[VP89]

Not sure why you’re simultaneously arguing that international form/performances are irrelevant in the same post that you discuss his international form/performances.

In my opinion, they’re clearly relevant. If he was consistently looking like a £90m footballer every time he plays for France then that would give a lot of weight to the argument that both Mourinho and Ole have been playing him in the wrong position, wrong tactics, or with the wrong team-mates (or all three) Which are points that have been made a zillion times in this thread.

When he flatters to deceive for club and country (and I’m 100% in agreement with you that he wasn’t actually all that impressive in the WC) then it looks more and more that he just isn’t as good a player as we hoped he would be.

Even his time at Juve is nowhere near as impressive as you’d think. His statistics improved, on almost every single metric, after moving to United.

So the expansion of his performances in a France shirt was just to explain it can't be extrapolated to club form (i.e. having a good World Cup doesn't suggest you're going to have a strong season ahead).

And I agree you have very much hit the nail on the head. You'll find even from my user tag that I have been known to have an issue with the player but it's not a personal gripe, rather it's the long lasting concern that he needs to be in a very particular environment to thrive. I mean, every player needs the right conditions but with him it needs a specific system and specific personnel which is not worth the effort of accommodating for. I dont' think it was ever worth the effort because as you've said, his Juventus form was overrated.

 

[11101]

I would be more interested in seeing data on his high intensity sprints. Would be surprised if it compared favourably to others - particularly without the ball.


Interesting point about Fergie's view - makes a lot of sense. You wonder if he's just too "big" to teach those things now though as one would think Michael Carrick (master of defensive positioning and interceptions) of all people would know how to coach exactly that.

He's about middle of the pack when it comes to sprints.

Carrick could be like Scholes for all we know. Brilliant player but feck all understanding of how or why.

 

[brzez]

I think his biggest problem is his brain, or, lack of. I cannot fathom how a “world class” player can nick the ball from Partey, dribble past a player and then try to put the ball at his right feet because he wants to shoot, when he just should’ve passed the ball to Bruno that would’ve been 1v1 against Holding. A move that probably would mean the equalizer.

The guy has zero awareness, it’s incredible.
I hope he leaves next summer and I hope we find a player that suits us.

 

[Plymouth Red]

Might there be a Commercial Department element to this? Pogba's marketing profile has been sky high since he joined us. I would not be surprised if the Club was encouraged by his/our sponsors to try to keep his profile as high as possible for fear of diminishing his marketing value.
We know that Ed and the Glazers are more tuned into commercial activity than pitch-based issues, so this might be at least a partial consideration for them.

 

[Obiorahking_]

We call him a disaster of a transfer but I think his time here under the circumstances has been more than decent and the #s speak for themselves. Below expectations sure but if we break every thing down season by season can we really say he was that bad?

 

[Hugh Jass]

We call him a disaster of a transfer but I think his time here under the circumstances has been more than decent and the #s speak for themselves. Below expectations sure but if we break every thing down season by season can we really say he was that bad?

He has never near reached his 90 million pound transfer. 35 million, yes.

 

[Jeppers7]

He has never near reached his 90 million pound transfer. 35 million, yes.

Hahahahahahahahahaha

 

[Mr PG]

Fact, we won't get back to last year's heights without him. Bruno is good but he needs someone to advance the ball behind him. One playmaker in the team isn't enough.

 

[Obiorahking_]

He has never near reached his 90 million pound transfer. 35 million, yes.

Be serious. Name one 35 million central midfielder that has done what Pogba has.

 

[Toad]

I think his biggest problem is his brain, or, lack of. I cannot fathom how a “world class” player can nick the ball from Partey, dribble past a player and then try to put the ball at his right feet because he wants to shoot, when he just should’ve passed the ball to Bruno that would’ve been 1v1 against Holding. A move that probably would mean the equalizer.

The guy has zero awareness, it’s incredible.
I hope he leaves next summer and I hope we find a player that suits us.

You can’t say he has zero awareness when some of his passes are some of the best you will see. He is just far too inconsistent

 

[UbicaMekogSrca]

Be serious. Name one 35 million central midfielder that has done what Pogba has.

Modric,Thiago,Kroos...All miles better than 80m PP

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

People that find joy in Pogba playing badly are very strange people IMO.

The glee in this thread is sickening at times, yes he's not playing to his best at the moment we can all agree on that.

Where is the glee? I'm gutted at how badly things have turned out.

The fact is Pogba has overall been a massive let down at Utd and this season in particular he's been fecking appalling. I wish I could be on here praising him every week for how well he's played but that's just not happened. It's shite he's been such a flop, I had such high hopes when we signed him.

He has to go ASAP. Be best for everyone.

 

[windco]

This guy level of performance has been going downhill since Mourinho left , who would have thought.

 

[Obiorahking_]

Modric,Thiago,Kroos...All miles better than 80m PP

Can you read? Would all 3 of those midfielders be worth 35 million in there primes? One of them was litterally the best player in the world at some point.

 

[tenpoless]

People that find joy in Pogba playing badly are very strange people IMO.

The glee in this thread is sickening at times, yes he's not playing to his best at the moment we can all agree on that.

If this is the only season I don't think people would criticize him this much to be honest.
Overall he's been a meh signing, regardless of the price tag.

 

[Jeppers7]

If this is the only season I don't think people would criticize him this much to be honest.
Overall he's been a meh signing, regardless of the price tag.

Who hasn’t ?

 

[tenpoless]

Who hasn’t ?

Bruno is one. Imagine if people said Pogba will be sidelined by Bruno 2 years ago, our transfer record breaking midfielder.

 

[Sparky_Hughes]

People that find joy in Pogba playing badly are very strange people IMO.

The glee in this thread is sickening at times, yes he's not playing to his best at the moment we can all agree on that.

Who is gleeful? People are just fed up with shit show after shit show from him. He is regularly sub par, and add that to the regular bullshit from his agent, his brother, his international manager etc and people are just ready to see the back of him.

 

[Jeppers7]

Bruno is one. Imagine if people said Pogba will be sidelined by Bruno 2 years ago, our transfer record breaking midfielder.

He’s barely been here a season and is very inconsistent during a game. His stats are padded by penalties and he doesn’t score regularly enough from open play. 1 in 10 Hollywood balls come off.

If we’d payed say £120 mill for Bruno we may well be hearing these things more, since price isn’t an issue. He hasn’t been all things great himself I was surprised reading through his thread to see all the above regularly thrown at him.

For what it’s worth I think Bruno is a very good player, I also happen to think Pogba is too.

 

[Jeppers7]

Bruno is one. Imagine if people said Pogba will be sidelined by Bruno 2 years ago, our transfer record breaking midfielder.

We will see about sidelined. A lot of people quick to forget he was out for 7 months and has had Covid have just jumped in two footed to the current situation. I also think this is his last season with us. It hasn’t been great or what was hoped but people thinking Pogba leaving improves us. Haha haha

 

[MikeKing]

This is the problem when certain players get too big for their boots. They need to feel valued and important to perform to their level, yet when their boots can't do the job and they wont get to play because of it, they don't possess the inner confidence or competitive instinct to quickly bounce back into form on their own. It's the danger of the modern game where talented very young players sell for millions because they have built their brand before they have managed to build a strong long-lasting personality appropriate for the professional athlete.

 

[Deleted 112447]

Bruno has 45 pages while Pogba is on 76 after 11 games. This should be called the PP fan/hate club

 

[MikeKing]

Bruno has 45 pages while Pogba is on 76 after 11 games. This should be called the PP fan/hate club

I'm sure Bruno would have even more pages if he performed the way Pogba has so far this season. On considering that if he'd fail here, all the people who want Ole out would have so much ammo, i'd imagine the thread to be overloaded with hysteria. However, Bruno is performing very well, Pogba isn't. Also Pogba wants out of the club. Any player who makes himself that much of a talking point will be talked about. It is a fan/hate thing for many sure but the Pogba drama seems to almost be the go-to for the media to just spark a talking point during the international break. It's rather silly if you ask me.

 

[Jeppers7]

I'm sure Bruno would have even more pages if he performed the way Pogba has so far this season. On considering that if he'd fail here, all the people who want Ole out would have so much ammo, i'd imagine the thread to be overloaded with hysteria. However, Bruno is performing very well, Pogba isn't. Also Pogba wants out of the club. Any player who makes himself that much of a talking point will be talked about. It is a fan/hate thing for many sure but the Pogba drama seems to almost be the go-to for the media to just spark a talking point during the international break. It's rather silly if you ask me.

Bruno performed very well in his last game.

 

[tenpoless]

He’s barely been here a season and is very inconsistent during a game. His stats are padded by penalties and he doesn’t score regularly enough from open play. 1 in 10 Hollywood balls come off.

If we’d payed say £120 mill for Bruno we may well be hearing these things more, since price isn’t an issue. He hasn’t been all things great himself I was surprised reading through his thread to see all the above regularly thrown at him.

For what it’s worth I think Bruno is a very good player, I also happen to think Pogba is too.

really? is that the base of your argument? very weird for you to criticize Bruno from the aspect when Pogba is much worse and on top of that he's stated he wants to leave. You could pad anything to Pogba's stat and still, nothing suggests that he's been world class during his time here whatsoever especially compared to Bruno.

We will see about sidelined. A lot of people quick to forget he was out for 7 months and has had Covid have just jumped in two footed to the current situation. I also think this is his last season with us. It hasn’t been great or what was hoped but people thinking Pogba leaving improves us. Haha haha

Nobody said that. But it will open up ways for other players (or even new ones should we sign any) to be integrated into the squad for sure, like vDB. Than trying the same thing over and over that clearly hasn't worked that well in the past couple of years, that costs us so much in salary, that brings so much drama into the squad.

So much excuse for Pogba and yet you were nitpicking about Bruno's penalty. One haven't contributed all that much after being here for years and another has been an integral part of the team and was one of the reasons why we finished 3rd last season. You can like Pogba without diminishing Bruno's contribution.

 

[Deleted 112447]

I'm sure Bruno would have even more pages if he performed the way Pogba has so far this season. On considering that if he'd fail here, all the people who want Ole out would have so much ammo, i'd imagine the thread to be overloaded with hysteria. However, Bruno is performing very well, Pogba isn't. Also Pogba wants out of the club. Any player who makes himself that much of a talking point will be talked about. It is a fan/hate thing for many sure but the Pogba drama seems to almost be the go-to for the media to just spark a talking point during the international break. It's rather silly if you ask me.

To each their own for sure. I look at the thread from time to time thinking something happened but 99.9% of the time is nothing or the occasional media question about Real where he says it's a great club and then it's turned in to "Pogba wants Madrid" or his national manager saying PP is unhappy because of the injuries, covid and being out of form turned in to Pogba wants out.

It's an amazing circle jerk by the media because they know it becomes a focal point for clicks (youtubers too); fans use it as "evidence" that he wants out and the merry go round goes on. I just don't get how people don't get tired to keep discussing nothing. Even worse, some say they are frustrated by the circus and want him out because of that...well, the circus exists because the media make it as such and it continues because we bite. The whole situation is just all kinds of bizarre to me.

 

[tenpoless]

To each their own for sure. I look at the thread from time to time thinking something happened but 99.9% of the time is nothing or the occasional media question about Real where he says it's a great club and then it's turned in to "Pogba wants Madrid" or his national manager saying PP is unhappy because of the injuries, covid and being out of form turned in to Pogba wants out.

It's an amazing circle jerk by the media because they know it becomes a focal point for clicks (youtubers too); fans use it as "evidence" that he wants out and the merry go round goes on. I just don't get how people don't get tired to keep discussing nothing. Even worse, some say they are frustrated by the circus and want him out because of that...well, the circus exists because the media make it as such and it continues because we bite. The whole situation is just all kinds of bizarre to me.

I don't think it's only because of the circus. It's just the cherry on top. Most of us are grown ups and know how the media works. Pogba simply hasn't performed up to the standard we thought he was capable of for years. That's why people want him out. He used to be not replaceable but not now.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

He’s barely been here a season and is very inconsistent during a game. His stats are padded by penalties and he doesn’t score regularly enough from open play. 1 in 10 Hollywood balls come off.

Since he signed for United Bruno has scored more goals from open play than any other midfielder in the Premier League.

Now carry on telling us about how Pogba gets unfair criticism....

 

[Deleted 112447]

I don't think it's only because of the circus. It's just the cherry on top. Most of us are grown ups and know how the media works. Pogba simply hasn't performed up to the standard we thought he was capable of for years. That's why people want him out. He used to be not replaceable but not now.

I agree that he hasn't performed this season in particular and, he hasn't been first 11 in many games this season because of that. Don't forget though that it took him 20 mins to earn his place back in the team last season after lockdown. He is unfit from a match sharpness POV so far this season; I would not write him off though.

 

[Deleted 112447]

Since he signed for United Bruno has scored more goals from open play than any other midfielder in the Premier League.

Now carry on telling us about how Pogba gets unfair criticism....

Crazy to look to criticize one player to defend another. We should all hope all of our most talented players reach pick form and play their best as it's in the best interest of the club.

 

[tenpoless]

I agree that he hasn't performed this season in particular and, he hasn't been first 11 in many games this season because of that. Don't forget though that it took him 20 mins to earn his place back in the team last season after lockdown. He is unfit from a match sharpness POV so far this season; I would not write him off though.

He should be on his last chance or he'll get in the way of new midfielders like vDB. In the best case scenario I would love both Pogba and Bruno to be at their best in the same team because on paper it looks like a midfield capable of winning anything but the reality seems to suggest otherwise.

 

[ghaliboy]

Since he signed for United Bruno has scored more goals from open play than any other midfielder in the Premier League.

 

[Deleted 112447]

He should be on his last chance or he'll get in the way of new midfielders like vDB. In the best case scenario I would love both Pogba and Bruno to be at their best in the same team because on paper it looks like a midfield capable of winning anything but the reality seems to suggest otherwise.

I don't think Ole has a problem benching him at all. VDB is responsible for VDB if he plays or not.

 

[eire-red]

I don't really get the whole Pogba defence, and the Bruno vs Pogba thing going on. Surely we can all acknowledge that Pogba has flattered to deceive since he arrived, and the level of criticism he's getting now is just a reflection of his declining importance in the squad, combined with the poor performances and the incessant flirting with other clubs.

My view on it is that before, we were so patient with Pogba because he was the only creative spark in an otherwise lacklustre midfield and attack. With the arrival of Bruno, we no longer have to take all the baggage of Pogba because what he can potentially provide is already being provided by Bruno in the team. Therefore, do we need all of the additional nonsense that inevitably will come from the Pogba camp?

I don't know how anyone sees it as a sort of agenda, or a Pogba vs Bruno thing at all. It's just a fact at this stage, Bruno is the match winner we've been hoping that Pogba would materialise into. Now if both could reach a top level, and Pogba could apply himself to contribute in a more effective way so that both could play together, then fantastic. Who wouldn't want to see two world class players in the squad?

The fact of the matter is we've been four years trying to fit the puzzle of how to get the best out of Pogba. Maybe it's not a case of the missing pieces are needed to get the best out of Pogba, maybe it's a case of the puzzle isn't complete because Pogba simply doesn't fit. I know one thing for certain, there's no way in hell he gets in that team ahead of Bruno. If not as a no. 10, then where?

 

[Brwned]

Fact, we won't get back to last year's heights without him. Bruno is good but he needs someone to advance the ball behind him. One playmaker in the team isn't enough.

Agreed. But he's shown nothing this season to indicate he can be that player either. He gets an early pass for suffering from covid but we're surely long past that point. My take is that he can only stay disciplined for a short period of time with a very clear objective on the horizon to motivate him. He's very immature. The World Cup, the post-lockdown period where we needed to get back in the race, those periods of 4 weeks or so where he's happy to subdue his natural instincts for the greater good. After that it seems like he just gets bored and has more interest in having fun on the pitch than grinding out wins. At a team that doesn't spend so much time grinding out wins I'm convinced he'd be spectacular most of the time.

 

[Kajus]

Hahahahahahahahahaha

I agree, 35 million for Pogba is laughable. He's not worth more than 15.

 

[Deleted 112447]

Agreed. But he's shown nothing this season to indicate he can be that player either. He gets an early pass for suffering from covid but we're surely long past that point. My take is that he can only stay disciplined for a short period of time with a very clear objective on the horizon to motivate him. He's very immature. The World Cup, the post-lockdown period where we needed to get back in the race, those periods of 4 weeks or so where he's happy to subdue his natural instincts for the greater good. After that it seems like he just gets bored and has more interest in having fun on the pitch than grinding out wins. At a team that doesn't spend so much time grinding out wins I'm convinced he'd be spectacular most of the time.

No we are not and here is why. The players that are shining now, Fred, Bruno have been utter crap the first 4 or 5 games; that is because of a non existing pre season (something only now people are starting to accept is a critical part of performance). They are now getting decent match sharpness along with the rest and are showing their quality. Pogba has had this problem PLUS Covid PLUS a number of injuries. He is a few games behind the rest in terms of fitness (not just physical but also mental).

To jump to taking any sort of conclusions based on his performances this season is just having feck all understanding of football or just being mean spirited. He clearly has problems in the best of times, but this season, so far, is not the moment to judge. It took him 20 mins last season after lock down to earn his spot in the team and with him we've been on one of our best runs ever (best in the PL that season).

He does have issues with phasing out at times, but the vast majority of criticism comes when he is clearly not fit and that is not fair.

 

[Jeppers7]

really? is that the base of your argument? very weird for you to criticize Bruno from the aspect when Pogba is much worse and on top of that he's stated he wants to leave. You could pad anything to Pogba's stat and still, nothing suggests that he's been world class during his time here whatsoever especially compared to Bruno.


Nobody said that. But it will open up ways for other players (or even new ones should we sign any) to be integrated into the squad for sure, like vDB. Than trying the same thing over and over that clearly hasn't worked that well in the past couple of years, that costs us so much in salary, that brings so much drama into the squad.

So much excuse for Pogba and yet you were nitpicking about Bruno's penalty. One haven't contributed all that much after being here for years and another has been an integral part of the team and was one of the reasons why we finished 3rd last season. You can like Pogba without diminishing Bruno's contribution.

Jesus I think you missed the point

 

[scudetto_boy]

Honestly, the sooner this guy is transferred the better, what a let down!!

 

[Hugh Jass]

Nowhere near matched his fee.