Enjoy lads:
He's ours and i appreciate that every day. Such a unique specimen of a footballer
6
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 42
- Goals
- 6
- Assists
- 6
- Yellow cards
- 9
- Status
He's ours and i appreciate that every day. Such a unique specimen of a footballer
Enjoy lads:
Most talented midfielder I have seen in the post Ronaldinho years.
Paul needs to go on and fulfil his destiny, here or elsewhere.
I was against his signing for two reasons a) the price and b) the fallout with Sir Alex. I was wrong, although it was a huge sum, we got a good player and the supposed fallout was just a difference of opinion to career progression.
I think people just expect him to do everything. He is capable of it but he can't be everywhere at all times. In Ole's caretaker tenure, he produced numbers in Bruno's position. Last season he was deeper but his numbers were compared to Bruno's, which is obviously not a right comparison to make. He makes this team better and his return saw us controlling games.
I think people just expect him to do everything. He is capable of it but he can't be everywhere at all times. In Ole's caretaker tenure, he produced numbers in Bruno's position. Last season he was deeper but his numbers were compared to Bruno's, which is obviously not a right comparison to make. He makes this team better and his return saw us controlling games.
Anyone who doubts his status as one of the best shouldn't be allowed to speak about football period. He is 27 entering his prime years (for midfielders its late) and has already had a better career than most players including some already called legends.
His CV as far as personal accolades/achievements and trophies are concerned is already one of the greatest for midfield players at that age, . and this despite being in a underperforming club for 4 years btw .
When is done playing maybe he will get the respect he deserves
Some of the chances he creates for our forward line and they just waste are criminal. This video has more than a handful of moments which Rashford just completely fluffed great balls/chances created by Pogba.
There was a video titled "Paul Pogba - 50 assists that should've been" by this same youtuber from back when Ibra played for us and my head was hurting at the amount of 1-on-1 situations he managed to put Ibra through and he just wasted them. Shame that video got hit with a copyright notice.
The guy is a special talent.
Why would that be the game you have used to ‘sum up’ a player with hundreds of games then?
You need to watch Pogba more often then.
Name me one player that never loses the ball?
His quarantine is finishing soon, isn't it?
Enjoy lads:
I dont understand how you can be a football fan and not like Pogba, its crazy, the things he can do with the ball is on another level!
Fully agree. Also like how the editor likes skipping to the next scene milliseconds before the ball is lost.
Four pages and the season hasn't even begun. I find these endless arguments tiring...it's the same group of posters who have already made up their minds against Pogba and will never come around so long as he loses possession in any random game, to give them a point to lean on.
All he does is lose the ball eh?
No, but quite frequently, yes.
Just like any other player who dribbles a lot?
Don't worry the editors will be sure to include those seconds where weak Havertz loses the ball consistently in his debut season.
No, not really. There have been dozens of midfielders who like to dribble and don't gift possession to the opponent so frequently (and at times easily).
What has Havertz to do with that?
Don't know what I find cuter, the fact that you think that would provoke me or that you take criticism of Pogba so personally that you feel the need to try it in the first place.Somehow this profligate, serial turner over of possession tends to average high 80’s for pass completion every game too. Suspect that some have just decided that they will prefer to focus on the losses of possession than the positive. I see players (midfield players at that) who lose the ball consistently more frequently than Pogba not targeted for non-stop criticism for loss of possession. Clear picking and choosing.
I'd struggle to think of more than five midfielders who dribble as much and as effectively as Pogba does, let alone dozens who do it better. But okay, who are these?
That's interesting because WhoScored says he just had the season with the highest passing accuracy in his career at 85.5%. I don't know which midfield players you're talking about but there are very few midfielders considered world class who lose the ball as often as Pogba. The only one I can think of is de Bruyne.
The play acting of your post is laughable. If you want to know how Havertz is involved go look at your own fanciful prior posts where you claimed Havertz was a better player when he is not even fit to lace Paul's boots.What has Havertz to do with that?
Who are the other world class midfielders who dribble like Paul does or breaks the press with a barging run like he does? Both attributes which set him apart from any other but can also lead to him losing the ball once or twice.
Dribbling a lot and still losing the ball less often? Right now Thiago, Modric, Athur, de Jong, Wijnaldum, Verratti, Keita, Kovacic, Bernardo Silva, maybe Foden and Puig already from the top of my head. Probably a few more at smaller clubs. If you go back in time a little, you can add Cazorla, David Silva, Gündogan, Iniesta, Xavi, Moussa Dembele, ... it's not really uncommon.
By the way, I'm not arguing those are better players. They are just players that like to dribble a lot and still lose the ball los frequently than Pogba - not only through dispossessions but also dumb passing choices. IMO Pogba still struggles heavily with his decision making. Maneuvers himself into situations in which he has no easy solutions and picks passes that are almost impossible to find the intended receiver far too frequently. He could be world class if he stopped doing that.
Same argument every 2 weeks
Bundesliga fans are so insecure.
It's weird, same argument almost every week.
It's not play acting. I never argued Havertz was better by the way, feel free to look up. But even if I did, I wouldn't be provoked by you criticizing him. But it sure is funny that you go all like "what, he criticized Pogba again? That fecking cnut, I'm gonna write something bad about Havertz, let's see how he likes his own medicine. Payback time, bitch" just because I agreed with someone saying Pogba is a YouTube player
I'm sure if the other midfielders tried as much as him, they would. It's all about balance and decision making. The art is to have a similar impact without losing possession so often. I take 70% of Pogba's attacking impact if it simultaneously means 50% of his possession losses.
It's like a revolving door, I'm curious for when the discussions will eventually break new ground. We need a boom-bust cycle for Pogba discussions.
This is just a list of midfielders who have dribbling as part of their game. I think its incredible to even have the likes of Foden and Wjinaldum, and even Xavi (who was not a player you would describe as a dribbler) in this list as being better dribbles. I can see your caveat about them not necessarily being better players but this is a discussion about Pogba's dribbling ability relative to how other players of the same level perform. No point bringing up an inferior dribbler who attempts fewer dribbles and then saying oh look he loses the ball less. He obviously would.
I think, for this to be reasonable, you must select only players who are dribbling at the same level of frequency as Pogba and also doing it from the sort of central position he does, so no Bernado Silva for example.
In your list of current players, the only comparable players positionally are Thiago, Modric, De Jong, Verratti, Kovacic, Wjinaldum and Arthur. If we can agree on this, then I would like to see statistical evidence that shows that they dribble about the same as Pogba but lose the ball less.
Did you just type any midfielder in a top team you could remember?
Most of the ones you mentioned don't dribble anywhere near as much as a Pogba during a full season.
Big time.
Pogba:
19/20: 1.7 dribbles per game, 2 times dispossessed, 14.5% misplaced passes
18/19: 1.5 dribbles per game, 2.5 times dispossessed, 17.2% misplaced passes
Thiago:
19/20: 3 dribbles per game, 0.8 times dispossessed, 9.5% misplaced passes
18/19: 1.9 dribbles per game, 0.9 times dispossessed, 8.2% misplaced passes
Modric:
19/20: 1.4 dribbles per game, 0.9 times dispossessed, 11.4% misplaced passes
18/19: 1.6 dribbles per game, 1.2 times dispossessed, 11.1% misplaced passes
De Jong:
19/20: 1.6 dribbles per game, 1 times dispossessed, 8.2% misplaced passes
18/19: 2 dribbles per game, 0.9 times dispossessed, 8.9% misplaced passes
Source: WhoScored. Hope you don't expect me to enlist that data for every player on the list.
I'm also not criticizing Pogba's dribbling/passing skills. I'm criticizing his decision making. The players I named aren't necessarily better dribblers and passers. But they maneuver themselves in dead ends less often and pick their passes wisely. Pogba is someone who has great plays but also incredibly stupid ones. That's what we meant with "YouTube player" because you can easily ignore the dumb stuff he produces that way. And in my opinion, many people in here do exactly that.
No, if I did just type in midfielders from top teams, the list would be much longer. Or did you read names like Kroos, Rakitic, Pjanic, Kimmich, Witsel, Goretzka, Busquets, etc.? Those players have even fewer possession losses on average than the ones I named.
They are all over the place. In the Sancho thread, in the Thiago thread and even a Paul Pogba thread! Such precious
I was watching one of your favourites the other day in Thiago and all I could think of was you as I saw him making stray passes. There are also very few midfielders who create as many chances as Pogba from deep, but of course, let’s choose not to focus on that.
How can he be dispossed more than he attempted dribbles? That number should only be maximum equal to the number of attempts and even at that it would mean that he completes no dribbles at all... doesn't seem to add up.
Edit: never mind, I was reading that as attempted dribbles.
With same tiresome arguments. fecking hell, difference between 85% and 88-89% pass completion is 2 passes as players play around 65-68 passes per game. It's just abuse of stats.
I'ljust copy one of my post from the same thread and same argument.
Good post. Also there is a clever play with stats and percentages. For example, if a player completes 8/10 passes and other player completes 9/10 passes, percentage wise there is a difference of 10% but in raw numbers it's just 1 more misplaced pass.
On an average midfielders play around 70 passes, if one player completes 60 passes and other player completes 65 passes then percentage wise it's 85% completion vs 92%. But it's just 5 more completed passes and no one even knows in which area those extra passes are completed. Usually deeper midfielders plays lot of short passes with CBs.
I tried to take few relevant stats for the players compared (last 3 seasons)
Some of the criticism is weird as the points raised are Pogba vs mix of 3-4 midfielders.
He doesn't dribble more than Modric/Thiago, he doesn't create as many chances as Kroos, his goal scoring record is no better than KdB . It's all mashed up, cherry picking better stats from 3-4 CMs and then point out how Pogba is not better than them.
Anyways, Pogba misplaces around 5-6 passes more than other 3 CMs on an average but his quality of chances is always better than other 3 midfielders, this season and last , his expected assists per 90 mins is almost same as other 3 combined.
Is 5-6 passes worth what Pogba brings to the team?
Goals from Open play Pogba 13 Kroos + Modric 16 Kroos + Thiago 16 Modric + Thiago 14
Assists (Open Play) Pogba 21 Kroos + Modric + Thiago 26 Kroos + Modric 19 Kroos + Thiago 12 Modric + Thiago 21
XA/90 Pogba 0.56 Kroos + Modric 0.69 Kroos + Thiago 0.55 Modric + Thiago 0.64
Btw, again this is not to say Pogba > any midfielder, just to point out how midfielders are different and contribute is so many other ways. There is no need to take one particular attribute from each midfielder to compare them with Pogba.
See, that's exactly the point why it is so important to retain possession in the midfield. Kroos has 93.5% passing accuracy, Pogba has 85.5%. The difference is "only" 8%, but it means Pogba plays 14.5 misplaced passes per 100 while Kroos only plays 6.5. This means that Pogba loses the ball more than twice as often as Kroos. It's naive to think that this makes no difference.
Pogba:
19/20: 1.7 dribbles per game, 2 times dispossessed, 14.5% misplaced passes, 3 assists, 1.9 kp
Thiago:
19/20: 3 dribbles per game, 0.8 times dispossessed, 9.5% misplaced passes, 0 asst, 0.8 kp
Modric:
19/20: 1.4 dribbles per game, 0.9 times dispossessed, 11.4% misplaced passes, 7 asst. 1.3 kp
De Jong:
19/20: 1.6 dribbles per game, 1 times dispossessed, 8.2% misplaced passes, 2 asst, 0.9 kp
@Zehner, I concede that there are a few more efficient dribbles than Pogba, and indeed these four make up the list of 5 players I referenced. However, more importantly, Pogba has much better output for all his so-called "dumb passes". Meaning his risk-taking approach pays off.
19/20: 1.7 dribbles per game, 2 times dispossessed, 14.5% misplaced passes, 3 assists, 1.9 kp
Thiago:
19/20: 3 dribbles per game, 0.8 times dispossessed, 9.5% misplaced passes, 0 asst, 0.8 kp
Modric:
19/20: 1.4 dribbles per game, 0.9 times dispossessed, 11.4% misplaced passes, 7 asst. 1.3 kp
De Jong:
19/20: 1.6 dribbles per game, 1 times dispossessed, 8.2% misplaced passes, 2 asst, 0.9 kp
@Zehner, I concede that there are a few more efficient dribbles than Pogba, and indeed these four make up the list of 5 players I referenced. However, more importantly, Pogba has much better output for all his so-called "dumb passes". Meaning his risk-taking approach pays off.
Yes but they don't play 100 passes per game. You can just go with they play 140 misplaced passes for every 1000 passes but they dont play that many. Kroos misplaces 5 passes per game, Pogba 10. That's what matters, not projections where you calculate based on what number it would be if they play 100 or 1000 passes.
It's naive to ignore every other positives and stick to this ridiculous point but then I don't expect anything else from you. The fact that you ignored goals, assists, xA, key passes from open play but somehow just came up with "pass completion bs" sums up your argument.
4-1-2-1-2 with Paul at 8 and Bruno at 10 behind Rashord&Martial maximize the potential of both Paul and Bruno. It is very simple to me. Anything outside of that would limit both but mostly Paul.
Paul remains the most talent midfield in the world. I cant see anyone close
Paul remains the most talent midfield in the world. I cant see anyone close
But they don't dribble as much as Pogba with few exceptions. Pogba for 4 seasons from 2014 to 2018 made on average 3 dribbles per 90 min, this's very unique to him as a midfielder. Possession losses also come from more than just unsuccessful dribbles. Creativity plays a big role, and he again is more of a risk-taker than pretty much anyone you mentioned and also more creative.
- Status