[roonster09]

No one expects him to do that now either (except idiots like Souness).

I'm paraphrasing what Juventus fans said about him, he started off as a player known for being hard working and involved in the middle. He developed into a player that linked with the forwards really well and didn't influence the midfield battle to the level he did at the start.

I see him in the same mould as Mesut Ozil, he's inconsistent but that comes with his skillset and profile as a player. It's difficult to be consistent when you are the one taking risks and reliant on those behind you.

Also what @Stacks said

Then Caf have lot of Sourness then as there are so many who expect him to do everything.

 

[Pete Dahh Sneak]

Or you were watching only Kante.

Both considered world class players. Which performance has spawned a worldwide debate about his effectiveness in the game?

 

[cyberman]

Not sure who said this, I watched his enough games to make a good judgement. He was considered as among the best players in the league, whenever I watched him (even in big games) he was very good.

Also not sure why we have to take everything Juve fans as gospel considering how extreme ManUtd fans opinion on players are (like Lukaku and Pogba).

Pogba was pushed up as a 10 before we signed him though. We signed a 10 to play him in midfield in a position he lost the trust of Juve in.

 

[Idxomer]

Every supposed game changer in the french team today was abysmal, couple of them are even more expensive than Pogba.

It's a testament to his talent that he was able to have such an impact on the result in a team full of underperformers and with a manager who doesn't have a clue.

 

[roonster09]

Pogba was pushed up as a 10 before we signed him though. We signed a 10 to play him in midfield in a position he lost the trust of Juve in.

Wow, that's stretching it. He was always advanced midfielder for them and no, they never lost trust in Pogba as a midfielder.

 

[bosnian_red]

Your friend made very bad comparison.

I mean, it's not though. Rooney after 2010 for the most part was inconsistent as feck in his performances within 90 minutes but had his moments of quality that made him worth it (til the last few years). Pogba is inconsistent as feck, makes some amateurish passes and touches at times but then also has some passes, dribbles, touches and shots from range that turn everything on its head. Rooney was productive enough that he was worth it and made him a quality player still. Also he was a forward, and that was his main job at the end of the day. Pogba is not a forward, he's a midfielder. He doesnt score often. He creates a decent amount of chances but hes never among the top players in pure chances created (was productive with assists tbf though). Hes not productive enough as a midfielder like what Yaya toure was, or Gerrard or Lampard, to make a slack overall game worth it. So he needs to fix that.

 

[Adisa]

Not sure what you're asking. Do you mean midfielders that are capable of dictating the tempo of a game? Clearly, there are a great many. Do I really need to name them?

Midfielders great at dictating the tempo of a game and still producing goals and assists. There are not many, I can't even think of any. That's why I said even De Bruyne who is probably the most renowned midfielder for output, doesn't do it.

He doesnt do either, which is the problem. Has to decide what type of player hes going to be, and an inconsistent player that doesnt control games but also doesnt score enough goals isnt enough. What he should be aiming for is a Yaya Toure type thing, but again, consistency isnt there and decision making isnt. Can he ever reach that? I'm not sure.

I agree he needs to find consistency. However, since he's come here, it's become clear he is more of a player for the final ball and chip in with a few goals. He's never going to be a tempo player, it's just not his game (his natural game is too risky). His numbers last year were very good and that's in a low scoring team. Like we all know he needs to improve his consistency and doing the simple things better and as the team improves, so will his output.
People expecting him to do both are asking too much.

 

[edcunited1878]

Both considered world class players. Which performance has spawned a worldwide debate about his effectiveness in the game?

Pogba will always be debated when he's a top two way player box to box. Kante is the defensive player, let's not kid ourselves and he does it extremely well. But Pogba didn't score 5 goals and 5 assists to himself against a mighty opponent that was Australia who should have just rolled over for the Frenchman.

 

[roonster09]

Both considered world class players. Which performance has spawned a worldwide debate about his effectiveness in the game?

Wow, Pogba after playing key role in 2 goals is questioned and Kante who barely creates a chance will be considered as a good game because he won few tackles, that itself says how expectations are so different for 2 players.

 

[Adisa]

I mean, it's not though. Rooney after 2010 for the most part was inconsistent as feck in his performances within 90 minutes but had his moments of quality that made him worth it (til the last few years). Pogba is inconsistent as feck, makes some amateurish passes and touches at times but then also has some passes, dribbles, touches and shots from range that turn everything on its head. Rooney was productive enough that he was worth it and made him a quality player still. Also he was a forward, and that was his main job at the end of the day. Pogba is not a forward, he's a midfielder. He doesnt score often. He creates a decent amount of chances but hes never among the top players in pure chances created (was productive with assists tbf though). Hes not productive enough as a midfielder like what Yaya toure was, or Gerrard or Lampard, to make a slack overall game worth it. So he needs to fix that.

Rooney was always like that though. I do agree that both players' bottom level is very bad.

 

[Hephaestus]

Maybe. But then how do you explain the fact that no commentator or pundit can ever watch a Chelsea game without mentioning how great Kante (just as black as Pogba) is?

The praise for Kante doesn't disprove it at all. The stereotype of black players is that they get by on athletic ability but lack technique and intelligence so someone like Kante gets praise because he works hard and gets by on his strength, stamina and work rate. He's clearly very good from a technical standpoint and his positioning is excellent but the praise almost always comes as a result of work-rate or physical ability.

Someone like Pogba doesn't get by on that, he's above average for midfielders from a physical standpoint but he relies more on his technical ability, his range of passing, his dribbling etc. Hence why the likes of Souness repeatedly complain about the flashiness, say he lacks intelligence while praising his strength or aggression and suggesting he should just stick to that.

 

[roonster09]

I mean, it's not though. Rooney after 2010 for the most part was inconsistent as feck in his performances within 90 minutes but had his moments of quality that made him worth it (til the last few years). Pogba is inconsistent as feck, makes some amateurish passes and touches at times but then also has some passes, dribbles, touches and shots from range that turn everything on its head. Rooney was productive enough that he was worth it and made him a quality player still. Also he was a forward, and that was his main job at the end of the day. Pogba is not a forward, he's a midfielder. He doesnt score often. He creates a decent amount of chances but hes never among the top players in pure chances created (was productive with assists tbf though). Hes not productive enough as a midfielder like what Yaya toure was, or Gerrard or Lampard, to make a slack overall game worth it. So he needs to fix that.

Rooney lost his touch, his touch was heavy and he struggled with pace. Pogba's first touch is among the best in the team and his passing is easily the best in the team. There is no comparison at all.

Btw if you are considering pure chances created then you have to look at the chances created from open play. Players taking set pieces will always top it as every set piece, if their player heads the ball is a chance created.

 

[breakout67]

Then Caf have lot of Sourness then as there are so many who expect him to do everything.

Yeah they do, and it has a lot to do with his price tag and extravagant style of play. I don't understand it.

I think Pogba has shown quite clearly that he has a spot in the team. I was very encouraged by his performances in the FA cup run where he was regularly one of our best players. And I give him the benefit of the doubt in games like Newcastle or West Brom because the title was gone and the whole team struggled with motivation.

I believe Fred is much better suited to play in a deeper position, and Pogba will play in areas where he is more effective as an advanced midfielder.

 

[JPRouve]

Not sure who said this, I watched his enough games to make a good judgement. He was considered as among the best players in the league, whenever I watched him (even in big games) he was very good.

Also not sure why we have to take everything Juve fans as gospel considering how extreme ManUtd fans opinion on players are (like Lukaku and Pogba).

The thing about Pogba is that he is among the best players. I complain a lot about him but he is among the best players, the problem is that at this point I'm resigned to admit that he will and need to be a peripheral player, you can't trust him with the steady and mechanical aspect of a midfield, he is a spark and we need to accept it. In particular Deschamps and Mourinho, the experiment is over Allegri and Conte were right.

 

[roonster09]

Yeah they do, and it has a lot to do with his price tag and extravagant style of play. I don't understand it.

I think Pogba has shown quite clearly that he has a spot in the team. I was very encouraged by his performances in the FA cup run where he was regularly one of our best players. And I give him the benefit of the doubt in games like Newcastle or West Brom because the title was gone and the whole team struggled with motivation.

I believe Fred is much better suited to play in a deeper position, and Pogba will play in areas where he is more effective as an advanced midfielder.

Exactly and it's just stupid thing to do. Mbappe was signed for 150 plus million, wonder PSG fans expect him to do role of fullback plus wingers, same with Dembele.

Adding Fred would be huge for the team. He should bring the balance to the midfield and team.

 

[bosnian_red]

Midfielders great at dictating the tempo of a game and still producing goals and assists. There are not many, I can't even think of any. That's why I said even De Bruyne who is probably the most renowned midfielder for output, doesn't do it.

I agree he needs to find consistency. However, since he's come here, it's become clear he is more of a player for the final ball and chip in with a few goals. He's never going to be a tempo player, it's just not his game. His numbers last year were very good and that's in a low scoring team. Like we all know he needs to improve his consistency and doing the simple things better and as the team improves, so will his output.
People expecting him to do both are asking too much.

Wouldnt say they were very good numbers... assists were good but i dont think he scored after his first 3 games until the City game in April. That's way too long.

Anyway, if hes not going to be a tempo player, then I'd like him to aim for what Yaya toure was. Or if he cant be that much of a goalscorer, then try to do what Eriksen does for Spurs. Pogba was way too far away from the top midfielders in the league for the talent he has.

 

[roonster09]

The thing about Pogba is that he is among the best players. I complain a lot about him but he is among the best players, the problem is that at this point I'm resigned to admit that he will and need to be a peripheral player, you can't trust him with the steady and mechanical aspect of a midfield, he is a spark and we need to accept it. In particular Deschamps and Mourinho, the experiment is over Allegri and Conte were right.

That much is obvious. He should be rated and played for the role that suits him better. He is a flair player, not someone like Kroos or Pirlo who can control the midfield. He is very expressive player and should be played in advance role. Yeah, at Juventus he had defined role, at Manutd lot was expected from him, something no midfielder can achieve, like played 3-4 roles at once.

 

[cyberman]

Wow, that's stretching it. He was always advanced midfielder for them and no, they never lost trust in Pogba as a midfielder.

Bit he was played as a 10. Even had the number on his back

 

[roonster09]

Bit he was played as a 10. Even had the number on his back

Mata has number 8, don't think he plays 8 role for us. Pogba getting #10 is a symbolic, that he is top player for Juventus. Very huge number for Juventus.

Nothing to do with losing trust, if anything he was counted as their one of best player after Pirlo and Vidal left in the last season.

 

[breakout67]

Exactly and it's just stupid thing to do. Mbappe was signed for 150 plus million, wonder PSG fans expect him to do role of fullback plus wingers, same with Dembele.

Adding Fred would be huge for the team. He should bring the balance to the midfield and team.

Fred covered the most distance in the CL of any player, and he is a defensive no.8. Great tackler and moves the ball up the pitch quickly with his dribbling and passing. I believe Pogba was expected to do so much because of his potential and other players were horribly out of form (Mkhi). Once Herrera played in the deeper position, Pogba was great in almost every game.

 

[JPRouve]

That much is obvious. He should be rated and played for the role that suits him better. He is a flair player, not someone like Kroos or Pirlo who can control the midfield. He is very expressive player and should be played in advance role. Yeah, at Juventus he had defined role, at Manutd lot was expected from him, something no midfielder can achieve, like played 3-4 roles at once.

It's not that a lot is asked from him, it's that he isn't able to control a game at all and it seems that he can't learn to do it too, we could say that too much is asked at once if he was actually able to do both in isolation. We are wasting him and frustrating ourselves, he simply isn't Vieira.

 

[roonster09]

Fred covered the most distance in the CL of any player, and he is a defensive no.8. Great tackler and moves the ball up the pitch quickly with his dribbling and passing. I believe Pogba was expected to do so much because of his potential and other players were horribly out of form (Mkhi). Once Herrera played in the deeper position, Pogba was great in almost every game.

Yeah, from the highlights watched, Fred's ability to carry the ball looks impressive, which means out attackers and attack minded players shouldn't need to drop very deep to move the ball. Hopefully he won't take much time to adapt.

Yeah checked his distance covered when we signed him, covers on an average of 11.5 kms per game which is very good.

 

[roonster09]

It's not that a lot is asked from him, it's that he isn't able to control a game at all and it seems that he can't learn to do it too, we could say that too much is asked at once if he was actually able to do both in isolation. We are wasting him and frustrating ourselves, he simply isn't Vieira.

He can't control the games as it's not in his game. He is very high risk taker and flashy, playing him deeper is bad for the team and player. He is creative player and looks like we made good move in transfer market to finally address the issue.

 

[JPRouve]

He can't control the games as it's not in his game. He is very high risk taker and flashy, playing him deeper is bad for the team and player. He is creative player and looks like we made good move in transfer market to finally address the issue.

Agreed, I thought that Mourinho could tweak him but it's easier said than done.

 

[Wayne's World]

How the hell did he get Man of the Match? He was absolutely atrocious at times with his ball control and his passing, some nice stuff as always but nowhere near top level

 

[roonster09]

Agreed, I thought that Mourinho could tweak him but it's easier said than done.

Yeah, think Jose wanted him to be more allround player but it's a failed experiment. It's better to go back to what's already know, that he is not the one to run the midfield, instead he is the one who can provide the spark.

 

[TwoSheds]

Dont want to play the race card, but is everyones scapegoat a black dude when it comes to the English press?

Don't disagree in general. See Sterling for example, what he's done to warrant the stick he gets I really don't understand. But in Pogba's case I think it's more because he's juvenile and says stupid cliché things like "haters" whenever he gets criticism. That and he cost £90m!

 

[bosnian_red]

How is he not doing either when his output (goals plus assists) is very impressive this season?

15 goals in 88 games for us is not very impressive if as a midfielder you're going to be rated as a highly productive player. Its decent, but not much more then that. Hes capable of so much more, which is what can be said for every aspect of his game, because he shows all aspects, just inconsistently. If he wants to be seen as a midfielder who will get goals and assists, then numbers like what toure, Gerrard or Lampard is what he needs to aim for. He needs to be consistent and not go like 6-7 months in the middle of the season without a goal. He is a good player, but hes not going to be a top player until he becomes consistent in whatever it is he is as a player.

 

[NinjaFletch]

It's not that a lot is asked from him, it's that he isn't able to control a game at all and it seems that he can't learn to do it too, we could say that too much is asked at once if he was actually able to do both in isolation. We are wasting him and frustrating ourselves, he simply isn't Vieira.

I do think we're getting into dangerous territory where people, correctly, point out that Pogba can't do everything, but take it so far the other way and don't seem to expect much, or anything, from him at all.

Yes, expectations are ridiculously high for Pogba, but they should be. Simply lowering expectations because he isn't good enough to reach them is just damning him with faint praise.

There's a lot of caveats that need to be applied, but it's a bit depressing having been drooling at Spain's midfielders yesterday to see a performance like today's Pogba one accepted as something like the best we can reasonably expect from people that seem to think he's on, or can be on, the same level as those midfielders playing for Spain last night.

 

[acnumber9]

I do think we're getting into dangerous territory where people, correctly, point out that Pogba can't do everything, but take it so far the other way and don't seem to expect much, or anything, from him at all.

Yes, expectations are ridiculously high for Pogba, but they should be. Simply lowering expectations because he isn't good enough to reach them is just damning him with faint praise.

There's a lot of caveats that need to be applied, but it's a bit depressing having been drooling at Spain's midfielders yesterday to see a performance like today's Pogba one accepted as something like the best we can reasonably expect from people that seem to think he's on, or can be on, the same level as those midfielders playing for Spain last night.

I’m fairness to Pogba it’s easier when the midfielders around you are capable of playing that kind of football too. Kante and Tolisso a little less so. Pogba is always going to be sloppy though I think.

 

[Fridge chutney]

He played well. Why would people choose today of all days to have a go at him? France lose without Pogba today.

 

[edcunited1878]

I mean, it's not though. Rooney after 2010 for the most part was inconsistent as feck in his performances within 90 minutes but had his moments of quality that made him worth it (til the last few years). Pogba is inconsistent as feck, makes some amateurish passes and touches at times but then also has some passes, dribbles, touches and shots from range that turn everything on its head. Rooney was productive enough that he was worth it and made him a quality player still. Also he was a forward, and that was his main job at the end of the day. Pogba is not a forward, he's a midfielder. He doesnt score often. He creates a decent amount of chances but hes never among the top players in pure chances created (was productive with assists tbf though). Hes not productive enough as a midfielder like what Yaya toure was, or Gerrard or Lampard, to make a slack overall game worth it. So he needs to fix that.

Central midfielders like Pogba don't score too many goals, it's not part of their game overall and even Pogba has said this because he's not focused on his goal output. Stop putting him above all other central midfielders. KDB is not a central midfielder. Dele Alli is not a central midfielder.

Yaya Toure had one anomaly of a goal scoring season for City, albeit it was awesome with 20 goals. Fair play. But overall, his club output of goals and assists according to TransferMkt for first tier domestic seasons (i.e. La Liga, Premier League) is 74 goals / 49 assists in 33,626 minutes.

Pogba: 39 goals / 45 assists in 14,759 minutes. You double his minutes and his output is higher than Toure, yet his minutes is still fewer than Toure.

Lampard was a terrific player but the stark differences are there with Pogba in terms of style and expectation. Lampard also played with the likes of Makalele, Essien, Ramires, etc. who allowed Lampard to roam forward and make his trademark runs. He was a top player. Pogba is the much better passer, better vision and ability to drive/dribble through midfield. Lampard wasn't bad at these either, far from it, but not on the same level as Pogba.

And Stevie Me is another fantastic player and his blood and guts, captain style endeared him to many...but he wasn't even the best midfielder in his team...Alonso says hi! His best goal scoring season came when he played in the hole behind Torres. And he's always had that freedom to run about and put himself about because he had Alonso, Mascherano, Benayoun, Kuyt, Henderson, etc.

Overall, Pogba's output is trending much better than an traditional central midfielder like Toure who many considered world class which he was, maybe for not too long but he was. Lampard and Gerrard were never known for their two way player and more for their goals (especially Lampard) or their blood and guts captain drive (Gerrard).

Pogba has improved year over year in a United shirt, yet missed matches due to injury and suspension...and he has much more to give. Let's continue to see how he gets on in a United shirt. He's trending upward, now he just needs to play his game and be better. I think he'll be fine.

 

[roonster09]

15 goals in 88 games for us is not very impressive if as a midfielder you're going to be rated as a highly productive player. Its decent, but not much more then that. Hes capable of so much more, which is what can be said for every aspect of his game, because he shows all aspects, just inconsistently. If he wants to be seen as a midfielder who will get goals and assists, then numbers like what toure, Gerrard or Lampard is what he needs to aim for. He needs to be consistent and not go like 6-7 months in the middle of the season without a goal. He is a good player, but hes not going to be a top player until he becomes consistent in whatever it is he is as a player.

Lampard took penalties and scored so many of them, still his goal scoring record in his career was 3.34 games per goal, Pogba without taking any set pieces his record is goal every 5.4 games.

Also this is when Lampard always played in midfield 3 and very much behind striker, Pogba played most of his career in midfield 2.

Gerrard also averages 3.8 games per goal and he was also their first choice penalty taker, set piece taker and also played in very advanced roles.

Yaya Toure (in PL, French league and La Liga) averaged 5.1 games per goal. In PL it's 4 games per goal and Pogba averages 5.8 games per goal, again Toure took penalties, Pogba rarely takes.

So for any midfielder, their numbers are impressive as they take high number of penalties. For example Lampard averages 4.2 games per goal in Premier league without penalties.

Gerrard averages 5.2 games per goal without penalties

Yaya averages 4.5 games per goal.


Not a very big difference isn't it.

 

[NinjaFletch]

I’m fairness to Pogba it’s easier when the midfielders around you are capable of playing that kind of football too. Kante and Tolisso a little less so. Pogba is always going to be sloppy though I think.

Oh absolutely, but my worry is that it's often argued that Pogba needs a midfield like that next to him to bring the best out of him. If that's the case then Pogba needs to take the initiative and can't be peripheral producing the odd moment of quality here and there. Put it this way, if Tolisso and Kante were a problem today, then I'm not sure why people are so keen to see a Fred/Matic midfield next to him next season.

 

[Canagel]

How the hell did he get Man of the Match? He was absolutely atrocious at times with his ball control and his passing, some nice stuff as always but nowhere near top level

Because he created and scored the winning goal in a world cup match.

 

[acnumber9]

Oh absolutely, but my worry is that it's often argued that Pogba needs a midfield like that next to him to bring the best out of him. If that's the case then Pogba needs to take the initiative and can't be peripheral producing the odd moment of quality here and there. Put it this way, if Tolisso and Kante were a problem today, then I'm not sure why people are so keen to see a Fred/Matic midfield next to him next season.

It depends what you want from him. If it’s to be part of a dominant midfield stroking the ball around then Matic and Fred may not be what is needed. If it’s to free him to get into the box more and be on the ball less then maybe it will. He’s getting far too much stick though. In a game where France struggled to create anything of note it was him that created the moments that led to their two goals. If you want him to be an attacking player then I’d say he did that job pretty well today but nothing exceptional.

 

[bosnian_red]

Lampard took penalties and scored so many of them, still his goal scoring record in his career was 3.34 games per goal, Pogba without taking any set pieces his record is goal every 5.4 games.

Also this is when Lampard always played in midfield 3 and very much behind striker, Pogba played most of his career in midfield 2.

Gerrard also averages 3.8 games per goal and he was also their first choice penalty taker, set piece taker and also played in very advanced roles.

Yaya Toure (in PL, French league and La Liga) averaged 5.1 games per goal. In PL it's 4 games per goal and Pogba averages 5.8 games per goal, again Toure took penalties, Pogba rarely takes.

So for any midfielder, their numbers are impressive as they take high number of penalties. For example Lampard averages 4.2 games per goal in Premier league without penalties.

Gerrard averages 5.2 games per goal without penalties

Yaya averages 4.5 games per goal.


Not a very big difference isn't it.

Lampard went 10 season in a row of over 13 goals. 5 in a row over 20 goals. Gerrard at his peak scored over 20 goals. Toure at his peak scored over 20 goals. That's without taking into account that at their best, they were everywhere having an impact on the pitch, way more consistency, and better all round players. I'm not saying he has to get to their level, but they are the level of the top midfielders and Pogba isnt close to that.

Also I never like discounting penalty goals/free kick goals. Its not like anyone would get those numbers. They're quality at penalties so they take them.

Anyway. Pogbas game isnt all about goals, and it's a good thing as he isnt a very good goalscorer. 9 in 51 and 6 in 37 are nothing special totals, if he wants to be a goalscoring mid or people want to judge him on productivity. But his game is a lot more than that, the issue is he needs to be way more consistent. These days hes a nervous wreck until he scores or has a few plays to calm him down. So it's very up or down in his performances. Hes capable of controlling games, hes capable of being an all round midfielder, hes capable of scoring more and creating more with much better decision making. Not sure if he'll ever make it there, or fully commit to one type of midfielder, but I think he needs to, otherwise he'll forever be inconsistent.

 

[bosnian_red]

Because he created and scored the winning goal in a world cup match.

I'd be surprised if that actually goes down as his goal considering he just tried to nudge the ball past the defender, never actually taking a shot. Was clearly an own goal (not that it matters). Still probably motm because he had the decisive moments in a game without anyone having a stand out performance basically.

 

[roonster09]

Lampard went 10 season in a row of over 13 goals. 5 in a row over 20 goals. Gerrard at his peak scored over 20 goals. Toure at his peak scored over 20 goals. That's without taking into account that at their best, they were everywhere having an impact on the pitch, way more consistency, and better all round players. I'm not saying he has to get to their level, but they are the level of the top midfielders and Pogba isnt close to that.

Also I never like discounting penalty goals/free kick goals. Its not like anyone would get those numbers. They're quality at penalties so they take them.

Anyway. Pogbas game isnt all about goals, and it's a good thing as he isnt a very good goalscorer. 9 in 51 and 6 in 37 are nothing special totals, if he wants to be a goalscoring mid or people want to judge him on productivity. But his game is a lot more than that, the issue is he needs to be way more consistent. These days hes a nervous wreck until he scores or has a few plays to calm him down. So it's very up or down in his performances. Hes capable of controlling games, hes capable of being an all round midfielder, hes capable of scoring more and creating more with much better decision making. Not sure if he'll ever make it there, or fully commit to one type of midfielder, but I think he needs to, otherwise he'll forever be inconsistent.

Man you said he should be matching their numbers, I said why there is such a difference. Check how many goals they scored from penalties.

I didnt say discount their penalty goals, but you have to consider the context, when you are talking about goal scoring midfielders, you should see who is taking penalties. They don't have to make any runs, it's a free shot with very high chance of scoring.

I disagree with the point about controlling midfield, he can't. He is a flair player who can provide moment of magic, he is attacking player who creates chances.

I have given you how chances created stats are skewed, they favor players who takes set pieces. Any set piece which is headed by attacking player is a chance created. Ignoring all these, and saying he doesn't create more chances or don't score even more goals is bit silly. If you check his goals and assists in league, it's very good, especially when you consider how many games he missed and how many mins he played and also how many mins he played in midfield 2.

 

[Greck]

I'd be surprised if that actually goes down as his goal considering he just tried to nudge the ball past the defender, never actually taking a shot. Was clearly an own goal (not that it matters). Still probably motm because he had the decisive moments in a game without anyone having a stand out performance basically.

Yes. He did create the opportunity with that run so you could argue it's a case of making his own good luck. The motm was more a best of a bad bunch award but there wasn't a more deserving player on the field today. If you're France you need to be asking yourself why a team with mbappe, dembele and griezman couldn't provide a performance more deserving. Well on their way to squandering a golden generation