[Rozay]

Again, I don't agree. That doesn't match my expectations of him. I won't consider him a failure if he doesn't get 10+ goals and 20+ assists. Some might, but not me and I don't think the majority will. I didn't see much criticism in that direction last year.

He does a lot more defensive work in our third of the pitch that KdB and Coutinho don't drop so deep for (as was highlighted today) and I'm happy for him to be in a position in CM rather than as a #10. He's also a powerful runner arriving late in the box during an attack and I think being deeper suits him more.

I just want him to raise the floor a bit. He needs some maturity to not try silly things and put the team in danger when it's not his day or when it's unnecessary. When Pogba was bad last season, he's really bad. That's what he needs to improve on, because when he's on form he's great and we have seen and know that.

I’m referring to the press’ expectations of him.

As for us, I’m not sure we really know what we expect of him. This is a result of his talent. If he had a game like tonight, it is likely we will say ‘this is the Pogba we want to see’. It is also just as likely the same things were said after his performance at the Etihad. That’s part of the problem - the expectation of him to do everything. Hopefully with Fred, we have a clear plan and role for him.

Even his manager doesn’t seem to know what he wants from him specifically. He just knows he’s very talented so wants him to play ‘good’. He started off playing him in a two, then a three, then a two. There’s more suggestion he was signed because he was a top player and he plays in midfield, somewhere.

 

[edgar allan]

I'm referring to all the bollocks threads that claimed we were ruining him because we asked him to be a midfielder. We even had the same people saying Deschamps was ruining him

Okay point taken

 

[edgar allan]

Some people seem to think that criticizing a player means you think he is shit, and not that you rate his talent so highly that mediocre performances are a disappointment. See also Nevilles' criticism of him, understands his level of talent, knows how good he can be, not going make excuses for him, doesn't mean he doesn't rate him, complete opposite really.

I agree. The question is an obvious one as to why either the player and/or the manager can't replicate the level of performance for us.

 

[edgar allan]

It's completely the other way around.

It's a perfect example of how all Pogba debate dictates he can't win. If he played like today in a defeat/draw to City there would be accusations of cowardice and hiding. It wouldn't be fair, but still.

That's not true, his effort in all parts of the pitch today was excellent. We haven't seen many performances like that.

 

[edgar allan]

And no wonder, the man dropped him for McTominay and Fellaini.

True, and he was playing so badly that he deserved to be.

 

[sport2793]

Good to see that enough posters in here realize that the "improved" Pogba at the WC is only different because he is playing a different role for France than for United. Not been asked to be the main creative force for France and so he's been in his box defending a lot more. Can't afford to do that at United.

 

[Vilev]

Is it me, or does Pogba actually looks like he can play well positionally for France. And his work for defence, not turning off all the time, tracking players. Frankly even in his good games for United i have never seen such a disciplined and dedicated performance. He actually looked more like a Kante in this Belgium game. No unnecessary dribbling, no silly losses of the ball. When he did lose it, no arguing with ref or other silly stuff, he got up and run back. Run, not walked.
I am not sure what to make out of it really. That was not a stellar performance, but a very mature one. Jose must take tips from Didier about Pogba's guidance or something. Cause it definitely seems like Deschamps learned how to explain to Pogba that he needs to be professional on the pitch, not just flashy.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

@Pogue Mahone He really can do it all can't he ? We should expect anything from a pro performance like that from him most games

Exactly. So disciplined. He’s actually played this well plenty of times for United. But not frequently enough. Although it obviously helps having Kante and Matuidi alongside him. They cover ridiculous amounts of ground, so he can get away with an occasional stroll.

 

[Vilev]

Good to see that enough posters in here realize that the "improved" Pogba at the WC is only different because he is playing a different role for France than for United. Not been asked to be the main creative force for France and so he's been in his box defending a lot more. Can't afford to do that at United.

Actually around half of his games this season he played deep in midfield, without being asked to be the main creative force. And he did poorly.
It's not so much the tactics as it is attitude. Tactics do not make you track player, your determination does.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Good to see that enough posters in here realize that the "improved" Pogba at the WC is only different because he is playing a different role for France than for United. Not been asked to be the main creative force for France and so he's been in his box defending a lot more. Can't afford to do that at United.

Yes he can.

 

[Revaulx]

Maybe it’s just that he’s at his best (and his happiest) when he’s given plenty of direction as to how and where he’s supposed to play. Jose isn’t a terribly directive coach, these days at least. His main preoccupation seems to be stopping players from making cockups.

With any luck the revamped coaching team will be able to give him more guidance.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

Showing everyone on the world stage what he is capable of. Another tremendous performance from Pogba.

Has to be up there with player of the tournament.

 

[ChaddyP]

I think Paul plays better when he knows there's world class players around him.

yes world class players like olivier giroud matuidi pavard and co

 

[breakout67]

Maybe it’s just that he’s at his best (and his happiest) when he’s given plenty of direction as to how and where he’s supposed to play. Jose isn’t a terribly directive coach, these days at least. His main preoccupation seems to be stopping players from making cockups.

With any luck the revamped coaching team will be able to give him more guidance.

Pogba isn't a leader by all accounts, he is a player to lean on for support due to his bubbly personality. When Pogba is given lots of responsibility he tends to overplay and take too many risks.

It also helps that he is playing with Kante who has the best engine in the game. Fred also has a very good engine so hopefully it works out.

 

[Infra-red]

Mourinho singled him out and praised his "very, very mature" performance on RT this evening.

In other Mourinho news, Varane is "the best defender in the world."

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Showing everyone on the world stage what he is capable of. Another tremendous performance from Pogba.

Has to be up there with player of the tournament.

Player of the tournament?! I’m not sure he’s even in the the top three for France!

Mbappe, Varane and Matuidi were all better tonight. Kante’s probably been marginally better over the course of tournament. Griezmann is in with a shout too.

I’ve been pleased as anyone with Pogba’s WC performances. Very mature, disciplined and consistent. Great to see. However people are getting very carried away IMO. Which is understandable, I guess. It is a relief to see him hopefully carry this sort of form into next season. So I can understand the desire to see a little bit more in his performances than he’s actually producing on the pitch.

 

[criticalanalysis]

He's been more consistent but in reality I don't think there's that much of a difference in his usual Utd performances.

The difference, however, is that this France team is winning games and has much better personnel all around the pitch. When he does not produce the goods so to speak more regularly as is required at Utd in a game, on a national level his French team mates are there to offer more options.

Still think there's more to his ability Utd and France can exploit. He's fantastic at beating the press, his man, driving the lines and playing passes into space.

However, maybe if he models his game on someone like Modric that would be great too.

 

[Vilev]

He's been more consistent but in reality I don't think there's that much of a difference in his usual Utd performances.

Just look at how he tracked players back, including Fellaini. There were quite a lot of other differences, but don't mind them, just look at that. United's Pogba would just switch off and don't even consider tracking these runs.

I was also very no-nonsense performance in attack, with a ball from him.

 

[Jeppers7]

Player of the tournament?! I’m not sure he’s even in the the top three for France!

Mbappe, Varane and Matuidi were all better tonight. Kante’s probably been marginally better over the course of tournament. Griezmann is in with a shout too.

I’ve been pleased as anyone with Pogba’s WC performances. Very mature, disciplined and consistent. Great to see. However people are getting very carried away IMO. Which is understandable, I guess. It is a relief to see him hopefully carry this sort of form into next season. So I can understand the desire to see a little bit more in his performances than he’s actually producing on the pitch.

Based on the rest of this post....this clearly is not true

 

[ti vu]

Good to see that enough posters in here realize that the "improved" Pogba at the WC is only different because he is playing a different role for France than for United. Not been asked to be the main creative force for France and so he's been in his box defending a lot more. Can't afford to do that at United.

Disagree. France needs Pogba creativity. The only game he didn't play they didn't score. The first game when they're underwhelming and he was their sole hope for creative spark which he delivered.

What makes France campaign look brighter is they ain't expected for sexy football. You had English coverage bashing Pogba for the first game, hate their last group game dicking around for a draw, but France supporter ain't breaking their house for those performance.

About the team building, France is more balanced. They can play out from the back under pressure on their own. They have plenty of options of ball carriers. The forwards have a fair share of sharpness/end proud to between them. Mbappe is worth a mention. He's doing plenty of roles for one starter spot in the team. He is the dribbler to shuffle opposition team, yet have to help ball carrying, width providing, running behind and support the target man if the ball is knocked back. It's one hell of package of responsibility. We don't have a player fulfil all this role. This allow a hydrid third midfielder/wide player role like Matuidi to help with defense if needed thus not leaving Pogba over the head defensive duty.

 

[bosnian_red]

Showing everyone on the world stage what he is capable of. Another tremendous performance from Pogba.

Has to be up there with player of the tournament.

I'd say theres a few French candidates before Pogba. A winning goal in the world cup final and a MotM performance could give him it of course, but as of now I'd say Mbappe, Kante and Griezmann and then Varane have been France's best. And then you have Modric who has been the top shout for player of the tournament so far, Kane with 6 goals for England, and Hazard who was excellent throughout.

Potential for team of the tournament with a good final, but for midfielders alone Kante and Modric are shoe ins, and then you have Coutinho, Rakitic, and Pogba fighting for the last spot I'd say.

 

[bosnian_red]

yes world class players like olivier giroud matuidi pavard and co

Or you know, Kante, griezmann, Mbappe, varane, Umtiti..

 

[Sereques]

Where are the experts and Einsteins that said Pogba can't play in a midfield two? waiting on you guys analysis.

 

[ChaddyP]

Or you know, Kante, griezmann, Mbappe, varane, Umtiti..

Yes because he has to play with shit players like Matic, Sanchez, martial, Lukaku Mata and de gea

Give it a rest we have great players and pogba plays with great players just as with France

 

[Jeppers7]

He's had a phenomenal tournament, playing in a way many doubted he could, playing in a way that if United didn't win, would be criticised. He's capable of everything but it's unrealistic to expect everything from any player.

Jose needs to figure out what he wants, what's best for Pogba and figure out how best to use an absolute world class player

 

[haram]

The way France set up to play the game is not that different to how we set up under Mourinho.

 

[bosnian_red]

Yes because he has to play with shit players like Matic, Sanchez, martial, Lukaku Mata and de gea

Give it a rest we have great players and pogba plays with great players just as with France

Oh I agree we have good players, but I definitely think it's more beneficial for Pogba having kante next to him and others who are bigger stars then him and take more of the limelight. Pogba I always felt was better as a supporting role and doesn't really do well given the main role. So in that sense, not quite the same IMO.

 

[maniwin]

He played like the way Jose Mourinho demand him to do but didn't for some reason last season. Some poster here said he should only play in midfield 3 with little to no defensive job aka free pogba. Which is bs to me and to mou, a midfielder must defend when opposition team attack , no excuse he can't do it. Today he showed the world that he can.

 

[ChaddyP]

Oh I agree we have good players, but I definitely think it's more beneficial for Pogba having kante next to him and others who are bigger stars then him and take more of the limelight. Pogba I always felt was better as a supporting role and doesn't really do well given the main role. So in that sense, not quite the same IMO.

I guess I don't see him having a main role for us either. He's our best midfielder and is important for us just like he's important for France. Take pogba out of this French team and like us they are screwed. Kante is a fine player but Matic is a beast as well. I don't know who on the French team you would say is a bigger star than pogba than maybe greizmann. Even then we have the same in Sanchez and last year Zlatan.


Only thing is pogba is back to good form and playing well. His decision making is better and he is focused. Nothing to do with Jose or his "super star " French team mates.

Also France are winning. Had Umtiti not scored the corner I wonder if he would have got as Much praise as today

 

[Isotope]

He's not a controlling midfielder like Modric. But I think his best performance with France was he was allowed to go further forward, like at the end of the game against Belgium, or the 2nd half against Argentina. The way he carried the ball, and his final third passing is a joy to hold.

Not so much in midfield two, as he's done nothing special there.

 

[Rash Decision]

I'm getting the predictable texts saying how he was the worst on the field again and didn't show up and is riding his team mates coattails etc; but on Planet Earth he was immense today. What a performance in a World Cup semi-final against a great side.

Whatever "problems" he was with Jose hope they are mended because he's a great player and we need this level of player.

Out of curiosity, who are these texts coming from? Rival fans? Fans with usually reasonable opinions? Or just pure ABUs?

Can't comment on his performance as I didn't watch, but it's quite striking if the normally critical Redcafe is giving him high praise and yet he's being slated elsewhere.

 

[meamth]

Just look at how he tracked players back, including Fellaini. There were quite a lot of other differences, but don't mind them, just look at that. United's Pogba would just switch off and don't even consider tracking these runs.

I was also very no-nonsense performance in attack, with a ball from him.

I saw the same exact pogba, but with Varane, Kante and Matuidi covering his mistakes.

 

[ZenMaster Coltrane]

I saw the same exact pogba, but with Varane, Kante and Matuidi covering his mistakes.

How do you come with this stuff? Where are these glaring boatload of mistakes vs Belgium that you speak of? He's surrounded by better players just like others are. Illustrate, specify...don't just regurgitate trollish narratives.

 

[MuranoLover]

Nothing special

 

[meamth]

How do you come with this stuff? Where are these glaring boatload of mistakes vs Belgium that you speak of? He's surrounded by better players just like others are. Illustrate, specify...don't just regurgitate trollish narratives.

In the first half, he sometimes played a difficult pass to Varane. One point I don't remember what minutes, he dwells on the ball, trying to turn and ended up making a dangerous pass to the back line. Varane is composed enough to clear the ball, but that play saw the clearance created another attack for Belgium.

There are some dribbles at the end of first half where Pogba was caught but protected by Kante. I don't care to recall what minutes, but that was typical Pogba. I don't slate him, Pogba was immense in the game last night, he is the main creative output in that France side. He driven his side with that trademark dribbles from deep, switching passes to either flanks and many key passes from the deep.

Matuidi and Kante covered a lot of ground while Varane is that missing CB in the united side. He carried the ball bravely from the back and Pogba is sometimes found in the final third. Pogba tracking back is just like Pogba tracking back while he is at united, nothing new there. Plus if you count the magnitude and spirit of the semi finals, we could possibly see a bit of extra "do or die" effort from Pogba.

Trollish or not, I'm just disagreeing with you there.

 

[ZenMaster Coltrane]

In the first half, he sometimes played a difficult pass to Varane. One point I don't remember what minutes, he dwells on the ball, trying to turn and ended up making a dangerous pass to the back line. Varane is composed enough to clear the ball, but that play saw the clearance created another attack for Belgium.

There are some dribbles at the end of first half where Pogba was caught but protected by Kante. I don't care to recall what minutes, but that was typical Pogba. I don't slate him, Pogba was immense in the game last night, he is the main creative output in that France side. He driven his side with that trademark dribbles from deep, switching passes to either flanks and many key passes from the deep.

Matuidi and Kante covered a lot of ground while Varane is that missing CB in the united side. He carried the ball bravely from the back and Pogba is sometimes found in the final third. Pogba tracking back is just like Pogba tracking back while he is at united, nothing new there. Plus if you count the magnitude and spirit of the semi finals, we could possibly see a bit of extra "do or die" effort from Pogba.

Trollish or not, I'm just disagreeing with you there.

No offense intended but you're interpreting things in a strangely pedantic manner in a game where he was a colossus. Playing out from the back is not a mistake when that's what you drill in practice (there's always an element of risk). Most of what you mentioned can be clearly explained by his role/position. Of course, he goes forward more than Kante (so Kante's role is always one of protection, the fact that he's the best in the world at that position is obviously hugely relevant). Pavard must also be covering for Mbappe then. And Varane and Umtiti are covering for the other 8. This is football.

His pass accuracy was in the 90s. He had more tackles than Kante. Moreover, France defended deep for most of that game so there weren't these long periods where Pogba was freelancing. In fact, there were at least 3 or 4 Pogba clearances/box outs of Feillani in the box.

The difference with France is the midfield has speed. There's speed everywhere except up top with Giroud. The passing is faster, the decision making is faster. And Deschamps's man management, despite his conservative tactics, isn't trash.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Based on the rest of this post....this clearly is not true

Um... lol?

What’s so funny?

 

[Adam-Utd]

Another great midfield performance from Paul!

He's showing the haircut brigade up massively here. Where's Souness? Where's Keown? Where's Crooks?. All quiet.

I think this WC will have done him wonders for his confidence.

 

[meamth]

No offense intended but you're interpreting things in a strangely pedantic manner in a game where he was a colossus. Playing out from the back is not a mistake when that's what you drill in practice (there's always an element of risk). Most of what you mentioned can be clearly explained by his role/position. Of course, he goes forward more than Kante (so Kante's role is always one of protection, the fact that he's the best in the world at that position is obviously hugely relevant). Pavard must also be covering for Mbappe then. And Varane and Umtiti are covering for the other 8. This is football.

His pass accuracy was in the 90s. He had more tackles than Kante. Moreover, France defended deep for most of that game so there weren't these long periods where Pogba was freelancing. In fact, there were at least 3 or 4 Pogba clearances/box outs of Feillani in the box.

The difference with France is the midfield has speed. There's speed everywhere except up top with Giroud. The passing is faster, the decision making is faster. And Deschamps's man management, despite his conservative tactics, isn't trash.

Yeah I'm very pedantic about the mistakes he made but it was okay for him to do that and the performance was great, really. I was really happy by his performance last night, just clarifying that this is always the Pogba we've seen in United. Some of the posters here are saying he should be playing like this in United side. But the fact is he is much more free in this France side with Kante, Matuidi and Varane in that team.

I was nitpicking but that wasn't a bad criticism to discount his efforts in that game, it was never my intention. He was great, he kept me entertained for the whole match.

 

[#07]