places, because Pogba is the topical player of the season given his contract situation. My post was following the 1 or 2 crazy knee jerk ones saying to offer him silly money. That's it.

 

[Guapa]

Never been his biggest fan but boy when he's in the mood there's no stopping him.Great game yesterday .

 

[superdry]

One of his unplayable games, sadly not often enough of them.

 

[KennyBurner]

We really don't. That would be a terrible move.

I don’t trust in our ability to replace him. I’d just give him the money.

 

[villain]

It sounds like we have misunderstood each other so lets start again.
Bruno joined us in Jan 2020 and he was pretty much the best player in the league let alone for us for the whole of that campaign left, i.e. half of that season. Then he continued his rampant borderline unsustainable impact until November where yes his form fell but I still saw many consistent performances from him. It's just the case that his impact to be that ridiculous was always going to plateau. Nonetheless even if we take it as the Jan he joined until the end of 2020 - his consistency was unquestionable.

Pogba never did that for us. I would argue Bruno maintained general consistency beyond that, but even if we take the 2020 year of when he joined from Jan to the end of the year, he was week in week out consistent to a degree that was pretty ridiculous.

By questioning why I post in Pogba when he's inconsistent and not in others.
You want me to go out into the Maguire thread and do the same, and the Shaw thread to do the same, just so that I can go out of my way to say the squad isnt consistent?

Or, would you let it go that I made this point about a player who is on the cusp of leaving us unless we offer a wage FAR beyond his worth? There's a reason I said it here and not other places, because Pogba is the topical player of the season given his contract situation.

Right we're saying the same thing, Bruno has been consistent for 1 year. It's just that initially you said that he's been consistent for 2 years, which I disagreed with and said it's been 1 year, not 2 - then you randomly said that you didn't say he's been consistent for 2 years.
So we both agree, Bruno's ridiculous year was a prolonged period of consistency where week in week out he was performing at minimum 8 out of 10 - and yes I think we all knew it wasn't going to last forever. I would argue that between Nov and April/May of last year, he had peaks & lows where he would still perform 8 out of 10, but sometimes he would also perform 4 out of 10. Likewise, he's had similar weeks this season also.
I'm not saying Bruno has been bad, or his performances after his first calendar year haven't been good enough - all i'm saying is, his form hasn't been consistent for 2 years in response to you initially saying it has. That's it. I think we can put that one to bed.

I say all of that to say, that every player in this team, is going to have patchy form - because we are a patchy team with no stability. I'm also reiterating because I don't want you to think that I think Pogba can do no wrong, that Pogba hasn't shown his best level during his entire time here.
I do think it's a lazy narrative when people say "he performs well for 3 games then drops off", I just think that's people parroting the opinions of the likes of Goldbridge and repeating things that they think sound cool. That's a general point about all football fans and its in relation to any player, also i'm not talking about you specifically (again, I don't know your posting history), but that's a particular trend I see now where most fans don't care to actually analyse football, they stick to narratives and hold on to stats only. Again, speaking generally.

Pogba has been just as consistent as everyone else in the squad, which is overall inconsistent. You only managed to name about 5 players, and those players performed consistently well for less than 2 years. Again, not a surprise to me - until we get a DOF, a coach with a philosophy, and sign players to fit in that philosophy we're going to continue to see this trend.

I only questioned why you would care about unreasonable posts in the football forum, you could've said it in the Maguire, McT, Elanga thread etc it doesn't matter to me. Almost every post in this forum is unreasonable, if that's what you're gonna focus on, you'll be here all day & night.

As for the wages, like I said - most fans don't actually know the ins & outs of player salaries & their contracts, that's another thing which is sensationalised by the media & youtube/social media personalities to uphold narratives & get rage clicks and goes back to my general disdain for the average football fan.

 

[VP89]

Right we're saying the same thing, Bruno has been consistent for 1 year. It's just that initially you said that he's been consistent for 2 years, which I disagreed with and said it's been 1 year, not 2 - then you randomly said that you didn't say he's been consistent for 2 years.
So we both agree, Bruno's ridiculous year was a prolonged period of consistency where week in week out he was performing at minimum 8 out of 10 - and yes I think we all knew it wasn't going to last forever. I would argue that between Nov and April/May of last year, he had peaks & lows where he would still perform 8 out of 10, but sometimes he would also perform 4 out of 10. Likewise, he's had similar weeks this season also.
I'm not saying Bruno has been bad, or his performances after his first calendar year haven't been good enough - all i'm saying is, his form hasn't been generally consistent for 2 years in response to you initially saying it has. That's it. I think we can put that one to bed.

I think he was as consistent as one could be expected to be over the 2 year spell, forgiving patches of poor form (and I mean patches by way of 2-3 game stretches, not anything longer). I disagreed with you that he wasn't consistent for 2 years but in the interest of continuing the wider point, I just said "even if you took it as 2020, he demonstrated more sustained consistency than Pogba ever did".

I say all of that to say, that every player in this team, is going to have patchy form - because we are a patchy team with no stability. I'm also reiterating because I don't want you to think that I think Pogba can do no wrong, that Pogba hasn't shown his best level during his entire time here.

But Pogba has been the most patchy and least capable of stringing together a season of good solid form. The key point in my side of the debate is that Shaw, Martial, Rashford and Bruno have been able to do this. Why could Pogba almost never do this in a United shirt?

I do think it's a lazy narrative when people say "he performs well for 3 games then drops off", I just think that's people parroting the opinions of the likes of Goldbridge and repeating things that they think sound cool.

Goldbridge is a big Pogba fan, weird of you to point to him but in any case, Pogba has a chronic issue of disappearing after patches of 6-7 good games. And people love to use these patches to extrapolate from - for example his WC form being a representation what he's about, when in reality these cups suit him for a T because purple patch form gets players far.

Pogba has been just as consistent as everyone else in the squad, which is overall inconsistent. You only managed to name about 5 players, and those players performed consistently well for less than 2 years. Again, not a surprise to me - until we get a DOF, a coach with a philosophy, and sign players to fit in that philosophy we're going to continue to see this trend.

I don't think he has. I named 3-4 players who were capable of showing longer stretches of week in, week out consistency.

 

[villain]

I think he was as consistent as one could be expected to be over the 2 year spell, forgiving patches of poor form (and I mean patches by way of 2-3 game stretches, not anything longer). I disagreed with you that he wasn't consistent for 2 years but in the interest of continuing the wider point, I just said "even if you took it as 2020, he demonstrated more sustained consistency than Pogba ever did".

But Pogba has been the most patchy and least capable of stringing together a season of good solid form. The key point in my side of the debate is that Shaw, Martial, Rashford and Bruno have been able to do this. Why could Pogba almost never do this in a United shirt?

Goldbridge is a big Pogba fan, weird of you to point to him but in any case, Pogba has a chronic issue of disappearing after patches of 6-7 good games. And people love to use these patches to extrapolate from - for example his WC form being a representation what he's about, when in reality these cups suit him for a T because purple patch form gets players far.

I don't think he has. I named 3-4 players who were capable of showing longer stretches of week in, week out consistency.

You think Bruno has been consistent for longer, I think it’s been 1 year of consistency, half a season of patchiness & this season has been a mix of patchiness & inconsistency.

We disagree that Pogba has held periods of consistency, i don’t see how you can think Shaw & Maguire have had longer periods of consistency whilst simultaneously thinking Pogba hasn’t - but that’s probably why we disagree in the first place.

The Goldbridge comment was general and used as an example, I don’t waste my time listening to him or others like him, my point was about the level of analysis by the average football fan is simply parroting the opinions of others like Goldbridge. It wasn’t in relation to Pogba specifically, I’m pretty sure I said it was a general comment about 3 times.

And the fact that you were only able to name less than a handful of players goes back to my wider point that the entire team isn’t good enough and isn’t conducive to being consistent or reliable for any prolonged period of time.

 

[VP89]

You think Bruno has been consistent for longer, I think it’s been 1 year of consistency, half a season of patchiness & this season has been a mix of patchiness & inconsistency.

We disagree that Pogba has held periods of consistency, i don’t see how you can think Shaw & Maguire have had longer periods of consistency whilst simultaneously thinking Pogba hasn’t - but that’s probably why we disagree in the first place.

Shaw was consistent week in week out last season. Pogba was injured half of last season. He did not demonstrate the consistency required - he was slow in coming back when he was around (owing to his covid recovery).
Bruno was showing week in week out consistency for at least 1 year that we can both agree on.
Rashford showed around 18 months of solid consistency - measured on a different barometer but nonetheless it's hard to argue against a player with 22 goals followed by 21 goals in 2 seasons being consistent for longer than at least a season/season and a half. He definitely tailed downward in the final 6 months of last season though (hence why I said 18 months).
Martial showed a season of solid consistency in 19/20.


Pogba doesn't have to be the least consistent player, but he needs to at least show consistency week in week out over the course of a season. And for different reasons each season he cannot - be it the manager, or the system, or covid, or injury.

And the fact that you were only able to name less than a handful of players goes back to my wider point that the entire team isn’t good enough and isn’t conducive to being consistent or reliable for any prolonged period of time.

I'm sorry but what is the expectation here? Maguire was consistent for 2/3rds of last season, I've given examples of Shaw, Rashford, Martial and Bruno who have displayed entire seasons of consistency at some point in their United careers. What more do you want? Varane is new, Greenwood was a kid at the time. Fred/McT? You want them to be the barometer?

I'm a bit lost to be honest. If Pogba is a "baller" as you put it, he should be measured as such. He can't be a baller when it suits and then be victim of circumstance when it suits.

 

[villain]

Shaw was consistent week in week out last season. Pogba was injured half of last season. He did not demonstrate the consistency required - he was slow in coming back when he was around (owing to his covid recovery).
Bruno was showing week in week out consistency for at least 1 year that we can both agree on.
Rashford showed around 18 months of solid consistency - measured on a different barometer but nonetheless it's hard to argue against a player with 22 goals followed by 21 goals in 2 seasons being consistent for longer than at least a season/season and a half. He definitely tailed downward in the final 6 months of last season though (hence why I said 18 months).
Martial showed a season of solid consistency in 19/20.


Pogba doesn't have to be the least consistent player, but he needs to at least show consistency week in week out over the course of a season. And for different reasons each season he cannot - be it the manager, or the system, or covid, or injury.

I'm sorry but what is the expectation here? Maguire was consistent for 2/3rds of last season, I've given examples of Shaw, Rashford, Martial and Bruno who have displayed entire seasons of consistency at some point in their United careers. What more do you want? Varane is new, Greenwood was a kid at the time. Fred/McT? You want them to be the barometer?

I'm a bit lost to be honest. If Pogba is a "baller" as you put it, he should be measured as such. He can't be a baller when it suits and then be victim of circumstance when it suits.

Shaw had a great season last season and 3/4 seasons where he was patchy/injured. Maguire had a great season last season but also showed patches of inconsistency, we’ve discussed Bruno at length. Rashford I wouldn’t say was consistently good week in, week out, i think he had moments of greatness, with moments of quiet and patchy form, along with Martial & Greenwood.
All of that fits in to my wider argument that there is not enough consistency in this club to expect week in week out consistency from our players - now do I expect good performances on a regular enough basis from the likes of Pogba, Bruno, Rashford etc? Yes of course. But I also accept that there are clear gaps in quality in our first XI and it’s unrealistic to expect the likes of Bruno & Pogba to pull everyone else’s performance up every single week. They do it every now & then but successful clubs aren’t run by the star players only, you need quality in depth, or a philosophy where everyone has a role & plays their role. We have neither, and it’s no wonder we’ve struggled to be successful.

That won’t change unless the clubs direction & priorities change, and that’s why I defend our players more often than not because I recognise the problem goes deeper than them, if every quality player falls victim to similar cycles of form.

 

[TsuWave]

Calm your tits. I thought he was the one losing the ball straight after kick off, the commentator said it was him. If it was Bruno, then my bad. Stream wasn't perfect so couldn't clearly see who it was. But it looked like Pogba was the one giving the ball away straight after kick off after they scored.

this is so shameless

 

[Rozay]

I see where you're coming from. He isn't that type of player - perhaps he needs to play in a well settled system and be a very good cog in what is already a well oiled machine.

But he also will need to play in a specific remit and with certain midfield profiles to be successful. And therein lies my issue with Pogba as a footballer, it just feels we are all needing to be too delicate in the conditions required for him show his worth. That's all. I wonder what club can offer him that sort of structure too - perhaps PSG? I feel that league is a step down though and his entire career will be limited to just all eggs in the Champions League basket.

No more or less so than any other player who is not a Scott McTominay type. How do you think, out of curiosity, Iniesta would have fared had he been swapped with Pogba these last 6 years? And it is not as if Pogba has not played consistently well in his career in teams that offer platforms to show his best.

Pogba has never been Roy Keane and never will. As a result, in the right conditions he will be extremely useful, in the wrong - not very good. Similar to Ozil. Obviously a great footballer. Put him in a team that is the best team, he will look like the best player even. But he belongs solely in dominant sides, for better or worse.

Yeah, we've had that argument about Pogba - he's in a dysfunctional team. I'll add that to the "he needs better colleagues", "he needs a better manager", "he needs to be in a different position" list.

If only we had an example of a midfielder coming into a dysfunctional team like ours 3 years ago from a foreign league and showing better consistency from the off.

But the conversation was about against the very best teams. I’m not sure who this example you think you have that has come in and excelled regularly against Liverpool, City and the likes.

 

[Jeppers7]

I’m baffled by reading posters claim that players like Rashford, Maguire and Martial have performed more consistently than Pogba. That’s an absolute nonsense. Pure agenda driven. This narrative that Pogba hasn’t been as consistent as everyone else in his time here is plain wrong. It’s all based on positive/negative regard.

Bruno seems to always be the stick to beat Pogba due to the positive regard around him. His impact in terms of numbers dwarf Pogba’s. Any forwards always will. That doesn’t mean he’s played more consistently or played to a higher level. Positive regard will tell a lot of posters that he has, negative regard for Pogba will blind people to believing he hasn’t produced long periods of good form in every season. One thing is indisputable is that he’s never had a sustained period of poor form as long and as bad as Bruno from last January to this January.

Bruno’s consistent week in week out full year? You only need to look back at performance threads for that time to see that never happened either. I don’t blame him for that playing for us in this period, but it didn’t happen.

Just for examples sake:-

From his first season these games were consecutive and he played poorly to varying extents in all, or to put it another way…..he didn’t play well 6 games running even in his honeymoon period. We all heard the ‘he’s tired’ excuses at the time


Southampton
Palace
Chelsea
West Ham
Leicester
Copenhagen

Anyone who thinks he played consistently well from January to May last season, or has played consistently well this season is having a laugh. That being said we have been and to some extent continue to be a bit of a mess. So it’s to be expected that ALL our players are not consistently good enough and we shouldn’t only imply that on one player. Especially one who has produced good performances more consistently than most in the past year.

This isn’t meant to be a dig at Bruno, I think he’s been an excellent signing. But saying he’s been consistent week in week out for full years etc is bollocks.

 

[SATA]

The only player on both sides that wasn’t affected by the wet conditions of the pitch and did whatever he wanted with the ball, it’s utter ridiculous

We really need to keep Pogba and play a trio of him/Bruno/Sancho with a new top striker next season as the front quartet

 

[Poborsky's hair]

Never seen a player so aware of what's around him. It's like he sees the game from Fifa perspective and knows what to do at what moment put enough pace on the ball, take on a player at the right time with some superb individual skill. Let's enjoy him while he's still here. With him in the team you know you always have a chance for something. Just play him with freedom.

 

[Jeppers7]

To those claiming he isn’t overly criticised….If Pogba loses the ball anywhere on the pitch, like Lingard and Bruno vs Leeds….he’s getting roundly criticised for it. Particularly the Bruno one, if he loses the ball on the edge of his box and lies on the floor while the other team score he’s getting absolute pelters en masse, especially if it was the second time that season it had led to a goal and the umpteenth time it had led to a chance for the opposition. Media don’t help in this respect…Keane would’ve savaged him, Neville would be on him like a rash etc.

I’ve seen people on here blaming Pogba for Leeds goals by virtue of the fact he was on the pitch. That for me is the difference between the way Pogba is viewed vs other players and why I’ll defend him because to me it’s unjust. No players should be getting criticised for simply getting tackled or perhaps in both cases fouled, but that wouldn’t matter one jot for Pogba.

The guy gets slated for getting sent off vs Liverpool, Some have posted that he did it on purpose because he couldn’t be arsed. He got played a hospital pass and made an effort to win the ball. We all know if that passage of play was the other way around then Pogba would STILL be the one getting blamed for Bruno getting sent off.

It’s all positive/negative regard….We all know Roy Keane, Paul Scholes, Wayne Rooney get carried off the pitch on the fans shoulders for that tackle vs Liverpool at 0-5 and it’s used as an example of how everyone should have approached the game.

Yet here we are yet again, five good games back from injuries and we can’t talk about the good performances. First rule of Pogba thread I guess.

 

[The Substitute]

I would love to see stats of big chances created from the team with and without pogba on a reasonably comparable opponents.

To me, his biggest strength is the gaps he creates in the opposition, the sublime passes braking up their defense.

Bruno on the other hand is completely different, and he gets standing applause because he racks up the numbers. He is as a wild guess likely 30+ more wasteful with the ball as well and roams around wherever he wants.

It's always a Bruno vs Pogba discussion, but truth be told they are not comparable.