You deliberately forgot to mention that it was Nzonzi who was covering the guy for the goal.
Very, very deliberately. Pogba could have helped out, but there's a very obvious shift of goalposts here.
6
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 42
- Goals
- 6
- Assists
- 6
- Yellow cards
- 9
- Status
Very, very deliberately. Pogba could have helped out, but there's a very obvious shift of goalposts here.
Whether he stays or goes his time at united up to this point is a failure. I want him to succeed here and go down as a great but it's looking very unlikely.
You must feel better about losing to us
Was our 2nd or 3rd team also. Probably the craziest thing that has happened this year!Disaster of the transfer. Over maybe 120m (with salary) for one good game against City.We bought so many duds after Old Man.
Some players have a natural drive, some don't and Fergie used to talk about having the right mentality. Players like Bruno, Arjen Robben, Cristiano Ronaldo combine incredible work-rate with talent and it's up to our scouts to identify that in recruits .Pogba on the other hand has talent but lacks the natural drive and is too much of a joker.
Thing is we know he can play and has played better. Let's give him a chance and not overreact. He's human and not a robot and will recover. Players go through natural dips....not everyone is Cristiano Ronaldo.
Yeah but he's been in a dip for nearly the full 4 years here has been here that's the problem
His defending for the second goal was just awful. He doesn’t help himself. He acknowledged he’s not great defensively but doesn’t seem to try to improve it.
Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard. His off the ball effort and lack of awareness got found out. If he's not on the ball and making passes or making the side tick, how else is he helping the team?
He got a chance starting against Arsenal after putting in a good performance against Leipzig and put in a horror show.
He's put in a lot of effort when there's something to chase or when his tail is up, but that's way too infrequent. He should be imposing his will and putting in the effort every single match, regardless if it's not coming off. Bruno does that, KDB does that, Liverpool's central midfielders do that in their own functional way, Ndombele has shown to do that more often now at Spurs, etc. But it all comes down to mentality. Pogba has all the talent in the world and has class talent, but his mentality doesn't match it. You can't be coasting through so many matches and think it's okay. Most of the time it's a battle in midfield and it's crazy in there, especially with the way teams setup to press from the top, mark the midfield, and try to compress the space from the back (i.e. higher line). The PL is unforgiving in that manner and it's changed the past couple of years while Pogba's been at United. Unfortunately, he hasn't adapted and we're seeing that.
Pogba is someone who really craves attention. In the Arsenal game he really annoyed me as seemed intent on building upon his Lipzeig performance to show how good he is....which resulted in all the flicks and slick moves he was trying (usually those come off when he's fit) before getting dispossessed each and every time. I don't think he takes it too well either when Bruno is getting all the press.
He probably feels he needs to do this as well to get a bigger contract or move to Real Madrid or Juventus. In the end it was a disaster and Jose was right about him. He's not a virus in the sense of being verbally disruptive (even Jose said Pogba is very polite)....Jose meant virus in terms of attitude...which can rub off younger players who might get the wrong impression of what it means to make it tp the top.
You want them feeding off a hard-working Bruno type who doesn't accept mediocrity.
He probably feels he needs to do this as well to get a bigger contract or move to Real Madrid or Juventus. In the end it was a disaster and Jose was right about him. He's not a virus in the sense of being verbally disruptive (even Jose said Pogba is very polite)....Jose meant virus in terms of attitude...which can rub off younger players who might get the wrong impression of what it means to make it tp the top.
You want them feeding off a hard-working Bruno type who doesn't accept mediocrity.
Seems like he had another bad game.
I didn't watch but did he at least play his passes well?
I didn't watch but did he at least play his passes well?
Following yesterdays match it would be beautiful if Ole went out and said, that Pogba can't be happy in a France team that can't even beat Finland at home.
And yes, you guessed it. I am sick and tired of people surrounding Pogba going on and on in the media about how horrible it must be to be Pogba in this United era. Pogbas biggest problem is himself and no one else.
And yes, you guessed it. I am sick and tired of people surrounding Pogba going on and on in the media about how horrible it must be to be Pogba in this United era. Pogbas biggest problem is himself and no one else.
I disagree. Nobody who actually knows has ever said he lacks drive or effort in training or on the pitch. That's just a media narrative.
Some players just aren't suited to a particular style. It happens, I remember the Veron days. The difference with Pogba (aside from the price tag) is the way he reacts to it, he doesn't seem to understand why and it frustrates him, and he's got all these paid idiots in his ear telling him he's perfect and it somebody else's fault. I also don't believe we have coaches in the club who are capable of helping him.
Football is not an individual game.
He just had to stick his right foot out. Or at least try.
You defend as a team. You press as a team.
It's not could have helped out - it's should have!
He played them well straight to the opponent.
Just a bit.
Don't give two hoots if he's crap or world class for France. No idea why people even bring that up anyway. He's absolutely average beyond words when he plays for us. That's all I care about.
I wonder if Ole is thinking "Welcome to my world, Didier"?
Pogba at his best is one of my favourite players both for France and United, however he very rarely plays well and I am now tired of watching him play for United and expecting him to perform well only to be left frustrated and disappointed. I don’t believe he can handle the pace of the premier league, the slower pace in Italy suited him. I believe if he does end up at Real it will be less than 6 months until their fans will turn on him as I think the same issues he has here will come to light there with a set of much less patient fans.
Ultimately his time is up at United and we need to move him on, and I say that as an ardent Pogba fan who wanted the United team built around him. He has been shown up by the hunger and desire of Bruno and will not be missed.
Ultimately his time is up at United and we need to move him on, and I say that as an ardent Pogba fan who wanted the United team built around him. He has been shown up by the hunger and desire of Bruno and will not be missed.
The guy to me looks as thou he has fell out of love with the game, he is slow ponderous and lazy. We all know how talented he is but somehow his body language says feck it I have had enough, maybe the money he has earned has gone to his head. Martial is not a million miles away from that attitude either for me. Do they enjoy playing football or is it just a job, Who knows.
Was this the obituary for the story about his lack of commitment to our club? Maybe Pogba wasn't downing his tools all this time? Could it be that he has been injured and isn't firing on all cylinders yet?
To be continued, I guess...
To be continued, I guess...
A pathetic performance by Pogba and the whole team (except Digne and maybe Thuram for his debut). Nzonzi ans Sissoko were even worst but I think Deschamps left them on the pitch because he'll not play them against Portugal on saturday and Sweden next week. That was really bad.
Take a few moment to think about it. You’ll work it out.
I actually second his point - international appearances should not be a benchmark for club consistency. The World Cup is what, 7 or 8 games? Of which Pogba wasn't standout in all ( certainly in at least 4 of them from what I recall). He hasn't always been superb for France either, I recall him being booed by his own fans in a fixture against Italy in 2018.
In any case, away from Pogba just for a moment, club consistency over the course of a year cannot be extrapolated by how well a player performed in a club tournament.
Spent too much of his career playing too far back, both for France and United.
It’s crystal clear now that he thrived at June due to being played much further forward with little defensive duty and in a top top class midfield. He’s simply not good enough to play futher back.
Needs a move I’d say, cause he’s not taking Bruno’s spot at the top of our midfield. A fresh start at a well performing consistent club, where he’s played at the top of a three will be where he finds his best form again.
It’s crystal clear now that he thrived at June due to being played much further forward with little defensive duty and in a top top class midfield. He’s simply not good enough to play futher back.
Needs a move I’d say, cause he’s not taking Bruno’s spot at the top of our midfield. A fresh start at a well performing consistent club, where he’s played at the top of a three will be where he finds his best form again.
That at least is some sort of accuracy. The wrong sort, but some sort.
Not sure why you’re simultaneously arguing that international form/performances are irrelevant in the same post that you discuss his international form/performances.
In my opinion, they’re clearly relevant. If he was consistently looking like a £90m footballer every time he plays for France then that would give a lot of weight to the argument that both Mourinho and Ole have been playing him in the wrong position, wrong tactics, or with the wrong team-mates (or all three) Which are points that have been made a zillion times in this thread.
When he flatters to deceive for club and country (and I’m 100% in agreement with you that he wasn’t actually all that impressive in the WC) then it looks more and more that he just isn’t as good a player as we hoped he would be.
Even his time at Juve is nowhere near as impressive as you’d think. His statistics improved, on almost every single metric, after moving to United.
I have defended Pogba in the past but currently he would not be in my best eleven for United... all the talent in the world but his attitude is clearly wrong and he's far too lazy. You need players who will go full throttle to defend when your team loses the ball and you can't carry passengers who will just amble back and pass on the defensive burden to their team mates. It's why when Fred and McTominay play together, suddenly we look far more solid. Play either of those players with Pogba and it leaves us exposed because he doesn't help enough.
It's not that he doesn't have the ability to do the defensive work either as every now and then he will show it in a game... but unless you do it every match, you cannot be relied on.
It's not that he doesn't have the ability to do the defensive work either as every now and then he will show it in a game... but unless you do it every match, you cannot be relied on.
What position would Pogba have been in his career if he was a half foot shorter. Some of his defensive work through the years has been so bad you wonder if he was ever really a midfielder or he was just assumed to be based on his size
If Pogba is still struggling physically after Covid surely that would be red flagged by the club's fitness tests?
If he is not meeting his test benchmarks (lung capacity for one) especially after a viral infection he wouldn't be considered for first team selection.
Has it even been confirmed that he was actually sick with the virus? 70% of people who test positive experience mild to no symptoms at all.
Surely even if we had the worst coaches in the world, they must at least tell him to put in a shift defensively, or move the ball quicker, not rocket science.
So while you're right that folks don't know whether he lacks drive in training, he obviously lacks endeavour during games, and that's clear for all to see.
I know where you're going with that and it's absolute tosh. Bruno has come in with the same group of players at United and performed. Pogba hasn't. He's not fooling anyone anymore. He's not a world class player. Having natural ability isn't enough.
Turns out you don’t.
Wow ... enlightening that. Of course stats don't tell the whole story, it might be that he influenced games in Italy in a way that those metrics haven't captured.
I wonder how many people watched him consistently at Juventus and what their views are. I ask because I don't watch the Italian league, however, whenever I watched Juve in the Champions League, he was ok but not special
Same. I didn’t watch Juve either. I do remember him looking very special at United but also had a habit of letting games pass him by. His Juve career looks great as youtube highlights but so would his United career. Even this season you could probably cobble together a two minute video of him looking world class. He’ll always be capable of looking great in moments.
Do explain then. It kind of implied you were saying his form for France (despite this being a huge myth) proves he's world class.
He's up there with everybody else in distance covered stats. It's not that he's not putting the effort in, it's that he is doing the wrong things and is running to the wrong places. A lot of that is coaching.
My personal thought is that Ferguson was right that he wasn't ready (surprise surprise) and he left us too early in his development. He went to the dominant team in a terrible league where he was allowed to do whatever he wanted, and nobody ever taught him how to play properly. Now he's come back here without a key skillset and our own coaches aren't good enough to teach him this late in his career.
How long do we have to keep up the pretence that this guy is a top level footballer? he’s been solidly average for years and years after his early career highs were always tempered by inconsistency that was let go due to his age. Frances domination of the World Cup has completely clouded people’s judgement on him. There are literally hundreds of players who have had higher highs and more consistency during the course of his career,
he was a very very expensive mistake and the sooner he’s somebody else’s problem the better. If we had spent a fortune on Maddison or grealish and got the return Pogba has given ,they would be getting maguire levels of disdain and the idea of trying to build a team around him or talk of going to real Madrid would be absolutely laughed out of every conversation. An instagram generation player who is living off his agents marketing of him as a top player
he was a very very expensive mistake and the sooner he’s somebody else’s problem the better. If we had spent a fortune on Maddison or grealish and got the return Pogba has given ,they would be getting maguire levels of disdain and the idea of trying to build a team around him or talk of going to real Madrid would be absolutely laughed out of every conversation. An instagram generation player who is living off his agents marketing of him as a top player
I would be more interested in seeing data on his high intensity sprints. Would be surprised if it compared favourably to others - particularly without the ball.
Interesting point about Fergie's view - makes a lot of sense. You wonder if he's just too "big" to teach those things now though as one would think Michael Carrick (master of defensive positioning and interceptions) of all people would know how to coach exactly that.
People that find joy in Pogba playing badly are very strange people IMO.
The glee in this thread is sickening at times, yes he's not playing to his best at the moment we can all agree on that.
The glee in this thread is sickening at times, yes he's not playing to his best at the moment we can all agree on that.
- Status