[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Shaw had a better season, Pogba is a better player

what do you mean by better? Do you mean talented? Or do you mean being effective and consistent on the pitch?

 

[United in sin]

I am because it's absolute nonsense.

Can you disprove my assertion? Let's tally em up shall we?

 

[Zen86]

Shaw had a better season, Pogba is a better player

Shaw has probably had a better season for us than Pogba ever has.

 

[Roane]

I am because it's absolute nonsense.

Have you seen the stats for the Europa final?

Pogba was by far the better player statistically. I did post the stats IIRC he was better than all our front men put together. Far far better than McT who got praise

 

[Nou_Camp99]

Can you disprove my assertion? Let's tally em up shall we?

Yeah it's utter crap.

Our two biggest fixtures are Liverpool and City. Paul Pogba has never ever had a good game against Liverpool. Not one. In fact he's been awful in most.

Against City he's been just as bad. The only stand out game was when he scored twice in the 3-2 win.

What games are you referring to?

Bruno is head and shoulders better than the dabber. It's not even close.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

Have you seen the stats for the Europa final?

Pogba was by far the better player statistically. I did post the stats IIRC he was better than all our front men put together. Far far better than McT who got praise

Villarreal stood off our midfield and played a back 9. That's why.

Rashford Bruno and Greenwood got squeezed out. Pogba had the space and did nothing with it. And Mctomminay was far better of the two anyway.

Learn the game.

 

[He'sRaldo]

Bruno is head and shoulders better than the dabber. It's not even close.

Get this sort of shit outta here.

 

[Hugh Jass]

Villarreal stood off our midfield and played a back 9. That's why.

Rashford Bruno and Greenwood got squeezed out. Pogba had the space and did nothing with it. And Mctomminay was far better of the two anyway.

Learn the game.

Agreed.

 

[The Urban Goose]

Have you seen the stats for the Europa final?

Pogba was by far the better player statistically. I did post the stats IIRC he was better than all our front men put together. Far far better than McT who got praise

Jesus H Christ. Watch the fecking game rather than your spreadsheets.

 

[Hugh Jass]

Jesus H Christ. Watch the fecking game rather than your spreadsheets.

This.

 

[Roane]

Villarreal stood off our midfield and played a back 9. That's why.

Rashford Bruno and Greenwood got squeezed out. Pogba had the space and did nothing with it. And Mctomminay was far better of the two anyway.

Learn the game.

Aye learn the game

pogba had more touches than any of the rest of the front 6, and made more passes.

He had 100 touches, 87 passes (87%); mctominay had 92 touches, and 58 passes (63%).

in other words, he did a much better job of getting the ball and moving it on than mctominay, though most people would say that the scot was great, and the frenchman sh!t, just because of a few surging runs from the former.

pogba also made as many successful long passes as the rest of our front 5 combined, and made more interceptions than anyone on the pitch, from either side. he also made one "key pass", whereas bruno made none at all.

he successfully completed 8 of 11 long balls - the rest of the front 5 were 8 from 17 - yet as is often the case all the focus is on the 3, not the 8.

pogba didn't have a great game, but i honestly don't know what people were watching to say that he was awful, or worse than bruno (whose big game record is truly woeful)

 

[Roane]

Jesus H Christ. Watch the fecking game rather than your spreadsheets.

See above.

 

[Godfather]

The hate some feel on him is quite sad. Especially as he did will this season for us post covid

 

[Roane]

The hate some feel on him is quite sad. Especially as he did will this season for us post covid

It's funny how folk use stats to "prove" how good a player who they like is

Yet when they dislike a player they cry "stop using stats, watch the game wah"

 

[Hugh Jass]

Aye learn the game

pogba had more touches than any of the rest of the front 6, and made more passes.

He had 100 touches, 87 passes (87%); mctominay had 92 touches, and 58 passes (63%).

in other words, he did a much better job of getting the ball and moving it on than mctominay, though most people would say that the scot was great, and the frenchman sh!t, just because of a few surging runs from the former.

pogba also made as many successful long passes as the rest of our front 5 combined, and made more interceptions than anyone on the pitch, from either side. he also made one "key pass", whereas bruno made none at all.

he successfully completed 8 of 11 long balls - the rest of the front 5 were 8 from 17 - yet as is often the case all the focus is on the 3, not the 8.

pogba didn't have a great game, but i honestly don't know what people were watching to say that he was awful, or worse than bruno (whose big game record is truly woeful)

"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." Mark twain.

 

[Jeppers7]

"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." Mark twain.

Pathetic

 

[Godfather]

It's funny how folk use stats to "prove" how good a player who they like is

Yet when they dislike a player they cry "stop using stats, watch the game wah"

Don't know what that has to do with what I said. Crticising a player for bad performances is fair. And Pogba had his fair share of bad ones. He was mostly good for us though since he recovered from covid which is not only backed up by stats but was also visible to anyone without an agenda. Which makes the flak he gets in this thread by the same posters over and over again pathetic.

I for one hope he signes the new deal and stays. There aren't many good midfielders out there available and we are light in midfield already.

 

[Roane]

Don't know what that has to do with what I said. Crticising a player for bad performances is fair. And Pogba had his fair share of bad ones. He was mostly good for us though since he recovered from covid which is not only backed up by stats but was also visible to anyone without an agenda. Which makes the flak he gets in this thread by the same posters over and over again pathetic.

I for one hope he signes the new deal and stays. There aren't many good midfielders out there available and we are light in midfield already.

I was agreeing with you about how it's sad he gets the hate he does.

My comment was an add on to the hate bit, as in no defence is a good enough for PP but good enough for a player that is liked.

I thought Pogba had a poor game in the final overall, but he was far from the worst player on the pitch.

 

[hubbuh]

Have you seen the stats for the Europa final?

Pogba was by far the better player statistically. I did post the stats IIRC he was better than all our front men put together. Far far better than McT who got praise

Jesus fecking Christ on what planet did Pogba have a better game than McTominay? Honestly, the agendas on here make even the most fundamental conversations ridiculous right from the off.

 

[Roane]

Jesus fecking Christ on what planet did Pogba have a better game than McTominay? Honestly, the agendas on here make even the most fundamental conversations ridiculous right from the off.

Yep. The agenda against Pogba is ridiculous.

Of course if you want to deny the stats...

 

[United in sin]

Yeah it's utter crap.

Our two biggest fixtures are Liverpool and City. Paul Pogba has never ever had a good game against Liverpool. Not one. In fact he's been awful in most.

Against City he's been just as bad. The only stand out game was when he scored twice in the 3-2 win.

What games are you referring to?

Bruno is head and shoulders better than the dabber. It's not even close.

So according to you only those two fixtures matter? Why the cherry picking?

Bruno has 7 goals against the top four in all competitions in his time here according to Whoscored. 5 of those were penalties. Pogba has 6, only one was a penalty. Bruno only has one goal from open play against City and Liverpool collectively while Pogba has two in a MOTM winning performance and classic coming from 2-0 down. Bruno has not topped that performance on the big stage against a rival

 

[Godfather]

I was agreeing with you about how it's sad he gets the hate he does.

My comment was an add on to the hate bit, as in no defence is a good enough for PP but good enough for a player that is liked.

I thought Pogba had a poor game in the final overall, but he was far from the worst player on the pitch.

I agree mate sorry I completely misunderstood your post

 

[Hulksmash]

Why should he sign the contract ? He can choose the next club and get at least 20 Million signing on Fee + higher wages.

It's looking likely he will leave for free next Summer unless we offer him crazy Money

 

[Gurtej]

Would anyone out there pay us 50-60m for him? Just sell this clown and get rid of the circus around him and his agent .....

add another 20-30 and but Grelish...

I really don’t care how great a player he is but he doesn’t have the impact of one .....
When I think about one player as the difference to the teams..... I think about what Suarez did for liverpoool...foo all Pogbas circus, that’s the sort of performances I want week in week out ....

 

[Freak]

Have you seen the stats for the Europa final?

Pogba was by far the better player statistically. I did post the stats IIRC he was better than all our front men put together. Far far better than McT who got praise

I'd love to know what you were smoking when you typed this. I need some of it.

 

[Toshey]

Now is the correct time to sell him. We need a signing with passion and desire to fight for the badge. Pogba is way too distracted and won’t give his all for the team, that’s become evident in the last couple of years.

 

[Roane]

I'd love to know what you were smoking when you typed this. I need some of it.

B&H blue.

I also watched the game and saw the stats after it as I couldn't understand why McT was being seen as being so good.

Lo and behold he wasn't.

Pogba was being slated and yet he had more interceptions than any player on the pitch. Yep of all 20 outfield players. More touches than the front 6, more passes than the front 5 etc etc

 

[Classical Mechanic]

B&H blue.

I also watched the game and saw the stats after it as I couldn't understand why McT was being seen as being so good.

Lo and behold he wasn't.

Pogba was being slated and yet he had more interceptions than any player on the pitch. Yep of all 20 outfield players. More touches than the front 6, more passes than the front 5 etc etc

It's a curious use of stats. Pogba was playing as a DLP against a side that sat deep to defend. Naturally he's going to have more touches than the attackers and you'd expect him to make interceptions when Villareal tried to break. I think we were hoping that his trademark creative passing would break down Villareal and cause some issues but it was almost completely absent with only 1 key pass. He also lost the ball in bad areas a couple of times in the phase of play that led to Villareal's goal.

The remarkable stat from the game was that McTominay completed 6 dribbles from midfield against a low block side! He was our only player that was really causing Villareal defensive issues on a consistent basis.

Pogba had an ineffectual game whilst McT was our most effective player.

 

[Roane]

It's a curious use of stats. Pogba was playing as a DLP against a side that sat deep to defend. Naturally he's going to have more touches than the attackers and you'd expect him to make interceptions when Villareal tried to break. I think we were hoping that his trademark creative passing would break down Villareal and cause some issues but it was almost completely absent with only 1 key pass. He also lost the ball in bad areas a couple of times in the phase of play that led to Villareal's goal.

The remarkable stat from the game was that McTominay completed 6 dribbles from midfield against a low block side! He was our only player that was really causing Villareal defensive issues on a consistent basis.

Pogba had an ineffectual game whilst McT was our most effective player.

Less interceptions
Less aerial duals
Less tackles won
More duals lost.


But ok

 

[Hugh Jass]

It's a curious use of stats. Pogba was playing as a DLP against a side that sat deep to defend. Naturally he's going to have more touches than the attackers and you'd expect him to make interceptions when Villareal tried to break. I think we were hoping that his trademark creative passing would break down Villareal and cause some issues but it was almost completely absent with only 1 key pass. He also lost the ball in bad areas a couple of times in the phase of play that led to Villareal's goal.

The remarkable stat from the game was that McTominay completed 6 dribbles from midfield against a low block side! He was our only player that was really causing Villareal defensive issues on a consistent basis.

Pogba had an ineffectual game whilst McT was our most effective player.

This 100%.

Of course Pogba will statistically have the most passes and touches as he is supposed to be our playmaker. But he did not really do much with the ball. Scott looked better on the night.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Less interceptions
Less aerial duals
Less tackles won
More duals lost.


But ok

You're quoting stats without any context which renders them fairly useless. You have to be a pretty deluded Pogba obsessive to claim that he was better than McT in that game. Does that mean that McT is the level of player that Pogba is? No it doesn't.

Even so: whoscored has McT with 5 tackles,1 interception, 2 clearances, 1 block and 2 aerial duals won and Pogba with 0 tackles and 5 interceptions, 1 clearance 0 blocks and 4 aerial dual won so looking at basic defensive stats their contribution was roughly equal defensively.

 

[Roane]

You're quoting stats without any context which renders them fairly useless. You have to be a pretty deluded Pogba obsessive to claim that he was better than McT in that game. Does that mean that McT is the level of player that Pogba is? No it doesn't.

Even so: whoscored has McT with 5 tackles,1 interception, 2 clearances, 1 block and 2 aerial duals won and Pogba with 0 tackles and 5 interceptions, 1 clearance 0 blocks and 4 aerial dual won so looking at basic defensive stats their contribution was roughly equal defensively.

Deluded Pogba obsessive...have said and
believe pogba was poor in that game. In fact the whole team display was shit, bar maybe cavani IMO.

The problem is when one player is picked out as being rubbish and the reason for failure over others who were much poorer.

And I agree with you McT isn't on the level of Pogba. He shouldn't really be a starting 11 player for UTD

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Deluded Pogba obsessive...have said and
believe pogba was poor in that game. In fact the whole team display was shit, bar maybe cavani IMO.

The problem is when one player is picked out as being rubbish and the reason for failure over others who were much poorer.

And I agree with you McT isn't on the level of Pogba. He shouldn't really be a starting 11 player for UTD

Fair enough on point one but McT had a fantastic second half and was our best player. He isn’t an XI player for me either but credit where it’s due for his overall game against Villarreal.

 

[Roane]

Fair enough on point one but McT had a fantastic second half and was our best player. He isn’t an XI player for me either but credit where it’s due for his overall game against Villarreal.

I have a lot of love for Scotty, although you may not believe that with the way things have been said on here. I think he is an able understudy if we can get someone in who can hit the ground running. In fact I always praised SAF for having "utility" (if that isn't too much disrespect as a term) players who were capable fill ins for resting players or when players were injured. Having grown up and knowing the ethos of the club helps too.

I get it that certain players we can expect more from, based on ability and even price of purchase. Pogba was poor, as were likes of Bruno and Rashy and that is a concern. But singling out just Pogba (and no I'm not suggesting you did this) is not really helpful.

Also stats are thrown around in defending players and tbh my main use of stats here, something I don't normally do, was based on that. Had McT been the one being slated I probably would have done the same.

 

[Rozay]

Some of our fans are just sad and pathetic. I, like many, don’t rate Dan James and would have him out of the door. But I’m on my sofa now fully with a ‘come on James’ attitude, and will be right behind him.

Find it very hard to imagine the likes of Nou Camp, Pogue or Dante cheering on Pogba for France. Can only imagine him missing a chance and them being first in there to laugh about it. Then straight off on to the net to try and argue with any positive thing ever written about one of their players.

 

[Banana Republic]

All this arguing about whether or not Pogba performed in the Europa final, or about what he's contributed over the last 5 seasons (the bulk of his senior career), is largely irrelevant to the current position with regard to this player and his future with Utd.

Deal with facts and likely outcomes.

Pogba is 28 yrs old and two thirds through next season, he'll be 29.
If he stays one more season, this time next year he'll be 29 yrs old and will reach 30 during the following season.
Still young enough, but realistically, if he can stay fit enough, Pogba is only going to be performing at the highest level of the game for another 4 or 5 years from now.

If he leaves Utd, this summer or next, any new contract will almost certainly be his last big one.
The last chance for his agent Raiola to make big bucks out of him, with agents commissions and signing on fees etc.
The last chance for Pogba to get a big signing on fee and secure what I'm sure he and his agent will want in stupidly high wages and add-ons.

If he decides to stay (assuming Utd want him to) will he be prepared to accept the same terms or even less; or will he demand a large pay increase?
Will Raiola want that outcome and will he advise his client to settle for that, rather than take a possibly, very lucrative move?

Does he want to stay anyway, or is the lure of playing for a big European club too strong, especially when time will shortly start running out on his career?

Does any club want him, or is any club prepared to meet the high wage demands and other fees he and his agent will expect?
Will anyone pay a transfer fee, when they can get him for free next year?
Would that be a club he'd want to move to anyway?

If Utd are offering the same money as he's currently getting, or even prepared to offer much more, with crazy stupid wages, what do they expect to get back, in terms of contribution to the club's progression and success?
Is it reasonable to expect we'd get any more out of Pogba on the pitch, other than what we've seen over the last 5 seasons, .....that's the bulk of his senior playing career and his proven track record of inconsistency and frustration.

If he doesn't sign a new contract this summer, what do Utd do next?
The chance of getting a transfer fee...any transfer fee...will rapidly disappear, with the real risk Pogba will walk away next year, for free.
Would trying to induce him to stay with a massive contract, be a huge gamble that is more likely to gain us nothing extra in the long run?

Where we are now, Pogba's individual talents are secondary to these questions.
Our players are not meant to be some sort of shiny collectable.
It doesn't matter how glitzy or popular they are; sometimes the club has to be prepared to replace them.


.

 

[Volumiza]

Pogba is 28 yrs old and two thirds through next season, he'll be 29.
If he stays one more season, this time next year he'll be 29 yrs old and will reach 30 during the following season.

I think there’s a pattern emerging, let me guess, after that, if he stays one more season he’d be 31?

 

[ayushreddevil9]

I think there’s a pattern emerging, let me guess, after that, if he stays one more season he’d be 31?

Yeah and 32 if he stays for another year after that me thinks

 

[Banana Republic]

I think there’s a pattern emerging, let me guess, after that, if he stays one more season he’d be 31?

The point being, that if he and Raiola want a move, with a big money contract, time isn't on his side after next summer.
Do you not think his age and where his career will be going, will be on Pogba's mind (and Raiola's) ?
Potential clubs may not be in the best position this year, unless a swap deal is involved, but next year Pogba will be a free agent, unless he re-signs with Utd.

 

[Volumiza]

The point being, that if he and Raiola want a move, with a big money contract, time isn't on his side after next summer.
Do you not think his age and where his career will be going, will be on Pogba's mind (and Raiola's) ?
Potential clubs may not be in the best position this year, unless a swap deal is involved, but next year Pogba will be a free agent, unless he re-signs with Utd.

I got your point mate, I was just messing.